Wearing armor may be a better option, but that's not always an option you can take. Second Skin armor that blends seamlessly in with your character's skin not withstanding, there will be times when wearing armor and visibly carrying weapons is a Bad Idea. But having a space suit available would be socially acceptable in those situations, assuming you need the environmental protection.
Or you're on your ship. Does the party wear their armor 24/7, even to bed? Probably not. You don your armor when you're expecting trouble. Such as when you know you're about to explore an unknown planet. Otherwise, the party's weapons and armor are probably locked up in the ship's armory. And since it doesn't specify how long it takes to put on a space suit, it's probably no more difficult then pulling on a normal outfit.
I don't know about you, but I can get dressed in maybe 15-20 seconds tops. Putting on shoes might take a bit longer, but not by much (once I get to it). That's from pulling cloths out of dresser to they're on my body in at most 20 seconds. I might still be putting on a belt by that point (if I need one), but I'm essentially done getting dressed. And if I'm in a hurry, I'll opt for pants that don't need a belt anyway.
Beyond which, having a cheep backup isn't a bad idea anyway. It's not comb at worthy, but you're not buying it for combat usage.
I'd think having a space suit would be a Good Idea since you might not have time to done armor, but a space suit you may be able to get into easier. If for some reason your ship suffers atmospheric loss for example, you might not have time to pull on a suit of armor properly. It's one of those "I may never actually need it, but if I do I'll be in trouble if I don't have one" situations. And for 25 credits, why not have one?
I've been in a campaign of D&D that had 10 people once. But I've always felt it gets too difficult to GM both due to balance and trying to focus on everyone if the group's larger then five or six people (at most).
Still reading the ship combat rules myself. I did just by Starfinder last night after all. But right now I'm picturing mystics to be like the vorlon (I think) from Babylon 5. The B5 sequel series Crusade also has a good example of how to work a technomage into a space epic.
And remember, second skin armor may well be the kind nobody knows you're wearing. If it's color matches your skin tone it'll seamlessly blend in with your actual skin.
For my first Starfinder character (an Android Technomage) I opted to go with a laser pistol, second skin armor, an extra battery for the laser pistol, a tier 2 miniaturized computer, engineering toolkit, hacking toolkit, a hygiene kit, 2 weeks of trail rations, travel cloths, and I'm thinking of spending my last 3 credits on a consumer backpack.
I would think that non-androids would want a space suit though.
Yeah, gathered that from looking at the armor upgrades list. The fact that in SFS character creation you're limited to only level 1 or 2 armors, that's far rougher. Not that I could have afforded a level 3 armor and gotten a weapon plus basic gear (such as tool kits, cloths, and food).
Ah, my search fu was weak. I'd thought it would have no effect due to androids not having a Hardness rating. But as written it is ambiguous. Not many good options for a level 1 character are there?
That's my first thought, and it's kind of obvious the Android "upgrade slot" ability was not considered when making that armor upgrade. Thus the confusing interaction. And why I thought I'd check if there's an official ruling on this edge case.
Maybe my search fu is weak. It probably is. But I've got a question that could make a difference depending on what the answer is.
While buying equipment, I decided to look at armor upgrades since androids can slot a light armor upgrade in addition to any they put on their armor. Here's the ability that allows this:
Starfinder CRB page 42 wrote:
UPGRADE SLOT
Androids have a single armor upgrade slot in
their bodies. Regardless of whether androids
are wearing physical armor, they can use this
slot to install any one armor upgrade that
could be installed into light armor.
Then I noticed
Starfinder CRB page 207 wrote:
TENSILE REINFORCEMENT
When calculating your armor’s hardness and Hit Points (see
page 409), treat it as if its item level were 5 higher.
That's pretty strait forward, initially. This would mean if that's slotted into my Second Skin armor it would have a hardness of 5+(2x6), or 17 hardness. And the armor would have 15+(3x6), or 33 Hit Points. Not bad for level 1 armor.
The question I'm having is... What happens if I apply Tensile Reinforcement to my android's armor upgrade slot?
What's the current tier for next planned adventure? Also, is the group full yet? If the 'table' has openings and the tier's right, I could bring in either my ectoplasmist spiritualist (level 3) or my -1 Kahel, who is level 5. That I'm reluctant to do though since the local lodge is running stuff for level 5 characters, and if I'm using Kahel here I can't join other sessions with her.
SOrry for the absence. Got sucked into Sims 3 for a bit. Uhm, the gameplay link is leading to the Online Campaigns top page. So, where IS the play thread
And while you can run modules such as Crypt of the Everflame in PFS Organized play, it can definitely require some thought to explain pathfinders are going on the adventure. Mostly because the modules make assumptions on character backstory. Crypt of the Everflame for instance assumes the characters are from the village. Sure it works out well if everyone is playing a brand new character since at the end the PCs are offered the chance to join the pathfinder society. But when I ran it for a group of level 2 PFS characters I had to come up with a valid reason for the Society to send these people to take part in a local rite of passage.
Just seems like a bad idea to me. If the party's APL is 1-2, why the frell do you want to bring a level 5 or level 7 character into the adventure? Either pull out one of your low level characters, or grab a pregen.
Very true BNW. I personally ban anything from books I don't actually have. But that's because if I don't have the book, I have no idea if the person is cheating or not. Even if it's accidental cheating due to not understanding an option, I can't catch it if I don't have the book.
With PFS Organized Play I don't have to own and memorize every single book. It's up to the player to bring their copy of the book and/or provide me with a printout with the requisite rules. I personally printed out the entire Kineticist section and bring that with me. If the GM has a question (or if I do) I can just hand over the required page. I also print out the required pages for all my other Standard characters. You know, pages with a feat, archtype, spell, or other non CRB option I'm using. Makes it easier for the GM to adjudicate my characters.
I don't expect players to go to those lengths for me. But I DO expect them to have ready access to any AR book they are using for their character.
What you'd do is the Alternate Form power it's self is Always On. This is where you have your intangibility and any attribute changes. Then you do any other water based powers as a separate array. You could then presumably create his "original form" however you like, giving it the Duration: Concentration flaw. If you desired, you could also add a Power Loss flaw to the array so that those powers are unavailable when shifted into your human appearance.
Mind you, not sure if one way transformation is available in 3rd edition. I've used it in 2nd edition for sure.
*experiments and frowns*
Hmm, looks like you need to use a complication to have an alternate form be "always on" now. But you CAN have your normal appearance as an Alternate Effect via alternate form. This would prevent you from using any powers while in the alternate form. Which is in it's self a drawback.
Essentially, yeah. It is called Organized Play after all. There's standardized character creation, special restrictions such as "no crafting" to ensure balance, and so forth. Which is convenient, especially for conventions. I can bring my character portfolio and provided I have a character in valid level range and I'm able to play the scenario, I can sit down at any PFS session.
Even then, looks to me like it's very unusual items or unique items that get statted out in the boon. But yeah, you do still need the Additional Resource book to actually use any non-CRB item, even if it's been granted as a boon. That's why I bought the Blood of Angels player companion when I knew I'd be getting an Aasimar race boon. And don't regret it one bit. So many useful options for aasimar in it.
Both seem like bad ideas. Either the higher level player will dominate everything (if the group is low subtier) or the low level player will feel useless. Not to mention, if a level 6 joins a group of level 1 characters... they're going to drag the party level up to the point most of the group will probably struggle to survive.
Why would the owner of a game store be "all over that" if their store doesn't host a PFS lodge? And wouldn't it be up to the person who organized a lodge to add said lodge's location anyway?
The problem was that NOBODY was making the save. Thus our characters were fully convinced there was a statue. While we knew there was an illusion of some sort, the party came to the conclusion (in character) that the illusion was hiding what we were fighting. Or maybe hiding any damage to the very dangerous statue. Oh sure, as players we all knew what was going on. But nobody was using that knowledge to meta-game. It was bloody hilarious. Then again, I find that so far anytime there's an illusion involved things quickly devolve into a 3 stooges routine as people fail their saves and react accordingly.
Obvious to the players isn't always the same as obvious to the characters.
WHile many of the PbP games here on the paizo forums aren't sanctioned PFS sessions, some are.
LegitName, Pathfinder Society, or PFS is a short hand term for Pathfinder Society Organized Play. It's the officially sanctioned organized play format. It's intended to let people reliably join a session, and is great for things like conventions or gaming night at the local hobby shop. If you're familiar with D&D's Living Grayhawk, it's basically the same thing.
All PFS sanctioned sessions are set in the official Pathfinder world setting, and the default assumption is that all player characters are members of the Pathfinder Society. There's many different lodges, which may have conflicting goals and ideologies. And the scenarios explore these ideologies to one extent or another.
Each scenario is designed to be run in about 3-5 hours or so and are usually self contained adventures. Even when there's several scenarios which are part of an overall story arc each one is generally self contained. The scenarios are then divided into "seasons". These go from Season 0 (original scenarios written when Pathfinder was a world setting for 3.5 D&D) to Season 8 (current season). Most seasons have an overarching story line such as trying to reassemble the Sky Key from season 6, I think. But again, each individual scenario is generally a stand alone adventure.
PFS character creation is standardized, so there's no table variation in what classes/races are allowed. And other then the CRB, you must actually own a physical copy or watermarked pdf of any given book to use anything within said books. Although there are a LOT of restrictions even if a book is allowed. Always a good idea to regularly check the Additional Resources page to see if something has changed.
For example, in season 7 Kitsune are an allowed race, assuming you have the right additional resources books (advanced race guide or something else that details the race). Aasimar were (and probably still are) a Boon race, meaning that even if you have the right books you can't play an aasimar without an appropriate chronicle boon. But at one point aasimar were available as a standard race in PFS.
You know those situations where there's an illusion, everyone KNOWS it's an illusion, but nobody can make their will saves even with the bonus for being told it's an illusion?
Well, I can't remember which scenario it was exactly. But the party encountered a statue. Now, this statue was an illusion. This quickly became rather obvious. Heck, one of the magic users used Detect Magic nd informed us it felt like illusion magic. And yet, none of us could make the will save. Now, the non-existent statue was blocking a door. And it looked too heavy to move. So naturally the idea came about to destroy the statue.
The barbarian takes a swing, and accidentally hits the door, chipping it. But fails the new will save granted by interacting with the statue. So my kineticist tosses an elemental blast at the statue. I fail MY will save, and accidentally hit a party member on the other side of the "statue". Thankfully the damage is very low. But since nobody could see through the illusion, we came to the conclusion of "Oh gods, the statue is ANIMATED!" Cue the party going into combat rounds against a statue that isn't actually there.
Eventually someone did destroy the door, quite by accident. And we did eventually see through the illusion. But until that happened the party was in a life or death battle with an illusionary statue... and losing.
Also, what city should this be set in? Metropolis? Gotham? Center City? Star City? Blüdhaven? Another? Or perhaps one of our own devising?
Hydronaut or Typhoon (it's one of those two) is from Coast City, but he's very mobile.
I'll see if I can work in permanent power for the alternate form. I know it's cost-neutral by itself but I'd like him to have some ability to look like a 90% normal person. I know a Morph effect can do it, but that's five points to dig up somewhere. :)
How about adding Always On to your alternate form. Then you can have another alternate form that's cosmetic only (original appearance) that has a duration of Concentration? This way you can appear normal, but it's an effort of will.
Alternately, is it possible to have a one way transformation into your liquid form? This way you have to do something specific to return to your normal form. Such as possibly having to take a special formula that must be mixed up fresh each time due to the active ingredients going inert within minutes of being mixed together.
Or Keystone as well. Setting it an a well established city could provide ready to use villains, but it might be interesting to have a new location with some new villains in addition to existing villains. Miss Meow is from Gotham, but has spent a lot of time fighting crime in both Metropolis and Central City too. But with her in a new dimension (or possibly just an alternate timeline) she could be anywhere now.
I just finished tweaking a second power setting for my Crime Fighting Equipment variable power. Initially I was envisioning it as the Adam West batman's utility belt of Convenient Plot Devices. But now I'm thinking it's specific equipment loadouts she takes out into the field. The first one is her normal costume and a utility belt. The second one is basically her powered Crisis armor. Basically Miss Meow's version of Batman's power armor. An armored costume that gives Toughness 4 (is not Impervious), an extra +2 to Strength, a grapple gun, and a rocket assisted glide pack. 15 PP doesn't go very far after all.
It seems insubstantial is the theme of submissions. Either one of us is getting in or this is going to be the JLA:Team Squishy.
You saying this team needs a tank? I could look at something like that for my submission...
My justification is that Miss Meow was wearing her summer costume when she arrived. You know, a silk costume which is not armored, thus relying on her speed and agility to avoid being hit. Her regular armored costume, and crisis power armor are both back in her original dimension, in the Kitty Kave. Hey, give her a break. She was seven.
That said, she could have body armor, but it's at the expense of her other utility belt gear. Things like her bolos and healing stim injectors can't be used if she has her armored costume
Exactly. The treasure you (the party) loot doesn't generally get tracked. Of course by the time the party is regularly looting eight suits of full plate armor, someone probably has a bag of holding. At which point you probably don't need to worry about such minor things as "how do we carry the armors".
Role Play On-Line, the site's name says it all. It's a site dedicated to play-by-post role-playing. It hosts games for pretty much any and all game systems, any genre, and free-form games that don't actually use a rule system.
When it does matter, such as the party has to lug around a chest full of gold, then yes the weight of that money is tracked.
As for hero lab, there a few cravats to keep in mind. FIrst of all, Hero Lab is NOT a legal source of rules for PFS play. It can be a good reference, but you do need the actual rule books your character uses. Hero Lab can, and sometimes does, have errors. Those errors tend to get fixed fairly quickly, but they can exist.
Using Hero Lab to run your character is PFS legal. It is after a tool for creating characters, and an effective digital character sheet. It helps track various math such as buffs, status ailments, and so forth. Thus can make it easier to track the changing situation in combat.
What it doesn't do is know if your PFS table tracking coin weight or not. The "track coin weight" option is there to enable or disable depending on what the GM is doing. If the campaign is hyper realistic and you track the weight of every copper carried, enable coin weight in the options. If the GM says he's not worrying about the weight of gold coins, disable the option.
In general, PFS doesn't seem to use coin weight. But there may be table variation.
Nope, none at all. It's just branded and includes officially sanctioned stats for DC heroes and villains. Interestingly, I believe it gives Batman an Int score of 8, thus proving he is in fact a metahuman.
Well, that and the fact the duplicates use Minion rules thus get knocked out fairly easily... right?
Also, for those not aware... 7 is the maximum possible attribute and to still be considered an unpowered non-meta. Although, from looking at the stats of Nightwing and Green Arrow, Fighting appears to not have the same limitation. Probably because it represents skill in combat rather then raw physical or mental ability.
Born Kate Newlin, she was eight years old when Braniac invaded. She doesn't remember much about the initial attack. Just that she woke up in a large pod, with a kind sounding woman's voice telling her she had to escape. Scared and alone, she reluctantly found herself fighting her way through what proved to be an alien space ship. At the time Kate hadn't noticed how much she had changed. That day was just the start of two years of constant battle against Evil.
Perhaps that constant war was due to who took her in. The Batman wasn't exactly a friendly person. In fact he could be called a slave driver. But Kate didn't care. Her parents were dead and her life had been ruined. It's impossible to have a normal life when you've found yourself as a white and green furred cat girl. Being sent into the field every night didn't help either. But that was because of the massive influx of new villains.
But now the ten year old heroine doesn't know what to do. Something went wrong on her last mission for Superman. She managed to save a police lab technician named Barry Allen from time traveling criminals. Yet on the return trip the time corridor collapsed around Miss Meow. Looking around, she wasn't in Central City. And her com unit couldn't connect to the Watchtower.
Obviously something has happened. And equally obviously this isn't her Earth. And yet, there still is far too much crime. So the war continues. This may not be her Earth, but it's still Earth. And she'll die before she lets evil win.
In addition, there's RPOL.net to consider. While it's not specific for PFS, you can set up or possibly find the occasional session there. I've ran We Be Goblins on RPOL as a pfs modul, for example.
Advantages
Evasion, Hide in Plain Sight, Jack-of-all-trades
Skills
Acrobatics 11 (+18), Close Combat: martial arts 7 (+13), Investigation 4 (+6), Perception 8 (+12)
Powers Animal Senses: Senses 3 (Acute: smell, Low-light Vision, Tracking: smell 1: -1 speed rank)
Cat Claws: Strength-based Damage 3 (kinetic, DC 21; Increased Range: ranged [1 rank only])
climbing claws: Movement 2 (Wall-crawling 2: full speed)
Variable: Variable 3
. . Utility Belt (Powers: Bolo: Cumulative Affliction 1, Communication: Radio Communication 2, Health stim: Healing 2, Movement: Movement 1)
. . . . Bolo: Cumulative Affliction 1 (technological, 1st degree: Hindered and Vulnerable, 2nd degree: Defenseless and Immobilized, Resisted by: Dodge, overcome by Damage or Sleight of Hand, DC 11; Cumulative, Extra Condition, Increased Range: ranged; Limited Degree)
. . . . Communication: Radio Communication 2 (technological)
. . . . Health stim: Healing 2 (technological; Unreliable (5 uses))
. . . . Grapple Gun: Movement 1 (Swinging) (technological
Power Settings Utility Belt (Powers: Bolo: Cumulative Affliction 1, Communication: Radio Communication 2, Health stim: Healing 2, Grapple Gun: Movement 1)
Complications
Obsession: Justice: Perhaps it's having the mindset of Batman forced into her young brain. Perhaps it's the fact that her parents are dead, leaving Kate an orphan. Who knows really. What matters is that she can easily lose herself in the hunt for Vengence, or maybe Justice. Even she's unclear. So long as there's a crime going on somewhere, Kate has trouple taking care of herself. SHe'll drive herself into exhaustion and beyond to fight crime, skip meals because it takes too much time out of her eternal hunt. Well, maybe not tuna. Nothing is more important then eating tuna.
Obsession: Tuna: Kate Naowth loves tuna. Although that is putting it mildly. When she smells that most delectable of fish, she loses all control. It's worse then catnip to her. She'll go through anything, maul anyone, all to reach and consume tuna. This can be a problem.
Even when I was first starting to roleplay I viewed it as a colab story telling session. Sure Hero Quest and similar simplistic introductory rpg like games were an "us vs him" experience. But even then it was about the story more then about the Dungeon Master trying to kill the players. Yes, the monsters did their best to kill the players. But each game was a storytelling session. A basic storytelling session where the story was given at the beginning to explain why the heroes need to kill X monster. But the published scenarios DID have a story to them.
The old West End Games ghostbusters rpg exemplified the idea of gaming as a storytelling session. The GM wasn't allowed to kill the players. Not unless they did something terminally stupid, and refused to back down after being warned three times about the action. THe example given for this rule was a nuke going off underneath the Ecto 1. Yet the players are blackened (maybe radiation poisoning for a few months), but otherwise fine. Unless they themselves put the nuke down there and armed it. Then you give three warnings, allowing them to retract the fatal action. Only if they still went through with it could the nuke atomize them.
That's the system I learned to GM with. ANd the lessons stuck with me all these years. I don't go out of my way to kill the players. Nor do I softball things. I can make hard adventures when I sit down to create one. But never impossibly difficult. I like to playtest the encounters I'm unsure about to see if they're too much for the expected party composition.
Not that you can do that in PFS. You play the scenario as it's written. If there's specific tactics listed, those get used unless the players completely disrupted the tactics. Even if using those tactics is a horribly bad idea, such as trying to cast a Polymorph Self spell in melee combat then fleeing. Can you say AOO storm? I knew you could!
*thinks* I know! I could use Miss Meow, based on my DC Universe Online character. Picture a young girl who got caught up in Braniac's invasion. Her parents are dead. She has Batman's martial arts skills shoved into her brain, and suddenly has the ability to rapidly create various 'gadgets' out of pieces of scrap. Oh, and had found herself transformed into a green and white furred neko-jin, complete with feline instincts and an obsessive love of tuna.
I'd be up for it. I could either bring in Susan Swan (inventor type), or Sparrow Hawk. Who is a genetic experiment by some badguy group that didn't go as well as the crooks wanted. Namely, is a heroic individual.
I dislike dump stats because of the mindset behind it. Such as "I'm a (insert class), I don't need charisma so I'll put it as low as I can and pump up this other stat". This creates cookie cutter builds, and it's all for a slight mechanical advantage. Or someone going "I only get two skill points to begin with, so I'll dump Int and just make a human".
The dump stat culture encouraged by point buy stats encourages seeking a slight advantage for as minimal of a penalty. You end up with a slew of dumb and uncharismatic fighters just so they can hit a little harder. They aren't taking a low stat because it fits the person they are envisioning, they take it just because it will raise something else.
I recently played a Hideouts and Hoodlums adventure with a character who had 7 Int and 5 Wisdom. The rest of his attributes ranged from 9 to 12, with charisma being a shocking 14. Combined with rolling the absolute minimum possible for hit points (3), many people would have considered the character to be unplayable. Me, I took these rather low stats (especially mental ones) and his astonishingly high starting funds (rolled max possible), and came up with the idea that he's a stunt man who stars in a group of movie serials called The Brick Wall. A serial that follows the adventures of the title armored shield wielding hero. Keep in mind this is a game set in the 1930's and 40's.
Due to his lowish Intelligence and horrible wisdom, he keeps mistaking real crimes for the stunts he's suppose to be doing as promotions for the movie serials. His armor and shield are fully functional because he REALLY needs them to actually survive some of the stunts he preforms. But he's actually good at his job, and can pull off a good enough screen presence to draw a lot of fans of the serials.
At one point in the adventure he was talking to his boss at the studio, explaining why he wasn't at the publicity stunt. The following dialog came about.
Boss: "Why in Sam Hill weren't you at the stunt? I should fire you right now!"
Brick Wall: "I... uh... Sorry boss. I thought the fire was the stunt. Thought the script got changed again and nobody told me."
Boss: "You WHAT?!" *radio broadcast mentions that movie icon Brick Wall was involved in catching an arsonist* "Seriously Sam? Again? Keep this crap up and you're going to ruin the studio's reputation!"
Brick Wall: "Uhm... boss, I'm kinda still investigating the arson. I have a lead, don't worry! This should be wrapped up by tomorrow, no problem. Plenty of time for next Wednesday's shoot. Besides, uh, wouldn't it be great publicity if the Brick Wall was real? Can I borrow the helmet with a radio built in tonight?"
If it hadn't have been for the weird confluence of low Int/wis, average physical stats, good charisma, and being rich... I'd likely have never come up with the idea of a slightly dim witted actor who keeps blundering into real crimes, thinking they're stunts for his movie serials. Seriously, after catching the arsonist he then returned, handed the crook to a police officer (thinking the police, fire fighters, and other superhero were all fellow stunt men), then bowed and said to the crowd of bystanders
"Thank you for watching the performance! For the further adventures of The Brick Wall make sure to go see Brick Wall vs the Screaming Skulls part one, in theaters next Saturday!"
Dwarven druid with a pet can be functional as long as you've got a 12.
Or a gnome summoner with an eidolon, or an elven wizard/arcanist summoner... but what you're doing in those cases is consigning your crappy ability score array to what is essentially a supporting cast-member to the real character, the pet. Whose stats don't depend on the luck of your dice.
But beyond the functionality of the rolls, consider what the arrays might suggest about the character's backstory and personality. That to me is the real benefit of using a random roll setup. I made a character for Heroes Unlimited 2nd Edition once and rolled 30 for Intelligence, the absolute maximum possible. I then rolled my character's education level and power category randomly, got "never graduated grade school" and "hardware: Analytical"
What this told me was that my character was a natural genius who probably couldn't focus in school. It was too boring, she'd learned this stuff and beyond on her own. In fact, it told me her self study had touched on pretty much everything, especially in scientific and engineering fields. The power category was basically "you're an inventor who can build anything even if not quite as well as more specialized inventors, figure out how to use anything from ancient magical artifacts to the most advanced of alien devices, oh and you have a bit of a specialty in making armors/power armors". This despite never graduating grade school.
In 2nd edition, the only "worthless" character really was someone who doesn't have a single 9 in their attributes. And that was because you didn't even qualify as a fighter, thief, cleric, or wizard. Yes, higher attributes helped. And yes, low attributes hurt you in some way. For example a wizard with 9 Int has fewer maximum spells known per level, lower maximum spell level known, and a much harder time learning new spells. But they were still fully capable of contributing. High strength didn't really affect melee as much as you might think until it got into the 16+ range. Most of the benefits/penalties were carrying capacity and the chances to break down or force open a door. You get the idea.
And if you weren't a warrior, it didn't matter if your Con was 14 or 34. You got an extra +2 hit points a level, and that was it. Of course you did get bonuses or penalties to poison and disease saves based on con. But these didn't matter as much as your level when it came to saves. High attributes were more a concern because you needed rather difficult to roll arrays for classes like Paladin, Bard, or Druid. A specialist wizard was easier to make, but still might require 2 attributes to be rather high. Of course, you also had to roll your level 1 hit points too. So it was fully possible to make a fighter with 1 Hit Point at level one.
That said, there's nothing wrong with rolling attributes. Several rather good systems use dice roll systems of various types. Palladium Games uses 3d6 down the line, with an extra 1d6 if you rolled a 16-18, and possibly another 1d6 if the bonus die comes up as a six. Thus giving a range of 3-24 or 30 for attributes. D&D and Pathfinder by default uses 3d6 down the line for stats, but provides several alternate rolling methods or even a point buy system for attributes if you don't like random stats. Hideouts and Hoodlums is rather fun, and uses 3d6 down the line too.
Systems that fully use point buy such as Gurps, Champions, or Mutants & Masterminds are great for giving you full control over making your character. If it doesn't turn out how you like, you weren't trying hard enough. But they also tend to use a checks and balances system. Spend too many creation points on attributes, and you end up either taking a lot of disadvantages/flaws to afford skills, or you have little to no skills/powers/advantages.
Even a hybrid system like Pathfinder's point buy option tries to have checks and balances, but tends to encourage the idea of a "dump stat". And honestly, I'm not a fan of the dump stat. I've taken a low attribute (sometimes lower then intended) before, and will do so in the future. But it ends up in a case of "all fighters are idiots who couldn't talk their way out of a paper bag, and all casters are weak spindly things that can barely pick up a book."
