Charisma to Initiative could be a good idea, got to try it. And yes, maybe give some feats for Feint and the like at certain capstone of Social Skills, that could be a power up to Charisma too.
For the Dex and the Finesse Training, we play with Unchained Rogue which is a very decent class, and when they have to choose a Finesse training, they either pick one (because they want to TWF, or Elven Blade or whatever, because our houserule only work on one handed fight) or they got a bonus feat.
Breath of Life is accepted, because the timing of the spell seems right. And Divine casters with true rez get to add one spell of their choosing from same level from another list that make sense for the character depending on RP or God that take the rez spot in the spell list.
Of course with our death rules, the DM don't spamm Death Effect and Coup de Grace all day. But when you do, the tension at the table goes up dramaticaly.
Oh and I forgot but we play with Unchained Class except Monk where you can choose, and we use the UBarbarian Rage for Rage type mecanics like Skald and Bloodrager. A bit weaker but more clean and easy to use.
- Two archetypes in total yup. It tends to be enough in general. Either you got two on your only class, or one for each class. We almost never had anyone with three class where the third was not a PrC.
To answer to you Scavion, yes combat is more mobile, but nothing too strong, because moving around is still a gamble in PF, unless you do it smartly or use some sort of build or ressource to do it. But players tend to take a bit more risk mouving around.
The death part was a way to make people scared of dying. And add that extra RP that tend to be specific to the situation. But reroll is also another option, we try to have NpC running aroudn ready to step in. But, funny things, it is always the rule that we disagree the most on, and it is frequently discussed. It is still here, for now.
We experimented with Charisma (add it to will or Perception, things like that) but it was never satisfying. Then we read the Pathfinder something Prc and the racial feat of Halflings, and we liked the idea of the always ready. So, as cunsummables are stronger, you got your shiny one use item each time. We had some clutch move with it. But nothing too strong. I agree that it is not perfect and a bit silly, and I would gladly take any suggestions to buff CHarisma without transforming a CHA character into something broken.
Martial Prof honestly make a difference at level 1-3. If you are Martial you d'ont care, if you are hybrid you don't have to do a shenaningan to take the martial weapon you want (looking at you Cleric and Inquisitor), and if you got Wizard you got easier access to funky build like Eldritch Knight. And sometimes you got you full caster that takes out a sword and got one lucky swing or a coup de grace. Nothing game breaking. Crank Crossbow is a favorite for the free exotic martial.
Consolidated Skills are awesome. Require a bit of tweak with Uchained Rogue or Investigator but nothing too hard. But we like our othe game with a little skill list, so it was more porting it to PF.
UMD and Consummables and Buff duration are what change the most the game. But for us it is in a fun way. Sometimes we got a Healer, sometimes not. But we tend to have someone with a class that got the mandatory Restore and Cure. We increase the cost of creation for Crafting Feats like Scrolls. This way avoid bloat cunsummables, pile on all the buff, but also make a simple scroll a valuable loot, because the scaling and the fact that everybody can use it will make it usefull at one point, no matter what. So people don't pile on the loot, but use it frequently and you got a good rotation. We had in Rise a Figther with the Magic Item Feat line from I don't remember where, was a very fun build. He was the Profane Magic Guy, with half the treasure of the group on him but nothing martial except a good weapon.
I will add Deadly Agility I think, did not know it. We don't use 3pp. One day we are planning to try Spheres, but it seems to be the kind of thing that become the only thing once it is aallowd in play, no?
No don't worry. I made the list avaible here so that people can use it, comment it, criticize it and the like. We wanted to avoid powergaming. We optimize our characters and NPCs, don't get me wrong, but it can (and had been sometimes) too much.
So we decided on this arbitrary number that felt like you had enough room to enjoy the system and our mastery of it, but that it would naturally avoid some of the excess of the system.
it is still enough to go full powerhouse, but it also act as a reminder to not break the game so much that we break the fun.
Maybe the rythm of play is alos a consideration to have. We play 5 hours each two weeks, so we can make an AP in one year, very often in 9 months. And we play with Roll 20, that got a lot of automatized s$#% to help the way you play and gain time. That plus houserules, good system mastery, and yada yada are factors to keep in mind. Plus same group since 15 years now.
I would agree that starting PF1 as of today, when what you know of RPG is Critical Role and 5e, would be like being slapped in the face. I understand that it is outdated from the potentiel new players. I sometimes forget, in our nerdy discussion, that they got to sell something. My bad.
And for the sake of honesty, our table add a s!#$load of houserules in the years of PF1. I made a list in the PF1 forum, in resonnance with our conversation here, that I will link below. We turned it into our game. Maybe Deriven is right, we just need to up PF2 Casters and tweak a few things and just get out of our confort zone.
Here is the link of our Pathfinder 1.5 as we called it (yeah I know, a bit trolly, sorry, it was an inside joke, it is not to add more salt to the discussion). if you are interested for whatever reasons, feel free to check it.
There is some very good criticism in here. To answer a few:
- Cyouni, yes of course Martials were rather decent at hitting things, but what I meant by that 50%, is the fact that the chance of failing the thing you're supposed to be goot at were much higher than in PF1 (or many other game to be fair). Even more so at low level (it gets better around 7-8). We felt we underperformed way much more in our "main thing" that in many other game. Even we taking hard and tough game like Warhammer or Shadow of the Demon Lord. Stacking debuff to be able to reliabily hit a +1 Level mid session boss felt bad. What is worse was the fact that he was hitting us (and crit...) again and again. Yes we had a bad tactic at first, playing like in 5e or PF1, but as we learnt, it was still, untill higher level (like 10+) very noticeable.
- Blasting is decent. But it is not as decent as before when you built for it, and utility and supports has been nerfed so hard. The worst is controll. Our caster like to play heavy controllers, so the Incapacitation Trait and other things like that (tigth math) make boss almost never failed a save. Which is fine, it is a boss, ok. But when you suceeded to Petrify a Dragon or Mind Controll A Balord in 5e or PF1, the feeling of "this is my moment" of the caster is just gone. No smart Charm Personn, no "I transform our Barbarian in a murder machine".
- Arakasius, maybe we are blind and consider our experience THE experience, if that's the case I apologize. We never found the martial caster thing an issue because we always considered that martial carried the first 8 level for the caster to be able to carry the last 8. And everytime it is still our high attack bonus full buffed martial that tend to break the BBEG in a full round attack, more rarely the caster with a one shot from a spell (it happens of course, but more rarely). So our martial players don't care about their lack of option, they want to break the DPR. And our caster players like to outsmart whatever the issue is. So we always had our balance in the game. And in PF2, the breaking of the DPR is way less impressive, and the outsmart with magic is tedious at best. So we are lost.
That being said I really think that the Op should try PF2. Because it is the game for so many people, and it would be a shame to not try.
AND I also think that personnal attack on the way people enjoy a game or DM got nothing to do here or anywhere whatsoever unless someone ask for help. Some of us here should calm down a bit :)
I thought we could share here our own houserules, coming from more than 4 completed AP with a DM/Players turn over, with around 3-4 PC with 25 Points Buy, and many hombrew and little one shots.
First of all, the first Houserule: if anything is broken or bad, we nerf or up it. If anything in the houserule change a capacity of a class/feat and the like, we change it too to adapt with our houserule in mind. All houserules are for PCs and NPCs/Monsters.
Character Creation and Progression:
- 25 Point Buy, all Archyves of Nethys allowed.
- No more than three classes (counting dips and Prestige Classes) and 2 Archetypes in total allowed.
- Consolidated Skills from Pathfinder Unchained.
- Martial Prof for everyone, one Exotic Prof for Martials.
- One bonus feat for everyone (in addition to Human for example, or the weapon rule above).
Combat:
- Finesse is a Weapon property. Not a feat. You can add DEX to hit & dammage with a Finesse weapon if you got only one finesseable weapon and nothing in the other hand. You still need Slashing Grace for a Bastard Sword, and Double Finesse for TWF or Agile, and the like for other fighting style.
- Power Attack, Deadly Aim, and Combat Expertise are not feats, but attack options avaible for everyone. You choose to use them at the start of the round.
- Maneuvers don't provock attacks of opportunity. All the other standards rules are still working as in the book. The first feat for each maneuver is not mandatory to access the feat tree.
- You can take your Simple action whenever you want inside your movement action. You can start the movement, hit or cast in the middle, and finish it. (You still follow all the other rules, like Acrobatics or Attack of opportunity)
- You take not penalty other than cover for shooting in a melee, so Precise Shot is useless.
- When you do a touch attack for whatever reason, you can chose to hit the normal AC and do a punch in the same time. Cleric with Touch Powers and a Spiked Gauntlet are a thing, and a fun one. If you miss, you miss both the punch and the touch ability.
Abilities:
- Strength 16-18-20 remove the movement and skill penalty of armors (light, medium, heavy) and shields. Not the Dex bonus though.
- A character with a Charisma of 16+ start the game session with a free scroll or potion in accordance of his chossing in accordance with his level. Because he is either "always ready" or "well connected", and because Charisma is a dump stat.
Magic Items and loots:
- Automatic Bonus Progression from Pathfinder Unchained.
- Consumables scales on the DC and abilities of the user, like a Staff. They tend to cost a LOOOT more (like 3-4 times the base price), are rarer and way more powerfull. You will rarely see a full wand with 50 charges, but it will make very memorable use of a Fireball scroll for example. And a 12 Charges Cure light Wounds is an awesome loot for low level party.
- No UMD require to use an item. Use your best mental stat. Yup, the Fighter can suddenly put off a scroll and Summon a Dire Lion, big effect.
- We go wild in the loot department, from body part of monster as a one time ingredient for a spell that give +1 DC or something, or a story feat, or a possessed item than each session you got to save to avoid mental domination, and the list goes on. Magic item tends to be more rare but more impactfull, but loot will be plenty, and always of use. If you like an item, you can disenchant it with Crafting Feats, and put some of it inside another one, and we tend to scale the DC of the big items of an AP on level progression. Of course you got to loot the strong item from the baddie first, so he will be more dangerous. I would say the frequency of loot is midway between a regular AP and a DnD 5 adventure.
Buff & Magic:
- Buff (and only buff, no hostile effect) duration is called "scenes". A scene is a narrative moment that make sense, like a room with one fight, or a chase in an alley, or a conversation in a social gala. So a scene can be 2 min in story time if you kill the monster quietly in the room, or 20 minutes because they came in wave after wave. The DM always call: The scene is over.
- 1 hour/ level is the whole day, 10 min/level is three scenes, 1 min/level is two scenes, less is 1 scene. Why? To avoid the "rush while buff are active, roleplay or caution later", to avoid the "my buff at low level suck and are not worth it" and the "late game I go all buff all day".
- No more than two pets, summons or the like for one player or one NPC. To reduce time of turn.
- Dispel Magic is a Swift Action that target an effect of your choice of the lowest level on the target (or in the area). Dispel Greater is the same but without level restriction on the dispelled effect. (You still roll the check of course). Mage Disjunction is banned from the game. Dispelling what you made 10 min to number check suck. Pathfinder is done poorly to handle huge dispells. So it is nerfed, but it's Swift Action so still worth it for that Mirror Image or Stoneskin.
Trivia:
- Death is death. All rez spells are banned, and you got to go to great length, sacrifice and roleplay to access a rez. We had, for example, mecanical reaincarnation in Iron Gods, Undead Rising as part of a deal with a Ghoul of Nemret Nektoria, or divine intervention through act of faith.
Each houserule is voted by the group, and at the end of each huge chapter of a campaign we reavaluate the list together. The list has been consistent for the last two years, so I am finaly confortable enough to share it here. I hope it inspires some of you. Feel free to ask questions!
In general, feat tax is reduce, loot is stronger and more flavorfull and thematic and rare, combat are more mobile and polyvalent, and roleplay take a bigger place than in regular Pathfinder because over optimization and rush has been reduced, and PC will be stronger but NPC too, and death will be scary. You will see the Barbarian use a Scroll, or the Wizard critic with Deadly Aim on the crossbow. You will have your players in joy on a Wand of Mirror Image or a Book that give a perma +2 into one SKill, and people will move around trying to bullrush into hazards or trip as AoO way more.
I really love Pathfinder 1, and strongly dislike Pathfinder 2. But sometimes PF1 take away your will to live, and there is a world where I want to love PF2 with all my hearth but it seems I am unable to do it.
Bakckground:
- PF1: Played and Dmed Iron Gods, Hell's Rebells, Rise of the Runelords, Mummy's Mask, Reign of Winter, Jade Regent, and homebrew one shot.
- PF2: Played and DMed Plaguestone, Extinction Curse, and a Hombrew Campaign of 8 scenarios.
- Other: Played and Dmed a lot in Warhammer, Demon Lord, L5R, Cypher System, Star Wars Edge, 5e (a loooot) and many other in one shot or 2-3 shots.
Pathfinder 1:
- I played a Brawler with an Automail from Full Metal Alchimyst and Hook Fightning. It was awesome.
- I killed as a DM my cleric player in our first campaign with grapple/grab/constrict in 2 rounds and the group was powerless to stop me.
- We run Iron Gods with a Summoner in the group and his eidolon became a diety, fitting with the fact that it was the most powerfull member of the group, it was awesome.
- One day I played a Barbarian/Alchymyst Orc in a Hombrew level 4, and I made the DM quitt. It was terrible.
- As a DM, one Psychic player of mine Possessed in one spell the three big dragons of the campaign (at 3 different time of the story) with a stupid DC and Persistent Metamagic. It was awesome. He killed the henchman of the Dragons with the Dragons, and made them bow to suffer coup de grace from the group. Awesome.
- One of my noob player made once a Knife Master Rogue, and realized that he was a noob looking at the Vivisectionist and oversized kukri. That was terrible.
- I TPK my party in Rise of the Runelords at the end boss, winning Initiative and Casting Mage Disjunction on the group. It is as of today my biggest failure as a DM, and the most anticlimatic end of a campaign.
- One of my player in the current campaign is a Witch with the SLumber Hex. She can make every boss fall to sleep with an awesome catchphrase, it is awesome, and the whole group love her.
- One of my player in the current campaign is a Witch with the SLumber Hex. She can make every boss fall to sleep with an awesome catchphrase, it is terrible gameplay and spammy.
Pathfinder 2:
- The character creation, and moving the different part of who you are, is probably the best in all RPGs except L5R. It is by far the most flavorfull, rp and rule wise, and it is awesome. So was our Monkey Goblin Rogue multiclass Alchemyst with his prehensible tail and his high Acrobatics skill.
- Our more martially inclined players love PF2 so much. Especially our Barbarian Matheus, who scared to death the Extinction Curse. And our Figther Rondelio, with his Halfling Fork.
- At the second volume of the campaign, all our group had reroll Martials, with casting only coming from archetype. I think my eyes bleed when I read Pass without Traces in PF2, having never seen a spell so bad in my entire life.
- I DMed the Homebrew campaign, and I had the blast of my life as a DM. Like the system was so MUCH my ally.PF2 is the best system to create the challenge you want in a thematic way. I did a "Sylvan Greveknigth" that did everything a Dead Druid inspired Graveknight is supposed to do, and I did an Erutaki (Inuit) Thug Boss with two Polar Bears as pet, and they fought in an ice arena, and it was one of the best fight of my DM career.
- And it was the feeling for the entiriety of our PF2 runs: my monsters, homberew or AP, felt so much more cooler, efficient and dangerous than the players. Even at lvl -2. My players felt sometimes at agony looking at their HPs, or the cool thingy of the monsters. And 50% to miss in a Pathfinder Golarion setting (and not in a Grim Dark like Warhammer) felt TERRIBLE.
- The magic is awefull. Like there is no way to put it. Magic is weak, so weak. At level 6, my Druid and my Sorcerer players looked at me at the end of the session and told me: we want to reroll, we feel like garbage. And I agreed. And don't take me wrong, they are perfectly fine with playing Buff bots, or Healbots, but when they put Haste, Polymorph, Mirror Image (Bonded Mind, Share Spells, Alchemysts) or Greater invisibility on the Martials, not +1. Magic is so weak than it fealt weaker that setting and games where a Mage is powerfull because he can make it rain over the village and that's it. Because lorewise that makes him dangerous and powerfull. But in a world of Nex, and Geb, Azlant, Tyr-Baphon, where pyramids fly, and portals opens toward other planets and where there is a f+&&ing Dungeon where you can become a God, they made magic less powerfull than in Game of Thrones. Pathfinder 2 is a vengeance on 10+ years of "so-called" martial/caster inequality (which we always find so dumb in the fist place, it is a group game ffs).
Conclusion:
PF2 is full of good ideas. Even excellent ideas, from chracter creation to action economy. It is an awesome experience as a DM. AWESOME!! But... I don't see the point. Pathfinder and Golarion are a power game fantasy. You are hero of the village at 5, of the kingdom at 10, of the continent at 15 and of the multiverse at 20.And the same goes for the setting, from the Worldwound if PF1 to Azlant in the history of the setting to Tyr-Baphon undead army in PF2. You got Lich who f@$$ Gods, and hero who become God being drunk. And the system of PF1 allows you to become that murder machine.
In opposition 5e DnD make you a beliveable hero, in a system where story take a bigger place over rules and power fantasy. Same for Shadow of the Demon Lord, or 5e Legend of the Five Rings. Or Cypher System.
PF2 give power fantasy to your DM, has more than 500 pages of rules with feats that allow you to do things that you should already be doing with the skill, and cut your spells in two and your HP by half each fight. I don't see the point of the game, really, not trolling. The deisgn make no sense, if you want a gritty feeling, you don't play Pathfinder. You just make the campaign stop at level 7, or you houserule, or you use a different system but keep Golarion as the setting, like the upcoming Kingmaker in 5e.
And as Paizo fans, and most notably Golarion fans (best setting in fantasy, period) we want to love PF2. So hard. But we can't. That being said it is a very alive game, with great community, wonderfull setting, and whitout a huge numbers of the cons of PF1. So I say try it, go for it. Play the Plaguestone Module, which is a very fun adventure and story, and see for yourselves :)
I'll submit a Blacksmith this weekend! Seems like a good team player, and I want to look into the eyes of elder terrors, and be able to break their claws.
Edit: I'll maybe make two submission for the sake of team variety.
How much background can we have? A few memories or sensations?
Damn theses rules are fun and strong! Just one quick question: can you get Martial Focus outside of combat? Or do you have to always obtain it during a fight?
Also, does this campaign allows some off-time? Because I am really fond of the Blacksmith.
Ariel was born in Waterdeep in a prosperous family. Her father, Linthariel Del’a’win, an exiled Moon Elf, was known for his wonderfull work as an alchemist and apothicary. It was a blessed time for Ariel’s parents, despite her mother difficulties to live in a city of Humans.
But things never stay the same, and sometimes one who was once happy can be broken. A few days before Ariel’s birth, her mother discovered that Linthariel did not only create remedies and potions, but also that he was a poison supplyer for the dread organization known as the Zentharim. When she confronted her husband about his shady buisness, Linthariel decided that it was indeed a good idea to stop his partenership with them.
But you don’t quit on the Zentharim. They warned Linthariel that there will be consequences. Exactly three weeks after Ariel’s birth, her mother was killed in the middle of the street by a powerful blast. Ariel have no memories at all of her.
This awful act broke Linthariel, and he quickly started to work for the Zentharim again, knowing that his daugther could be next. He tried in anyway he could to protect Ariel by marrying her as soon as possible, and making her stay away from his buisness. But the young Elf had a bright spirit, an inquisitive mind and good reflexes.
Ariel felt like she was trapped in a golden cage, and quickly learnt how to disapear at night from her bedroom. She red her father’s books, ran into the streets at night and even took swordplay lessons from one on the finest blade in the city. And as she grew older, she realized that she will never be free from her father’s good intentions and guilt. Once day, leaving a letter behind, she just did not come home.
If the first weeks on the road were difficult, she quickly enjoyed her new lifestyle. She worked as a mercenary, and then a private detective for a few nobles along the Sword Coast, from Luskan to Calimsham. It was during one of these mission that she encountered her companions.
Since then, it’s adventure time !
Profil:
Ariel The Swift
Female Elf Investigator (Empiricist) 6
CG Medium Humanoid (Elf)
Init +3; Senses Perception +15; Low-Light Vision
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Defense
--------------------
AC 18, Touch 13, Flat-footed 15 (+5 Armor)
HP 43 (6d8+12)
Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +6
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Longsword +1 : +8, 1d8+4, 19/20 x2
Ranged Investigator Extracts Known (CL 6th)
. . 2nd (4/day) Alchemical Allocation, Invisibility, See Invisibility
. . 1st (5/day) Cure Light Wounds, Disguise Self, Enlarge Personn, Heightened Awareness, Long Arm, Shield
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
[b]Str 8, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 11
Base Atk +4; CMB +3/+6; CMD 16
Feats Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Longsword), Slashing Grace (Longsword)
Traits Accelerated Drinker
Skills Acrobatics +12 (6r), Disable Device +13 (6r), Perception +15 (6r), Stealth +12 (6r), Use Magic Device +13 (6r), Sense Motive +10 (3r), Escape Artist +9 (3r), Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Plane, Nature, Religion) +10 (3r/each), Knowledge (History, Local, Nobility) +8 (1r/each), Craft (Alchemy) +14 (1r), Climb +5 (3r), Linguistics +8 (1r)
Languages Common, Elf, Draconic, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan, Undercommon
[b]SQ Inspiration (10/day), Studied Combat (MA, 4 rounds, +3), Studied Strike (+2d6), Unfailling Logic (+2), Elven Immunities, Trap Sense (+2), Mutagen (6 hours)
Combat Gear Longsword +1, Mithral Chain Shirt +1 ; Other Gear , Belt of Mighty Constitution (+2), Cloack of Resistance (+1), Formula Book, Alchememist's Kit (10 Torches, 5 Rations), Masterwork Thieve's Tools, 3535 gc
--------------------
Special Abilities
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Weapon Familiarity: Elves are proficient with longbows (including composite longbows), longswords, rapiers, and shortbows (including composite shortbows), and treat any weapon with the word "elven" in its name as a martial weapon.
Silent Hunter: Elves with this racial trait reduce the penalty for using Stealth while moving by 5 and can make Stealth checks while running at a –20 penalty (this number includes the penalty reduction from this racial trait). This racial trait replaces elven magic.
Ceasless Observation: At 2nd level, an empiricist uses his Intelligence modif ier instead of the skill’s typical ability for all Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive, and Use Magic Device checks. He can also use his Intelligence modifier instead of Charisma on any Diplomacy checks made to gather information. This ability replaces poison lore and poison resistance.
Alchemy: When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, an investigator gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the skill check. In addition, an investigator can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round to attempt such a check.
Trapfinding: An investigator adds 1/2 his level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device checks (minimum 1). An investigator can use Disable Device to disarm magical traps.
Inspiration: As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check, including any on which he takes 10 or 20. This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll. The investigator can use inspiration on any Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spellcraft skill checks without expending a use of inspiration, provided he’s trained in the skill. Inspiration can also be used on attack rolls and saving throws, at the cost of expending two uses of inspiration each time from the investigator’s pool. In the case of saving throws, using inspiration is an immediate action rather than a free action.
Investigator Talents: - Alchemist Discoveries (Infusion, Mutagen)
NB: Sorry if I did any mistakes, my English is still far from perfect but I'm working on it. And I'll spend the rest of the gold once the group is full, if I'm selected.
That seems interesting! How do you feel about Use Magic Device? Always good to have someone decent with it, but it seems opposed to what you're trying to do here?
Anyway I got a few ideas for a character, I'll post that today or Monday. Probably a Monk or à Paladin with that 25 points buy!
UMD is fine as a tool in your arsenal but using it to overcome all of the woes of being without a caster kinda defeats the point, yes.
I apologize for not specifying this earlier, and this is not aimed at anyone in particular, but I should say this: this game is largely intended as a proving grounds for Spheres of Might, so characters that use the system can expect more interest from me. I would highly recommend looking into Spheres classes that fit your concept or using the Spheres archetype for your preferred class.
On the chance that some people wish to rebuild the characters they have already submitted I am pushing the deadline back to May 26th. Again, I apologize for not making this clear in the OP.
Alright I'll look into it, time to leave the comfort zone! Thanks for the clarification.
That seems interesting! How do you feel about Use Magic Device? Always good to have someone decent with it, but it seems opposed to what you're trying to do here?
Anyway I got a few ideas for a character, I'll post that today or Monday. Probably a Monk or à Paladin with that 25 points buy!
Ariel The Swift
Female Elf Investigator (Empiricist) 6
NG Medium Humanoid (Elf)
Init +3; Senses Perception +15; Low-Light Vision
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, Touch 13, Flat-footed 15 (+5 Armor)
HP 43 (6d8+12)
Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +6
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Longsword +1 : +8, 1d8+4, 19/20 x2
Ranged
Investigator Extracts Known (CL 6th)
. . 2nd (4/day) Alchemical Allocation, Invisibility, See Invisibility
. . 1st (5/day) Cure Light Wounds, Disguise Self, Enlarge Personn, Heightened Awareness, Long Arm, Shield
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 11
Base Atk +4; CMB +3/+6; CMD 16
Feats Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Longsword), Slashing Grace (Longsword)
Traits Accelerated Drinker
Skills Acrobatics +12 (6r), Disable Device +13 (6r), Perception +15 (6r), Stealth +12 (6r), Use Magic Device +13 (6r), Sense Motive +10 (3r), Escape Artist +9 (3r), Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Plane, Nature, Religion) +10 (3r/each), Knowledge (History, Local, Nobility) +8 (1r/each), Craft (Alchemy) +14 (1r), Climb +5 (3r), Linguistics +8 (1r)
Languages Common, Elf, Draconic, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan, Undercommon
SQ Inspiration (10/day), Studied Combat (MA, 4 rounds, +3), Studied Strike (+2d6), Unfailling Logic (+2), Elven Immunities, Trap Sense (+2), Mutagen (6 hours)
Combat Gear Longsword +1, Mithral Chain Shirt +1 ; Other Gear , Belt of Mighty Constitution (+2), Cloack of Resistance (+1), Formula Book, Alchememist's Kit (10 Torches, 5 Rations), Masterwork Thieve's Tools, 3535 gc
--------------------
Special Abilities
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Weapon Familiarity: Elves are proficient with longbows (including composite longbows), longswords, rapiers, and shortbows (including composite shortbows), and treat any weapon with the word "elven" in its name as a martial weapon.
Silent Hunter: Elves with this racial trait reduce the penalty for using Stealth while moving by 5 and can make Stealth checks while running at a –20 penalty (this number includes the penalty reduction from this racial trait). This racial trait replaces elven magic.
Ceasless Observation: At 2nd level, an empiricist uses his Intelligence modif ier instead of the skill’s typical ability for all Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive, and Use Magic Device checks. He can also use his Intelligence modifier instead of Charisma on any Diplomacy checks made to gather information. This ability replaces poison lore and poison resistance.
Alchemy: When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, an investigator gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the skill check. In addition, an investigator can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round to attempt such a check.
Trapfinding: An investigator adds 1/2 his level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device checks (minimum 1). An investigator can use Disable Device to disarm magical traps.
Inspiration: As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check, including any on which he takes 10 or 20. This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll. The investigator can use inspiration on any Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spellcraft skill checks without expending a use of inspiration, provided he’s trained in the skill. Inspiration can also be used on attack rolls and saving throws, at the cost of expending two uses of inspiration each time from the investigator’s pool. In the case of saving throws, using inspiration is an immediate action rather than a free action.
Investigator Talents: - Alchemist Discoveries (Infusion, Mutagen)
The background will be done this weekend. I'll wait to see the others characters before completing my gear.
Ariel The Swift
Female Elf Investigator (Empiricist) 6
NG Medium Humanoid (Elf)
Init +3; Senses Perception +15; Low-Light Vision
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Defense
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AC 18, Touch 13, Flat-footed 15 (+5 Armor)
HP 43 (6d8+12)
Fort +4, Ref +9, Will +6
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee Longsword +1 : +8, 1d8+4, 19/20 x2
Ranged Investigator Extracts Known (CL 6th)
. . 2nd (4/day) Alchemical Allocation, Invisibility, See Invisibility
. . 1st (5/day) Cure Light Wounds, Disguise Self, Enlarge Personn, Heightened Awareness, Long Arm, Shield
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Statistics
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Str 8, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 11
Base Atk +4; CMB +3/+6; CMD 16
Feats Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Longsword), Slashing Grace (Longsword)
Traits Accelerated Drinker
Skills Acrobatics +12 (6r), Disable Device +13 (6r), Perception +15 (6r), Stealth +12 (6r), Use Magic Device +13 (6r), Sense Motive +10 (3r), Escape Artist +9 (3r), Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Plane, Nature, Religion) +10 (3r/each), Knowledge (History, Local, Nobility) +8 (1r/each), Craft (Alchemy) +14 (1r), Climb +5 (3r), Linguistics +8 (1r)
Languages Common, Elf, Draconic, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan, Undercommon
SQ Inspiration (10/day), Studied Combat (MA, 4 rounds, +3), Studied Strike (+2d6), Unfailling Logic (+2), Elven Immunities, Trap Sense (+2), Mutagen (6 hours)
Combat Gear Longsword +1, Mithral Chain Shirt +1 ; Other Gear , Belt of Mighty Constitution (+2), Cloack of Resistance (+1), Formula Book, Alchememist's Kit (10 Torches, 5 Rations), Masterwork Thieve's Tools, 3535 gc
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Special Abilities
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Weapon Familiarity: Elves are proficient with longbows (including composite longbows), longswords, rapiers, and shortbows (including composite shortbows), and treat any weapon with the word "elven" in its name as a martial weapon.
Silent Hunter: Elves with this racial trait reduce the penalty for using Stealth while moving by 5 and can make Stealth checks while running at a –20 penalty (this number includes the penalty reduction from this racial trait). This racial trait replaces elven magic.
Ceasless Observation: At 2nd level, an empiricist uses his Intelligence modif ier instead of the skill’s typical ability for all Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive, and Use Magic Device checks. He can also use his Intelligence modifier instead of Charisma on any Diplomacy checks made to gather information. This ability replaces poison lore and poison resistance.
Alchemy: When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, an investigator gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the skill check. In addition, an investigator can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round to attempt such a check.
Trapfinding: An investigator adds 1/2 his level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device checks (minimum 1). An investigator can use Disable Device to disarm magical traps.
Inspiration: As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check, including any on which he takes 10 or 20. This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll. The investigator can use inspiration on any Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spellcraft skill checks without expending a use of inspiration, provided he’s trained in the skill. Inspiration can also be used on attack rolls and saving throws, at the cost of expending two uses of inspiration each time from the investigator’s pool. In the case of saving throws, using inspiration is an immediate action rather than a free action.
Investigator Talents: - Alchemist Discoveries (Infusion, Mutagen)
Hey guys, I'm in need of a few clarifications on the Sha'ir archetype:
- When it is written that the Jins are insubstantial, what does it mean? They don't really exist untill you choose to manifest them as Elementals?
- When you use a focus power with them, like Physical Enhancement from the Transmutation School, who is the target? Your Jins or yourself? Because they are supposed to work like items you carry, so I have no idea which interpretation is correct here.
Alright I got a lot of interesting point of view here! Yes of course I was only speaking about Spells, no extraordinary or SP abilities from classes races or monsters or things like bardic inspiration.
Alirght I'll try to keep the group more busy and to avoid that "one encounter" a day feeling. And yes definitely 2 is not enough.
But yeah I got a few good advices to consider here thanks!
I'm looking for some advices/opinions on a possible houserule. I play with between 3-5 of my friends each week, as the GM. We are using 25 points buy and a few houserules:
- Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace are the same feat. (For Rapier and light weapon one handed only.)
- All movements provock attack of oppotunity. (Bullrush, Grapple, Magic that pushes people away...)
- When you do just one thing (one attack, one spell...) you can take your action during your movement as you like and then finish your movement.
- No multiclassing except for a PrC with my approval.
- Automatic progression for magical items, and true magical items are rare and powerful (generally speaking one or two top for each player at the end of the campaign.)
All those rules are for them and my monsters.
My players are not mix-maxers. They build decent characters but that's it, and we all find the difficulty of the encounters really good until they reach level 7-8. That's where I've got an issue with the game.
Magical bonuses, or buffs, wrecked the game. If my NPC or monster has enough time, his CR is way more powerfull than what it should be. Same goes for them. When they have enough time, the fight is like a piece of cake for them (Blood Rager with Long Arm, Enlarge Personn and Abberant Bloodline...). When I have enough time, it's the other way around (Blur, Mirror Image...). And when they cast spells like that for a minor encounter and it goes to waste I can see sadness in their eyes.
The other issue is that sometimes we have an hard time keeping record of all those spells and we make mistakes (in both ways).
Finally, I hate when they go berzerk rush inside the dungeon just because "time is runing out" on the buffs.
So I was wondering if it could be a good idea to limit the number of buffs you can have at the same time. Like 2 or 3. I ask about this here because I've no clue if that's an issue for other people. I think it could be a good idea but I'm scared that some classes could lost a lot on a houserule like that.
Or to allow some of these spells to be cast immediately something like a few times a day? Like the warpriest's fervor?
Any insights is good to take. (We generaly don't go farther than level 12-14. This campaign is going to be finished at 13).
Hi there! I decided it was time to give a try on PbP after a few years of tabletop with my home group (Jade Regent, Skulls and Shackles, Reign of Winter, Ravenloft (5th) and a few others homemade). I'll be interested to propose a character tomorrow (it's 4AM right now ^^) is that's okay for you to take a PbP newbie. I was watching the forum for a module because I think an AP is a little bit too ambitious for starting PbP and a PFS scenario not enough tied to a grand story (PbP giving the opportunity I hope to really create a narrativ)
I'll submit an Investigator if that's okay for you.
