Is the Snowball spell effective underwater?

[Solinara]

This is my first post on the message board, so I’m hoping you can all help.

Assuming you are able to cast without problems underwater. What happens when you try to use the Snowball spell underwater?
It’s a ranged touch Evocation (now) spell. But the wording of the spell (fluff?) says you “throw” the snowball.

Ranged Attacks Underwater: Thrown weapons are ineffective underwater, even when launched from land. Attacks with other ranged weapons take a –2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5 feet of water they pass through, in addition to the normal penalties for range.

So I see three options:
1) it’s a thrown weapon and in completely ineffective
2) as it’s ranged touch it takes the -2 per 5’
3) it’s not treated as a weapon at all, as it’s Evocation magic, so the above rules don’t apply

There have been a couple of posts that skirt around this question but I’ve not found a definitive answer

[KingGramJohnson]

Snowball link for refrence.

There are two versions of this spell, a conjuration version, and an evocation version. They operate slightly differently, but since you're asking about the evocation version, that is what I'll address.

This is how I would interpret the rules if I were GMing this scenario.

Because the snowball spell is a magical effect, the "throw" part of it is fluff. I imagine it as the spellcaster forming the ball of snow into their hand and throwing it, but the magical energy guides it rather than the spellcaster's aim.

The spell does not state that you use the thrown weapons rules but does say it's a ranged touch attack, so it would follow those rules. So, like any other ranged spell, it is treated as a ranged attack and takes any penalties that apply. -4 if cast into melee (without precise shot), and -2 per 5' underwater.

I hope this helps.

[Azothath]

If you are in PFS or a close to RAW game then you'll want to use the spell on Archive of Nethys  Snowball{V}[cold, water] 1st  as a Ranged Touch attack (not a Thrown weapon) as the other version(s) has been superseded. Note that it is not a [fire] type.

Underwater Combat rules  where Ranged Attacks Underwater: Thrown weapons are ineffective underwater, even when launched from land. Attacks with other ranged weapons take a –2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5 feet of water they pass through, in addition to the normal penalties for range.

A Ranged Touch Attack still suffers Range penalties although you target Touch AC rather than Regular AC. see Aiming a Spell Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don’t have to see the creature you’re trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you’re aiming.

comment: unless you are adventuring in water 50% or more, I can't recommend any of the aquatic feats/metamagic feats. A Potion Sponge may prove invaluable.

[Zombie Lord]

Cold spells underwater do half cold and half piercing damage

Edit: also spells are not ranged weapons. There should be no other penalties

Aquatic Adventures, pg 46

[Azothath]

Zombie Lord wrote:

Cold spells underwater do half cold and half piercing damage

Edit:...
Aquatic Adventures, pg 46

The full text under Spells - Cold Spells; "Spells that deal cold damage but don't normally conjure ice, like cone of cold, instead deal half cold damage and half piercing damage, as the cold creates jagged ice shards underwater. This has no effect on spells that already create ice, rather than just cold damage."

Thus, Snowball creating snow and ice does not change its damage.

[Azothath]

Zombie Lord wrote:

...

Edit: also spells are not ranged weapons. There should be no other penalties

FAQ CRB: Weapon Attacks and Special Abilities The first line covers it

"In general, special abilities that require attack rolls benefit and suffer from all modifiers affecting attack rolls even if those modifiers mention weapon attack rolls (such as the penalty for firing into melee, the bonus on attack rolls from Point-Blank Shot and inspire courage, and the like), unless the spell specifically calls out that it doesn’t apply them (for instance spiritual weapon calls out that it isn’t affected by feats and combat actions, but it would still have to deal with cover, and firing into melee if ranged)."

Comments: Aquatic Adv gives a lot of added descriptive and creative text and posits why some bonuses/penalties are there. That doesn't affect where those modifiers apply in the game process. I like the supplement but it makes me wonder why rays and ranged touch attacks suffer drag. It makes me wonder if you can have difficult terrain in the air for fliers or in the water for swimmers...