I think the language barrier is an issue for EU as well. Not that this affects miniatures much directly, but it does affect the game systems that use them, which means in certain area's miniatures aren't as available.
Another factor is that because the EU is a recent thing - and because the environment for corporations is better in the US - many of the big companies are located in the US. As a result there is a better ecosystem there with more competition. Here you're either Games Workshop, or an obscure German company T_T
That's just my view though, I'm by no means an expert
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Also for tribal races like orcs and goblins wherein the whole tribe could be required to fight to defend their relatively small population it would seem best to include 50/50.
I agree in principle. I suspect in a regular hack and slash game, players may have a problem slaughtering the tribes women and children (for some reason). Then again, that may be exactly the reason to add more female and child orcs and goblins to the mix!
It's like we're being told that isn't a valid player character option for women. That women are only ever supposed to look this certain (elven) way.
I do not feel that Erik is saying "you might want to play a half-orc female wizard, but if you do, then you are simply WRONG, no miniature for you, you gender-bending miscreant" by not putting such a miniature in a set. Erik isn't saying that, and nobody at Paizo is either. Nor anyone at WizKids, or Wizards of the Coast or Games Workshop or any miniature producer, for example. I just don't see anyone telling players what is or is not a valid PC option.
Looking at myself, I play primarily attractive female elven characters, because that is the type of character I -want- to play. And I think that the majority of both male and female players who roleplay female character prefer this certain (elven) look.
I believe a dwarven barbarian with some hair on her chin, or a green skinned half-orc wizardess with large fangs, or a female paladin with muscles the size of cantaloupes, are all valid character choices, and I've never seen anything to suggest any miniature producer, roleplay company or in fact any roleplayer out there, believes these would be an invalid character choice.
Just because over a large population of gamers, these types of characters are rare choices (and just because -I- don't personally want to play such a character) doesn't mean that the choice is invalid. Just that it is a rare choice. And if a certain type of character is rare, it makes less sense to produce a miniature for them, because fewer people will buy it. If anything, the rarity suggests that your character is more unique, and I think thats often a good thing!
Erik fairly raises the point of filling in the gaps in the ecosystem and I approve of that, and the various other reasons he mentioned (a lot!). I think Paizo in general has done an amazing job in their gender balancing and if anyone doesn't believe me, just look at the first three Iconic Heroes pack and the miniatures with all sorts of armour groups, genders and races in there.
Much more so than D&D Miniatures, Pathfinder battles has given us the miniatures we want, in the rarities we want them. If they don't include a female arcanist half-orc, then the logical conclusion to me is that there is not a lot of demand for that type of miniature, not that Paizo is telling us we should not play such a character.
To be clear, I do believe that missing miniatures (male and female) deserve to be added, and I love having more miniature options available to me. I just feel that reading a lack of certain types of miniatures as a value judgement places a sinister motive on the people who bring us these wonderful miniatures. I don't feel that they deserve that.
Dance of Ruin wrote:
I strongly second this. Customs and duties (and VAT), as well as the uncertainty this brings is a primary reason for me to not order from Paizo directly, but instead use a local supplier for my miniatures.
It would also make it easier to deal with payment, as there's no currency exchange going on.
It would also help a lot to have a place to more easily meet and discuss with gamers within the EU for things such as mini trading, sharing news, etc.
That's awesome. The all male races, of miniatures, was getting really aggravating. Traditionally it seemed like the only representation of women was for the anorexic, blonde, elf type. Like that's all woman should ever be or want to be. To this day I think elves are the only race with an even mix between the sexes. So the more female dwarves, orcs, giants, etc that are put out the happier I am. Maybe someday all of them will have a roughly 50/50 mix. :)
I think having both female and male miniatures of the various races is great, it really helps to more accurately represent what is in your game on the table.
I think it is of key importance to keep the period / setting in mind with the miniature design and distribution though.
Yes, women can and do take up arms in real life as well as in fantasy settings and there should be miniatures to represent them. Even modern, armies from 'enlightened' nations don't have 50% female soldiers, so it'd be unrealistic to have half of the pikemen featuring klockenbooty, for example.
Still, having some female mini's of various races, including monster ones, is a great thing and I think the Pathfinder line has done a great job of this so far! I am looking forward to seeing more of this in the future.
What I'd like to see more of, in regards to female miniatures though, is period appropriate clothes. Women of the period almost always wore long skirts and dresses, yet most female mini's are either cross-dressing or at a high risk of catching a cold. Mind you Pathfinder does have appropriately dressed female characters (and many of those are cherished parts of my collection), but they are almost always rares. That's a pet thing of mine though, so I suppose I'll make due ^_^
The sarcophagus seems awesome! I find it hard to judge it from the render, as metallics always look different in hand than on screen, but frankly I don't even care that much, just the fact that I might be adding a sarcophagus to my scenes is awesome already.
Did I mention I love the Dungeon Dressing mini's?
Current Pathfinder sets, I have had literally zero breakage and I think that is the experience of others as well.
If you look close, you'll see Vic's reply was almost a year ago. So to answer your question, I would say that the new D&D miniatures benefit from the experience WizKids has gained in solving the problems for the Pathfinder line, and now both lines benefit from that experience.
A followup kickstarter for a tent is being ran by the same creator - those who already bought the wagon can get it at a lower price, and those who missed it can still order a wagon with this new kickstarter.
They just started 24 hours ago or so and are already at 67% so its looking good.
I've never had any issue with the male / female ratio of miniatures - you need both male and female miniatures for both PC's and NPC's.
The Iconic packs should fix your needs however, since you not only know what mini's you'll get, but these are both high quality and representative of many iconic classes.
Thanks for the extra information on this!
The threshold is part of the problem for me. If I -know- that it'll get through customs without issue, then I know what I will actually pay for the miniatures, since it will simply be the price of the product plus the shipping cost converted to euro's, and I'd be more likely to get them directly from paizo.com if it were cheaper then ordering locally.
However, customs here tend to be fickle - I've seen people have to pay over 60 euro's in customs fees for a 30 euro order, because the customs officer read "10 items for 30 euro's" as "total 300 euro's" instead of "total of 30 euro's, 3 per item". It also costs 80 euro's just to register a complaint :(
Others may feel more comfortable with this, but I do not like the uncertainty of not knowing what exactly I will be spending.
I may pay a little bit more for them at my local store, but they take the hassle of international shipping and customs out of my hands for me and I think its worth the slightly larger pricetag (they are usually about 10-15% over the paizo price). Might be different for different people and different parts of the EU mind you ^_^
I think these iconics will be very useful as PC miniatures.
Most of the time, miniatures will be bought by a DM, to use as monsters in his scenes. This means miniatures will face limited table time, since you cannot use the same monster every session.
PC miniatures by contrast will be used again and again and again, which means that spending more will be set off by not just higher quality but also more table time. The cost per hour of gameplay for these mini's will thus be lower than most other miniatures.
Since you know exactly what you'll get (they are non-random, I presume) this also means that players can invest in these to have their own mini, rather than having the DM purchase them.
I would strongly suggest combining them in sets which include at least one fighter-ish, one mage-ish, one rogue-ish and one divine-ish character, so that players are more easily able to buy a set together and split the miniatures (and the bill) together. This set already seems to do a very reasonable job of that!
From my own perspective, I -love- that something like an eidolon, familiar or animal companion will be included in each pack - this really makes the whole set-up more complete.
One worry is whether WizKids will deliver on the quality. I've seen some amazing mini's from them, so I trust it, but there has been 'variance' in the quality in the past. Regardless, I am sure they will be up to the challenge.
As for my own purchase, it will depend on how easily (and at what price) they will be available in Europe, since customs and shipping make the actual price when ordering from
Erik Mona wrote:
Thank you for the reply, Erik!
I understand the reasoning behind it, and I have no objection to getting a few in a set every once in a while.
Certain figures like these might be more widely usable when put into such sets, such as ninja's and martial artists (as monks), asian themed dragons and demons (which should work as regular dragons and demons) and maybe a geisha or some such (would double as a noblewoman).
Just some idea's I'm tossing out there.
Damiel looks great! He's a very recognisable iconic, so I hope they do a good job on this complicated mini! Alhazra is a very cool one as well, and it gives us a nice little insight into the production process, so that's neat!
Squely Nord! Having a pig is totally awesome, the fact that its an "iconic" pig is even greater! Only complaint I have is that its an uncommon instead of a common ^_^
I'm also very happy to hear more things like mounts, cart / wagons and commoners coming. I've been advocating for those for a while now, so good to hear its being picked up! Pack mule also sounds awesome.
Big Jay wrote:
Id like some asian themed miniature in futur set, those are laking in the ddm universe expt couple of oni here n there. Jade Regent is the hardest path to proxi...
I do think some asian figures could be advantageous, perhaps as a theme for a set, like the pirate themed one!
Etainia looks scary. I'm still missing a pregnant woman miniature, though this one is not actually what I had in mind for that ^_^ That being said, I think she makes a wonderful villainess, and that pregnancy is great foreshadowing, so she can actually be used multiple times. Love that!
Thelsikar is great, this is a miniature which can serve as an evil or just strange alchemist, but also as a grenadier, which opens up a slew of new options. He fits with the other cultists from the earlier post, which I appreciate a lot as well! Wouldn't have minded if he were uncommon, but this will do nicely regardless ^_^
Lamashtu is certainly a strange looking demoness, with a lot of character. Her distended belly, fire and ice weapons and skull bikini give her a very memorable and unique look. I agree with notes by others that she is a one-use or few-use monster unless you happen to be running something specifically regarding Lamashtu, but for a rare I do not mind that.
Regarding the trade in, I am very glad about how this is being handled - this gives me a lot of confidence for future purchases. The WizKids miniatures I have personally gotten all have acceptable or in some cases good faces, especially on the rares, so I am still confused as to how poor Feiya got so disfigured. I am happy it is being fixed. Yay!
Various monsters like Illithid and Beholder are copyrighted. That being said, it is somewhat odd to have Sahuagin in the Bestiary, but not on the mini...
http://www.pathfinderminis.com/ lists the actual name for certain devils and demons with each mini, though I noticed the Skulls & Shackles has not yet been updated with such information.
All of these mini's look great and usable! So far I'm very impressed with this set.
The Haughty Avanger looks nice, I can see her in different scenario's. You can't make out her hair very well in the image (due to the angle), but I like that she's done something with it beyond "short ponytail".
The Shoanti Barbarian looks amazing in the image - if the actual mini looks half this good, he'll be a great addition. Hammer time ^_^
The Forest Shadow I have to fully agree, will be a popular ranger PC mini. Love the action pose on this one.
I recently picked up a few boosters of Shattered Star and some from the new Reign of Winter set and I pulled out Nazenha Vasilliovana and Sheila Heidmarch. I was very happy with the way these mini's turned out. Sheila's face in particular was done extremely well with very well done eyes and mouth (which makes the Feiya Incident all the more bizarre)
All the miniatures were happy additions, but these two in particular, combined with Queen Ileosa (which I picked up after a tip from Eric) are serving me really well in games because unlike most female miniatures they are actually wearing decent gowns.
Naturally those types of outfits are not very well suited for dungeon crawling, so I completely understand why only a small minority of female miniatures wear them. If you expect to go crawling through a sewer to kill "Excrementals" you obviously put on something more practical.
That being said, the games I run or play in often involve a lot of courtesying, careful banter and dancing, and even those encounters that are not are often in some type of social setting. Having PC/NPC mini's who are dressed as you would expect characters in these situations to be is very helpful so I just wanted to say I'm very happy with these mini's in particular and hope to see more of them in the future.
I'm reasonably certain I am in the minority about excessively obsessing over what my characters / key NPC's are wearing, but I still wanted to express my appreciation.
The Queen Elvanna mini looks really nice and very usable. I'm definitely looking forward to getting that one!
It's also good to know the exact price of the case subscription. It's definitely a lot cheaper!
As I mentioned in another thread, because I'm in the EU and the uncertainty of import costs are an issue, I'll continue to buy from a local supplier, but I suspect they have several case subscriptions, so I hope I might be able to benefit from some of the reduced prices that way ^_^
Regardless, this set looks awesome to me, and the miniatures in it looks like a good distribution to me so definitely getting me some of this.
I'm in the EU. Anything that I import from the U.S., like a subscription, has to go through customs.
I understand taxes must be paid, that's not the issue, but between import fees, value added tax and "fines" that customs seems to randomly impose when they dislike you, I don't know how much I will actually end up paying for my order.
The amount of the order of a case is too large for me to be able to afford the financial insecurity.
At this time, I order from a local game supplier who in turn imports it himself. That means I can pay in Euro's, I know the exact amount I pay and I get my order delivered the next day. Also, if there is a problem, I can have it addressed more quickly.
I suspect that -they- in turn have a subscription, btw, so it may all even out, but for me the international borders barrier is just too great at this time to get a subscription.
> And I believe they have said, they will not start a new KS until the first delivers.
Looked it up, this is true.
The Kraken is scheduled to be delivered for June / July this year. Their Kickstarter was in April 2013, but they apparently had to switch manufacturers after their original one went back on their word and raised prices significantly from their previous quote.
According to their forum and the new Kickstarter will start around June / July as well, and they explicitly stated they would not start it until the current one delivers.
Such is the way Kickstarters work I suppose - sometimes there'll be delays and stuff will take longer than expected. I think its honourable at least to wait with the new Kickstarter until the old one is finished. Plus its smart, since then they'll have the experience under the belt and that extra rank in "Diplomacy" will no doubt help them put out the next one quicker ^_^
On a related note, I also figured out some other colossal mini I'd like to see: Primal Elementals from the (Epic Level Handbook).
I don't imagine these as bigger versions of elementals, but rather as forces of nature so they can literally double as such.
The Air Elemental for example could be a tornado, with lightning within its semi transparant form, the Earth Elemental could be an avalanche of rocks and stones, Fire Elemental could be a raging forest fire inferno with black smoke and molten rock and the Water Elemental could be a gigantic incoming wave with creatures, even small buildings lodged inside of it.
The idea is that they'd be super-imposing in their own right, but that they could also be used as natural disasters that the players have to flee from, or that "affect the tactical situation during a battle"
As I understand it, Dungeon Crawler may be making a Behemoth miniature, which they describe as:
"An 8x8 bipedal lizard of terror and doom, very much akin to a certain monster only slay-able via a wish spell in other games."
However, they as of yet have not delivered on their 2013 Kickstarter (an 8x8 Kraken).
The summoner (http://summoner.nl/) sells some Pathfinder Battles, but not a lot and no singles. I've also been looking but this is the only webshop that sells this in the Netherlands that I've found so far.
EDIT: Also, if there are any others from the Netherlands, it might behoove us to set up a way to keep in touch to promote trades and such.
Erik Mona wrote:
Thank you for the feedback! There are indeed some excellently usable miniatures of this nature already! Queen Ileosa works very well as a queen for any nation.
Coming up with idea's is fun and I'm grateful for the replies and the insights from the people behind the scenes. It's appreciated ^_^
I recently made a post about a builder series of regular townsfolk (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qo7t?Townsfolk-Builder-Series-Set). Since then I came up with some more idea's so I compiled them into a complete set focussed on townsfolk and the likes.
Normally I only buy a few packs from sets, but this one I'd buy a case. Mind you, I know this set won't ever happen, but I can put my idea's out there and dream ^_^
==== Common (15) ====
==== Uncommon (13) ====
==== Rare (10) ====
Young Princess (Small)
==== Large Uncommon (9) ====
==== Large Rare (7) ====
==== Guargantuan Unique (1) ====
==== Visible Huge pack ====
Here's some "they're not bystanders" scene's with townsfolk:
A PC rogue picking pockets in the marketplace for extra profit. Townsfolk not only indicate potential targets, but they might also spot them picking someone else's gold! (Towns-folk used as targets and spotters based on orientation and distance)
A ball where PC's have to spy on one or more individual noblemen for information, without anyone noticing. (Towns-folk used to indicate the situation and how hard it will be to overhear them based on distance)
A thief steals the money box from a charity at the town fair! The PC's give chase through the crowd! Little do they know, some people in the crowd are also members of the thieves guild and may move to cover the escape (Towns-folk used as obstacles / hidden opponents)
The PC's are infiltrating an elven city to get details on their defences before an upcoming war. They can disguise themselves, but elves have sharp eyesight so they best keep their distance (Towns-folk used in puzzle to get past moving individuals without being made)
A crowd of angry citizens demands the local lord surrender his power to a pretender. The PC's, who work in the lords army, are tasked with dispersing the crowd... without killing them (Towns-folk used as enemies)
Besides this, there are various individuals in most campaigns that are not combatants, but still relevant. The younger sister of the Paladin in the party, the handsome bard that the Sorceress fancies, that boxom beauty at the tavern that loves hearing the exaggerated tales of the Fighter, the merchant that keeps hiring the party to protect his stuff, the vain local nobleman who may be a jerk but who also owns everything in the area.
Having a clear location for these individuals in surprise battles is very relevant, as the PC's don't just have a vested interest in protecting them, they may actually be the target of the attack, so losing track of them means the PC's lose no matter how many bad guys they kill.
All in all it depends on the campaign. A campaign set in the monster infested jungles of Farawaystan, based on slashing your way through tribes of orks and goblins to get to the demons that empower their leaders is unlikely to need many townsfolk.
A rogue based campaign founded on theft and stealth, a politics based campaign where strict social rules like proper forms of address are enforced by the DM or a low level campaign based entirely around the PCs home town of Cityville however...
Our group likes hanging around in town, getting involved in city life and politics. I think many low level groups also spend a great deal of time in their local town.
One thing we really lack in our games though is miniatures for the regular run of the mill towns folk. Mini's for tavern brawls, assassins going after the king, that lovely tavern wench being kidnapped in the middle of the marketplace, etc. are sorely lacking.
I would suggest a Builders Series set to fill this lack of regular townsfolk. I think every game can be enhanced by this.
My suggestion would be something along the following lines. I added where I think a repaint might be usable and made miniatures we'd want multiple of common and miniatures where we'd only want a few rare.
Boy (Common, Small)
Girl (Common, Small)
Peasant (Common, Medium)
Beggar (Common, Medium)
Guard-dog (Common, Medium)
City Guard (Common, Medium)
Merchant (Rare, Medium)
Tavern Wench (Rare, Medium)
Noblewoman (Rare, Medium)
Nobleman (Rare, Medium)
Princess (Rare, Small)
Prince (Rare, Small)
Basically this set includes common and noble, children and adults of both genders, as well as guards with dogs and two additional commoners with common functions.
Other mini's we considered for the series are: Blacksmith, Baker, Butcher, Laundress, Seamstress, Sailors, Porters and elderly of both genders, but those were all pretty specific while the ones listed above have more general usability.
What kind of regular townsfolk do others feel they need in their games?
I like the idea of an Elemental Evolutions set a lot, though I also considered an Elemental Builders series.
It could include small and medium elementals of each type plus a spell-caster specifically themed to each element. Smalls could be common with 3 to a display case, mediums uncommon with 2 to a display case and casters rare with 1 to a display case.