Laki7z's page

PossibleCabbage wrote:

One thing about the familiar issue is that I'm sure you can construct a familiar that is useful using the existing familiar abilities, but if you have an idea about what your familiar is and what they're like then it might be difficult to make that familiar useful without changing that concept.

Like if your familiar is literally something you wear, then you pretty much are just getting the extra focus point, spell slot, and cantrip and calling that a day.

The familiar is useful. It's not a net negative. Extra focus points and spells are nice.

It's forgettable. When I have a player who forgets he has a familiar and has done so for nearly every witch since he tried his faerie dragon in battle, it makes it seem like an unnecessary class feature. It seems familiar should do something more to make it so that if you forget them, it would feel like you lost something.

If a caster forgot his spells, he would feel badly. If a barbarian forgot their rage, they would feel badly. If a rogue forgets his sneak attack, he would feel badly. But if a witch forgets their familiar, they feel no loss of performance.

That makes a familiar seem like some tacked on feature that doesn't have a real effect.

Isn't this thread the proof that people do feel a loss about forgetting their familiar.

Familiars have had too long a tradition to just be there as a passive boon, but pf2 mechanics tried to change that into something more active, and perhaps more engaging.

But I have to say that when the illusion of choice is so clear, it's not well designed (lvl 2 feat choices).
First lesson should be free, later could be feats, similar to domains for cloistered clerics

Just to have it said, something (evil) witches can do effectively. They can send in their familiar and cast final sacrifice, the next day, the familiar is back!

I'd prol allow chaotic req instead if the witch knows the familiar is comming back and the Patron said it's ok.

Witch have some flavour around it people like, but comparing inspire courage for bards and witches cantrip hexes, we can see what cantrip was made better. Still, single action cantrips should not be looked down upon and spells such as wilding words feel like a good place to flavour that the animal (or plant etc.) just avoids attacking the witch.

I can hope for good familiar abilities as all the balance went in to the familiar in addition to the hex cantrip.

The playtest is what led to lessons become feats, they were a feature at first

It isn't necessarily money you a offering - the gold cost of a ritual is the cost of materials required for a ritual. This probably includes fancy candles, little statues, herbs, incense, animal sacrifices, etc.

It's not like you are just piling up a heap of gold and praying it away.

Historically, this was pretty standard in religious rites before the advent of Christianity (which instead just asks for money).

In the case of Abadar, it probably is just a lump of money *joke*.

(This part have nothing to do with you Tendrils)
But I really like the idea to fit the cost to the deity. Besmara wants looted money dumped in unreachable water, Abadar might want investment in trade or their guard force + taking a fee for himself, sarenrae to donate and spend time with those who needs it, Norgorber in poison, dumped around the city, etc.

Comitting anathema should not just be a "sidequest" and be forgiven but it could solidly be a part of the whole thing. Comitting anathema should be hard to do and seen as something extreemly hurtful to the deity, such as raising undead as a pharasma cleric, even if you just allow it passively.

Just imagine being betrayed, would you even speak to the one who betrayed you?

There so much of each saying the same thing over and over. The current system is balanced in the way pf2 likes it's balance. Keeping stuff that are harder actually harder, but removes sillines as climbing up a rope and fail. As I have played for quiet sometime, I can say I am surprised how often assurance helps in certain situations.

I even decided that if something is fast, not difficult to do and that PC have the perfect assurance, I won't even bother them asking for a roll, just saying "your assurance makes you know this or you are capable to this". This includes craft check to see if a bridge is walkable, identifiyng striking weapons when you are lvl 6, but at times when failure matters, I ofc ask players to choose if they use assurance or not. There are so many hidden good combos out there and players will find them, like assured glad hand check.

It's alot easier when you start playing than theorycraft the restrictions. It might not work sometimes, but most of the time, it will work. Like a Cayden champion crying over spilled ale, trying to save as much as possible, then if the one who spilled your ale is acting like a bully, you know that is his choice, so you punch him and the tavern brawl follows...

Champions are alot of fun and full of flavour
Fighters are blank canvases to be painted by its creator

Thank god this is a roleplaying game and not a combat simulator

It's like other classes won't get gunfeats according to some. There's alot of playable ways and reload weapons could just be added flexibility for some players. Some like the "gamble" if they are going to get 1 shot as investigators and rogues might use before going in melee. I am happy to see the way it goes and wish to see different support for different classes. There still is playability for the fighter and guns, as they gett heavy armour and point blank stance. Ranger will get precision and versatile. When versatile B affects, it does alot. Funny thing is more and more, I believe that bows should be nerfed (composite if not all bows should get smaller deadly die as example, dd10 are really rare in the first place).

Bows can even outperform melee with right builds as it stands.

Higher burst of damage have its own benefits vs high total damage.

Put firearm ace on rangers (most probably happening if not combined with crossbow ace)
use hunters aim, take running reload and you get the damage dealer. I am excited to see the final result. Remember that even bows and swords require feats to be optimal

Boy, did this escalate. I like that most agree on firearm ace.

Just gonna make a comment that I like the fatal trait on guns.

If you dislike it, use the blunderbuss

Giving all reload weapons +1 or 2 circumstance bonus might be a good balance allaround, maybe even per reload trait (making heavy crossbows somewhat viable and snipey, and make some heavy long rifles "viable"), limited to 1st range increment or not

Shooters aim is a bad feat too (because as written, it is a must take for snipers) however, I do have a feeling sniper weapons will undergo some change

Talisman dabbler archetype makes it easy to carry and "sacrifice" pistols with high damage output, atleast until lvl 10 ish.

Jezail would be better name for the sniper rifle than arquebus, and arquebus the "soldiers rifle"

I wish there would be less trash talk and more actual mechanical talk

Guns get versatile that should not be underestimated and I personally hope for a more logical and slightly better trait that let's gm choose the best damage type (between P and B)

Gunslinger is a support class with fast reactions, luck and cool tricks.

I just wanted to bring out the thought some might oversee

Rysky wrote:

Pumpkinhead11 wrote:

This is a Level 6 Fighter Feat and a Level 8 Rogue Feat. We already have abilities that do this very thing at this very level range.

No we don’t.

Throwing a weapon and it ricocheting back to you is not the issue with the feat.

That has been one of the most talked about issue with a number of posters; including this very thread. Ricochet Stance works very similar on a practical level as Rebounding Assault; the only exceptions i see are multiple range increments for RA as apposed to RS, the additional 1d6 to damage, and RA allows for piercing weapons.

So get rid of allowing Piercing Weapons and they end up being rather similar. Speaking practically, rather than literally of course.

If the problem is with the oddly loose, yet oddly specific wording, then i just haven’t seen many arguments of why that shouldn’t be, or isn’t expected to be, cleaned up. Maybe I’ve just missed them tho

@ Raven - you do have a point with RS being limited to Thrown Weapons specifically, but RA gives weapons w/o the thrown trait the thrown trait, limits them to 1-handed weapons, and half the range of normal Thrown Weapons; and all the 1-handed weapons in the CRB are 1 bulk or less(with two exceptions being Uncommon Advanced Weapons).

to disallow piercing weapons is to dissallow rapiers, probably of of the drifters popular weapons and what many in europe would play because of history.

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Make a Distraction sets it up, but requires CHA investment.

Yep, good callout, but it doesn't really improve the situation. Like Hide, Make a Distraction costs an action per turn, so the Gunslinger still can't use Vital Shot very often.

Sagiam wrote:

Smoke Screen gives you concealment, and running reload can be used with the sneak action.

Smoke Screen grants Concealment, but Concealment doesn't grant Hidden, nor does it make enemies Flat-Footed. That means you can't use Vital Shot, and you can't Sneak (Sneak does nothing unless you first have Hidden).

Laki7z wrote:

Or you know, have allies to set you up if you dislike hide action that much. They can trip, cast spells, use some other class features (swordcrit, aggressive block, unbalancing finisher as example).

That's true, but it feels bad to rely on teammates to pick up specific Feats (or crit) to enable one of your core class features. Especially since the easiest way to apply Flat-Footed, Trip, gives a penalty to ranged attacks.

Quote:

You can snipe with a pistol and use pistol twirl to feint

This still takes an action, so we can't use Vital Shot consistently. Using a pistol also goes strongly outside the intended theme of this Way.

Quote:

Starting hidden/undetected is not too hard

True, it's relatively easy to start the combat with a Vital Shot. Do you think the intent behind Vital Shot is for it to be used only once or twice per combat? That wasn't my impression, but if that was the designer's intent, this all makes a lot more sense.

trip does not automatically reduce your ranged hit chance, but prone condition allows to take an action to get greater cover.

You will have ghost shot at higher levels and shooters aim avaible too, risky reload and whatever to use.

Vital shot gives alot compared to other 2 action attacks and are balanced with flatfooted req.
Should perhaps stack similar to power attack on the bonus weapon dice, but the bleed is its strong point

Or you know, have allies to set you up if you dislike hide action that much. They can trip, cast spells, use some other class features (swordcrit, aggressive block, unbalancing finisher as example).
You can snipe with a pistol and use pistol twirl to feint

Starting hidden/undetected is not too hard

Schreckstoff wrote:

I prefer the Era of firearms in the current playtest for one.

Simple frontloaded firearms mix better with high fantasy settings than repeating ones to me.

I disagree. Muzzle loaded firearms don't mix well with fantasy imo, and really the gunslinger doesn't mix well with fantasy in general

how does a cowboy mix in better with fantasy than a witch hunter using flintlocks?

Why do other fantasy themed games succeed with muzzle loaders and are not mixing in mid-late 19th century guns?

And it is not like western fluff did not have an era with flintlocks/percussion oneshots (zorro etc.).

Alot of modern games skip logic of loadtime just because muzzleloaders fit with the theme alot better.

Take a dwarf with a "boomstick" in a fantasy group with a bard, a cleric and sword n board user.

We have moba game characters using muzzle loaders because it fits fantasy better
Now replace it with a repeater.

Capacity weapons should be more "experimental stuff" or stuff from numeria.

Just gonna mention reload times of firearms in vermintide, fast, unlogical and fun to use.

As in pf1, "advanced weapons" (era wise)
should be rare and in a certain setting.

Keep feeding your experience.
I tried a lvl 4 pistolero that quick draws and have potency crystals on the reserve when I need it, starting with 2 loaded pistols. I will intentionally skip firearm ace (for playtest data) as it should not be a feat. With quick draw, it is kinda incredible how much you can do and I even mix in some daggers for some cheap -8 map attacks. Later levels can save one of your main guns drawn for reactions (if expected) and quick draw more, or you can drop after the first round to reload more conventionally, often with moving.

Quicksilver mutagen is a hot take.
You will not always use your consumables but they are cheap enough to do occasionaly

Find your style, do your survey!

There are other stuff that handles other weapons. It would be alot harder to balance if it allowed archery or so I believe.

Later expansions are to be expected more focused or complicated.

Let us gunlovers get this one please?
I do like Xbow too
Slings are cool too
Playing technical and taking reload in consideration is nice, but having those daggers to throw if missfire ruins your style or even throw a rapier is possible!

Some classes might need to be more focused to be "fun"

Here me out, firearm ace is so good that all builds my players have done includes it. Probably because the other level 1 feats feels underwhelming but it does make the game in lower levels just be "strike, reload, strike. It is also less needed as there will be martial weapon choices in comparison to crossbows. If anything, this feat belongs to the ranger or be meshed in with crossbow ace into a reload ace.

What I am trying to say is that 'fireatm ace' is too good for its own good even if the class will not use it too often due to quick draw or similar.

One pistolero build went like this @ level 4
Firearm ace
Quick draw
Running reload

Turn 1, draw 2 pistols, shoot both, drop, quick draw a MUSKET, turn 2 reload shoot reload and cue in the rotation. Mostly because of firearm ace. Considered dropping the pistols higher levels just because of runes, retraining quick draw to risky reload.

If we must have a "flat damage boost" put in point blank shot or something else but I'd rather have this circumstance bonus be a part of the guns themselves or a class feature somehow. I want the level 1 choice be a choice.

On a ranger, firearm ace would be a choice compared to its other feats.

I have done 3 short scenarions and 1 slightly longer as a GM

Tripod should just be removed and used as flavour and steady action should stay active until you use a move action.

Fun thing is if you are prone, you get a -2 circumstance bonus and those do not stack with unsteady so you can take greater cover instead as something to consider.

And we have the twirl feat to feint.

Why this comparison of bows and guns in a thread about sniper?

The major benefit of a gun is higher damage per shot and having 2 damage types, getting through shield blocks and damage resistance

Lvl 1 shortbow will do s+~* against those -1 level skeleton guard
An Arquebus will probably kill one on one hit, even if not critting, and even maybe thanks to the sniper rule adding up that 1 damage, it will be a kill 5/8 times, not counting crits. Every weapon will be for different occasions and sure, killing goblins, the bow might win.

If anything, I just want to remove that tripod as it feels confusing. Must I wield the tripod, set it up 1 action, draw weapon 1 action, voiding sniper deed, then use one action to put it on the tripod? That is just the "worse" interpretation. Add in how it is not clear if it breaks stealth too (as it is up to the GM with interract wich should be reversed, allowing interract but some interract might deemed stealthbreaking)

on to the question of this thread, sniper rule is ok but should be easier to follow and scale similar like deadly that a +3 weapon deals +3 damage.

Two-weapon flurry comes with the press trait. It also requires 2 (loaded) weapons to be wielded. The only way it can be used is if you start your turn wielding 2 weapons, striking once, drop, draw (without using quick draw) and then use the level 14 feat that either quick draw can do by itself or prefer to just use paired shots (level 8 feat) instead. This also skips your ability to use the pistolero deed "finish the job" so final shot is @ -10 MAP no matter what.

This can be solved with being quickened from haste or having two-weapom reload, but those are outside factors.

Pistoleros retort is not bad but abit boring and that deed could be used to perhaps allow to draw a pistol freely once a turn or allow to load 2 pistols at once. Finish the job could be a passive that kick in whenever you miss

[Edit] it could be used in melee but seems still odd to give press trait @lvl 14 without a fail effect. It has the flourish trait and can't be used with reloading strike

beowulf99 wrote:

For the Pistolero, I see them going more for a Pirate "Bandolier of Pistols" sort of feel rather than a wild west gunglinger with a 6-shooter.

Draw, shoot, drop repeat. "Ranged doubling rings" mean that you will only really be drawing with one hand, but in practice it's all good. I would like to see a special pistol brace that has a doubling ring effect on pistols on the turn they are drawn so that we aren't just juggling pistols with one hand, but meh, that's for later.

One problem with that approach would be that by the looks of it you need to spend an hour maintaining each firearm, so if you had 5 flintlock pistols total you'd need 5 hours a day of just maintaining weapons if you don't want misfires.

Hate to say it again, check the sticky thread, fixed, any number of weapons for 1h now

It is bad, should be atleast as the fighter's aggressive block where both options are bad for the opponent. I'd prefer if it acted against will dc somehow to make a foe stunned 1, immobolized or just pure prone as a fear effect.

Level 1 feats are currently quite boring and this is one that have a good potentional to be useful to avoid the autotake firearm ace

So why can't I just strike with my rapier in melee and shoot as part of "Rebounding Assault" and gain precision damage if both hit? Shoot the place you pierced, slashed or bonked? Maybe add a step afterward, using the momentum to reposition or get out of melee range. Now that is drifterstyle.

To add some image, you stab, then shoot, add a kick as you shoot.

Feels for the way and level 1.

Then we try to explain Rebounding Assault as it is now... I toss my nonthrown weapon perfectly, hit my target, shoot the weapon (as explained), to deal more damage and then it rebounds back to my hand perfectly. 10ft is just the range increment, could be done farther away. And that is for nonthrown weapon. Should be a feat as a bonus to normal a normal effect.

Many spells that kinda controlls a target does not give the controlled condition and lasts one turn making stubborn bonus effect forgetable.

Command and suggestion is a way too common occurance and something stubborn should help against somehow (can't crit fail or something)

just something I noticed planning a game for my lvl 4 players

Firearms might need a new weapon trait to replace versatile (and a trait I see downvalued somehow in this thread) with something like:
"Optimal B" this weapon deals B damage if it would deal more than normal for its type (P).
if the image of skeletons does not help, then try shooting some certain oozes.

And I just dislike all the hate on flintlock, some do really love em, just imagine a pistolero as a cavalier

I guess advanced weapons will be advanced proficiency.

I really like the lethal rules on them.

Just messed around at todays table and will have a real testing next week

I'd rather have the interact action to stabilize be the "tripod" effect and a tripod, monopod, bardiche or whatever be the flavor, stabilize, as long as you don't move, you don't get penalty. Also, there are many actions allowed when stealthing, just behind "if deemed viable by the gm" and also later explained that standing up and waving, making noise breaks stealth but trying to pick a lock silently could be done, but require another stealth check. Reloading in a distance should fall in here as crossbow users have already been sniping as rangers. There should be feat like the assassins get to increase damage from sniper