Eldritch Scion Worth it?


Advice


So I'm considering making a magus/brawler gestalt for a game.

And I'm wondering whether or not it's worth it to go for eldritch scion with the arcane blood line?

I'm kind of in love with the idea of using martial versatility along with the brawlers array of abilities alongside a magus's own versatility to smack people around.

My only question is whether or not eldritch scion is worth it or should I go for a different variety of magus?


What is "worth it" to you? I, for one, think it's a really cool archetype that hits everything I want from a Mage Knight type character. Of course, other people seem to dislike it.

Sovereign Court

For a gestalt game, it's fine.


It's kinda eeeeh imo, but it's still servicable. Once you hit 8 it's fine, just a little bit weaker on account of CHA being weaker than INT in general.

If you somehow get divine grace or divine protection in there it's great though.

Contributor

Eldritch Scion is pretty awesome, in my opinion. Bloodrager bloodlines have very potent melee abilities, depending upon which bloodline you choose for yourself.

Dark Archive

I want it to be good, but before level 8 it's just way too hamstrung by its inability to use most of its abilities outside of the mystic focus state. I mean, it's still a spellcaster, so it's not terrible, but it could have been so much more potent. As-is, it's not nearly as good as the vast majority of other Magus archetypes.


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This archetype should be errata-ed to scale the duration of the focus, or allow it to be maintained as a free action. The magus cannot be expending a swift action every other turn to be functional. Also, the lack of compatibility with other archetypes makes a lot of people sad...

Contributor

Heladriell wrote:
This archetype should be errata-ed to scale the duration of the focus, or allow it to be maintained as a free action. The magus cannot be expending a swift action every other turn to be functional. Also, the lack of compatibility with other archetypes makes a lot of people sad...

You can't always have your cake and eat it too. The Eldritch Scion changes a lot about the magus, including its spellcasting. Even if it only changed Int to Cha and made the magus spontaneous, it wouldn't stack with, say, the Kensai because both archetypes would still modify the spells class feature.


I've been looking at the Eldritch Scion again and again for a gestalt game I was invited to, and I just can't buy it over the vanilla magus. Having to spend a swift action every other round just to gain bloodrager powers (and use spell combat until 8th! level) is really rough. That's 50% of your swift actions, and for a class that likes to enchant weapons and use lots of other swift action arcana, it's a real kick in the nuts. If you went into mystic focus when you used your eldritch pool for other things, it would be so much nicer, but right now... rough. And losing spell recall as well as being unable to spell combat with a metamagiced spell without a feat investment just digs the archetype a deeper grave.

Contributor

Stark_ wrote:
Having to spend a swift action every other round just to gain bloodrager powers (and use spell combat until 8th! level) is really rough.

On the other hand, most magus arcana have an instantaneous duration, meaning that you use the swift action once and gain no benefits after the round ends. In some regard, the bloodrager bloodlines are like a handful of extra magus arcana that you receive while leveling up, only they're much more powerful than standard magus arcana.

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That's 50% of your swift actions, and for a class that likes to enchant weapons and use lots of other swift action arcana, it's a real kick in the nuts.

Not really. If you grab the Enduring Blade magus arcana, then you drastically improve the duration of your arcane pool enhancements. It goes up to something like 1 minute/level. Meaning you can use an enhancement once and be good for an entire combat, sometimes two.

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And losing spell recall as well as being unable to spell combat with a metamagiced spell without a feat investment just digs the archetype a deeper grave.

You don't "lose" spell recall. Note that this archetype does not trade improved spell recall. That means that you don't receive spell recall until 11th level, when you'd normally receive improved spell recall. So it is delayed, but not gone forever.

With the right bloodline, this archetype is nasty. For example, one of the fey bloodline abilities gives you a constant haste effect for those two rounds while you're in a mystic trance. It only costs 1 arcane point (compared to a similar magus arcana that costs 2 points, but lasts for 1 round/level) and when you activate mystic pool, you're gaining access to all of the bloodline abilities that you possess for 2 rounds as a swift action at the cost of 1 arcane point. That's three "super" magus arcana for 2 rounds for 1 point.

I think this archetype is fantastic, personally.


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Alexander Augunas wrote:


On the other hand, most magus arcana have an instantaneous duration, meaning that you use the swift action once and gain no benefits after the round ends. In some regard, the bloodrager bloodlines are like a handful of extra magus arcana that you receive while leveling up, only they're much more powerful than standard magus arcana.

Some of them are. Eventually. But hitting against touch AC for a round is incredibly strong, even if it lasts half the duration of the bloodlines. Really, I only see Arcane and Destined as ever being close to worth it. Fey is pretty poor when Hasted Assault (which only costs one arcane point) lasts longer and comes earlier than Quickling Bloodrage. I'll admit that at very high levels this archetype redeems itself a bit once things like Unstoppable come online, but that's well beyond PFS levels and the early level nerfs really hurt until then.

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Not really. If you grab the Enduring Blade magus arcana, then you drastically improve the duration of your arcane pool enhancements. It goes up to something like 1 minute/level. Meaning you can use an enhancement once and be good for an entire combat, sometimes two.

50% of your swift actions is still 50% of your swift actions. Enduring Blade helps, but it's only a part of the swift action bottleneck. It also costs you an arcana to learn and an extra arcane point every time you use it, so you're paying for this archetype in a lot of places.

Quote:
You don't "lose" spell recall. Note that this archetype does not trade improved spell recall. That means that you don't receive spell recall until 11th level, when you'd normally receive improved spell recall. So it is delayed, but not gone forever.

You do, in fact, lose spell recall, because you have no prepared spells to regain. Even if we chalk this up to another ACG editing mishap and say that it gives you back spell slots instead, you're at the mercy of the GM because it would require rewriting the ability. And even then, the trade is a significant drawback.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Stark_ wrote:


You do, in fact, lose spell recall, because you have no prepared spells to regain. Even if we chalk this up to another ACG editing mishap and say that it gives you back spell slots instead, you're at the mercy of the GM because it would require rewriting the ability. And even then,...

So you would end up with a useless class feature? This seems like something that was an oversight, I suppose Paizo will change it on a second print.


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At the moment the eldritch scion is just a band aid for a class many (or at least me) wished for. I realy hope that paizo updates the class/archetype/Book in a timely fashion.
But i am almost certain they added the archetype at the last minute.

My biggest offenders with the archetype are.

-1 Arcane pool point for 2 rounds, all things considered, is silly for a class that can have/use so many swift actions. And most costs points too. So, depending on your bloodline, you will use most if not all your points just to activate your bloodline powers and avoid arcana/feats that costs swift action/points. Or you kind of "avoid" your Bloodline. But then except for seriously waked roleplay reasons there is no point in picking this archtype.

I would like to see a base mystic fokus pool of charisma mod + half class level (or maybe every fourth class lvl) and the option as a swift action to spend a number of arcane pool points(more then one at a time) to get extra rounds, every points spend adds 2 rounds to the pool. Considering you get no other benefits from rage then the activation of your bloodline abilitys and this could includes even the normaly for the bloodrager constant ones, i seriously doubt this is even close to overpowered.

This way MAYBE they could have consider the other way around (rage for arcane) as a high lvl archetype/class feature, but to be fair, it sounds and is overpowered at least if they not nerf the ratio hard.

Yes this COULD double your pool but half of it would only be used for your bloodline and this way you are not out of "ammo" so ridiculous fast.
Just as a reminder the bloodrager gets 4 + con mod + 2 per lvl after 1lvl.

As it playes now, it feels like they replaced arcana with a gutted and bandaided rage. Except for the bloodlines.
As it is now, i would take a weaker version of real bloodrage in place of arcana i dont have the pool to support anyway.

-At the very least consider making this a free action and/or up the rounds. Yes as a free action you will plow through your resources even faster but at least you can/wlll play some kind of a shotgun character...in close range.... with one shot.

-The archetype/book is plaqued with errors.
as examples the posts above mine or these ones:

Bonus Spells
At 7th level, an eldritch scion gains the bonus spell from his bloodrager bloodline that is normally gained at 10th level. He gains the next three bonus spells from his bloodline at 9th, 11th, and 13th levels, respectively

ok understandable but just as example here the bonus spells from draconic bloodline.

Bonus Spells:
Shield (7th), resist energy (10th), fly (13th), fear (16th)

know let the confusion begin!......

.... yea i am not stupid, mostly likely the intend was that you get the later spells sooner, but if you play it like it is written where do you get your 7lvl spell? after the 10lvl spell or is it now the last in line? Or nothing, because there is no 5 spell in any bloodline.

And an other one, are the bloodline abilitys that are constant for the bloodrager also constant for the Eldritch Scion?

And what personaly grinds my gears.

-The magus skillpoints per lvl (2+int mod) is mostly likely balanced around the fact that he is a int caster class to begin with, with this archetype he doesnt need int that much so his skill points should go up to 4 +int mod. I bet, with all the other errors etc. with the book, this was an oversight.
I seriously dont believe they expect me to put points into int, too. The archetype/class is mad enough as it is.

-Carrying on with the Bloodline theme paizo should have strongly considered giving it "eschew materials" as a bonus feat.

-that i need the Spontaneous Metafocus feat to metamagic a spell with spellcombat now.

And no, i dont consider bandaiding serious flaws in the archetype with heavy investment in feats and/or maybe even arcana, good practice.

And yes i hate it and i will play it anyway just because there is no other option then 3rd party for this type of class.

I seriously dont want to sound ungrateful and i apologies if it sounds that way, but i wished for the class/archetype and now that is here it walks on crutches.

On a side note i hate that there is no "good" necromancer possible, i like the white necromancer but its 3rd party.

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