Broken Blade Stance with natural attacks


Advice and Rules Questions


Hi guys!

A quick question: Broken Blade Stance says that: "If the initiator is two weapon fighting, he gains this extra attack for both hands".

Considering that natural weapons are discipline weapons, a creature with two claws attacks would be considered "two weapon fighting" for the purpouse of this stance?


Flagging for move (3pp).


Nope. You cannot two weapon fight with natural weapons. The fact that they are discipline weapons is irrelevant. You will get 1 extra attack.


Strictly by the rules, no the creature would not get the extra attacks. "Two-weapon Fighting" and getting two or more attacks with natural weapons are, from a rule mechanics point of view, two different things.

Two-Weapon Fighting gives you an extra off-hand attack. If you do not have the feat, you take massive penalties. On the other hand, if you have two natural claw attacks, you get two attacks with those claws and nothing else. You can "two-weapon fight" with claws if you have a weapon in one hand (replacing the claw attack) and claw with the other. The claw however suffers a -5 penalty to hit as it is now considered a "secondary weapon" (see Multiattack monster feat in the Bestiary)

Example: Claw-monster with +5 BAB, 14 Str, Two-Weapon Fighting, and Multiattack could make the following attacks

2 Claws at +7 or
Longsword +5 and Claw +3 (5 BAB +2 Str -2 Multiattack -2 "Light" Weapon)

Broken Blade stance would grant one extra attack with the Longsword/Claw but not with Claw/Claw


Not sure I fully agree with you KylarStern. You get one extra attack whenever you full attack with no restriction so you do get 1 extra attack with 2 claws.
so 2 claws +1 bonus attack
1 longsword+1 claw +1 bonus attack
1 longsword +1 short sword +2 bonus attacks


dragonhunterq wrote:

Not sure I fully agree with you KylarStern. You get one extra attack whenever you full attack with no restriction so you do get 1 extra attack with 2 claws.

so 2 claws +1 bonus attack
1 longsword+1 claw +1 bonus attack
1 longsword +1 short sword +2 bonus attacks

Two-weapon fighting:

Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting in Combat.

When making natural attacks you are not Two-Weapon Fighting. Natural attacks do not have an "off-hand" they are Primary (Claw, Bite) and Secondary (Hoof, Wing, Tail). Primary attacks are made at the creature's full BAB, while secondary are made at BAB -5.

From Bestiary 1 pg 301 and 302 for Natural Attacks:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

The original question was if the creature was Two-Weapon Fighting. So you are correct that the Stance would grant one additional attack with sword/claw and one each with sword/sword, but it would not grant one with each claw/claw.

Edit: Misread your post the first time

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