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I thought we could share here our own houserules, coming from more than 4 completed AP with a DM/Players turn over, with around 3-4 PC with 25 Points Buy, and many hombrew and little one shots.
First of all, the first Houserule: if anything is broken or bad, we nerf or up it. If anything in the houserule change a capacity of a class/feat and the like, we change it too to adapt with our houserule in mind. All houserules are for PCs and NPCs/Monsters.
Character Creation and Progression:
- 25 Point Buy, all Archyves of Nethys allowed.
- No more than three classes (counting dips and Prestige Classes) and 2 Archetypes in total allowed.
- Consolidated Skills from Pathfinder Unchained.
- Martial Prof for everyone, one Exotic Prof for Martials.
- One bonus feat for everyone (in addition to Human for example, or the weapon rule above).
Combat:
- Finesse is a Weapon property. Not a feat. You can add DEX to hit & dammage with a Finesse weapon if you got only one finesseable weapon and nothing in the other hand. You still need Slashing Grace for a Bastard Sword, and Double Finesse for TWF or Agile, and the like for other fighting style.
- Power Attack, Deadly Aim, and Combat Expertise are not feats, but attack options avaible for everyone. You choose to use them at the start of the round.
- Maneuvers don't provock attacks of opportunity. All the other standards rules are still working as in the book. The first feat for each maneuver is not mandatory to access the feat tree.
- You can take your Simple action whenever you want inside your movement action. You can start the movement, hit or cast in the middle, and finish it. (You still follow all the other rules, like Acrobatics or Attack of opportunity)
- You take not penalty other than cover for shooting in a melee, so Precise Shot is useless.
- When you do a touch attack for whatever reason, you can chose to hit the normal AC and do a punch in the same time. Cleric with Touch Powers and a Spiked Gauntlet are a thing, and a fun one. If you miss, you miss both the punch and the touch ability.
Abilities:
- Strength 16-18-20 remove the movement and skill penalty of armors (light, medium, heavy) and shields. Not the Dex bonus though.
- A character with a Charisma of 16+ start the game session with a free scroll or potion in accordance of his chossing in accordance with his level. Because he is either "always ready" or "well connected", and because Charisma is a dump stat.
Magic Items and loots:
- Automatic Bonus Progression from Pathfinder Unchained.
- Consumables scales on the DC and abilities of the user, like a Staff. They tend to cost a LOOOT more (like 3-4 times the base price), are rarer and way more powerfull. You will rarely see a full wand with 50 charges, but it will make very memorable use of a Fireball scroll for example. And a 12 Charges Cure light Wounds is an awesome loot for low level party.
- No UMD require to use an item. Use your best mental stat. Yup, the Fighter can suddenly put off a scroll and Summon a Dire Lion, big effect.
- We go wild in the loot department, from body part of monster as a one time ingredient for a spell that give +1 DC or something, or a story feat, or a possessed item than each session you got to save to avoid mental domination, and the list goes on. Magic item tends to be more rare but more impactfull, but loot will be plenty, and always of use. If you like an item, you can disenchant it with Crafting Feats, and put some of it inside another one, and we tend to scale the DC of the big items of an AP on level progression. Of course you got to loot the strong item from the baddie first, so he will be more dangerous. I would say the frequency of loot is midway between a regular AP and a DnD 5 adventure.
Buff & Magic:
- Buff (and only buff, no hostile effect) duration is called "scenes". A scene is a narrative moment that make sense, like a room with one fight, or a chase in an alley, or a conversation in a social gala. So a scene can be 2 min in story time if you kill the monster quietly in the room, or 20 minutes because they came in wave after wave. The DM always call: The scene is over.
- 1 hour/ level is the whole day, 10 min/level is three scenes, 1 min/level is two scenes, less is 1 scene. Why? To avoid the "rush while buff are active, roleplay or caution later", to avoid the "my buff at low level suck and are not worth it" and the "late game I go all buff all day".
- No more than two pets, summons or the like for one player or one NPC. To reduce time of turn.
- Dispel Magic is a Swift Action that target an effect of your choice of the lowest level on the target (or in the area). Dispel Greater is the same but without level restriction on the dispelled effect. (You still roll the check of course). Mage Disjunction is banned from the game. Dispelling what you made 10 min to number check suck. Pathfinder is done poorly to handle huge dispells. So it is nerfed, but it's Swift Action so still worth it for that Mirror Image or Stoneskin.
Trivia:
- Death is death. All rez spells are banned, and you got to go to great length, sacrifice and roleplay to access a rez. We had, for example, mecanical reaincarnation in Iron Gods, Undead Rising as part of a deal with a Ghoul of Nemret Nektoria, or divine intervention through act of faith.
Each houserule is voted by the group, and at the end of each huge chapter of a campaign we reavaluate the list together. The list has been consistent for the last two years, so I am finaly confortable enough to share it here. I hope it inspires some of you. Feel free to ask questions!
In general, feat tax is reduce, loot is stronger and more flavorfull and thematic and rare, combat are more mobile and polyvalent, and roleplay take a bigger place than in regular Pathfinder because over optimization and rush has been reduced, and PC will be stronger but NPC too, and death will be scary. You will see the Barbarian use a Scroll, or the Wizard critic with Deadly Aim on the crossbow. You will have your players in joy on a Wand of Mirror Image or a Book that give a perma +2 into one SKill, and people will move around trying to bullrush into hazards or trip as AoO way more.
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I like it, especially the part where you review and re-vote on house rules after every major chapter. That's a solid idea for the group. Otherwise generally I liked them, even the rules that I know I wouldn't like I can see why you would and you're choosing them so a big *thumbs up*.
There's just one thing I didn't understand ...
- No more than three classes (counting dips and Prestige Classes) and 2 Archetypes in total allowed.
Why? 0_o
I assume this was in response to something, otherwise I don't understand what problem this was trying to solve.
I'm actually asking, not trying to shame you or anything - I'm genuinely confused by this.
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No don't worry. I made the list avaible here so that people can use it, comment it, criticize it and the like. We wanted to avoid powergaming. We optimize our characters and NPCs, don't get me wrong, but it can (and had been sometimes) too much.
So we decided on this arbitrary number that felt like you had enough room to enjoy the system and our mastery of it, but that it would naturally avoid some of the excess of the system.
it is still enough to go full powerhouse, but it also act as a reminder to not break the game so much that we break the fun.
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Interesting stuff. Everyone essentially having spring attack, shot on the run or cast on the run is interesting. Dunno about banning the resurrection spells. If someone dies, I typically lean towards raise dead being quick and easy to continue the adventure vs side shenanigans or penalties.
Consumable changes are interesting again. Does your group have a "dedicated healer" typically or is out of combat healing usually handled by consumables? Looks like Crafting Feats aren't disallowed. I think Wizard's getting fully powered scrolls might be a bit stronk.
No UMD required is a big change to items/consumables. Not sure what to think about that one. Seems...harmless at first glance, but again not sure.
Charisma thing is silly, probably wouldn't incorporate that.
My group personally just removes Armor Check Penalties based on proficiency.
The rest of the combat stuff my group uses some form of already. For Finesse characters, we just allow Deadly Agility from Path of War so it's a 1 feat tax to get Dex-to-Damage.
1 Free Bonus Feat is definitely a fun option. I'm always down for my players to simply be able to do more or have more options. Free martial proficiency for everyone is interesting. Not sure if I'd go that far, but the free 1 exotic weapon for all Martials is cool.
My group uses Background Skills. I've looked at Consolidated Skills and while it looks interesting...I'm not quite sure yet where I stand with it.
Agreed on the multiclassing bit. Frankly, if a single class doesn't fulfill your concept, kludging together more classes usually ends up worse unless you know what you're doing. Yep my group also plays 25 PB.
For additional options, my group uses all Archives of Nethys, Spheres, Psionics, and sometimes Path of War depending on the campaign. Deadly Agility is always allowed though. I think getting rid of the feat tax isn't a bad idea though.
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Dunno about banning the resurrection spells. If someone dies, I typically lean towards raise dead being quick and easy to continue the adventure vs side shenanigans or penalties.
This tends to be more of a flavour choice than a mechanical one. Making resurrection easier to obtain means that death is less threatening and players feel more powerful.
Sometimes players can get invested in their characters and having the PC die makes it harder for them to engage with the new PC. Having readily available resurrection magic can help keep everyone invested in the story.
On the otherhand, consequences can get people more invested. If you know a scenario could mean the end of your character then you're more likely to act in character and flee when the going gets tough, which helps you invest in your character in another way.
I don't think there's a CORRECT answer for this one, it's going to depend on the group.
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- Two archetypes in total yup. It tends to be enough in general. Either you got two on your only class, or one for each class. We almost never had anyone with three class where the third was not a PrC.
To answer to you Scavion, yes combat is more mobile, but nothing too strong, because moving around is still a gamble in PF, unless you do it smartly or use some sort of build or ressource to do it. But players tend to take a bit more risk mouving around.
The death part was a way to make people scared of dying. And add that extra RP that tend to be specific to the situation. But reroll is also another option, we try to have NpC running aroudn ready to step in. But, funny things, it is always the rule that we disagree the most on, and it is frequently discussed. It is still here, for now.
We experimented with Charisma (add it to will or Perception, things like that) but it was never satisfying. Then we read the Pathfinder something Prc and the racial feat of Halflings, and we liked the idea of the always ready. So, as cunsummables are stronger, you got your shiny one use item each time. We had some clutch move with it. But nothing too strong. I agree that it is not perfect and a bit silly, and I would gladly take any suggestions to buff CHarisma without transforming a CHA character into something broken.
Martial Prof honestly make a difference at level 1-3. If you are Martial you d'ont care, if you are hybrid you don't have to do a shenaningan to take the martial weapon you want (looking at you Cleric and Inquisitor), and if you got Wizard you got easier access to funky build like Eldritch Knight. And sometimes you got you full caster that takes out a sword and got one lucky swing or a coup de grace. Nothing game breaking. Crank Crossbow is a favorite for the free exotic martial.
Consolidated Skills are awesome. Require a bit of tweak with Uchained Rogue or Investigator but nothing too hard. But we like our othe game with a little skill list, so it was more porting it to PF.
UMD and Consummables and Buff duration are what change the most the game. But for us it is in a fun way. Sometimes we got a Healer, sometimes not. But we tend to have someone with a class that got the mandatory Restore and Cure. We increase the cost of creation for Crafting Feats like Scrolls. This way avoid bloat cunsummables, pile on all the buff, but also make a simple scroll a valuable loot, because the scaling and the fact that everybody can use it will make it usefull at one point, no matter what. So people don't pile on the loot, but use it frequently and you got a good rotation. We had in Rise a Figther with the Magic Item Feat line from I don't remember where, was a very fun build. He was the Profane Magic Guy, with half the treasure of the group on him but nothing martial except a good weapon.
I will add Deadly Agility I think, did not know it. We don't use 3pp. One day we are planning to try Spheres, but it seems to be the kind of thing that become the only thing once it is aallowd in play, no?
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Spheres has built-in some of the houserule workarounds here. Try it out, you might like it. You don't necessarily have to make it the only thing allowed once in play. The Tyrant's Grasp game I was in was running Spheres characters alongside normal PF characters.
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Charisma to Initiative could be a good idea, got to try it. And yes, maybe give some feats for Feint and the like at certain capstone of Social Skills, that could be a power up to Charisma too.
For the Dex and the Finesse Training, we play with Unchained Rogue which is a very decent class, and when they have to choose a Finesse training, they either pick one (because they want to TWF, or Elven Blade or whatever, because our houserule only work on one handed fight) or they got a bonus feat.
Breath of Life is accepted, because the timing of the spell seems right. And Divine casters with true rez get to add one spell of their choosing from same level from another list that make sense for the character depending on RP or God that take the rez spot in the spell list.
Of course with our death rules, the DM don't spamm Death Effect and Coup de Grace all day. But when you do, the tension at the table goes up dramaticaly.
Oh and I forgot but we play with Unchained Class except Monk where you can choose, and we use the UBarbarian Rage for Rage type mecanics like Skald and Bloodrager. A bit weaker but more clean and easy to use.
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By allowing free UMD for everyone, you've driven another nail in the coffin of Charisma. Seems like you've made your own problem there.
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Thanks for sharing! I randomly think of doing this some time , just do I too can whether the slings and arrows of unintended consequences of choices.
I can see, and agree, that playing buffs to scenes instead of tracking rounds for expiring effects removes a headache. I myself like the tracking, because my battles and scenes will hit 12-15 rounds, and I like to see how things can change. But, I also put the spells into the roll 20 initiative tracker, so that removes that problem.
But there's a lot here that I too do, or at least some form of it.
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Good stuff! I love houserules. For my current campaign (homebrew) I sat down with a player who no longer gets to game with us due to his job and we hashed out a lot of experimental and house rules. So much so that he actually printed off copies in a handbook for my group (he used to work for Troll Lord Games and still has access to use their printing facilities if he wants). There are a lot of rules, most have worked out pretty well, a few have been clunkers, and a few underwent revision after playing with them.