Thanks for the answer. What I am aiming is to help my players who want to play a martial but are not good at making characters. They are completely new to the game. PoW and kirthfinder go a long way to make martials interesting and fun to play. However I am afraid that the mechanical depth of kirthfinder martials might be a huge wall of an obstacle for my player to overcome. They will have to keep track of way too many things and way to many modifiers.
Hence I am going for path of war. A lot of the issues are solved with spell like maneuvers they can easily understand and keep track while allowing them to do cool stuff in combat. I am wondering if mixing kirthfinder Feats will make PoW classes over the top. And if that's the case which Feats will be the most dangerous to allow?
As I said I am determined to make this work and I just want advice on what Feats should I be careful with and which one should I flat out forbid.
I am planning to use kirthfinder for my upcoming campaign but I also really really love path of war. I am planning to allow it side by side with the dynamic martial classes presented here.
I can see some Feats allowing PoW full initiator (stalker, warder, zealot etc) creating issues. I am determined to make your subsystem work with PoW though so if anyone thinks that some Feats should be prohibited to avoid extreme power creep let me know.
So far I am thinking that Multiattack should not be allowed to initiator classes to prevent problematic boost + full attack + benefits of iterative attacks and Multiattack feat presented in kirthfinder.
Do you guys have other suggestions? What other feat will skyrocket PoW classes efficiency?
Only warder, stalker, warlord, zealot and harbinger will be allowed.
PS: I insist on PoW classes to give some of my newbies and non optimizers the ability to be efficient as a martial if they so desire. I could literally spent days making new builds with kirthfinder rules but most of my players are less inclined to do so. At the cost of efficiency.
I am about to start a new game and we replaced vancian magic with spheres of power, akashic mysteries, pact magic, and psionics.
I am trying to wrap my head around spheres of power as it is the only system I am not very familiar. I have some questions.
1) How did people balance alteration? It seems that I can give 3-4 traits at 6 level (with the advanced talent) traits. I can also spent an extra spell point to give all an equal amount of traits to 1 ally for every 2 levels I posses. So at 6th level I can spent 2 spell points and give to my three melee 3-4 traits which include pounce (1 trait), 4 claw attacks each (2 traits), an extra pair of arms (1 trait) and later give them even more hands and fly speed, more natural attacks etc.
So they can fullattack every round due to pounce and get a terrible amount of offensive power.
Add couple of buffs from one or two other classes, and godforbid if one of those is a bard and you just created unstoppable killing machines.
Am I doing something wrong here? Am I understanding something wrong? even without the advanced talent you still can spread around 3 traits to 3 people at 6th level.
2) Similarly, how do you deal with multiattackers? either via the twf style or natural attacks, when someone stacks number of attacks, shocking weapon quality, has a bard in the party which enhances every single attack with inspire courage, throw couple of buffs and your average unarmed strikes/twf/Natural attacks jester becomes monstrous?
I know DR is a thing... but it seems every single creature will have to be modified as such to have a chance of staying alive.
I am trying to build a necromancer. I chose Juju Oracle and I picked Spirit Vessels mystery.
The only problem is that I don't really understand how the whole thing works.
1a.) When I reanimate undead with the spell I reanimate the dead creature, does that creature use his + to attack and saves and skills and feats?
Does it use a fixed amount based on his HD/CR?
1b.) (where do you see how much HD does a creature have? In the bestiary I only see the CR)
2a.) when I reanimate a creature I have the option between skeleton and zombie template. Is Juju Zombie another template that I get because I chose Spirit Vessels mystery?
2b.) Any other necromancer without this mystery would just have the skeleton and zombie option?
2c.) Do Juju zombies casted by animate dead are under my control? Do they have free will and I need to enslave them before I command them? Or is it like the Animate Dead where when raised they serve under my control indefinitely?
Those who know Bleach will perhaps get this reference:
1) I had a witch that used a method called: Hundred Bindings. Everytime she will cast a curse to someone she will say for example ''Way of Binding Nr. 42: *insert dramatic title here* ''. That allowed me to be very creative with names and describing the misfortune and evil eye hex.
The bindings 90-95 were the death bindings which she used on a successful slumber hex (rarely).
Like: Way of Bindings Nr. 92: Earthmother's Betrayal, where a tomb rose from the back of the enemy and bound him with roots to the tomb giving him the same helpless condition as the slumber hex. It needs some discussion with the DM but it allowed for some very dramatic scenes.
The last 5 Bindings were not used often, and they represented super powerful spells that usually had a devastating aoe effect.
2) A big-sized fortune teller-like woman (wizard/fighter/eldritch knight archer) everytime she would full-attack she would reveal a magic card from the floating-around-her cards, creating a magical damaging effect on the enemy equal to the total damage she would do with her full attack.
3) A sacred fist/master of many styles monk buffing monster with super high AC and pummeling style/charge that imitated the way Avatar fought. He made very dramatic moves using the elements whenever he would avoid a hit or do damage. Whenever he did a critical, ánd all attacks where critical via pummeling style, it usually meant auto-kill the enemy which I described using the 4 elements theme (small hurricanes, erupting lava ala mini-volcano from bellow enemy's feet, water waves, massive sunray blasts etc)
Wait you are biped. So no pounce.
Yeah you are not even trying now.
We can improve it if you want. But if you feel like stepping on others shoes already and want to tone it down go for it. The beauty of the eidolon is how customizable it is. Choose more utility instead.
That's an average of 89 damage before damage reduction (which destroys multi attackers) IF ALL attacks hit.
Seems... ok to meh for 10 lvl. Depends on how much the rest of the group optimizes. Any other optimized dedicated martials will surpass you without effort.
You could improve the build though. It seems all over the place now with so many different natural attack types.
Have you considered divination wizard for early entry Eldritch Knight with Magical Knack trait for full caster level?
You could go Fighter 1/Div Wizard 1/ Eldritch Knight 3
You ll have 1 extra feat from eldritch knight, and you will be 1 BAB behind full BAB classes.
Although you won't be able to do both at the same time, you will be an almost full lvl wizard and a full BAB archer. Having all the sweet utility and buffing (10min/lvl and hour long buffs will be a great boon to your archery) and control of the wizard if you want to do that in battle and then grab your bow and shoot things.
You may continue with Arcane Archer eventually for full BAB again but with some spellcasting sacrifice (2 lvl), or more levels of wizards by sacrificing some BAB.
Elf (bonuses on dex and int and some other elf goodies) and Human (extra feat) work great with this.
''In the place of a Dark Lord you would have a Queen! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the Morn! Treacherous as the Seas! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!''
Hello beautiful troubles.
I am trying to build a powerful enchanter character with the gestalt rules and I am asking you suggestions.
The campaign is going to be Rise of the Runelords. We have so far many front liners and only one spellcaster.
What I got so far:
Kitsune as a race (obviously)
Sorcerer with the Fey bloodline. Perhaps crossblooded with serpentine to get the powerful arcana that allows me to use my enchants to more creatures. Not sure if it's worth it in this campaign though.
My problem is what the second class I should choose.What I thought so far is:
Dirge Bard (so I can enchant also undead) (but I don't see any further use of this class after that)
Lotus Geisha
Evangelist Cleric (getting the conversion inquisition to add my wisdom on my diplomacy, bluff and intimidate. I can get the Empyreal/celestial bloodline to use wisdom for all my stats and synergize better with the cleric)
I was considering devilbane priest (cleric archetype) for the extra feats but it says that you must choose some teamwork feats and then it suggest you some feats that are no teamwork feats but essential for the class, like spell penetration and its Greater version. So I don't know how that works.
Feats and stuff I have it all settled. I just need a powerful class that completes my vision for a powerful enchanter. I don't mind going full caster and not a martial like paladin to make a defensively strong character. I just want to be good at affecting the minds of others.
ps: I am a heavy optimized and so is the rest of the group.
The witch spell list is a fusion between enchantments/illusions/buffs and mind effects from the wizard, and the protective and healing magic of the cleric. Although not as specialized as the wizard or the cleric, it is very versatile and flavourful and fits thematically better with Galadriel.
You won't get flashy offensive spells like fireball and other Evocation spells, but then again elvish magic was never about that.
With the witch hexes you can emulate the subtle and mind related magic Galadriel seemed to hold in great depth. You can roleplay her hexes like misfortune and evil eye (rename them first) very differently. Like when the Fellowship met Celeborn and Galadriel in Caras Galadhon and Galadriel gazed at Boromir without saying a word and he begun sweating and eventually turned his eyes away, showing that she penetrated his mind and showed him/told him something upsetting. (getting -4 in AC or saving throws :P)
You can roleplay your cackle hex as chanting ethereal elvish tunes or something like that.
Now add the endurance (the highest of all spellcasters) the witch has in extended adventuring days with the healing and curative powers of the witch, the full of divinations and utility spell list and you have a powerful and thematic sorcerers.
Gimli: "Stay close, young Hobbits! They say that a great sorceress lives in these woods, an Elf-witch, of terrible power. All who look upon her, fall under her spell… and are never seen again." aka. Slumber hex :P
ps: with improved familiar: Faerie, Dragon you can get telepathy 100ft to roleplay her mind penetrating abilities.
I can make you a build your friend can use for guidance, just let me know.
As most people said, avoid full spellcasters as they can be quite daunting. Although sorcerer is pretty easy to play, he has to know what each spell does and how they affect the battlefield. That said, it's by far the easiest caster.
Some easy classes are:
Slayer (really, really straightforward with funny for a new player mechanics)
Fighter (can be a challenging with the amount of feats he gets, although straight forward. It wouldn't be my first option for a new player however as its a very limited class that contributes very little outside of combat, something you may want to avoid for a new player.)
Paladin (another easy and flavourful character. Strong mechanics and forgiving tankiness of all kind with minor spellcasting and powerful yet simple class features)
Barbarian (Slayer level easy. Interesting mechanics but he has to make some right choices to be effective later)
Rogue (easy to play as easy to mess up and feel weak. I would avoid it)
Ranger (My choice to go.The ranger is a little bit of everything. A flavorful fighter/sneaky kind of guy with full BAB, very minor and simple spellcasting he gets later to teach him how spells work, and an animal companion to teach him flanking and playing as a team without relying on his teammates capriciousness. Flavourful and simple mechanics for him to learn how to use. Gets a lot of skill to make him feel useful out of combat and has a great flavor for him to create an easy to go character. Rangers start strong and remain very relevant at all levels as a front line character. He can even play an archer type if he prefers)
She acted sometimes like a TN and LN in the past, but NG seems to be the most appropriate choice. Throw some light lawful or even chaotic behaviours every now and then (especially when emotional or protective) -without being pushy- and you are spot on.
Galadriel was good anyway. She just didn't take s!+& from anyone but she had a strong sense of justice.
Improved Familiar would give her a silvanshee cat yes. There is many nice choices for Improved Familiars. The Azatas and the Faerie Dragon are all good options.
I would like to see the build posted here for your wizard Lao
If you want to make your blasting viable, you are kinda forced to dip crossblooded sorcerer with Orc/Draconic as your bloodlines. You need those two arcanas to make your fireballs scary. If you are allowed to double archetype your sorcerer, take also Tattooed as this will give you a free ''Mage's Tattoo'' feat.
Build:
str. 10
dex. 14
con. 14
int. 18 + 2 (racial)= 20
wis. 12
cha. 7 (you can switch charisma with str. or lower str also and increase wisdom)
traits:
Magical Lineage: Fireball
Metamagic Master: Fireball
(Those two are essential for this build, at least one of them. If you can't definitely take one)
Feats:
Tattooed Sorcerer: Mage's Tattoo: Evocation
Wizard: Scribe Scroll (if this is society play, you ll switch this with spell focus: evocation)
Human: Spell Focus: Evocation
1) Spell Specialization: Burning Hands (Change it to Fireball later)
3) Heighten Spell (you need this for Preferred spell next level, you could also take Greater Spell Specialization but you need to know 5th lvl spells, so if you start late, it's suggested)
5) Preferred Spell: Fireball (Now you never have to prepare fireballs and you can cast them spontaneously by sacrificing other spells)
6 wizard bonus) Rime Metamagic (Change your fireball element to cold through your admixture wizard skill, and start pissing off the God Wizard) The second choice is: Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
7) Empower Metamagic (it's better than maximize metemagic)
9) Depending on what you chose at 6th lvl, put here the other one
11) Intensify Metamagic (so your fireballs keep scaling)
11 wiz bonus) Spell Penetration
13) Quicken Metamagic
15) Spell Perfection: Fireball (Retrain your Rime metamagic to Dazing metamagic and use it with spell perfection at the start of the combat)
16 wiz bonus) Greater Spell Penetration
Some notes:
- This build focuses on destruction while applying hefty debuffs with rime and dazing metamagic later. (starting from level 6)
- You can cast fireballs spontaneously from lvl 5 onward. Now you can prepare all the utility and control and summoning and whatever spell you like. Who said you can't be a God Wizard.
- Invest in knowledge skills so you scan the monster before you decide your element. You can change elements when you encounter fire immunity monsters. Resistances won't do much for them as your damage is so high that -20 won't matter at high levels.
- Human is better if you start early levels as it allows you access to important feats earlier. Elf is better at later levels with their spell penetration
- All our feats are about making your evocation spells better and stronger. If you want some extra feats like improved initiative (+++), improved familiar, fast study etc. you need to be very careful with what you re going to replace.
Gear:
Two rods: You need Maximize Rod and Selective Rod. The first will give you even more damage, and the second will save your friends bacon.
Headband of vast intellect and the other basic stuff.
How about a blaster with rime and dazing metamagic? Whatever survives your powerful destructive power gets a hefty debuff and you are able to control the battlefield while doing damage.
You can ofcourse get all the important stuff that makes a God wizard like black tentacles, haste, walls and summoning spells, illusions and all the utility. With preferred spell you won't have to prepare your fireballs and can cast them spontaneously allowing you to keep your spell slots for all the good utility and control spells you like.
Matamagic master and magical lineage or wayang traits will allow you to pack your fireballs with a lot of metamagic power.
1 level of sorcerer with orc and draconic bloodline will make your blast ridiculous and admixture wizard allows you to transform your blasts to any element when you encounter monsters with immunities. High knowledge skills will let you know these immunities beforehand so you can switch your elements.
I have a build ready with step by step explanation for this build if you find it interesting. It has all the goodies of a god wizard with aoe damage that will make your fighter jealous.
It is 5th level, 1/2 elf and max evolution points, 11. Extra Evolution twice, FCB 4 times to gain another evo point.
The claw eidolon has flight and I bought claws for its legs so it has, and can make, 4 claw attacks with a full attack.
Is buying 1 instance of Improved damage (claws) enough to raise the damage dice for ALL claw attacks from 1d4 to 1d6?
Yes it applies to a form of natural attack not a single attack. At 7 level when you ll choose large evolution they will become 1d8 and with the improved natural attack: claws feat you can pump it to 2d6 per attack. Not too shabby.
I like flight evolution early too but when you get overland flight spell its vetter to replace it with other evolutions. Energy attacks and rend for damage or spell resistance and improved natural armor for defense for example.
Con. 8 (Getting sick quite easily and I can't imagine my self taking a punch without passing out)
Int. 11 ( Although an avid reader with quick wits and imagination, I am really weak in learning new stuff in ways I don't find ideal. Exceptional survivalist and cunning when problems arise, yet too dumb to come up with a solid plan. I rely mostly on my guts to figure something out)
Wis. 15 (Able to understand rather good other people and their drives, most of my friends turn to me when they seek guidance or advice about serious matters. When it comes to stuff about my self my wisdom quickly drops to 10 as I am a notorious bad-decision maker)
Cha. 8 (Although likeable by most people for my quirkiness and bizarre attitude, I often come across as distant and rude. I have been (jokingly) accused by my circles as being too forward and inappropriate with strangers and too harsh and robotic with my closer friends)
I have a Wizard 1/Eldritch Knight 9 focusing on archery. (wizard is divination/scryer for early entry, and the weapons requirements was houseruled by my GM as not necessary mainly because I play as an elf that have proficiency with Longbows).
Even though I am almost full BAB character I struggle greatly with my +hit. I know this is largely because we wear no gear at all (seriously, nothing) but I was wondering if there is something I may be doing wrong. The -2 from manyshot and -3 from deadly aim bring my accuracy down to +10.... at 10 level. Are enchantments and +points in dext really add up to my accuracy that much? Cause I was hoping that my full BAB will be sufficient to the odd no-gear campaign we re playing.
I am sorry if I do sound oblivious or stupid, but I am afraid I might be both when it comes to such stuff.
I am building a synthesist summoner and chose the Fauchard as my weapon of choice, going for reach (large, biped, evolution houserule, and lunge). I also took combat reflexes and have 16 dext right now, able to do 3 AoO per round. Fauchard is also +1 Keen making it 15-20 x2 Critical.
I am 10 lvl and I am focusing mostly on doing 3 attacks as my full attack (with haste) and then have lots of AoO for control and extra damage. The high crit fauchard allows me to take advantage of these singular precious attacks when I am getting an AoO.
I do want to get an Animal Companion too. Hence I chose eldritch heritage line to get one through Nature/Sylvan bloodline (DM allowed to use sylvan). I also got boon companion and now my pet is good to go. My problem is this. I do a lot of theorycrafting and making many trial characters but never one with an Animal Companion, so excuse my ignorance. But how on earth do you optimize it for damage/tanking? The large Roc has 24 str at my lvl. It's damage is an insignificant 1d6+7 per talon and 1d8+7 with it's bite. That's a sad 32 damage per round if ALL ATTACKS hit. And it's ''to hit'' isn't all that great.
I thought maybe that's not how people play it so I thought about other choices, like going with a Megaloceros or an Elephant mastodon and take improved/greater overrun or bullrush and have the enemies provoking AoO from the Synthesist when they fail their CMDs. Which I don't expect it to happen all that often at this level (although we fight almost always humanoids and Undeads). The funny thing is that when you bullrush the pet doesn't even do damage and it provides a minor movement control to one target.
TL:DR
How do people optimize their pets? Is it damage? Is it through maneuvers? How?
Last question:
Since Bloodmage Initiate and Mage's Tattoo and Spell Specialization gives me +4 CL and I am 9 lvl wizard, my fireball will cap at 10d6.
If I use intensify metamagic:
'' An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels. You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat.''
That means my fireball now is 13d6 right?
And at lvl 11 it will be 15d6? Which will stop there and won't improve anymore. Are all these correct?
I am building a blaster admixture wizard 9/sorcerer 1, and I have a few questions about some feats.
The mage's tattoo (evocation) and bloodmage initiate (evocation) feats say:
''you cast spells from this school of magic at +1 caster level''
Does that mean:
1) I am adding +1 to overcome Spell Resistance?
2) I add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws (reflex in the case of fireball)?
3) I add 1 more dice to my fireball? I am currently 9 lvl wizard and 1 lvl sorcerer. The mage's tattoo will give me one more dice. But then I reach the cap of fireball. Will bloodmage initiate add another dice to that total bringing it up to 11d6 in total? Or it stops at 10 regardless and it just adds 1) and 2) ?
Spell specialization says:
''Select one spell of a school for which you have taken the Spell Focus feat. Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell.''
4) I add again the +2 to overcome Spell Resistance and +2 to the Difficulty class for all saving throws?
5) Does that increase my dice above 10d6 which is the max for fireball? Does it make it 12d6? Or it stops there?
Extra question:
as a 9 lvl wizard and 1 lvl sorcerer, my fireball will be 9d6 or 10d6? The spell description says:
''deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6)''
Caster level equals my levels in all spellcasting classes or just the class I am casting the spell? What's the difference with: class level or character level?
As others have pointed out, focusing exclusively on skills won't do your character any good in combat. And since combat is a significant part of your campaign, it seems rather odd that you chose to hinder your character in such devastating ways.
Indeed the bard gets a lot of skill points and the class is revolving around that quite a lot. Any further investment may be an overkill (like skill focus feats, with the exception of perception perhaps). Maybe you want to be ''the best'' at it? There is nothing wrong with that. And you will probably succeed at that... but what about the other parts of the game?
The bard is a support character that excels at enhancing and buffing others by default. It's fine again if you don't want to do that. There is many ''selfish'' builds out there. But you chose again to not follow that path. The problem is... what do you want to do? Not only in your social interactions during the game, but also during encounters?
This will continue and gradually get worse and worse as the melee and the archer will level up and grow in power (especially offensively). Don't get me started on the wizard. You will be left out from the fun of contributing in combat. I know it doesn't feel good to have your barbarian doing 100 damage while you struggle to hit and hopefully doing 1/4 of that. Nor competing with the reality bending full-caster. Sooner or later you ll want to find a way to define your character during combat. I know this may not seem as crucial in a heavily social campaign, but since combat plays an important role most of the times -and yours is not an exception- you may need to think your possibilities without gimping such a flavourful character.
Refluffing a lot of your abilities helps a lot. I used to play a knowledge kind of sage sorcerer (he was the buffer of our party) character long ago that invested a lot in skills and support but I was using this whole concept as part of the character. Since he was the know it all guy, I made haste (the most iconic buff spell) as: Unlock Knowledge Within, which he was penetrating his friends psyche to plant knowledge he possessed to his comrades minds, further enhancing their understanding of the enemy and the ''winds of magic'' (as she used to call it). Translating to haste.
I am mentioning this because fluffing stuff can have a tremendous influence on your perception of your character and can lead to amazing commitment to your vision of him/her. That way, you can still choose a more offensive or buffing route while still appear as the character you wanted him to be. Your DM seems very flexible, so give this a thought and see how that work's for you.
I also vote for inquisitor, although managing his judgements per day can be a bit tricky if you guys fight a lot. That aside is a spontaneous straightforward secondary melee. You can also play him as an archer. Great flavour and a lot of skills and class features to have him excited.
A second option is Zen Archer monk. Great range fighting (which you guys will appreciate), very beefy for a ranger and very straightforward and SAD. Add Qinggong archetype along with the Zen archer to add more options.
My third vote goes to Alchemist. Preferably melee or even bomber (not suited for many combats). He can play with extracts and make for a very versatile secondary melee. He also has many, maaany skill points.
Last but not least is the Summoner. If you build him a basic pouncing quadruped eidolon you can have a front line tank and incredible damage dealer (so he will have the thrill of rolling the dice) and at the same time a secondary caster on the back that buffs the whole party and throws incredible control spells. Building the eidolon can be a hassle but in combat is really straightforward.
I would also consider full blaster sorcerer (typical wildblooded draconic, primal or orc bloodline) and have him play with blasting and ray spells. Take also useful utility and control buffs and you have a great addition to your group (aoe damage, and cha based and can cover some roles you don't have yet).
by RAW you are not allowed to change its spells.
Most DMs (non-PFS) will allow you to customize it's spell list though, if you give them cookies. Cookies always work with DMs.
Not sure if that was a typo, but when you make a melee attack (with natural weapons or normal weapons) you make an attack roll, which includes your BAB (+13) plus STR mod, let's say its 30 so (+10) and plus size, which assuming you are large you get a -1
Your total attack roll is 13+10-1= +22+1d20 to see if you hit or not.
That said, it seems to me that Manufactured weapons + natural attacks, even with their -2 to hit and only half in str, still does more damage than full natural attacker.
Without any buffs at 20 lvl with 30 str you do:
Greatsword: 3x 2d6+15 (1/5 str for Two Handed) assuming you have haste so the eidolon gets three attacks = 63 average damage
Then you have 7 natural attacks, and assuming they are all claws and have the improved damage evolution and the improved natural attack feat that makes your claws 1d8, now add large and it becomes 2d6, we add 1d6 from energy attacks also:
7x 2d6+5=77 (only half your str since they cound as secondary attacks) + 7x1d6 from energy attacks=21
Total= 63 (GS) + 77 (NA) + 21 (EA) = 161 Damage on Average.
JUST WITH NATURAL ATTACKS:
7x 2d6+10 (full str) = 112 + 7x 1d6=21
Total Damage: 133
Good luck enchanting all these though :P You don't need more than +1 Amulet of the might fist however.
Ofcourse it is expected your eidolon to have a much higher str and extra buffs and bonuses from charging. That was a simple comparison.
As the title says, I am planning to play a character with a lot of skill points but I am not sure where to invest apart from the perception, sense motive, bluff, diplomacy. These are my 4 standards so far.
I assume knowledge arcana is also useful. Any other generic suggestions?
I am playing an archer.
I understand your problem as I am in a similar situation. In most fights everyone just runs all over the place, get hits and cast whatever they can. No one dished out damage and no one could take a beating, and me being a witch was not helpful.
You need to cover as many roles as possible.
My advice is this: Summoner. I know I know... pets. But you can play the summoner without the summons. Focus on the eidolon. You can make it biped two-hand wielding with evolution reach:weapon, lunge and enlarged and go to town with your 20ft reach. She can control the battlefield around you and minimize the damage from the enemies that attack your friends and your self. Power Attack feat is enough to keep her damage competitive. You can focus on defensive and control feats, like combat reflexes feat and reach, for your eidolon and make her the front line (do not underestimate the role of the ''beatstick'' especially in a group like yours). Weapon wielding eidolon requires very few evolutions to be effective and you can focus on defensive and utility ones (there is a lot to choose from). You can even take evolution ''skilled'' and make your eidolon a skill monkey also. Now he is the main damage dealer, the tank and a capable skill monkey.
A pouncing natural attacker with as many attacks as possible is a murder machine at low levels. You can go either way.
The summoner spell list is packed with buffs, control and utility spells. That's powerful as you can stay in the back and provide the ever desired battlefield control and buff your eidolon to a monster damage dealer and tank. Buffs like fire shield and caustic blood allows you to provide extra damage in a passive way. You will never miss crucial utility spells like invisibility, fly and teleport/dimension door either. You are the overall useful utility and buffing caster everyone loves. Did I mention that the Summoner is cha based? Yeah now you are also the party's face.
what you can't do: blasting. healing.
Extra tips:
1) Don't use your summon spells if you don't want to. Focus on feats like: Resilient eidolon, extra evolution etc to enhance your eidolon. Use the Summon Monster SLA's only when you need utility out of combat for example. Half elves have the strongest favourite class bonus for summoners by the way.
2) With very high point buy you can go spirit summoner. The class doesn't need high charisma anyway and you can focus on wisdom and add powerful hexes to add endurance and even more utility to your self. evil eye/misfortune/slumber/chant and my god you are also a mini-witch now that can endure many battles without being afraid not being useful when you run out of spells. You can take ''extra hex'' feat, as summoners don't really need any feats to function apart from summoning ones and since you want to avoid that part and the spirit summoner gives up the summon monsters completely anyway, you can focus getting more hexes and expand your versatility and debuffs.
3) I know you said you don't like pets and stuff, but consider taking: eldritch heritage feat and take arcane bloodline and now you can have a familiar. 7th level you can take Improved Familiar and have a nifty faerie dragon at your side. Faerie dragons cast like a third level sorcerer (which means 3 first level spells 6/day). Most DMs will allow you to customize it's spell list. I have my familiar using his turn on my turn for minimal confusion and tracking. Did I mention faerie dragon has incredible SLAs like greater invisibility? Yup now you got also a mini infiltrator that also has telepathy 100ft and has UMD. Give that sassy dragon a wand. Half elves get the free skill focus feat which is a prerequisite for eldritch heritage feat. Yeah half elves are amazing for this class.
4) expanded arcana is a great feat for the summoner as he has a lot of useful spells but not so many spells known.
5) You can take Life spirit and also have channel positive energy and provide some aoe healing by level 9. Or you can take Heavens spirit and have an extra debuff, some passive buffs like darkvision, permanent endure elements and no need to breathe. Also: Heaven's leap hex from the same spirit seems like something you may want to consider if your friends find themselves in terrible positions during combat. You can be the chessmaster, teleporting them around when they mess up :P
6) Action economy is king in small sized groups. You are all about action economy with the summoner. Also, don't see your role as the buffing dude/dudete. You are two intelligent creatures at once. With my character I am actually the eidolon and I see the caster summoner as my companion. That way I do feel like I am in the heat of the battle as you would feel with a fighter class, but you can also fly and do all kinds of crazy stuff with your evolutions. And if you got bored with attacking stuff to death like most damage dealers, you are also a spellcaster that has hexes that never runs out. Last but not least, Summoners allow fascinating RP dynamics with two connected conscious beings. Go wild!
I am building a vanilla summoner and a Quadruped/pouncing eidolon with natural attacks and I don't know what feats to take for it. Apart from the classic Power Attack and Improved Natural Attack:Claws, what else is there?
Eidolon has 4 feats right now and soon to take his 5th, yet I cannot find an guide or advice on what to do. I guess stuff like Iron Will, Improved initiative etc are ok... but very boring. Lunge and Eldritch claws are two possible choices but they seem so uninteresting. (we rarely ever use reach or DR)
The only thing I thought so far is Intimidating Prowess and Cornugon Smash with an evolution in Intimidate, so I can play with some shaken conditions to spice things up. I thought to take some defensive/tanky feats like Stand Still. I'd rather have something that adds interesting gameplay than flat increase in numbers. I am not too concerned with adding more damage as I am doing by far the most damage in the group.
In this table you can see how many evolution points, feats, natural attacks etc etc, your eidolon has according to its level.
The most basic effective eidolon is quadruped with as many natural attacks as you can. Buff them up with evolutions, while dont forget to take improved natural armor evo and +2 str evolution, energy attacks and other very basic stuff that increases the eidolons offense.
Summoners spell list is packed with buffs and you wont have much to do your self anyway during combat, so your eidolon will be naturally beefed up.
Here is a very basic guide, that doesn't have every available stuff right now, but it will lead you to the right way.
ps: notice his centaur build. A quadruped eidolon with a weapon AND natural attacks. You might find it interesting.
ps2: Large evolution at lvl 8 is A MUST. Drop whatever else and get this. Never look back. Pounce is second.
ps3: half elf favourite class bonus gives extra evolutions. There is a feat for your summoner that increases your eidolons evolutions. (extra evolution feat)
Some extra advice:
Look at the Eldritch heritage feat line. You can through Arcane Bloodline to get a familiar. With improved familiar at 7 lvl, you can increase your action economy significantly. Faerie dragon improved familiar casts as a 3d lvl sorcerer. Most DM's will let you customize his spells. Great for buffing up your eidolon faster.
There is also the Scion of Humanity Aasimiar Lunar Oracle, which, IMO, can get quite cheesy(Like, almost to 3.5e levels of absurdity). The character gets Charisma to AC, Reflex and initiative. He/she also gets an animal companion that levels up FASTER then that of a druid(aasimiar favored class bonus), and access to the entire cleric/oracle spell list AND the entire wizard/sorcerer spell list via the spell paragon surge.''
1) I have a few questions to understand this build. What is the reason you choose scion of humanity? It looks nice on paper, but any particular reason?
2) I understand that through ''Prophetic armor'' Lunar's oracle revelation, you get your CHA to reflex rolls and AC. But the initiative? You take Noble Scion feat or is there another way?`
I build a summoner few days ago and I am planning to show him to my DM for approval. I changed some stuff and I wanted some critique from some veterans if its OP or not. Also if you have some better suggestions to do. I am playing normally an Elf, but we decided to change some racials with Half-elf as they seem to have greater synergy and they are almost identical with the elves anyway. (racial ability +2 cha, skill focus feat, favorite class bonus)
We also did some changes. I decided to give up summon monster SLA's.
I mean, they dont manifest as actual physical creatures, but as phantasms that help me. Not suited for combat. That way I can use their amazing spells without feel like a pokemon master. That means I can still summon them, but only a shadow of them that manifests in my character. He is able in his round to act as he was representing each creature individual. For example: If I summon 2 unicorns, I manifest their power in me. Although they dont appear physically and hence cannot work as meatshield when eidolon goes down, I am able to act as me in my round, and cast a spell from each individual unicorn I have summoned/manifested. (The no summons when eidolon is out, still counts)
HP= 79, AC= 10 + 2 (dext mod) = 12/14 (if eidolon is near through Shield ally class feature)
BAB: 7/2 Initiative: +2 (trait) +2 (dext mod) = 4
fort: 3 + 3 (con mod) = 6/8 (if eidolon is near)
refl: 3 + 2 (dext mod) = 5/7 (if eidolon is near)
will: 7 + 0 (wisd mod) = 7/9 (if eidolon is near)
(+2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and
effects + Immune to magic sleep)
Feats:
0) Skill Focus: Perception (Half elves racial), Cosmopolitan (free feat from my DM) (I got bluff and Perception)
1) Extra Evolution
3) Summon Good Monster
5) Extra Evolution
7) Improved Familiar (Dragon, Faerie)
9) Resilient Eidolon
Traits:
World Traveler (+1 for diplomacy and is a class skill)
Warrior of Old (+2 initiative)
Skills: 2 (base) + 1 (int mod) per level = 30
*Perception: +10 (ranks) +6 (skill focus) feat) +2 (elf racial) +0 (wis mod) +3 class skill = 21
Use Magic device: +5 (ranks) +5 (cha mod) +3 (class skill) = 13 (I didn't go crazy because we are in a very low wealth campaign)
*Bluff: +5 (ranks) +5 (cha mod) +3 (class skill) = 13
Diplomacy: 10 +1 (trait class skill) +5 (cha mod) +3 (class skill) = 19
Because of the lack of summons, I decided to make my eidolon very defensive. Not only my spell choices, but also his build and feat choices are on the defensive/control side, since he is gonna be the only front liner we have (our ranger sucks, seriously, he does like 15 damage at 10 lvl -.-)
To make up for the lack of summons, I got some special bonuses, in the form of feats, for my eidolon to make his weapon wielding build work:
Eidolon:
(Free) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Scythe
(Free) Combat Expertise - A feat tax really. (We gonna skip the 13 int requirement)
(Free) Weapon Focus: Scythe - feat tax but also useful
As you can see, I try with this build to make my Eidolon as defensive as I can to help me and our sorcerer survive. So far we had no front line and we always were close to death. I know I give up a lot of damage by doing that, but our group is not so great, so I didnt wanna go crazy with it and steal their thunder (sorcerer's mostly, and potentially our ranger's). My spell choices only highlight the fact that I wanna keep my eidolon around all the time.
Hence I decided to go that way.
I know its very homebrew-y, but I wanted to know if you guys would approve such build in your games or you find it too bad, or wrong, or OP, or weak, or whatever. Our DM is quite open and he knows me for being a team player. I know also that there is a lot of changes but I wanted to know that even with all those modifications, if it will actually work.
Thanks again.
Btw:
The spells I chose are:
1st lvl)
1 - Enlarge Person
2 - Mage Armor
3 - Grease
4 - Blood Money (I am gonna ask if he allows me to use this one even though its wizard/sorcerer)
5- Compel Hostility
3d level)
1- Wall of Ice
2- Stoneskin (together with blood money perhaps?)
3- Dimension Door
4- Black Tentacles
4th level)
1- Evolution Surge Greater
2- Bull's strength Mass (That's because we don't have any items yet. lol)
Familiar spells: Faerie Dragon (I was able to customize his spells, as he casts as a 3d lvl sorcerer)
- Protection from Evil/Law
- Obscuring Mist
- Vanish
why you need a full level eidolon if you dont plan to use him in combat?
What is you are planning to do during combat if you are not a master summoner and don't wanna use your eidolon in combat?
you want to take advantage of the summon monster SLA's?
If so, then Master Summoner with half level eidolon wont hurt you at all.
Just take the skill evolutions and focus skill: whatever, for its feats.
If its the evolution you wanted (and you will lose half of them if your eidolon is at half level) to take useful tracking stuff like blindsight etc. then I can see that being a problem. But master summoner is a powerhouse on its own already :/
Last question,
Summoner again half elf favourite class bonus it says:
''Add +1/4 to the eidolon’s evolution pool.''
If I am 8 lvl summoner, I need to take this favourite class bonus every single level to take full advantage from it?
Or once at 4 lvl and once at 8th lvl and then use the other 6 levels to take something else? (hit points for example).
Ah, that makes much more sense. Although +1 damage for every 2 lvls is a bit disappointing.
How much time is 1 round? Cause I am 9 lvl now and I wanna make sure how faster I can summon my eidolon and if its combat viable to summon it that way when necessary.
Help me understand how favourite class bonus work.
in the rules it says:
''Instead of receiving an additional skill rank or hit point whenever they gain a level in a Favored Class''
So for example, sorcerer half orc bonus says: ''Add +1/2 to fire spell damage.''
1) Does that mean that if for example you role 30 damage for a fireball, you get to increase it by 1/2? (45 damage?)
2) And if that is so, how does metamagic affects it?
Is the bonus after metamagic applies? For example you roll 80 empowered fireball, does that mean you increase it by 1/2? (120 damage?)
3) Do you have the option to take this favourite class bonus every level? Sounds ridiculous so I probably miss something.
And in the elf summoner class bonus it says:
''The amount of time the summoner must spend to summon his eidolon is reduced by 1 round, to a minimum of 1 round.''
4)Does that mean that you get to reduce the amount of time must spend to summon my eidolon by 1 round flat, or 1 round for every time I get to choose this favourite class bonus? (which I assume I can do that every time I get a level according to the rule I wrote on the top of the thread? So by 10 level how much time do I need to summon my eidolon?
According to rules an eidolon needs a full minute ritual to be summoned. And taking this favourite class bonus from elves, it reduces it for 1 round.
''The Summoner and the Gunslinger are the two classes that are banned most frequently.''
I heard this many times before, but I never really understood why.
Considering that we don't include some of the class annoying archetypes (master summoner, synthesist) and some ridiculous broken eidolons, what's the fuss all about?
You will suffer a lot in a campaign with monsters mostly immune to mind affecting abilities. A lot of powerful spells in the witch spell list is exactly that, mind affecting abilities.
That been said, I advice against disguise hex. hat of disguise is cheap cheap cheap. Charm can be really useful out of combat (so is diplomacy + student of philosophy trait) if there is a lot of roleplaying involved. Keep in mind that charm is also mind affecting hex.
Feats you may want to consider:
1) Split hex/split major hex - as soon as you can qualify for it. A MUST.
2) Improved initiative - going first with a witch if very powerful (like all spellcasters)
3) Accursed hex - almost mandatory in my opinion.
4) Scribe scroll - for a divine/arcane prepared spellcaster with many utility and situational spells is also very powerful. Don't hesitate to seriously consider it if you cant think of anything else or you like the idea to craft.
5) Extra Hex - there is great versatility in hexes, so don't be afraid to take this one either.
Also, check if you like:
1) Ability focus (if your dm is fool enough to let you take this)
2) Improved familiar (great versatility, these little critter use your numbers for his skill checks. Great for delivering touch spells also, scout like no one else, and all sort of shenanigans) check some strong options like the Cacodaemon, Cassisian angel, imp, faerie dragon, lyrakien azata, paracletus, silvanshee. Great great SLA's and out of combat utility. In combat also, some of them.
Since you got almost all the good normal hexes, and you are close to qualify for the major ones, I will mention only them:
1) Ice Tomb - super powerful SoD that targets Fortitude (suck it immune-to-mind-affecting-abilities monsters)
2) Retribution - just read the description. lol
3) Delicious fright - A mind affecting hex also.
4) Agony - nauseated is nothing to laugh at. Not my favourite hex though. Reason is that it allows a save to end the effect every single round.
For 4th lvl spells, you 're heading in a good direction. Both black tentacles and dimension door are powerful. So is confusion. Some others you might want to consider:
Death Ward
Enervation
Locate Creature (very situational, but so useful when you need it)
Ice storm (aoe control, no save)
Divination (out of combat utility)
Phantasmal Killer (strong but dangerous)
Threefold aspect
Solid Fog (control and utility)
Arcane eye (great utility for scouting, but doesnt come that often. You may not need to prepare it everyday though)
You better read some guides to get a general concept how they work.
This is a good general guide:
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1DB6sOfbAzFmKVPgcyLWipTVqvWFjfDSv6v _YiGQb5Yw&pli=1
This one focuses on the hexcrafter magus archetype, powerful and with an emphasis on debuffing:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fSJuL1O4hs15NMk-y4MXbH9D_qt9V7iwhY2y9HD rs74/edit
This one is a step to step guide to show you how spell combat and spellstrike works. Don't skip this. Magus is a complicated class. Make sure you have a general grasp of the rules before you make one.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fSJuL1O4hs15NMk-y4MXbH9D_qt9V7iwhY2y9HD rs74/edit
You will find advice about feats, spells and everything you need to know :)
Another kind response. Thanks again for persisting and trying to help. I do really appreciate it.
You made me seriously reconsider it, as the two other PC in my party are barely optimized. We usually flee from battlefield because we cant keep up. (I am not joking. We are all newbies, and very weak in tactical playing and individual strength. We usually run away). I guess the damage I will be able to put with my two handed eidolon will be enough. (if things go downhill I may just rebuild it to something more appropriate)
Another problem here is the summon monster. I decided to make an agreement with my DM, to let me exchange my summon monsters ability completely, and get 4 domains of my choice (I chose, liberation, healing, Luck/imagination, and Knowledge) and get up to 6 lvl spells at 12 lvl. (at 8 lvl I am now, I have access only up to 4 lvl spells of each domain, 5lvl spells at 10 lvl, and 6th lvl domain spells when I am 12). No higher lvl domain spells later. It stops at 6th lvl.
I can use each of those spells only once a day and no more. No metamagic nothing. I chose utility as we seriously lack and also restoration and healing magic for the same reason.
I guess thats not terrible since we barely have a fight in each session. Maybe two in exceptional cases. Hopefully I wont need those backup summons.
Thanks for the encouraging words.
However, my two handed weapon eidolon doesnt seem to keep close with pouncer natural attacking one, or the 10000 hands/akali builds.
My idea was to make him viable with just one single big weapon but that doesn't seem to be a good choice.
Nor do I agree that it can keep up with an specialized martial combatant.
I wouldn't rely much on me (the summoner), as I am going heavily for utility and mostly buffing.
If my eidolon is large, I have the option to wield both medium and large sized weapons without taking any penalty, correct?
Although Using a large weapon to match my eidolon is suggested for maximum damage.
I went with the scythe. It looks very cool and doesnt seem like a weak weapon (considering I am taking advantage of its insane critical bonuses) and use my reach along with scythe's trip ability and the bodyguard feat I am planning to get. All this to provide front line control to protect the back lines.
The damage for the scythe is listed as 2d4 for a medium weapon. Considering I am planning to use a large biped eidolon, I will use also a large scythe. Does that mean the weapon also moves one step when determine its dice damage?
So my scythe will always do 2d6 right? and if I use enlarge spell in my eidolon and its weapon increases by one step ahead that means my scythe goes to 3d6 per attack. Can anyone confirm this?
The reason the pouncing eidolon is so powerful is because of pounce? or is the natural attacks that are far superior than weapons?
I really wanted an optimized weapon wielding eidolon :/
I guess quadruped eidolon with a reach weapon and reach evo and feats, is not bad right? (assuming that he is wielding a two hand weapon as I imagined)
That way, I get higher dext and can qualify for pounce evolution.
Anyone has any answers to my questions at the beginning? Would help me greatly to have someone explain how does it work.
My eidolon is a biped of 8th lvl and large size. (this is via the large evolution).
I was planning to use a greatsword. But then I came across bastard sword, and dwarven waraxe.
1) Can my large eidolon wield any of those? Does it take any penalty? (if yes, why?) Or should I stick with my greatsword?
2) Also, if my strength is 30, when I roll to confirm if I hit or not (attack roll, right?), I use my BAB (+6) plus my str modifier? (in which case its 6+10=16) plus the d20 dice against enemy's AC?
3) In my damage rolls, I add 1 1/2 str modifier because its a two hand weapon?`Is this also correct?
I never played a non-full spellcaster before, hence I am so oblivious about such basic stuff.
edit: Greatsword is listed under:
(Martial)
Two-Handed Melee Weapons
while Dwarven Waraxe under:
(Exotic)
One-Handed Melee Weapons
Didn't notice that. I guess I cant use a bastard sword instead of greatsword as a two handed weapon. GS seems to do more damage.
what would you guys suggest for maximum damage in for my situation?
(no natural attacks or 10 hands eidolon with a sword in each hand)
I am dealing with a problem in my current campaign. We are a three man party that consists from a two weapon fighting ranger and a sorcerer focusing mostly on blasting.
I am the third member. I was playing a witch till now, and I didnt have any fun with her anymore so I decided to reroll. T
However, we lack everything right now and I really dont know what to play. We have no frontline, and many times me and our sorcerer were near death. The ranger cannot really take a lot of damage as he is not optimized at all. Nor is our sorcerer. They are new in pathfinder (first time in dnd for the sorc and he can barely qualify for an arcane spellcaster with his optimization. He is also a sage sorcerer using his int, so no cha skills, no face party either) and their spells and abilities are all over the place. I understand and respect that, that's why I wanted to play something that can bring balance to the party, but I am not sure how to do that when we will lack healing, face party, frontline, divine spellcasting, skill monkey etc. Not saying all of them are mandatory and so far we didnt do that bad, but you can see already in our 8th lvl that we lack behind.
I was considering a summoner for the frontline eidolon and me as a back line controller buffer to make them shine in battle, while keeping down my eidolon for stealing their thunder.
I thought of playing a melee druid with an animal companion but I am disappointed when I read that they start falling off at later levels, and we are nearly 9 now.
Another idea was an eldritch knight archer that can rain death on enemies and be a part time skill-monkey out of combat and use his utility and control spells to cover as much from the other missing roles.
I know we are not in a video game where you need tank/heal/4 dps, but the more we progress, the more I realize the need for a frontliner, and I deeply miss our ex-player rogue skillmonkey T_T
Indeed it does. But I mention in my post that my DM is willing to change this to 3d lvl divine spells instead of arcane. My elven arcana from ancient lorekeeper oracle archetype, allows me to take some arcane spells anyway and with the paragon surge later, my DM sees it as enough to qualify even without the 3d lvl divine/arcane spells.
I am building a new character and I want some advice. The character is a paladin 2/ oracle 6 so far, and I am planning to go some eldritch knight later to get better BAB without completely skipping my spellcasting.
We made a modification with my DM, to allow me to qualify for EK with 3 lvl divine spells instead of arcane. I am going elf, but I exchanged some bonuses from it with half elf (to get paragon surge cheese).
The character is going to be an archer while using his versatile and defensive spells for out of combat utility and in-combat buffing and control, without overdoing it. My dm trusts me in this.
I want your advices if I am doing it right.
Oracle 6/ Paladin 2
Divine Hunter Paladin:
Elf Favorite class bonus: Add +1/2 hit point to the paladin's lay on hands ability (whether using it to heal or harm).
Aura of good
Detect Evil
Smite evil
Lay on Hands 1/2 paladin lvl + cha mod/day for 1d6
Divine Grace (add cha bonus to saving throws)
Ancient Lorekeeper Oracle
Elf favorite class bonus ''Oracle'' (Add +1/2 to the oracle's level for the purpose of determining the effects of one revelation.) I am adding it to the Wood armor)
Use also Elven Arcana from the archetype to add some extra wizard spells in my spells known.
Mystery = Wood (revelations: Wood Bond (to enhance my bow), Wood Armor +6 from favorite class bonus instead of +4)
Curse = Haunted
What I am aiming with this character is to be decent ranged combatant, providing enough DPR (something we seriously lack with our 3man party), while at the same time be able to provide some defensive spells like healing, restores, and cures from my oracle spell list, and later at 11+ lvl, use wizard/sorcerer spells (via paragon surge, new arcana combo) for extra utility especially out of combat, as we tend to roleplay and solve mysteries much more than actually fighting.
The party is me, an arcane bloodline sorcerer, focusing mostly on blasting and throw area of effects and control, and a melee ranger.
None of them is optimized at all. I recognize the dangers to outshine them completely, but I prefer to lift them with some buffs and aid them in other ways instead of stealing their thunder. My DM knows and trust me with this too.
With my cha based skills I will be able to provide some decent party face abilities while using paladin's diving grace to make me beefy with my saving throws. (something my DM uses a lot too)
I know I am sacrificing a lot of spellcasting, around three levels if I will get also Eldritch Knight, but being able to access both wizard and cleric spell lists even for up to 7 lvl spells is great I think for what I want to do. I found most really high lvl spells not fun for anyone.
My initial plan was to go wizard 1(with divination sla to qualify for 3d lvl arcane spells for eldritch knight)/eldritch knight 5/arcane archer 2
(the all martial weapons proficiency requirement is not necessary as long as I keep my elf bow proficiency and use always a bow)
So here we are, Let me know with what you guys think. Any suggestions? something you would like to add? What should I avoid or change is always welcome.
ps: I was considering taking the waves or metal or ancestors or battle mystery or the natures mystery for the animal companion. I never played a melee or archer type before and I dont know how it works with BAB or if its too low or if I will hinder it if I dont choose wood and the wood bond revelation. Not that I know exactly all those +1 enchantments and what they do but it seems wise to have a potent weapon, considering I am gonna spent most my rounds full attacking with my bow.
