Pathfinder Battles Preview: Ch-ch-ch-changes

Friday, April 4, 2014

Before we get to today's Reign of Winter miniature reveals, I want to focus on a couple of important general changes to the Pathfinder Battles line that will begin with this set, both in terms of the number of figures per set and in terms of the subscription benefits offered to ongoing Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription.

Number of Figures Per Set

Starting with Reign of Winter, Pathfinder Battles sets will go to 44 figures plus the Gargantuan case incentive figure. This reduction in number of figures per set is designed to help WizKids get its costs in line, and also comes with the added benefit of providing more common and uncommon figures to folks who buy their miniatures by the case (something a lot of customers have been asking for). The number of figures in a case, brick, or booster does not change, just the composition of the set in terms of total sculpts.

A case should still contain a full set (as always in the case of a collated product we can't guarantee this, but it's certainly the goal). Below is the model rarity breakdown for a case:

56 commons, 32 uncommons, 8 rares, 28 large uncommons, 4 large rares.

Here is the figure breakdown for the Reign of Winter set:

7 common (Small), 6 common (Medium), 11 uncommon (Medium), 8 uncommon (Large), 8 rare (Medium), and 4 rare (Large).

The total number of figures per case and the overall price of the case will not change. The specific figure size breakdowns will differ slightly from set to set, but the model rarity breakdown should be stable from release to release.

Case Subscription Changes

When we started the Pathfinder Battles line, the original plan was to supplement set releases with frequent Encounter Packs, Builder Series mini-sets, and other "one-off" releases. These have proven to be less popular than we'd hoped both with the audience and with our partners at WizKids, so as time has gone on we've produced significantly fewer of these special releases than we'd planned to.

We set up our Ongoing Case Subscriptions—a vital backbone to keeping the Pathfinder Battles line in production since it establishes a baseline of sales for the brand—with these special releases in mind. The current model earns subscribers discount codes to use on these releases, with three different discounts for the case incentive figure, special Encounter Packs or Builder Series releases, and another discount for loose singles sold on paizo.com.

Starting with the Reign of Winter set, the Ongoing Case Subscription benefits will change to:

  • The right to purchase one limited-edition case premium figure at 75% off its normal retail price per case ordered. (Same as existing benefit)
  • 30% off the normal retail price of ALL Pathfinder Battles products on paizo.com, including the cases ordered as part of your subscription, all previously released product, all Encounter Pack, Builder Series, or special releases, and all loose, unpackaged singles.

To recap: Active a ongoing Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription to the Pathfinder Battles line receive a 30% discount on all Pathfinder Battles-branded products on paizo.com except the limited-edition case incentive figures, which can be purchased at 75% off. These discounts bring our pricing in line with other online retailers.

These benefits last only as long as your Pathfinder Battles Ongoing Subscription, and go away if you cancel your subscription. Existing coupon codes provided as part of our ongoing Case Subscription benefits remain active. Even though they are for 20% off instead of the new 30% discount, they can be used even after you've stopped your subscription.

It may take us a little time to update paizo.com to reflect these new changes, but they will be in place by the time Reign of Winter is scheduled to ship to customers in late May.

We think these new subscription benefits are easier to understand and more attractive to Pathfinder Battles fans. Our ongoing Case Subscribers are absolutely vital to the continued success of the Pathfinder Battles line. If you are collecting every set, I strongly encourage you to sign up for an Ongoing Case Subscription today. It really is the most important thing you can do to encourage a long and healthy life for Pathfinder Battles. We certainly appreciate it.

Today's Reign of Winter Previews

With all of that business out of the way, let's take a look at a few of the remaining figures from the Reign of Winter set!

Up first this week is the Zombie Panther, a nasty undead great cat ready to pounce on your player characters! This mangy critter is covered in spots exposing rotting flesh beneath its fur, from a nasty bit of exposed ribcage along its side to a significant element of his face where the skull is completely visible. I'm holding the production figure in hand as I write this, and I'm impressed with the effectiveness of what amounts to a pretty simple figure. At the common rarity, you'll have enough of this gross undead animal to build a neat encounter. It also makes a great familiar for a necromancer!

Here we have the Wolliped, an eight-legged beast of burden from the snow planet Triaxus. Though Wollipeds do not play a prominent role in the Reign of Winter Adventure Path, they do appear on page 90 of Pathfinder Adventure Path #70: The Frozen Stars, which also features Triaxus heavily. I threw the Wolliped in this set as my "Erik's Choice" figure because I thought he looked cool and I'd never seen anything like him in plastic before. As a big fan of planetary romance novels like A Princess of Mars, I'm also a sucker for alien mounts with too many legs. The Wolliped officially has an intelligence of 2, but the figure's face is quite expressive, and he could easily double as some sort of intelligent creature. He's slated at the uncommon rarity, and is a Large creature.

Last up this week is Zavackuul, a reclusive and eccentric aberration who dwells in an icy fissure somewhere during the Reign of Winter Adventure Path (no spoilers!). Zavackuul is a compulsive collector of victims, whom she entombs in ice and displays in her lair. The simple (but effective) paint job on this figure looks great, but the real stand-out here are the six (!) tentacles whipping off her central form, bringing a great sense of dimensionality to the miniature. Zavackuul is a Large, rare figure.

And that's it for this week. Please consider setting up an Ongoing Case Subscription to make sure you don't miss a single Reign of Winter figure!

Until next week,

Erik Mona
Publisher

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Miniatures Pathfinder Battles Reign of Winter
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Disappointing to hear about both the reduction in number of figures, as well as the builder sets not doing well.

I'll have to evaluate case by case going forward to see if the set truly does represent the AP. I feel like so far RoW has missed that mark.

Should we take this announcement as a discontinuation of the builder / evolution sets?

Also - the link the zombie panther is broken it appears.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Cool minis.

Thanks for the update on the Pathfinder Battles line. It's disappointing that the sets will be smaller and no more expansion sets, meaning less new sculpts per set. Hopefully the remaining part of the line will get strong support and continue on for some time so we can see more of the excellent minis you are producing.


Does this have anything to do with Wizkids producing D&D Next miniatures in the future?


I also just realised that Pathfinderminis.com has all the sculpts revealed, then.


Erik, the rarities you mention in the blog post don't add up with what has been revealed so far. In the respective blog posts you mentioned the following large figures would be rare:

Zavackuul
General Malesinder
Red Dragonkin Rider
Polkovnik Lavrenti
Catoblepas
Centaur Archer

which makes six out of four. Could you give us updates on the rarities for those figures? Hope the Centaur Archer gets changed to uncommon.

And the Dragonkin rider (but it's more likely going to be the Catoblepas).

Edit:
With 28 uncommon Large divided up on 8 sculpts looks like there is room to fulfill yourself your wish of being able to slate one or two large figures at common rarity instead ;)


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Well guesst I will be cherry picking from now on. I need variety, not more of the same stuff,but thats just me. Im happy if its whats other want and the mini serie contenue to go stronger...


I can't say I'm all that surprised about the Builder Packs and Evolutions. I keep a pretty close eye on the aftermarket, and I'm starting to see signs of retailers dumping some overstock on some of those (especially the white dragons and the undead line), which suggests that they weren't doing as well as hoped. (As an aside, I always had expected undead minis to be more popular than, in my experience, they turn out to be.) And they aren't going to appeal to players (as opposed to people running games) that much.

As for this week's minis, I like them all, but don't imagine having much actual use for the first two. The last one, though, makes an awesome roper, and I definitely want one!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Curmudgeonly wrote:

Should we take this announcement as a discontinuation of the builder / evolution sets?

Also - the link the zombie panther is broken it appears.

I think we'll still see some Encounter/Evolution Packs, just not as many as we'd thought we'd see back when we devised our subscription options. (At the time, we thought there might be two or three between each large release.) More Builder Series are a bit less likely, though there is one idea kicking around that I think has a decent chance of taking the form of a Builder Series product.

And we'll get that link fixed ASAP.

Digital Products Assistant

Link for the zombie panther is fixed now :)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Cleanthes wrote:
I can't say I'm all that surprised about the Builder Packs and Evolutions. I keep a pretty close eye on the aftermarket, and I'm starting to see signs of retailers dumping some overstock on some of those (especially the white dragons and the undead line), which suggests that they weren't doing as well as hoped.

Our own sales of the White Dragon Evolutions pack have inexplicably accelerated of late.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Curmudgeonly wrote:

Should we take this announcement as a discontinuation of the builder / evolution sets?

Also - the link the zombie panther is broken it appears.

I think we'll still see some Encounter/Evolution Packs, just not as many as we'd thought we'd see back when we devised our subscription options. (At the time, we thought there might be two or three between each large release.) More Builder Series are a bit less likely, though there is one idea kicking around that I think has a decent chance of taking the form of a Builder Series product.

And we'll get that link fixed ASAP.

They said at gama : Past Winter there are fully three sets in development, and Paizo is looking at revisiting the initial product launch with new iconic character packs!

So is the iconic packs is the new builder you talk about Vic?

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

These changes have nothing to do with the D&D sets. My understanding is that those sets will also be 45 figures total, as the costing works out better for WizKids at that overall set size.

I will reconfirm rarities tomorrow when I'm back in the office. I know the Catoblepas is uncommon, and I suspect that the Centaur Archer is also uncommon.

Grand Lodge

I am sad to hear the evolution/encounter packs aren't doing well. I've felt they were really good. Your Red Dragon Evolution was my favorite. I prefer your red dragons over my Wizards of the Coast red dragons. Also, I've really been hoping for a green blue and black one, in that order of preference.

I've introduced one of my brothers to these miniatures and he has been getting them all, like me.

I hope sales pick up for you. I also wish WotC's set does well too, but I doubt I will be collecting theirs.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I love the changes to the subscription. Once my wallet recovers from all the Kickstarters that keep hitting it, I might resubscribe!

Liberty's Edge

The goblin and undead builder sets contained great figures but the individual wrapping was environmentally unfriendly. I felt bad about the pile of junk I had to recycle. I would have preferred a cardboard box with a set 12 figs, which may have driven the cost down. I liked the dragon encounter packs.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Cleanthes wrote:
I can't say I'm all that surprised about the Builder Packs and Evolutions. I keep a pretty close eye on the aftermarket, and I'm starting to see signs of retailers dumping some overstock on some of those (especially the white dragons and the undead line), which suggests that they weren't doing as well as hoped.
Our own sales of the White Dragon Evolutions pack have inexplicably accelerated of late.

I'm glad to hear it! Has the red dragon set met expectations?

Dark Archive

I'd like to say that I'm disappointed with the Battles numbers going down and the Builders sets being (eventually) phased out, but I know I'm still be buying them in the future, so whatever. I'm still loyal to the great Paizo cause.


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As someone with the cash and the addiction to buy these by the case (and I have bought most of the Paizo minis that came out), I can say that I stopped pre-ordering cases for several reasons. These are just my feelings, maybe they will help illuminate a segment of the market.

Firstly - The figures vary wildly in quality of sculpt, paint, and utility . I have a sweet-tooth for good sculpts, and will buy figures that have good utility, but I've received too many pieces that fail two out of three of these conditions. In particular the last few sets had many pieces where either the paint selections were muddy and dark, or the paint jobs were poor (my Arueshalae is painted so poorly it is embarrassing).

Secondly - A lot of the large and rare pieces leave me flat. Paizo's dragons in particular lack zest and personality (which is why I skipped both the White and Red evolution sets-- this is true in the 2D art as well!) Todd Lockwood knocked it out of the park, and spoiled me on generic looking dragons. A lot of the large pieces are ugly or have little utility. I have a whole box of large sculpts that will never be used for this reason (I'm thinking of you Hill Giants). Large pieces need to loom over medium pieces and look threatening. Too many of the large pieces fail at this. I dislike receiving fewer medium and small pieces in exchange for these large ones. Stumpy lizard looking dragons and drunken looking giants are not worth the huge sum a case costs. More pieces should be like the Stone Giants -- dynamic, unique, and threatening.

Thirdly - When the product line was announced it was my impression that more fixed content packs would be released, instead of a predominance of random pieces. I understand this is how you fund high quality rares, but I end up buying those as singles in the aftermarket anyhow. Instead we've gotten a lot of medium and small pieces as random singles. That is a neat store gimmick but leaves me flat as far as buying in quantity.

Finally, there are too many releases! I would order a case a year without hesitation, but with two-major releases every year I feel like I cannot keep up and so I don't. I recognize that this doesn't sync with the AP products, and that these miniatures are luxury items but gosh.

Grand Lodge

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Chthonian Sun wrote:

...

Secondly - A lot of the large and rare pieces leave me flat. Paizo's dragons in particular lack zest and personality (which is why I skipped both the White and Red evolution sets-- this is true in the 2D art as well!) Todd Lockwood knocked it out of the park, and spoiled me on generic looking dragons.
...

Personally, I feel Paizo's dragons have more flair. Reds remind me of barbed devils. Green remind me of a stalking rhino lizard. I like the sleek blues. Each to their own I guess.

Chthonian Sun wrote:

...

Finally, there are too many releases!
...

I was worried when they had a very short time scheduled between Reign of Winter and Wrath of the Righteous. I was glad when they changed the schedule. Three to Four a year is just right for me. Again, everyone has different preferences.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I agree with a few points cthonian sun made. I'd also add that the price for a subscription is not worth it when places like nobleknight games and miniature market were selling cases cheaper than you guys. It made no sense you should of changed the price a while ago. Now you change it because you realized that customer loyalty will only get you so far.

The miniatures seemed rushed and speeding up the number of releases doesnt help those gamers on a fixed gaming budget. All of these recent miniature kickstarters could also be eating into you revenue calculations. This is only going to get worse when the d&d minis come out.

Wizkids doesnt care who buys what since they make out no matter what.

I hope things go well for the product.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Definitely some interesting news. Here are my thoughts...

--I'm disappointed to hear there will be ten fewer types of miniatures in each Pathfinder Battles Adventure Path set. I think it puts much more pressure on Erik and the rest of the company to make all 44 miniatures per set really appeal to a broader set of people.

--In a set of 54, there was that cushion of 3-5 miniatures that didn't need to blow me away. Provided they were fantasy-like in nature, I was always able to find a good use for at least one of each of them.

--Subtracting a potential ten miniatures from a set automatically eliminates such a cushion. For example, if there are four miniatures that hold absolutely zero appeal for me in a set of 44, that brings the number of desired miniatures down to 40. I don't know what the average cost of a miniature in a set is, but let us say it's $6.00. That would mean if I wanted to purchase one each of the forty I liked, I'm looking at $240.00. If I wanted to double or triple up on a handful of miniatures, I could still do so at a cheaper cost than a case would cost me.

--Considering there will likely be an additional 44 miniatures to choose from of varying quality (the upcoming D&D line), the pressure is increased even further.

--Like most members on this board--and other fellow fans loyal to Pathfinder--I'll definitely give the benefit of the doubt to all forthcoming Pathfinder lines. But because my ultimate goal as a consumer is to put the best looking pieces on my table for the enjoyment of my gaming groups, I won't hesitate to purchase from the D&D line when I deem it necessary.

--My big hope going forward is that each Pathfinder Battles line skews heavily in favor of more creatures than "regular" humanoids. A heavy mix of creatures that are commonly encountered enemies, exciting new creatures exclusive to the Pathfinder line and even some nontraditional humanoids, like the Ratfolk or Tengus, make plenty of sense to me.

--If you are forced to scale back the extra releases, I hope you at least continue to stick with a pack of Huge miniatures per big Battles release. I really like the two Huge miniatures from the Reign of Winter set, and feel like that concept has great potential.

--I hope that you stick with the Dragon Evolutions, even if they come less frequently. I've stated in the past that I'd like to see Paizo get through the chromatic dragons and then start with a different set from a different bestiary. While the completionist in me still wants to see the finale of the blue & green dragons, I think it might make sense to introduce a dragon from a different group first. Considering that the D&D Dragon Wing line looks to have both chromatic and metallic dragons in the first set, it might make sense to put out a dragon that the PPM community hasn't seen before. Perhaps the Forest Dragon (Imperial) from the Bestiary 3 or the Lunar Dragon (Outer) from the Bestiary 4 would have appeal.


I loved the Goblin set and both Dragon evolutions. The Red Dragons were my favorite, but the white were cool too. I hope you don't stop the evolution sets. I would love a Blue, Black and Green set. I would even love the Metalics as evolutions, even though I would get less utility out of them as antagonists...

I like the pathfinder minis as a whole... but... Sometimes the releases just don't mesh with my game.... I don't normally do demons, so a set that is mostly demons or devils is lost on me... Also undead... I have plenty of undead, so did not need more...

The Goblin set was perfect... If there were sets like that for some other "common" monster races I would be all about them... Orcs, Gnolls, Bugbears, Barbarian raiders, elven war party, Bad humans (knight, foot soldier, archer, wizard, leader), etc...


Very, very sad to see confirmation that the builder series isn't doing well -- those were by far my favorite releases.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Two things I want to make sure to clarify.

1) The Builder Series seems to be on hold for the time being, but please don't read this as suggesting there will be no more Evolutions or other special releases. There are just going to be fewer of this sort of thing than we expected at the beginning. This has been true since the beginning, actually. Read this more as a reaction to how things have been going than a notification of an upcoming change.

2) This set and the next one are 45 figures. The one after that will be quite interesting, and will likely have more sculpts. But it's more complicated than that (in a good way). I realize that is not a lot of information, but bear with me for a couple of sets. I am hatching plans that you will adore.

I also want to say that I understand that a reduced number of sculpts makes each individual sculpt that much more important. I will do everything within my power to make anyone's decision to not support the line as difficult as humanly possible.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

The problem with the Builder Series is that not enough people bought them.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Well I personally bought many of them. I can see the change form wizkids side and will judge it when I get my RoW case - more commons and uncommons per case is good in my eyes, although I'm not certain I'll need that many goats :)

I just hope the huge encounter pack has done well sincethats the one I really want to see more of.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

After reading some of these other comments, here is my thought on the subscription.

I definitely would like to sign up for it. I buy a minimum of one case per release, so in that regard it makes total sense.

I must point out that the quality of the sculpts and their paint jobs, while all over the map depending on the line in question, usually isn't an issue for me. Though I've been playing the tabletop rpgs for about twenty years now, I just started using miniatures in my campaigns within the last two years. I'm the type of person who would prefer having a sculpt of a creature as opposed to not having that sculpt at all. I won't hesitate to use a creature in my campaign if it doesn't have a miniature to represent it, but it is certainly more exciting for my players when there is representation. I do have my favorite sculpts in every set, as I'm sure we all do, but as long a sculpt is not embarrassingly bad, I'm likely okay with it.

The issue I find more troubling is the condition of my miniatures when they arrive. There is typically two or three broken miniatures per case. Often times I can find people online complaining about the same miniatures. In most cases, the miniature has completely broken off the base. While a little bit of glue is all it needs, it's still disconcerting that this is an issue that has affected every case I've purchased. But still, my interest in case-buying has yet to wane.

The biggest reason why I have not yet signed up for the ongoing case subscription is cost. It appears that before the pricing change, a subscription would have cost me $400.00, plus another $15.00-$20.00 for shipping.

Two of the best prices I have found online are CoolStuffInc. and PopularCollections. The former is $309.99 per case (w/o incentive piece) and the latter is $304.99 per case (w/o incentive piece). The Coolstuffinc. price is the better deal, because any order over $100.00 qualifies for free shipping. The latter is the better deal if I'm buying a case with the incentive piece, because the cost is usually $345.00. PopularCollections used to charge a S&H fee, so the case + incentive was $360.00.

Recently, however, the PopularCollections site has been doing an Early Bird special with pricing at about $315.00 w/incentive and free shipping. The free shipping comes as a refund on the credit card once the item ships, but it's still a good deal.

Throwing out the Early Bird special price, (usually only active for a week or two), the general cost of a case + incentive piece, including any shipping and handling charges, costs $360.00.

So my question is, how does this new subscription cost compare to the $360.00 price?

You said the cost of the case itself is still the same as it was before. Does this mean the cost before the subscription is $511.68 or $399.99? This actually makes a really big difference.

Using the $511.68 original price, I believe the subscription cost would be $358.18 without the incentive. Adding in the incentive piece at 75% off--about $10.00--the cost would be $368.18. That is only about $8.00 more than the cost on popularcollections. Except that this price still doesn't add in shipping and handling from the Paizo site, which costs me an additional $15-$20.00.

So adding it all up, the total cost under the new subscription price is still going to cost me $23-$28.00 more than the price at another site.

I'm all about buying directly from the Paizo website, especially if it helps the long-term health of the Battles line more than buying it from a third party. But I also believe in value, and I'm not sure that I can justify spending an additional $23-$28 per case release.

On the other hand, if you're telling me that the new subscription pricing is 30% off a $399.99 price, I'll sign up yesterday. That would come out to $279.99. Adding on the $10.00 for the incentive and $15-$20 for shipping and handling, it comes out to $304.99-$309.99 for everything.

If the original price is still $511.68. before the 30% off, but you can offer free shipping and handling on the case subscription, then you'll have my ongoing subscription for the Pathfinder Battles case tomorrow.

If you instead offer free shipping on all Paizo brand orders of $100.00 or more, you'll have my entire future business for all things Pathfinder from now until dragons destroy planet earth.


Erik Mona wrote:
The problem with the Builder Series is that not enough people bought them.

Has WizKids considered, or made any attempt to measure, whether the Builder Series aided in new customer acquisition? The assumption that the impulse, $3 item builder mini doesn't ultimately lead to higher sales of ~$400 cases may be unfounded. In other words, killing the Builder Series may kill a stream of new customers.

I have no data to support this idea, of course...but I certainly hope the people who do have the data have considered the possibility.


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Erik Mona wrote:


I also want to say that I understand that a reduced number of sculpts makes each individual sculpt that much more important. I will do everything within my power to make anyone's decision to not support the line as difficult as humanly possible.

So i'll reiterate the importance for me that the set matches the AP it's representing.

When the set for Reign of Winter includes a creature like the Wolliped, it makes me question the set and wonder where the disconnect is.

This set could have had Frost Giants, sprites, mephites, atomies, moss trolls, gremlin, a hydra, a dracolisk, or bayoks just as some examples. But instead you propose a fox, a wolliped, 3 different birds, and a goat. You provide a sculpt for Baba Yaga, which is cool...

AP plot spoilers:
but she never actually makes an appearance!

What am I to do with 6-7 goats/foxes/falcons/owls or 4 Wollipeds? :)

And like someone else said, it's all forgivable when there's a large variety, but less so now :)

Anyway, that's me. I'll bite the bullet on this set as I'm running this campaign starting tomorrow. I'll evaluate the next sets as you reveal them.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

It's a bummer that the Builder series hasn't done too well. I bought five cases of the Goblins and five cases of the Undead. I was just beginning to really build up my collection when the goblins came out, and I didn't have too many undead, either.

I like the concept of the line, but I can see how they might not flourish. There are plenty of commonly faced undead miniatures in the old DDM lines, so anyone collecting them during that time or buying an ebay collection probably has plenty.

I'm not sure why the Goblins line wouldn't sell well; I've only recently become a fan of Goblins in tabletop rpg gaming, but they're actually pretty cool.


So in theory (until Erik confirms the large rares) the rares in this set are:

Mediums:
1. Grigori Rasputin
2. Queen Elvanna
3. Zorka? (or Crone Queen)
4. Commander Pharamol
5. Cesser of Ning
6. Dragon Legion Dragonrider
7. Nazenha
8. Baba Yaga

Larges:
1. Zavackuul
2. General Malesinder
3. Red Dragonkin Rider
4. Polkovnik


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Curmudgeonly wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:


I also want to say that I understand that a reduced number of sculpts makes each individual sculpt that much more important. I will do everything within my power to make anyone's decision to not support the line as difficult as humanly possible.

So i'll reiterate the importance for me that the set matches the AP it's representing.

When the set for Reign of Winter includes a creature like the Wolliped, it makes me question the set and wonder where the disconnect is.

This set could have had Frost Giants, sprites, mephites, atomies, moss trolls, gremlin, a hydra, a dracolisk, or bayoks just as some examples. But instead you propose a fox, a wolliped, 3 different birds, and a goat. You provide a sculpt for Baba Yaga, which is cool... ** spoiler omitted **

What am I to do with 6-7 goats/foxes/falcons/owls or 4 Wollipeds? :)

And like someone else said, it's all forgivable when there's a large variety, but less so now :)

Anyway, that's me. I'll bite the bullet on this set as I'm running this campaign starting tomorrow. I'll evaluate the next sets as you reveal them.

I agree that monsters are almost always preferred. That said, I'm glad we got as many animals as we did. Despite my love for monstrous creatures, in just about every campaign I run, animals are far more prevalent. While Falcons and Owls aren't always typical enemies, they often serve as scouts for hunting parties my group might come up against. The raven is a common familiar for my wizards and witches, what with their ability to speak. Still, I get why they wouldn't be for everyone.

I don't mind when they stray a bit from the Adventure Path. Because this campaign was so vast and weird as far as the spectrum is concerned, it would have been okay either way as far as sticking with adventure path specific encounters. But in most cases, I prefer monstrous creatures to, say, an overabundance of campaign-related humanoids.

Wollipeds are in the bestiary of one of the Reign of Winter books, so I'm guessing it shows up as a potential random encounter. Because it's a cool looking creature that I can pretty much pin any stats or backstory to, it matters little to me if we see him in a direct encounter or not. Plus, he seems like a Pathfinder-exclusive creature, and I like to see some of those in every set.

I do admit I was a bit disappointed to see we wouldn't be getting another sculpt of the Frost Giant. I know I'm in the minority, but the Heroes & Monsters version does not impress me. For such a ferocious giant, he's way too skinny and frail looking.

I'm a big troll fan, so a moss troll would have been great. But we did get a nice male and female ice troll, and I'd rather have the both of those over a moss troll.

I was a bit surprised at the lack of a dracolisk, though not extremely disappointed. Although I think the artwork is beautiful and it would make a great miniature, it's something I can wait for.

I wonder if other people feel as you do, and wish the Reign of Winter Battles set featured more Adventure Path-specific miniatures.

Grand Lodge

Although it looks better for most people like this I like the variety. The loss of 10 mini's is really sad. I'll be honest I've been thinking it's getting to expensive as is. This may be my excuse to start using pawns more.

It's better for me to buy a couple bricks at my local FNGS than a case at this point and blend them. I can't afford to keep up.


If these changes strengthen the PF Battles line than it's all good.

I'm glad that the sets haven't rigidly tied to the APs to date (at least since Skull and Shackles) since otherwise we still wouldn't have: the Seaweed Siren, the Wolliped, at least a couple of the Demons, and that stunning Gargantuan White Dragon case incentive among others.

I too am a little disappointed that there wasn't a frost giant or two (Pigraven, you are not alone on the H & M one) and the moss troll, but with the two Ice Trolls, I'm not mad at it.

This set however, was probably not the ideal one to implement the changes to the line in since the AP is all over the map cosmically and as a result there are at least 10 pieces in it that will not have as wide an appeal (the 4 Moderns, 5 Triaxians, and the Wolliped - I like 'em but I know not everyone does.)

I know at some point we'll get more fey and (hopefully) a couple of alternate sculpt frost giants and that's cool.

I just hope that these changes strengthen the line as a whole.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I'm quite disappointed in the drop in number of figures per release. Sad to see what I consider a step back.

Sczarni

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
Erik Mona wrote:
The problem with the Builder Series is that not enough people bought them.

Which seems hilarious to me - in CT that's all that we can sell. The store I work for has gone through 10 goblin builder set boxes and 8 undead, but still hasn't sold through a brick of and of the regular sets unopened (If I open them we can sell 95% of the singles in two weeks though)

If anything this should make buying by the case more friendly - you will have more doubles to sell off to FLGS to recoup some of your money back. If you make a deal with them when you preorder (I'll give you anything I get more than X of back) they may even give you more of a discount on the case

Sczarni

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
Curmudgeonly wrote:


So i'll reiterate the importance for me that the set matches the AP it's representing.

When the set for Reign of Winter includes a creature like the Wolliped, it makes me question the set and wonder where the disconnect is.

This set could have had Frost Giants, sprites, mephites, atomies, moss trolls, gremlin, a hydra, a dracolisk, or bayoks just as some examples. But instead you propose a fox, a wolliped, 3 different birds, and a goat. You provide a sculpt for Baba Yaga, which is cool... ** spoiler omitted **

What am I to do with 6-7 goats/foxes/falcons/owls or 4 Wollipeds? :)

And like someone else said, it's all forgivable when there's a large variety, but less so now :)

Remember when you are evaluating this, the random encounter tables and the fact that the scupting was done before they finished the AP. An encounter with crows could have been in book 1 when the sculpts were started, but got axed in development. If you want the minis set to come out within 18 months of the adventure path ending, you need to accept that there will be a disconnect caused by the development process.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

The most immediate disappointment in my mind is that the current set will be 45 sculpts. I did do an early bird pre-order from another site with the thought that this would be 55 sculpts. I don't know if that's how many was advertised for this RoW, but I guess I had grown accustomed to the past few sets that had 55 and expected it. The announcement that it was 45 after I placed my order means I will get less than I had hoped for numbers wise.

Once I receive the case, see the quality of the minis, and decide how many of each makes sense to keep, it'll help determine whether ordering cases is the way to go in the future or whether the secondary market for singles makes more cents.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I just looked at some of the advertisements on the websites and noticed it had advertised as a 55 piece set.

"This 55-figure set for the Pathfinder Battles miniatures line features friends and foes from the Pathfinder Adventure Path, Reign of Winter, and is offered in standard booster bricks containing one Large figure and three Medium or Small figures"

Oh well. Must have been a recent change at Wizkids or Paizo to reduce that number. I wonder what the other 10 sculpts would have been?

Liberty's Edge

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It's really disappointing, the variety is probably the biggest draw for me. Though I can say I'm pretty happy about getting lots of animals. So much utility.


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I am also going to greatly miss the 10 extra figures per set. Variety is also the primary feature I am seeking.

My preference for minis is pc/npc minis. I already find that the average amount of "usable" pc/npc minis per set to be quite low and now this will likely drop that ratio even more. I really like the concept of Adventure Path themed sets, however I have been ending up with a lot of miniatures that I'm never going to use. I have still been able to justify buying these sets though, as there have been enough "generic" pc and monster miniatures which I likely will use. I am concerned that this change may impact the amount of these "generic" types in the themed sets.

The original format of these sets started with 65 minis and then dropped to 55, and now down to 45. While I am concerned about this change, I guess if it helps to ensure the longevity of the line then great, but I fear affecting the variety may also impact the longevity of the line.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Could we get some confirmation on what the final price will be for case subscribers through paizo, ideally including shipping?)

I'd gone to popular collections as paizo's prices just weren't competitive, but they take longer and I'd much prefer to go through paizo as I like you guys more.

It's hard to pass up the 314ish price I've been getting with case incentive there, with free shipping though.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

with microprocessing these days, is it really unfeasable to guarantee "one of each" in a case?


Cpt_kirstov wrote:
Curmudgeonly wrote:


So i'll reiterate the importance for me that the set matches the AP it's representing.

When the set for Reign of Winter includes a creature like the Wolliped, it makes me question the set and wonder where the disconnect is.

This set could have had Frost Giants, sprites, mephites, atomies, moss trolls, gremlin, a hydra, a dracolisk, or bayoks just as some examples. But instead you propose a fox, a wolliped, 3 different birds, and a goat. You provide a sculpt for Baba Yaga, which is cool... ** spoiler omitted **

What am I to do with 6-7 goats/foxes/falcons/owls or 4 Wollipeds? :)

And like someone else said, it's all forgivable when there's a large variety, but less so now :)

Remember when you are evaluating this, the random encounter tables and the fact that the scupting was done before they finished the AP. An encounter with crows could have been in book 1 when the sculpts were started, but got axed in development. If you want the minis set to come out within 18 months of the adventure path ending, you need to accept that there will be a disconnect caused by the development process.

Sure, but since the time this AP came out, they've released the Skulls and Shackles Set, Legends of Golarion and Wrath of the Righteous... in this particular case, I don't think that argument holds water.


Young Boromir wrote:

I just looked at some of the advertisements on the websites and noticed it had advertised as a 55 piece set.

"This 55-figure set for the Pathfinder Battles miniatures line features friends and foes from the Pathfinder Adventure Path, Reign of Winter, and is offered in standard booster bricks containing one Large figure and three Medium or Small figures"

Oh well. Must have been a recent change at Wizkids or Paizo to reduce that number. I wonder what the other 10 sculpts would have been?

I wonder... if they were actually planned as far in advance as people claim, what 10 figures were cut...


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I'm in the EU. Anything that I import from the U.S., like a subscription, has to go through customs.

I understand taxes must be paid, that's not the issue, but between import fees, value added tax and "fines" that customs seems to randomly impose when they dislike you, I don't know how much I will actually end up paying for my order.

The amount of the order of a case is too large for me to be able to afford the financial insecurity.

At this time, I order from a local game supplier who in turn imports it himself. That means I can pay in Euro's, I know the exact amount I pay and I get my order delivered the next day. Also, if there is a problem, I can have it addressed more quickly.

I suspect that -they- in turn have a subscription, btw, so it may all even out, but for me the international borders barrier is just too great at this time to get a subscription.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Card Game, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
DropBearHunter wrote:
with microprocessing these days, is it really unfeasable to guarantee "one of each" in a case?

Since there are humans involved in putting things into the cases, Wizkids/Paizo have been unwilling to state as fact that you are certain to get one of each mini. My understanding is that for every main set other than Rise of the Runelords, the plan was/is for a case to get at least one of each, but the setup isn't strong enough to give a cast iron guarantee that would open the companies up to complaints/potential legal trouble.


Cpt_kirstov wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:
The problem with the Builder Series is that not enough people bought them.

Which seems hilarious to me - in CT that's all that we can sell. The store I work for has gone through 10 goblin builder set boxes and 8 undead, but still hasn't sold through a brick of and of the regular sets unopened (If I open them we can sell 95% of the singles in two weeks though)

If anything this should make buying by the case more friendly - you will have more doubles to sell off to FLGS to recoup some of your money back. If you make a deal with them when you preorder (I'll give you anything I get more than X of back) they may even give you more of a discount on the case

I agree. I've bought tons of the goblins and undead and was hoping for more along those lines: hobgoblins or gnolls or orcs or random adventurers or whatever other theme came out. While the AP sets are interesting, I get much more use out of the Builders and some of the commons from the big sets rather than Random Guy from the adventure path that may never be used again.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think that the main issue with the builder series is that they're sold individually.

The marketing of this product is off. This isnt a paizo issue, its an issue with wizkids other singles offerings. They just are not the money makers that a case is. Which is the equivalent of about 8 or 9 builder boxes.

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