i love paladins but their 20th level ability actually significantly weakens smite evil... go pally 19/oracle 1 with lore or nature for the AC boost
I have to believe most GM's would make that Banishment an optional effect - and the additional DR and maximized healing is too good to pass up - Lay on Hands has got to be one of the most under-rated abilities in the game. I'd take it over Smite if I were forced to choose.
Fortunately I'm not. :)
i love paladins but their 20th level ability actually significantly weakens smite evil... go pally 19/oracle 1 with lore or nature for the AC boost
It doesn't specify how DC is calculated.
Am I to take that it means the paladin auto banishes any evil outsider under 44 HD?
Since you have a rod (or a Masters staff of Necromancy) and true a Paladin would be immune to that... guess the better option for dealing with them is trapping them in a Mage's Magnificent Enclosure with shrunken lava pits or suicide Explosive Rune carrying Summons or casting a Word of Chaos at CL 27 to automatically Stun, Confuse and Deafen you, while having a Quickened Summon Coup de grace you. No matter how you slice it though, a caster has a number of no save ways to off you in a single round with casual ease.
Um... THAT'S casual ease?
I'd be interested seeing all of that take place in a single round, as you say. I don't think you know enough about Wizards OR all of the other classes they could 'off in a single round with casual ease' to be making these kinds of statements.
Okay, let's say I'm a 20th level Paladin. You need to trap me in a Mage's Magnificent Enclosure with a shrunken lava pit in a single round.
And... GO.
I have an easy paladin kill
Timestop + reverse gravity + gate to plane of negative energy
Bam! Paladin dead!
i love paladins but their 20th level ability actually significantly weakens smite evil... go pally 19/oracle 1 with lore or nature for the AC boostIt doesn't specify how DC is calculated.
Am I to take that it means the paladin auto banishes any evil outsider under 44 HD?
The Paladin's level counts as the caster level - would it be wrong to assume you use the Paladin's Charisma since that's his primary casting attribute?
So 10 + 6 (spell level for cleric) + 7 (let's say 24 Charisma) + 2 (hated object x2) for a DC of 25? Does that sound right?
I'd probably allow the Paladin to add the weapon's total enhancement bonus in lieu of the 'hated object' bonus...
Well then let me explain, since you don't seem to know about high level combat.
My usual selection of Spells that I'm immune to from Aroden's Spellbane (cast yesterday, 36 hours remaining) render the area around me immune to Mage's Magnificent Enclosure (this is important). So here's the action load for the turn.
Standard Action - Teleport 10 ft. away from you (close enough to catch you in the 10 foot radius of Enclosure).
Swift Action - Cast Mage's Magnificent Enclosure (thanks to Master's Staff of Necromancy) Note that it is presently suppressed by my Aroden's Spellbane.
Free action - drop bundle of (lets say 50) cloth form shrunken lava (cast lets go with 40 days ago).
End Turn - Immediately after end of turn, cast Feather Fall, which triggers my Contingent Teleport.
Your paladin is now trapped in an antimagic field and taking 20d6 lava damage. Good luck with those Walls of Force, when you have no magic abilities! (Note if you are a race that has Ex fire resistance, shrunken clothes of acid are used instead.)
I actually don't need to use my contingency as a I have a way to get a readied action teleport that doesn't use my action economy, but I like to keep some tricks up my sleeve.
i love paladins but their 20th level ability actually significantly weakens smite evil... go pally 19/oracle 1 with lore or nature for the AC boostIt doesn't specify how DC is calculated.
Am I to take that it means the paladin auto banishes any evil outsider under 44 HD?
The Paladin's level counts as the caster level - would it be wrong to assume you use the Paladin's Charisma since that's his primary casting attribute?
So 10 + 6 (spell level for cleric) + 7 (let's say 24 Charisma) + 2 (hated object x2) for a DC of 25? Does that sound right?
I'd probably allow the Paladin to add the weapon's total enhancement bonus in lieu of the 'hated object' bonus...
It doesn't say what attribute to use for the DC and the spell they reference is not on the paladin's list. The ability is also supernatural which means no SR.
It also says the outsider is subject to the effect. I believe it implies no saving throw.
i love paladins but their 20th level ability actually significantly weakens smite evil... go pally 19/oracle 1 with lore or nature for the AC boostIt doesn't specify how DC is calculated.
Am I to take that it means the paladin auto banishes any evil outsider under 44 HD?
The Paladin's level counts as the caster level - would it be wrong to assume you use the Paladin's Charisma since that's his primary casting attribute?
So 10 + 6 (spell level for cleric) + 7 (let's say 24 Charisma) + 2 (hated object x2) for a DC of 25? Does that sound right?
I'd probably allow the Paladin to add the weapon's total enhancement bonus in lieu of the 'hated object' bonus...
It doesn't say what attribute to use for the DC and the spell they reference is not on the paladin's list. The ability is also supernatural which means no SR.
It also says the outsider is subject to the effect. I believe it implies no saving throw.
That's interesting...
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Well then let me explain, since you don't seem to know about high level combat.
My usual selection of Spells that I'm immune to from Aroden's Spellbane (cast yesterday, 36 hours remaining) render the area around me immune to Mage's Magnificent Enclosure (this is important). So here's the action load for the turn.
Standard Action - Teleport 10 ft. away from you (close enough to catch you in the 10 foot radius of Enclosure).
Swift Action - Cast Mage's Magnificent Enclosure (thanks to Master's Staff of Necromancy) Note that it is presently suppressed by my Aroden's Spellbane.
Free action - drop bundle of (lets say 50) cloth form shrunken lava (cast lets go with 40 days ago).
End Turn - Immediately after end of turn, cast Feather Fall, which triggers my Contingent Teleport.
Your paladin is now trapped in an antimagic field and taking 20d6 lava damage. Good luck with those Walls of Force, when you have no magic abilities! (Note if you are a race that has Ex fire resistance, shrunken clothes of acid are used instead.)
I actually don't need to use my contingency as a I have a way to get a readied action teleport that doesn't use my action economy, but I like to keep some tricks up my sleeve.
So it takes you between 36 hours and 40 days and a truckload of magical items to put together a 1-round combo, presuming of course you know everything that's going to happen ahead of time? Come on, I think you can do a little better than that...
Listen, I'm not arguing the superiority of a full caster over a full martial at 20th level, that's common knowledge... but by the same token, a 1st level martial can generally walk over to a 1st level caster and shove something pointy up his arse as well. I've been playing for role-playing games for 30 years now and never have I played in a campaign where everyone was running around at 20th level the entire time... and wouldn't want to either. Bleh.
No, in my experience the vast majority of play takes place before 12th level and since there's no way to know when any particular campaign is going to take place, when a question like 'who's the most powerful' comes up, I have to think they're asking levels 1-20, not just at 20th level after they've bought lots of crap and had days or weeks to prepare for a theoretical 1-up face-off.
Different strokes for different folks, but the kind of post 20th level theory-crafting shown above just seems silly to me. The game is about great characters, great story and great moments - all shared with other like-minded players... not 'oh yeah, well 40 days before we even fought I did 'X' and 'Y' so now you can't do anything so HA!'. That got old back when I was playing cowboys and indians and discovered the fruitlessness of I-got-you-No-you-didn't.
well... if that's true, and outsiders are automatically banished, that would change my opinion on the quality of that power.
Well then let me explain, since you don't seem to know about high level combat.
My usual selection of Spells that I'm immune to from Aroden's Spellbane (cast yesterday, 36 hours remaining) render the area around me immune to Mage's Magnificent Enclosure (this is important). So here's the action load for the turn.
Standard Action - Teleport 10 ft. away from you (close enough to catch you in the 10 foot radius of Enclosure).
Swift Action - Cast Mage's Magnificent Enclosure (thanks to Master's Staff of Necromancy) Note that it is presently suppressed by my Aroden's Spellbane.
Free action - drop bundle of (lets say 50) cloth form shrunken lava (cast lets go with 40 days ago).
End Turn - Immediately after end of turn, cast Feather Fall, which triggers my Contingent Teleport.
Your paladin is now trapped in an antimagic field and taking 20d6 lava damage. Good luck with those Walls of Force, when you have no magic abilities! (Note if you are a race that has Ex fire resistance, shrunken clothes of acid are used instead.)
I actually don't need to use my contingency as a I have a way to get a readied action teleport that doesn't use my action economy, but I like to keep some tricks up my sleeve.
So it takes you between 36 hours and 40 days and a truckload of magical items to put together a 1-round combo, presuming of course you know everything that's going to happen ahead of time? Come on, I think you can do a little better than that...
Listen, I'm not arguing the superiority of a full caster over a full martial at 20th level, that's common knowledge... but by the same token, a 1st level martial can generally walk over to a 1st level caster and shove something pointy up his arse as well. I've been playing for role-playing games for 30 years now and never have I played in a campaign where everyone was running around at 20th level the entire time... and wouldn't want to either. Bleh.
No, in my experience the vast majority of play takes place before 12th level and...
Well getting 50 Shrunken items is like 1 day in my Fast Time demiplane... which is like half a day real time. The problem with casting is that you can compound your power thanks to long duration spell effects. There's no reason to make 50 Shrunken items every day, just some days so they'll be available. This is especially true of Explosive Runes since they last indefinitely. You can also use you r Simulacrums spell slots for these kindas of effects, which fress you up to make more Simulacrums.
And of course I can do better then that. Heck the other two ways I listed are even quicker.
Also... A level 1 Dual-Cursed Aasimar Lunar Oracle is pretty likely to beat a 1st level Fighter, since you have two bodies to work with. So even at low levels, the fighter is kinda of out of luck here. I'm recommending this build precisely because it is extremely powerful at *all* levels.
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Sometimes I forget just how... diverse... gamers tend to be.
Yup, its weird realizing that most people actually believe that martial = good at low level / caster = bad at low level, when that hasn't been true since 3.0. I mean sure people on the forums know better, but you have to remember that we don't make up the majority of people playing the game and even then some people on here believe that things like healing in combat are action efficient, or that treat spells as something that will run out past 5th level.
Heck some people even believe the Rogue isn't underpowered! I mean can you imagine?
Pistolero/Mysterious Stranger gunslinger. Take that to 20 with alchemical paper cartridges and go to town with a double barrel pistol you can fire 12 times/round with no chance of misfire. Double statting dex and charisma to each bullet fired. It's cheesy as anything else but it's hilarious to watch your gm's eyes bug out the first time you hit the triple digits for one bullet on a crit.
Inquisitor15/guns5 + named bullet = 5k + dmg
5k+ damage? How does that work out?
Inquisitor15/guns5 + named bullet = 5k + dmg5k+ damage? How does that work out?
Pick Guns Musket Master 5/ Inquisitor 15
See all the bonus damage that this class can get, use destruction domain with inquisitor. Now buy a double-barred musket with all the bonus it can has. Do the math. Now multiple each damage you use named bullet.
(use Litany of Righteousness if you can for double the damage)
Um... you do know that Named Bullet only works on a single piece of ammunition, so it only works on a single attack... right?
Yes, but a named bullet has duration 10min/lvl. If you extend you can have a named bullet for 5 hours. Make some named bullets before you enter the dungeon, the chance you have to find a creature of the type you choose is 120%
I'm not sure about all 5, but I have to say Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge has to be one. Besides early entry from SLAs, if you use the Esoteric Training rules from Inner Sea Magic, you can get level 9 Wizard and Cleric spells.
With the Spell Synthesis ability that means you can cast Wish and Miracle at the same time; and if casting the two strongest spells in the game simultaneously isn't an 'I win' button, I don't know what is.
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worth noting for melee monks posted here:
monks got a buff (in a backhanded way) in magical marketplace: the clockwork prosthetic grants huge bonuses to things (arms give +10 against disarm against held objects, legs give +4 CMD vs trip and bull rush. these bonuses apply PER LIMB, meaning a +20 to disarm them of a two-handed object and +8 vs trip and bull rush, as well as 2x overhead lift, and 3x off-the-ground lift), is relatively cheap at 6400g (each, personally i'd just replace both arms and legs), and can be enchanted normally as a weapon with any effect that works on an unarmed strike.
this frees up your neck slot from that moneysucking AoMF--it'll just cost you an arm and/or a leg!
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worth noting for melee monks posted here:
monks got a buff (in a backhanded way) in magical marketplace: the clockwork prosthetic grants huge bonuses to things (arms give +10 against disarm against held objects, legs give +4 CMD vs trip and bull rush. these bonuses apply PER LIMB, meaning a +20 to disarm them of a two-handed object and +8 vs trip and bull rush, as well as 2x overhead lift, and 3x off-the-ground lift), is relatively cheap at 6400g (each, personally i'd just replace both arms and legs), and can be enchanted normally as a weapon with any effect that works on an unarmed strike.
this frees up your neck slot from that moneysucking AoMF--it'll just cost you an arm and/or a leg!
That's.... a *HUGE* boon in some ways. AoMF already costs twice as much as a weapon of an equivalent weapon, so a Monk could, potentially, enchant each arm with a different enchantment. Why would he do this? Because he can make all of his attacks with a single arm.
So he could have something like a +3 Bane weapon on one arm, and a +2 Holy weapon on the other. Mix and match as he needs against different enemies.
I don't own the book myself, but could you answer whether or not the arms are considered 'weapons' or actual limbs? If they are weapons, then the Monk can't use them (not proficient, not a Monk weapon). If they are treated as limbs, then the Monk can use them as per normal unarmed strikes.
Ugh, really wish my local game store carried the book now. :(
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as far as i can see they're treated as actual limbs (so not applicable to sunder or disarm), they just cost money, require a fort save to install (hilariously easy for most monks), and can be enchanted since they're metal and junk.
also due to the location they're made/installed/widely used in, they *might* function even in antimagic fields. though that's more implied than outright stated (so shouldn't be taken too seriously)
gimme a sec to paste the text for it.
EDIT:
CLOCKWORK PROSTHESIS
PRICE
6,400 GP
WEIGHT 25 lbs.
Accidents are common in the City of
Smog, and in a place where healing
magic is distrusted at best and
haphazard at worst, amputation is
often the only remedy for a mangled
hand or smashed leg. For those
who can afford them, clockwork
prostheses-miraculous metallic extremities fused with a
small amount of primal magic-offer an elegant solution to
missing limbs.
Once purchased, a clockwork prosthesis is attached to the
area where a limb once was-a prosthesis can't be added in
addition to an already existing limb. Only humanoid creatures
can equip themselves with clockwork prostheses, which must
be installed by a trained prosthesis merchant. As a clockwork
prosthesis is installed (a process that takes no less than 1
hour), the bearer must succeed at a DC 18 Fortitude save or
the prosthesis doesn't take hold. Either way, the bearer takes
2 points of Constitution damage from the surgery. Clockwork
prostheses commonly come in two types-arms and legs.
Clockwork Arm: A clockwork arm allows its bearer to lift up
to 1 -1 /2 times his maxi m u m load over his head. A humanoid
with two clockwork arms can lift up to twice his maximum load
over his head. In addition, a clockwork arm allows its bearer
to deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with an
unarmed strike and provides a + 10 bonus to its bearer's CMD
against attempts to disarm a weapon held in that hand. For
the appropriate price, a clockwork a rm can be enchanted with
any weapon special ability so long as the ability can be applied
to unarmed attacks.
Clockwork Leg: A clockwork leg allows its bearer to lift up
to 2-1 /2 times his maximum load off the ground (instead of
double). A humanoid with two clockwork legs can lift up to 3
times his maximum load off the ground and stagger around
with it. In addition, each installed clockwork leg grants its
bearer a + 4 bonus to CMD against trip and bull rush attempts.
The clockwork prostheses detailed here are only the
most common types of clockwork prostheses. Other, more
specialized clockwork prostheses capable of transforming into
firearms, pinning opponents, and even channeling magical
energy are also rumored to exist.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
COST 3,200 GP
Craft Wondrous Item, bull's strength, regenerate, creator must
have 8 ranks i n Craft (clockwork)
of note:
-even if it isn't counted as a limb for some reason (not mentioned in this that i see), it specifically calls out that you can make unarmed strikes with it.
-they're not listed as limited like an AoMF, meaning your endgame would be a +5 holy whateveryouwant CLOCKWORK FIST OF JUSTICE
-brilliant energy may cause some ickyness, since said limb would phase through objects, meaning no opening doors with that hand, walking on that leg, etc. for those enchanted with it.
you COULD reach through a wall/floor/cieling and grab organic things with it (like enemies, for instance), so that might be useful.
eldritch knight: Trapper Ranger 1/Wizard 5 (teleportation)/EK10/AA4 is the most powerful character you can play.
...
I am curious about this guy. Have you played him all the way or is it a level 20 construction. I ask because he seem to me to be signicantly behind the specialists all the way. And he also seem to be quite MAD. And if i am wrong in the stuff i just said wouldent divination(forsigth) be a better School?
Teleportation School will give him a swift action teleport which is a bit like a form of mini pounce although given the low wizard level you cannot go far.I am curious about this guy. Have you played him all the way or is it a level 20 construction. I ask because he seem to me to be signicantly behind the specialists all the way. And he also seem to be quite MAD. And if i am wrong in the stuff i just said wouldent divination(forsigth) be a better School?eldritch knight: Trapper Ranger 1/Wizard 5 (teleportation)/EK10/AA4 is the most powerful character you can play.
...
i thought that didnt work with the DDervish feats, since it was like the shadowdancers "its totally DimDoor but not ACTUALLY DimDoor, so no dervishing for you"
i thought that didnt work with the DDervish feats, since it was like the shadowdancers "its totally DimDoor but not ACTUALLY DimDoor, so no dervishing for you"Teleportation School will give him a swift action teleport which is a bit like a form of mini pounce although given the low wizard level you cannot go far.I am curious about this guy. Have you played him all the way or is it a level 20 construction. I ask because he seem to me to be signicantly behind the specialists all the way. And he also seem to be quite MAD. And if i am wrong in the stuff i just said wouldent divination(forsigth) be a better School?eldritch knight: Trapper Ranger 1/Wizard 5 (teleportation)/EK10/AA4 is the most powerful character you can play.
...
this
An even if he can get the GM to buy it with the DD feats it will be. Even more feats he will not use to actually be a good archer or caster. It is bassically a character that can do almost what 3 focused characters 3 levels below him can do. Exept he can only do one of the things.I can see the anti magic field on a stick is a Nice trick but what keeps the baddie from moving out of the anti magic field and send a Spell in return?
For overall combat utility (damage, battlefield control, etc.) over an entire campaign, it's hard to beat some variation (including multiclass/prestige class progressions) of: Cleric, Druid, Oracle, Sorcerer, Witch, or Wizard.
i thought that didnt work with the DDervish feats, since it was like the shadowdancers "its totally DimDoor but not ACTUALLY DimDoor, so no dervishing for you"Teleportation School will give him a swift action teleport which is a bit like a form of mini pounce although given the low wizard level you cannot go far.I am curious about this guy. Have you played him all the way or is it a level 20 construction. I ask because he seem to me to be signicantly behind the specialists all the way. And he also seem to be quite MAD. And if i am wrong in the stuff i just said wouldent divination(forsigth) be a better School?eldritch knight: Trapper Ranger 1/Wizard 5 (teleportation)/EK10/AA4 is the most powerful character you can play.
...
this
An even if he can get the GM to buy it with the DD feats it will be. Even more feats he will not use to actually be a good archer or caster. It is bassically a character that can do almost what 3 focused characters 3 levels below him can do. Exept he can only do one of the things.
I can see the anti magic field on a stick is a Nice trick but what keeps the baddie from moving out of the anti magic field and send a Spell in return?
Drop one level of Wiz and pick up a level of Dervish of Dawn Bard. Then you get Dervish Dance for free and have those feats to spend elsewhere. With Esoteric Training from Inner Sea Magic you'd still get level 9 spells; with Magical Knack you'd still have a CL of 20, for a net power loss of 0.
Drop one level of Wiz and pick up a level of Dervish of Dawn Bard. Then you get Dervish Dance for free and have those feats to spend elsewhere. With Esoteric Training from Inner Sea Magic you'd still get level 9 spells; with Magical Knack you'd still have a CL of 20, for a net power loss of 0.i thought that didnt work with the DDervish feats, since it was like the shadowdancers "its totally DimDoor but not ACTUALLY DimDoor, so no dervishing for you"Teleportation School will give him a swift action teleport which is a bit like a form of mini pounce although given the low wizard level you cannot go far.I am curious about this guy. Have you played him all the way or is it a level 20 construction. I ask because he seem to me to be signicantly behind the specialists all the way. And he also seem to be quite MAD. And if i am wrong in the stuff i just said wouldent divination(forsigth) be a better School?eldritch knight: Trapper Ranger 1/Wizard 5 (teleportation)/EK10/AA4 is the most powerful character you can play.
...
this
An even if he can get the GM to buy it with the DD feats it will be. Even more feats he will not use to actually be a good archer or caster. It is bassically a character that can do almost what 3 focused characters 3 levels below him can do. Exept he can only do one of the things.
I can see the anti magic field on a stick is a Nice trick but what keeps the baddie from moving out of the anti magic field and send a Spell in return?
I was refering to the dimensional door feat chain.
And i must admit that i doubt a lot of folks are playing with that part on the inner sea magic. At least i would give any one showing up with it at my table, the sceptic look.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And i must admit that i doubt a lot of folks are playing with that part on the inner sea magic. At least i would give any one showing up with it at my table, the sceptic look.
It's from Inner Sea Magic page 22. Basically you can get +1 bonus to your caster level essentially effortlessly, and +3 to 1 class / +1 to another with some leg work. You gain fame by passing knowledge checks, deeds, or whatever your DM throws at you:Eclectic Training (5 Fame): Guilds often require members to master and train in different subjects. When your Fame score in a guild reaches
5, choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you increase
your effective caster level in that class (including the number of spells you know and can cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to
your total Hit Dice. Single-classed spellcasters should still pick a class to which this bonus applies, since this bonus is retroactive.Esoteric Training (35 Fame): The bonus to caster level you gain from Eclectic Training increases to +3 (but is still limited by your total Hit Dice). You may select a second spellcasting class to gain a +1 bonus to effective caster level.
Not too bad, and surely someone who has earned the right to become a mythic hero would already be turning heads at their social club. ;)
The game has had fame rules for ages; and if the GM doesn't like it, make them jump through more hoops to earn it. But everyone complained about multi-class casters being a trap, they gave a way around it that you have to earn and people reject it. I really just don't understand.
And i must admit that i doubt a lot of folks are playing with that part on the inner sea magic. At least i would give any one showing up with it at my table, the sceptic look.** spoiler omitted **
The game has had fame rules for ages; and if the GM doesn't like it, make them jump through more hoops to earn it. But everyone complained about multi-class casters being a trap, they gave a way around it that you have to earn and people reject it. I really just don't understand.
I think i undestand the system. But i dont undestand the need to have yet another point system that can make the characters powerfull. This time it is not experience but Fame that makes him a better wizard? It if fine that folks use it but it seems like a ill concived addon to me.
This time it is not experience but Fame that makes him a better wizard? It if fine that folks use it but it seems like a ill concived addon to me.
Doesn't actually make a wizard a better wizard. Helps a wizard catch up if he dipped, which would actually make him a weaker wizard.
This time it is not experience but Fame that makes him a better wizard? It if fine that folks use it but it seems like a ill concived addon to me.Doesn't actually make a wizard a better wizard. Helps a wizard catch up if he dipped, which would actually make him a weaker wizard.
exep that the stuff he got from his dip( say cross 1 level cross blooded sorcerer, and 2 monk levels or if he is a sorcerer a havens oracle and 2 paladin levels) is now not really a sacrifice any more.
I can totally see this kind of stuff used in games but it is not very clever game design IMOP.I like the idea of a Fame system but i dont think it should give the same stuff tha top does.
Welll... even if your caster level catches up, your spell level is still behind.
Welll... even if your caster level catches up, your spell level is still behind.
yes, had that been the case then ok. But it is not:(
With this stuff you get spells pr Day also.Edit: look in the spoiler i respondent to.
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Right, you can dip 3 levels into something else and essentially lose nothing. If you have a lenient GM you can dip 5 with Magical Knack and still essentially lose nothing.
With the recent change to SLAs you could qualify for Mystic Theurge at level 4 and end up with Cleric 2/Wiz 1/MT 10/Wiz 5/Cleric 2 and end up with a caster level of 17 in one class and 19 in the other with Magical Knack.
A Fighter 1 / Wizard 1 / Rogue 1 / EK 10/ AT 7 build would end up with a BAB of +14/+9/+4 which is only one less than a 20th level Rogue.
Heck they'd still be able to cast level 9 spells at 20 even without Esoteric training...and they'd get it at level 17 with it! Nearly as good a Rogue, nearly as good a Wizard, and a passable Fighter. Not bad at all.
If it were a Dragon Disciple instead you could still go Aasimar Fighter 1 / Sorcerer 1 / EK 10 / DD 8 and (with Esoteric Training and Magical Knack) end up with 9th level spells as a 20th level caster and a BAB of +18/+13/+8/+3 not to mention 11 levels of d10 HD and 8 levels of d12.
Long story short, if you are willing to put in the leg work you can nearly completely nullify the penalty for multi-classing as a character.
This is a tiny bit off topic, but since we are talking about powerful characters, getting 3 free caster levels should be part of the conversation.
There is also the Scion of Humanity Aasimiar Lunar Oracle, which, IMO, can get quite cheesy(Like, almost to 3.5e levels of absurdity). The character gets Charisma to AC, Reflex and initiative. He/she also gets an animal companion that levels up FASTER then that of a druid(aasimiar favored class bonus), and access to the entire cleric/oracle spell list AND the entire wizard/sorcerer spell list via the spell paragon surge.''
1) I have a few questions to understand this build. What is the reason you choose scion of humanity? It looks nice on paper, but any particular reason?
2) I understand that through ''Prophetic armor'' Lunar's oracle revelation, you get your CHA to reflex rolls and AC. But the initiative? You take Noble Scion feat or is there another way?`
Vanilla Druid at level 1 thru 20. They aren't the best at damage, they have an ok-ish spell list, Summon Nature's Ally is inferior to Summon Monster, and yet they play well with others without even trying- no need of certain feats or focus. Wild Shape, which now includes elementals, just offers crazy variety of utility. Other full casters are perhaps better at damage if that's the criteria, but in just about every melee and non-melee encounter a Druid has something big to offer.
There is also the Scion of Humanity Aasimiar Lunar Oracle, which, IMO, can get quite cheesy(Like, almost to 3.5e levels of absurdity). The character gets Charisma to AC, Reflex and initiative. He/she also gets an animal companion that levels up FASTER then that of a druid(aasimiar favored class bonus), and access to the entire cleric/oracle spell list AND the entire wizard/sorcerer spell list via the spell paragon surge.''
1) I have a few questions to understand this build. What is the reason you choose scion of humanity? It looks nice on paper, but any particular reason?
2) I understand that through ''Prophetic armor'' Lunar's oracle revelation, you get your CHA to reflex rolls and AC. But the initiative? You take Noble Scion feat or is there another way?`
Scion of Humanity allows you to take human only feats. Racial Heritage (Half Elf) is a human only feat that you need before you can make use of Paragon Surge.
Yes Noble Scion of War is giving Charisma to Initiative.
Going back to paragon surge, are you interpreting the addition of the spell as permanent? It seems to me you would lose access to the spell you acquired once the duration of surge is up...so you are constantly casting two spells to get one from another list. Forgive me if this is laid out somewhere and i am asking a dumb question....but I don't see how temp access grants a permanent effect.
In combat, Diviner level 20, all 5 characters, you need actions to win fights and 5 time stops at maximum possible initiative is gonna win.
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I'd like to throw in the Kensai Magus, for several reasons:
The BEST initiative in the game, the Kensai will ALWAYS go first at level 20.
Through the dimensional dervish feat chain, he'd have the mobility needed to close gaps and deal damage within the first round, unlike most other melee combatants.
Ranged combatants would struggle dealing with fickle winds, obtainable through being a samsaran.
Has really high AC, and touch AC, and has mirror image, blur, and displacement to deal with anyone trying to hit him.
With a couple feats improving the frostbite chain, he'll leave opponets fatigued, shaken, sickened, entangled, flat footed, and possibly dazed and frightened with 1-2 hits.
Against casters, he need only get close to lock them down from spell casting, due to lingering pain (one hit can inflict a DC 70+ concentration check).
He's not perfect, but he's a very strong candidate, especially if you wanted to have someone tank in your group (Kensai does great at evasion tanking, due to high AC and spells such as mirror image).
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I'd love to see some of these fully fleshed out.
