I am being told that maintaing a grapple with her hair does NOT use her int, but only affects the intial grapple check is this true????? I don't read it this way.

At 1st level, a white-haired witch gains the ability to use her hair as a weapon. This functions as a primary natural attack with a reach of 5 feet. The hair deals 1d4 points of damage (1d3 for a Small witch) plus the witch’s Intelligence modifier. In addition, whenever the hair strikes a foe, the witch can attempt to grapple that foe with her hair as a free action* without provoking an attack of opportunity, using her Intelligence modifier in place of her Strength modifier when making the combat maneuver check. When a white-haired witch grapples a foe in this way, she does not gain the grappled condition.

Adopted doesn't let you take those kind of abilities.

Try Here

Segnato wrote:

I like the curse/debuff/control/team high five class Idea.

...Witch. Evil Eye. Sleep. Misfortune. Spells.

seconded

If you really want to make people cry and trivialize an encounter just use a witch specializing in the sleep hex. its just cheese.

Bad guy goes to sleep...
any party member coup de grace...

This will most likely upset your DM and get you killed or something though.

Them being brothers ect. reminded me!!

You could always adapt the *Finding Haleen* Campaign Trait to whatever you decided to run. This would allow them +1HP and +1SP per level. Not a huge boon but helps the characters out and gives a story hook.

Finding Haleen
You never knew your parents—perhaps they died when you were a child, or maybe you were taken from them and raised elsewhere as a slave. You owe your sanity and your life to a woman named Haleen. She could be your sister or merely a childhood companion, but whatever your relationship to her, she took care of you and protected you. She’s always been a part of your life, and although her temper often kept her from making friends or keeping a job, she’s always been kind to you. Haleen was instrumental in securing your freedom from slavery or making sure you got a good apprenticeship or job in society—but recently, she’d been growing strangely morose and depressed. You and Haleen normally kept no secrets, but whatever was bothering her wasn’t something she shared with you. One night, she vanished, leaving you a brief note, begging you to forget her and to get on with your life, but something about the note bothered you—something in the way she phrased her words struck you as forced. You may be convinced she’d been kidnapped, forced to leave against her will, or even magically controlled, but you also suspect that she left you to protect you from something—that was ever her way. You’re now convinced that it’s time for you to step in and protect her, but you had no idea where she may have gone until recently. Several months have passed since she disappeared, and you’ve spent those months searching for clues to her location, and you’ve finally found a lead—a mysterious note, a strange dream, the result of a back-alley divination, or a report of a sighting of a woman matching Haleen’s description has come to you, placing Haleen in the vicinity of an old ghost town named Kelmarane. What she’s doing there and how she came to be there makes no sense to you yet, but the lead is the strongest one you’ve had. This and Garavel’s advertisement for mercenaries to accompany him to the region is all the omen you need. You joined Garavel’s group and eagerly await the day you’ll be leaving for Kelmarane. Although Haleen chose to become a swashbuckling adventurer, she always encouraged you to seek your own path, and her support is the primary reason you chose the class you did at 1st level.

Benefit: This class is always a favored class to you, and your dedication to it is such that every time you take a level in the class, you gain +1 hit point and 1 additional skill point over and above what you would normally gain. If multiple PCs take this trait, they should be siblings who were both protected and raised by Haleen.

Can you really not find a 3rd??? It would be helpful

Well being that there are only 2 of them I personally would allow epic fantasy 25 Point buy.

The Rogue could be a sanctified Rogue(archetype) if he shares a similar Deity as the Paladin.

A module with 2 people can e done but you will be doing a lot of adjustment.

The Paladin could also take the squire feat. It will help balance things out a little.

Squire
You attract a squire to aid you in your knightly endeavors.
Prerequisite: Character level 3rd*, proficient with all martial weapons.

Benefit: This feat acts similarly to the Leadership feat, with several exceptions. You can only attract a 1st-level cohort (referred to hereafter as a squire) with this feat, and cannot recruit followers until you have the Leadership feat. You determine your Leadership score according to the rules presented in the Leadership feat, but your squire is always at least three or more levels lower than yourself.

A squire can only take levels in a class that grants proficiency with all martial weapons as a class feature, such as paladin, gunslinger, cavalier, or fighter. She cannot multiclass, though she may take any archetype she qualifies for.

If a squire gains enough XP to bring her to two levels lower than your level, the squire does not gain the new level until you gain your next level—until then her new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next level and she gains no additional XP until you advance.

If you release your squire from service, you may gain a new one by scouting for potential candidates in a city or large town where members of your knightly order can typically be found, which requires at least 24 hours of uninterrupted scouting. This act can also replace a squire who has perished.

Graduation: When you reach 7th level, this feat automatically upgrades to the Leadership feat (meaning that you effectively lose this feat and replace it with Leadership).

Graduation Benefits: You gain all the normal benefits of the Leadership feat, except that your squire must remain at least three levels lower than you and must continue to take levels in her first class. In order for your squire to be able to be two levels lower than you, your squire must be at least 4th level, and you must witness her as she singlehandedly defeats a creature with Hit Dice equal to or greater than her own. Upon the creature's defeat, your squire graduates to full knighthood and acts as a normal cohort; she may begin taking levels in other classes if she so chooses, and she may increase in level to up to two levels lower than yourself.

Level 3) Goblin Rogue of Sarenrae (Swashbuckler archetype)

Trait
Flame of the Dawnflower (Sarenrae)-
You have been raised to view yourself as a blade in Sarenrae’s service, or you have taken that duty on for yourself.
Benefit: Whenever you score a critical hit with a scimitar, you deal an additional 2 points of fire damage to your target.
(plus goblins love fire)

Wield a Scimitar

Feats

Lvl 1) Combat Expertise (To work on Feint Tree)
RT 2)Weapon Finesse
Lvl 3) Dervish Dance

Rogue Talent

Lvl 2) Finesse Rogue

With a 20 dex assuming you at least threw a 16(+4 racial mod) in it.

Scimitar/ +8 to hit/ 18-20x2 +2 Fire Crit/ Piercing/ 1D4+5+2D6 Sneak.

At least it has some flavor with it. A Dancing, Holy Goblin that hasn't completely forgot the "instinct" of his people... and still likes fire (He may even find himself closer to his god because of this)

Duskblade wrote:

Helm of the Mammoth Lord - Grants you a gore attack (which is primary)

Ring of Rat Fangs - Grants you a bite attack (again primary)
Wyvern Cloak - Expensive, but grants you a sting attack (primary as well)
Tentacle Cloak - Gives you two secondary natural attacks

This is probably your best option. Even with just the Ring of Rat Fangs that give you three attacks at your highest BAB. Although the d8 sneak attack rogue talent for catfolk only applies to claws, ANY additional attacks that can sneak attack is good. Wyvern cloack and Tentacle are pretty expensive but the helmet and ring are both under 10k. There are also the third party item Raptor Boots (or Boots of the Raptor can't remember off the top of my head) that once you have 10 ranks in acrobatics gives you an additional attack.

As a note Speed does not apply to natural attacks.

Where does it say that about speed??

Amulet of Mighty Fists
Aura faint evocation; CL 5th
Slot neck; Price 4,000 gp (+1), 16,000 gp (+2), 36,000 gp (+3), 64,000 gp (+4), 100,000 gp (+5)*; Weight —

DESCRIPTION

This amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons.

Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks. See Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities for a list of abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses. An amulet of mighty fists cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +5. An amulet of mighty fists does not need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to grant a melee weapon special ability.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic fang, creator’s caster level must be at least three times the amulet's bonus, plus any requirements of the melee weapon special abilities; Cost 2,000 gp (+1), 8,000 gp (+2), 18,000 gp (+3), 32,000 gp (+4), 50,000 gp (+5)

Speed

Price +3 bonus
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Weight —

DESCRIPTION

When making a full-attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Cost +3 bonus

I can see how that could have been read differently.

Are you going to increase your dragons size later?? That would be sweet.

Oh right don't forget the Grab ability was changed! You can use it on creatures equal to your size now! good and bad lol.

Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).

Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.

Format: grab; Location: individual attacks.

If you already have claws, my dm let me use the feat to bump my die damage up a step.

I'd also reccomend you take a look at scout. More specifically, scouts charge..
(Lets you deal sneak damage after a "charge".)
Then look at "Claw Pounce"
(Lets you swing with both claws after a move)

So, if your sneak damage is 4d6...
You scout ahead for the group...
You can spot a flat-footed opponent...
scouts charge at them..
claw pounce for your attack..
Left claw- 1d4 + str + 4d6
Right claw- 1d4 + str + 4d6
Go back to your group, and tell them "There was a bandit up ahead, but not anymore..." as you grin evilly and lick the blood off your claws.

At least, that's how I play my feral catfolk XD

lol awesome.

I know scouts charge looks so good... I wish my freaking dm would just back to me so i can know what i can take... it would make this process easier.

"Select one natural attack form and increase the damage die type by one step."

Claws are only one form.
It's like taking the improved Natural attack feat.

hm ya, and those seconddary attacks should take less of a penatiy to at 9th level

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/eidolons#TOC-Multiatt ack
but being he has 3 attacks it turns into http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/multiattack-combat
though he does get 6 attacks till very late

atm hes only 2nd level

As far as second level goes your build looks pretty solid. I would just change the Improved Damage from Bite to Claws.

Bite 1D8+ 3
Claw 1D4+ 2
Claw 1D4+ 2

or

Bite 1D6+ 3
Claw 1D6+ 2
Claw 1D6+ 2

Personally I'd go with claws but it is your choice.

Yes!
1st level spell would take 1 hour and 1 page in your spell book each.
would cost 10gp for the spell.
5gp for the wizard you are learning it from or rather his/her spellbook you are learning it from.
Maybe your GM would let you "trade" spells and ignore the extra 5gp.
you give (wizard A) a spell and he gives you one.

so 10 spells would be 150gp.

Mudfoot wrote:

And it's a long wait. Without some substantial damage bonus, the extra crits won't make up for the lesser base damage.

Mathematically, a 1d4 18-20 crit weapon will put out more damage than a 1d6 19-20 crit.

On a similar note, for those advocating dual elven curved blades the -4 penalty to hit is not worth the increase from 1d4 to 1d10 base damage.

I seconded this.

ya i saw the max attacks one, though if i give him arms to wield swords i can give him some sword attacks, but then he would look like a very weird dragon, would have to come up with something i suppose

Your choice but all your Natural attacks would become secondary as soon as you pic up a weapon. Try just adding other Natural attacks as you level.

Wing buffet?? another 2 secondary attacks.

So..
(Free)Bite Primary
(1EP)Claw Primary
Claw Primary
(1EP)Tail
(1EP)Sting/Slap (More if you have more tails)
(2EP)5thLevel Flight to gain wings
(1EP)Wing Secondary
Wing Secondary

Thats 6 of your EP for 6 Natural attacks. Not to shabby.

While I hate to say it (and I'm sure some people will disagree with me), the ninja class on the whole is far more superior than the rogue class. You have more options, more powerful ninja tricks, and you can basically do a lot more than anything the rogue has to offer. You still gain access to the catfolk rogue tricks, and don't forget about using the feat Catfolk exemplar (which basically grants claws, which in turns allows you to take clever cat as a racial trait).

I can assure u that 4 (or 5) primary natural attacks with sneak attack, the ability to scout and disable traps, AND the ability to act as the party face will keep your character VERY relevant throughout the entire game (again, I while I realize you might not enjoy the ninja, catfolk really fit this class extraordinarily well).

I have already taken an in-depth look at both the rogue and ninja class, and each and every time, the ninja comes out on top. Keep in the mind that the ninja IS allowed to learn one rogue trick (and to be honest, there really aren't that many good ones anyway...and most of the really good ones, a ninja can already learn).

Also, its important to note that a ninja is MUCH better at wielding a wand than a rogue will ever be (Charisma is an important stat after all). And in truth, the 'ki point' system really isn't that different from the 'rage' mechanic with the barbarian, and it gives your character A LOT more options.

but meh, that's just my advice. Like I said, catfolk exemplar is a REALLY good feat, and I wouldn't be surprised if u end up taking it multiple times (getting the 'sharp claws' and the 'low-light vision/scent' options).

I'm not disagreeing that the ninja is good just not what i picture for my character you know.

Also i don't like the barbarian 'rage' mechanic either lol. I know I'm a blasphemer.

I will most likely be picking Catfolk exemplar anyways it is just a good feat for them.

KatoCha04 wrote:

I thought about scout rouge because as far as power goes for this character its a good choice but as far as flavor i like the Acrobat archetype. I feel like it just fits a sneaky cat. I have seen cats do some crazy stuff lol.

You're not going Cat Burglar for flavor?? Being Catfolk I thought that might be a given...

Thought about this but I'm not going for a hey I'm a rouge I'm gonna rob you lol. I liked the idea of being all nimbly bimbbley(real word swear).

A1) Stats look alright can't carry a whole lot but you don't really need to thats what the fighter's are used for :P I'd stick to some sort of ranged weapon. crossbow maybe?? when not using spells obviously.

A2) This looks Correct

A2B) No because they are all primary But BAB will never increase his number of attacks like normal for an Eildolon

A3) Yes he can have power attack Req.(str 13, BAB 1) Feats: This is the total number of feats possessed by an eidolon. Eidolons can select any feat that they qualify for, but they must possess the appropriate appendages to use some feats. Eidolon feats are set once chosen, even if the creature changes when the summoner gains a new level. If, due to changes, the eidolon no longer qualifies for a feat, the feat has no effect until the eidolon once again qualifies for the feat.

A3B) This looks Correct as well.

I suppose ability focus is out then. But the question is more focused on the first two feats: toughness and skill focus fly. I can't get any feat with int 3+ requirements since I'm taking flyby attack but the first two are flexible.

Int 3 is a fantastic boon for your animal companion. you won't have to rely on tricks or "pushing" your companion you can just shout (or one of your allies) something to do and bam.

I put together a build very similar to this idea on the boards a few months ago. Here's the first 13 levels.

I used the Adopted-Tusked trait to get a bite attack. There's some debate as to whether it would be at full BAB or -5. I don't know. Even at -5, it's way better than a Two-Weapon Fighting rogue.

I built is as a Scout Rogue. I dipped one level of Unarmed Fighter for the free Dragon Style Feat (and the free Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus). Note that in my build I accidentally wrote down the Nimble Striker feat twice. The 5th level feat should be Dodge.

Also, note that my GM said that the claws could count as concealed weapons for the Underhanded Rogue Talent. If you don't want to use Underhanded, I suggest swapping in Fast Getaway.

Some other ways of building it that were suggested on that thread: Vivisectionist Alchemist, Ninja, or dipping levels into Urban Barbarian to get a rage bonus to Dex. Or Synthesist Summoner for the crazy overpowered version.

This is a pretty cool build. I really like redchigh's feral catfolk and BBT's idea of being a Lamashtu follower. If i can (per GM) this is all i would need to achieve my goals.

Underhanded should totally count for cats claws! Retractable claws should be pretty easy to hide. Im sure the GM would allow this, thanks.

I thought about scout rouge because as far as power goes for this character its a good choice but as far as flavor i like the Acrobat archetype. I feel like it just fits a sneaky cat. I have seen cats do some crazy stuff lol.

I still like the idea of worshiping Lamashtu, whether you take the Mother's Teeth trait or not.

If you take the Adopted/Tusked trait, that will eat up your Social and Racial traits.

Something to consider.

I am for sure worshipping lamashtu regardless. Not sure what direction i am going to gain the bite attack still.

Tusked Trait - Orcs of Golarion

Quote:

Tusked: Huge, sharp tusks bulge from your mouth, and you receive a bite attack (1d4 damage for Medium characters). If used as part of a full attack action, the bite attack is made at your full base attack bonus –5.

So take adopted and get it as a trait.

I also seem to remember a discussion where one of PF's writers said natural attacks should always use bestiary rules, and when "secondary natural weapons" mention full attacks and being secondary, they are assuming a physical weapon as the primary. They didn't foresee all the natural attack builds that would pop up. Post a thread in the rules forum if you like. Regardless, "secondary natural attacks" have not been erratta'd yet.

Sweet man thanks for the help. ill have to look into that more later i guess then.

Hello, all.

My friends are going to be starting a lvl 1 pathfinder campaign pretty soon. I've been beating my head against the wall trying to make something for a while now, since I wanted to make something interesting, but still good. I came up with a few things, but this one sticks out as the one I'm most confused about. I can't decide if it's bad or good.

If i were doing this i would go weapon master fighter archetype. It will increase your to hit and damage not to mention just better your kukri's in general.

Just grab the TWF tree. you can get class skills through traits and you can always grab extra traits with your plethora of feats.

Weapon Master
Devoted to the perfection of a single weapon, the weapon master’s meditations upon his favored weapon border on the obsessive, but none can deny his consummate skill. The weapon master must select a single type of weapon (such as longsword or shortbow). All of his abilities apply to that weapon type.

Weapon Guard (Ex)

At 2nd level, a weapon master gains a +1 bonus to CMD against disarm and sunder attempts while wielding his chosen weapon. This bonus also applies on saves against any effect that targets his chosen weapon (for example, grease, heat metal, shatter, warp wood). The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.
This ability replaces Bravery.

Weapon Training (Ex)

At 3rd level, a weapon master gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with his chosen weapon. The bonus improves by +1 for every four levels beyond 3rd.
This ability replaces Armor Training 1, 2, 3 and 4.

Reliable Strike (Ex)

At 5th level, a weapon master may reroll an attack roll, critical hit confirmation roll, miss chance check, or damage roll as an immediate action. He must accept the second roll even if it is worse. He can use this ability once per day at 5th level, plus one additional time per day for every five levels beyond 5th.
This ability replaces Weapon Training 1.

Mirror Move (Ex)

At 9th level, a weapon master gains his Weapon Training bonus as an insight bonus to AC when attacked by his chosen weapon.
This ability replaces Weapon Training 2.

Deadly Critical (Ex)

At 13th level, when a weapon master confirms a critical hit with his chosen weapon, he can increase the weapon’s damage multiplier by +1 as an immediate action. He can use this ability once per day at 13th level, plus one additional time per day for every three levels above 13th.
This ability replaces Weapon Training 3.

Critical Specialist (Ex)

At 17th level, the save DCs of any effects caused by a critical hit with a weapon master’s chosen weapon increase by +4.
This ability replaces Weapon Training 4.

Unstoppable Strike (Ex)

At 19th level, a weapon master can take a standard action to make one attack with his chosen weapon as a touch attack that ignores damage reduction (or hardness, if attacking an object).

I have to admit, getting a natural attack (of any kind) from a trait seems a bit too overpowered to me. Honestly, it just screams of cheese (and trust me, I've made some cheesy characters in the past). The truth is this: secondary natural attacks SUCK (especially if you have an average BAB). To be fair, I think you would have better luck being a catfolk ninja with 2 claw attacks, 1 bite, and 1 gore (from the ring, helm, and racial feat respectively). Catfolk can make excellent party faces, and have enough skill points to invest in the 'stealth' and disable device aspects as well.

I would also recommend taking the 'climber' and 'clever cat' abilities, and to also focus mostly on being dex based as well (weapon finesse, and perhaps eventually getting the 'agile property for your amulet of mighty fists).

with 4 primary natural attacks (5 if you want the wyvern cloak) on top of sneak attack damage, you should be able to produce a great deal of damage with a greater degree of accuracy than most other classes that rely on average BAB.

It would also be benifical to the party if you took on the rolls of both party face and scout (investing in things like bluff, diplomacy, stealth, disable device, and intimidate). If you combine all this with the ability to climb, along with all the tricks a ninja can produce, u should do very well.

I'm not going for cheese here. I just want a viable character that, as the rest of the party progress in levels won't leave me obsolete.

I looked at ninja doesn't do it for me. Not a fan of the ki point system for them. would rather have the rogue's talents that are always there once unlocked.

I plan on climber. but not clever cat i will not have claws then and that kinda defeats the purpose of the build.

The mothers bite isn't overpowered its a secondary attack with D2 Dmg. even a fighter using it with a 28 str score would only do between 10-11 Dmg thats pretty minor.

Remember, the orc trait in orcs of golarian is a primary at full bab. So s the bite from my feral catfolk.

Im having trouble finding the orc trait. I will only take mothers bite if Feral Catfolk aren't allowed. still waiting on the gm apparently i have a few days to get everything in order still.

so adding the crippling strike rouge talent
Crippling Strike (Ex)
Prerequisite: Advanced talents

Benefit: A rogue with this ability can sneak attack opponents with such precision that her blows weaken and hamper them. An opponent damaged by one of her sneak attacks also takes 2 points of Strength damage.

would i deal 2 str dmg per sneak attack? am i reading this right? so i could do 6 str dmg a turn as soon as advanced rouge talents become available?

Make sure mothers bite is a primary..

It would be secondary. so yeah at -5 to hit. well i guess id be picking up multi attack.

so level 8 for example i would be at:
Claw +6
Claw +6
Bite +4
Straight BAB no Str or anything

While a 2-handed or sword board fighter 8 would be at
+8/+3
Straight BAB no Str or anything

Thats not so bad i don't fall behind all that much really.

First, may I suggest lizardfolk? You can find it inthe 'More Races' section of the SRD. It does not list a specific book since it appears that those races are the examples released in various bestiary entries, examples set forth by Paizo in their creating new races, and other such places, but they are still all official. It is still fairly vanilla compared to the other examples. It's main features are three natural attacks, +2 natural armor, and bonuses to strength and con. Good for a thug build.

I would not suggest using manufactured weapons (outside of situations with DR) until you get up to two or three iteratives. Just not worth it, since you lose an attack and lose some BAB on other natural attacks in return for a manufactured weapon attack that is BAB-5.

Ah, and Barry, Mother's teeth entry is here. Yeah, it is that 1d2 attack that is a secondary natural attack(so multiattack would be needed from the very beginning to make it worth anything)

Not really a fan of the lizard folk. Just not my type.

Helm of the Mammoth Lord - Grants you a gore attack (which is primary)

Ring of Rat Fangs - Grants you a bite attack (again primary)
Wyvern Cloak - Expensive, but grants you a sting attack (primary as well)
Tentacle Cloak - Gives you two secondary natural attacks

There are also some 'fleshcrafting potions' that can give you some secondary natural attacks for a permanent penalty, although I wouldn't recommend using them. Essentially the above magic items are your best (and probably the least cheesiest) bet to acquire more natural attacks. In truth, natural attacks only really shine on something like a ninja, rogue, alchemist, etc. If you already have a Full BAB, you probably don't need them (just go ahead and stick with two-handing a weapon, unless you REALLY wanna have the natural attack flavor).

These Items look cool but I don't want a ring that makes me look more rat like lol. Helm of the mammoth lord looks the coolest. I can picture a feral catfolk throwing on another creatures skull for protection.

For more natural attacks, you can have someone cast Monstrous Extremities on you.

Monstrous Extremities is cool but then i have to convince the caster to save a spell slot just for me. Which may not be hard to do actually lol.

It appears with the restrictions I'm putting on myself, the main options im leaving myself with are Feral Catfolk or Mothers bite. the 1D2 isn't a big deal since i would be adding tons of sneak to it later.

hellcat pounce may not be worth it since it only works in the surprise round and with a reach of 5 I'm probably not starting next to people a whole lot.
That would save 2 feats.

Standard Fantasy 15 points
Str 15
Dex 15
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 10

Feats?? I guess Feint tree and then go from there? The Sneak Damage is what is important on this character as far as damage goes.

I was already planning on a going rogue scout (after a couple monk or unarmed fighter levels) for the scout's charge/claw pounce. (since its hard to get full attacks regularly)

I might be wrong, but I thought you could only make one attack during the suprise round (no full attacks) so you would get claw + hellcat pounce instead of claw/claw/bite/speedclaw (since full attacks are neigh-impossible in suprise round)

What is speedclaw again?

Damn... I thought i had written down a way to get a full attack but i can't find it. If i do find it ill let you know.

Speed Claw (AoMF) would need quite a bit of money but it would be pretty sweet.

After reading Claw pounce....

Claw Pounce (Combat, Catfolk)
You can charge and make an attack with your paws.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Dex 15, Nimble Striker, base attack bonus +10, catfolk, cat's claws racial trait or Aspect of the Beast (claws of the beast manifestation).
Benefit: When you make a charge, you can make a full attack with your claws.
Normal: Charging is a special full-round action that limits you to a single attack.

Im not sure if i would still get the bite attack being that it says with your claws. That an the BAB of 10 that you don't get till 14 you wouldn't get this till 15. My bad

so its more like...
Claw (1D6+8D8sneak)x4= 4d6+32D8 on charge assuming you get the 8D8 sneak from hellcat pounce.

or if not in surprise round...
Claw (1D6+8D8)x3=3D6+24D8
Bite 1D4+8D8
= 32D8+3D6+1D4

Without sneak
3D6+1D4

Changlings also get claws. Suprisingly a changeling barbarian with fiend totem will give you three natural attacks.

Thanks but that would miss the character concept that I'm going for.

How do you figure the 35d6? Doesn't look right... Remember claws and bite are d4's

(although improved natural attack claw and catfolk exemplar will bump them to d8's, its probably not worth burning two feats to bump your average base damage on your claws from 2.5 each to 4.5 each)

Sneak Damage

as far as the increase in dice i was thinking vicious claws rouge talent increasing sneak to D8 and maybe just the one feat (Catfolk Exemplar) to increase claws to D6.
That's only 1 feat and 1 Rouge Talent for the Increase. Obviously more for the whole ponce and what not but the increase in Dmg can be achieved as early as 1st level.

So...
Claw D6 + 7D8 sneak x 4= 4D6+28D8
Bite D4 + 7D6 sneak= 1D4+7D6
= 28D8+11D6+1D4

Lamashtu's followers seek out deformity in themselves and in others.

It is the beauty of the monstrous, and the perfection of the deformed.

The creation of new monstrous beings is a focus of her religion as well.

Being a creature so close to the beast, you may see yourself as a possible blood relative to one blessed by Lamashtu.

Finding the beautiful monster within is perhaps what you focus on.

The choice of a more feral battle style is testament to that.

For you, the only true "monsters" are those who deny the beast within.

Sir you may have convinced me to convert lol. at least for this character... i may just worship her regardless now if the DM allows Redchigh's: Feral Catfolk or not. It would make for an intresting game.

Also lose natural hunter.

If a dm were to require a "no metal weapons" element like the druid's "no metal armor", then it would be more balanced.

Of course, if you really forbid all weapons other than natural attacks, then you will get three attacks at full bab at level 1, but never gain any iterative attacks. Even at level 20, you'll still only have the same bite/claw/claw at full BAB, while a fighter might have 8-12 attacks with better damage and an easily enchantable masterwork weapon at level 12-15.

The fact that you're voluntarily nerfing yourself for flavor should balance with the dm at least giving you a chance to shine at early levels. (According to my observations, a NA build does amazing damage at levels 1-4, good damage (on par with a barbarian) at levels 5-7, decent damage (might be out-damaged by melee builds) at levels 8-10, and at level 11+, you might as well learn to grapple or use ways to always get sneak die on every attack, because otherwise you'll be a burden on the party, especially if you can't bypass DR.

Dang Natural hunter is good too.

4 Attacks if i get hellcat pounce(at least sometimes) Also Eldritch Claws will get past magic/silver DR at least and an Amulet Of mighty fist will boost every attack i have. so i could get like Amulet of mighty fist +5 eventually gaining Speed which will add 1 additional attack. so really to be a continuous help to my party (as i level up) i mainly need the sneak damage pretty much every attack. full attack at level 13 in a surprise round would be 35D6 Sneak +10(AoMF)+ 5D4 + Strx5(for each attack) Average is like:146(assuming you hit every attack) not including str. assuming i don't increase the sneak damage or Natural attack damage.

This should be at least a decent build.

Religious persecution is a Paladin thing, I suppose.

You could have a different view, and worship in your own way.

Southern Bapists, Catholics, Lutheran, and Mormons all seem to worship the same god.

Very differently though.

I would have fun creating my own kind of way of worshiping her.

This is actually a great point. She has the madness domain i suppose you could be a good kind of crazy (thats real right? lol) Striving to eliminate other beasts/monsters to gain her approval and evil (intelligent) beasts/monsters need to be eliminated to better focus her "love" on just you.

If I recall, it lost two racial abilities for feral weaponry. (sprint, etc)

I really don't exactly remember, I made the race 3-4 months ago with my dm. Unfortunately Ill have to burn a feat to qualify for claw pounce. It's prereq is one of the things I gave up, along with lowlight vision. (I swapped it out for scent. Our whole group had lowlight vision, so I thought scent would fill a niche against stealth. I'm also a ranger though, so I get a bonus to tracking.)

You lose the sprint for climber racial trait.

Change +2 Cha for +2 Int

You lose low-light for scent racial trait.

The only thing your really loosing for the bite as a primary is the change in languages choices:
Elven, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc, and Sylvan.
For Common, Sylvan, and Gnoll (understand only).

Unless I'm missing something else. I love the idea I just see being shot down for the balancing aspect.

KatoCha04 wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Mother's Teeth will give you a bite attack as well.

But lamashtu... eck.

I love Lamashtu! She reeeeally loves her furry friends. Scaled and tentacled ones too.

My problem would be Chaotic Neutral is the closest i could get to a good character which is fine i guess but explaining to the Angelkin Lawful Good Paladin that

> +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom: Feral Catfolk are quick on

> their feet and cunning hunters, but succumb to animalistic urges.

> Medium: Feral Catfolk are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or
> penalites due to their size.

> Normal Speed: Feral Catfolk have a base speed of 30 feet.

> Cat's Luck: Once per day when a Feral Catfolk makes a Reflex saving
> throw, he can roll the saving throw twice and take the better result.
> He must decide to use this ability before the saving throw is
> attempted.
> *Climber: Feral Catfolk excel at hunting prey from trees and other high
> vantage points. Catfolk with this racial trait possess a climb speed
> of 20 feet (along with the +8 racial bonus on Climb checks a climb
> speed affords).
> *Scent: Feral Catfolk have the scent ability.
> Feral Weaponry: Feral Catfolk have a primary natural bite attack and 2
> primary natural claw attacks that deal 1d4 damage.
>
Languages: Feral Catfolk begin play speaking only Catfolk. Feral
> Catfolk with high Intelligence scores can learn Common, Sylvan, and
> Gnoll (understand only).

The starred items could easily be swapped out, climber is an alternate racial trait.
Gnoll are their native enemy (being doglike). This can be swapped out for another.

Seems pretty legit. Would it not be better (as far as balancing goes) to make the bite attack secondary? What are they actually losing to gain an extra attack?

Why would you waste a feat when there's a trait to do the same thing?

Would your dm allow a catfolk subtype?

Possibly.

We are getting a new GM that i have yet to meet. Not sure how strict he is. My friend knows him and says he's pretty chill so there is no harm in trying.

At least if i bring a coherent sub-type and a convincing argument to the table there is more of a chance that it will be allowed.

If you want, I made a catfolk sub-race called "Feral Catfolk".

They are xenophobic, distrustful of humanoids, and prefer natural weapons over the pitiful metal weapons made by weakling humanoids. If you would like me to post it, I can. They start level 1 with bite/claw/claw.

I would love to see this. The name alone makes sense to have as a sub-race choice anyhow.

Kahn Zordlon wrote:

I play a ratfolk visectionist (sneak attacks like rogue). He took a feat at 1st level available to ratfolk that gave him claw attacks. I also use a tailblade that gives secondary tail attack. Eventually he can buy a ring of rat fangs (think that's the name). This will give him 4 natural attacks. At 1st he has 3. I believe that any race can buy the ring of rat fangs for 5k and get bite attack.

Love this, but hate that, of all the races, catfolk do not get a racial trait for a bite attack. Tengu do (ravens not being known for their ferocious chomping), and Rat-people do (more understandable), and lizardmen (who ever heard of someone being afraid of an iguana's bite?), plus half-orcs, but not GIANT CAT PEOPLE? That's kah-razy. I would suggest talking to one's GM, or for PFS min-maxing the hell out of this with nonsensical Lamashtu traits.

I agree completely why would a cat not have a option for a bite attack?? if i could convince the GM to allow me to take the orc feat that allows the bite attack (maybe just rename?) that would be sweet.

Mother's Teeth will give you a bite attack as well.

But lamashtu... eck.

Scouts charge is better.

I have a catfolk ranger that uses natural attacks.. I got the catfolk claws, and a bite attack (adopted, so I could get the half-orc 'toothy' trait for 1d4 damage.)

So far, natural attacks are nice, but theres no easy way to get additional attacks. My build will take 4 levels to get good, and then will be passed by all other melee classes by level 10-12.

The only way I can think of to boost damage at all is:
Use rogue to ge sneak damage
dip monk for styles (boar shred is nice, requires feral combat training)
dip ranger for two levels (for rending claws, or stick with it for multiattack and eldritch claws)
buy a amulet of mighty fists
if you dip monk, monk hand wraps MAY apply to nat attacks with feral combat training.

Scouts charge(for sneak die on a charge) + claw pounce (can hit with both claws on a charge) plus boar shred and rending claws equals a lot of dice... (yes, sneak damage would be added to both claws)

I'm wondering though, for example, lets say you were being stealthy and jumped out of a tree on a goblin- suprise round and you're charging!

Swing with left claw- 1d4 (claw) + str mod + 2d6 (sneak)
Hellcat pounce activates: Left claw again- 1d4 (claw) + str mod + 2d6 (sneak)
Claw pounce lets you use both claws, so right claw- 1d4 (claw) + str mod + 2d6 (sneak)

If you had rending claws and boar shred, if two claws hit you'd do an additional 1d6 precision and 2d6 bleed. 6d6 + 3d4 + 3 x str mod (and perhaps rending and boar shred for 3d6 more) isn't too bad...

Unfortunately, still wouldnt compare with a barbarian with iterative attacks damage-wise.

This is neat but i would prefer not to dip as much into other character classes. Honestly not overly concerned with out doing the traditional fighter or barbarian. I like it more for the fluff (pun intended) aspect.

Well i was able to find this at least! so at least this will pop me up to 3 attacks for a single turn sometimes assuming i have claw pounce already. well this will get 3 attacks before 15 at least sometimes. Hope this helps anyone else that runs across this. I will most likely keep looking... possibly tomorrow... And update this if i find anything else. Thanks for the help so far guys!

PATHFINDER ACCESSORY

Hellcat Stealth
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Stealth), Stealth 6 ranks.

Benefit: You may make Stealth checks in normal or bright light even when observed, but at a -10 penalty.

Hellcat Pounce (Combat)
Prerequisites: Hellcat Stealth, Skill Focus (Stealth), sneak attack +2d6.

Benefit: Whenever you attack and damage an opponent in the surprise round, you may immediately make a second attack against the same opponent using the same attack bonus. The target is not considered flat-footed against this second attack.

Special: This ability only functions when carrying a light load or less.

If only aspect of the beast allowed like a bite attack or something...

^ What Raisse said.

Sticking to only natural weapons, the only way to increase your number of attacks in a full attack is to increase the number of natural weapons you've got. There's a few ways to do this, but they're all kind of a case-by-case basis.

However, you can mix manufactured and natural weapons together. Natural weapons never benefit from iterative attacks (the second and third ones that you get from your BAB). If you're mixing manufactured and natural attacks though, you can use the manufactured weapon for your iteratives, and add natural attacks as well, though they will always be treated as secondary, giving you BAB-5 on their hit and 1/2 Strength on damage, as mentioned. You also generally lose the natural attack from the limb using the weapon, if they conflict.

I don't know if that all made sense, so here's examples.

From levels 1-20 you could use 2 claws, and that's all you'd ever get. They would each use your full BAB.

You could instead take a weapon in one hand, like a dagger. This means you could full attack with the dagger and with one of your claws. The dagger would be full BAB, and your claw would be BAB-5.

At level 8, you can full attack with the dagger for two attacks, with +6 and +1, along with the claws of your other hand at +1 (BAB-5).

At level 20, you can use the dagger for +15/+10/+5 when full attacking, and your free hand with the claws for +10.

For flavor, you might consider the Catfolk's Claw Blades which, I think, count as manufactured weapons.

Just checked it out and yes they would be manufactured weapons. But still, pretty neat. at least this way i could go down the TWF tree and keep the aesthetic look of just using claws. Thanks!

Would still be interested in a way to go straight Natural weapons. It just sounds appealing.

You can wield a manufactured melee weapon in your main hand and make your full iterative attacks, then 1 claw attack (with full BAB-5, 1/2 STR mod to damage because it is considered a secondary attack when fighting with manufactured weapons).

See i thought about doing that but i really want to stick to Natural attacks. Im trying to avoid manufactured weapons all together.

Would the two weapon fighting/ Improved TWF work? or no because neither are a secondary weapon?

Ok so i have spent a significant amount of time looking and have had zero luck..

This would be a 1st level character. Pathfinder only.

I was looking at the Catfolk race and the ability to have claws as a rouge. I just thought it may be neat to have a sneaky cat that actually used their claws as a primary attack...

Beyond gaining the 2 primary attacks from the Catfolk is there a way to increase the number of natural attacks you get? Or would i be making 2 attacks from level 1 all the way to 20. I do realize a rouge wouldn't even receive a third attack until level 15 but i want that attack when it becomes available. I would enjoy gaining a bite attack or something.

(Page 182 Core) You do not receive additional attacks for a high BAB. Any way around this??