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dragonhunterq wrote:

Not sure I fully agree with you KylarStern. You get one extra attack whenever you full attack with no restriction so you do get 1 extra attack with 2 claws.

so 2 claws +1 bonus attack
1 longsword+1 claw +1 bonus attack
1 longsword +1 short sword +2 bonus attacks

Two-weapon fighting:

Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting in Combat.

When making natural attacks you are not Two-Weapon Fighting. Natural attacks do not have an "off-hand" they are Primary (Claw, Bite) and Secondary (Hoof, Wing, Tail). Primary attacks are made at the creature's full BAB, while secondary are made at BAB -5.

From Bestiary 1 pg 301 and 302 for Natural Attacks:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

The original question was if the creature was Two-Weapon Fighting. So you are correct that the Stance would grant one additional attack with sword/claw and one each with sword/sword, but it would not grant one with each claw/claw.

Edit: Misread your post the first time


Strictly by the rules, no the creature would not get the extra attacks. "Two-weapon Fighting" and getting two or more attacks with natural weapons are, from a rule mechanics point of view, two different things.

Two-Weapon Fighting gives you an extra off-hand attack. If you do not have the feat, you take massive penalties. On the other hand, if you have two natural claw attacks, you get two attacks with those claws and nothing else. You can "two-weapon fight" with claws if you have a weapon in one hand (replacing the claw attack) and claw with the other. The claw however suffers a -5 penalty to hit as it is now considered a "secondary weapon" (see Multiattack monster feat in the Bestiary)

Example: Claw-monster with +5 BAB, 14 Str, Two-Weapon Fighting, and Multiattack could make the following attacks

2 Claws at +7 or
Longsword +5 and Claw +3 (5 BAB +2 Str -2 Multiattack -2 "Light" Weapon)

Broken Blade stance would grant one extra attack with the Longsword/Claw but not with Claw/Claw


If I understand what you are asking correctly, you would not gain any bonuses to combat maneuvers when using enchanted Brass Knuckles, etc.

From what I have read, "Fist Load" weapons count as Weapon attacks not as Unarmed attacks. I'm basing this on the both the Brawler and Monk unarmed damage ability. If either of them were to use a fist load, they would get the weaker weapon damage instead of their better unarmed damage. (At least until the brawler gets his special ability at higher level.)

Having stated that, I totally disagree with those rules. Fist loads are specifically meant to increase damage from a punch by virtue of increased mass. Depending on the combat maneuver, or specific feat I don't think it would be unreasonable for the bonus from the weapon to apply. Grappling - probably not, Tripping - probably.

Anyway, that's my opinion


My problem with it is I think there should be some kind of size limit to the ability. For example, +/-10ft from the distance moved for every size-category difference beyond the first.
Thus a medium size creature gains +10ft of distance for smacking a Tiny creature, but loses 10ft of distance against a Huge creature.


Someone please tell me I am reading the Champion's Blowback ability wrong. Unless I am mistaken, as written I could cast Shrink on a Halfling monk, making him Tiny-sized. Then said Halfling could run/sneak/fly/etc. up to a Great Wyrm (Colossal-sized) and he could "ninja-kick" the dragon using A standard action and spending a use of mythic power to activate Blowback and launch the dragon 10ft per Mythic Tier. Does any one else think that this is a little too powerful, even for a Mythic character?

Although the idea of a 1ft tall halfling launching a 90ft red dragon 100ft into the wall of its own lair is rather amusing.