KLGChaos's page

DragonflyBlue wrote:

I ran 1-27 as well and had a hard time hitting the vanguard. Its almost as if you don’t want to pump your armor class.

I dunno. I think people fixate on entropy points and their problems too much.

I got to play a tanky guy with good melee damage, accuracy, skills, and survivability. With my disciplines I was able to shield off my allies.

I had a great time and entropy points didn't play a role in it. You don't have to get hit as a vanguard for things to work out right.

People fixate on entropy point problems because it's a huge class feature that can safely be ignored completely. That should never happen.

But it seems like the rest of the class is pretty good and does what it's supposed to do. A tank with some decent damage that can absorb the hits and protect its allies.

Aspects are underwhelming in general. As I've said, you could probably remove them altogether, substitute in a couple of Vanguard specific feats, and wouldn't notice a difference. Catalysts come way too late in leveling to be a huge factor and are too limited and weak, especially compared to things like Solarian Revelations which are a such a big part of that class.

Skillwise, 6 per level is great. I'm fine with them having their own skills set that doesn't cover every single thing. Though I do find it strange that most of their skills are based around Int, Wis and Cha.

I'm wondering how forgoing shields for two-weapon fightong would work out. I'm not sure if there would be a point outside having a couple different critical effect options.

KLGChaos wrote:

The Vanguard definitely seems really beefy. One question, how much use didn't they get out of their EP? How many EP did they gain over the course of the fight? It seems like slow can be really bad for a Vanguard as their lack of mobility is a huge limiting factor along with their lower damage. My biggest fear with the Vanguard is that while they're basically immortal (hyperbole) it seems like it would be very boring playing a class that can't be hurt, but also can't really do much offensively due to movement issues. They'd probably be more enjoyable to me if the were more the Juggernaut and less the Blob. But I understand it can be hard to balance a class like that.

As for EP, as I mentioned, I never really had to use it, as she never took enough damage to want to use mitigate. She probably gained about 2 or 3 total, though only the first one mattered.

One could argue that a slow spell would be a much bigger problem for an operative or soldier, who benefits from full actions a lot more than a vanguard does. It could get boring for a player if they get slowed a lot, but it that's true of any cc ability, and there are many.

Understood. The lack of EP is bothersome. If it's 4 EP (barring crits which are too unreliable) to use an Aspect Catalyst, I really don't see them being used that much. If the Vanguard really has as much health left as you said consistently, I see the improved versions happening even less. Heck, the aspects could probably be removed completely and you wouldn't see much difference in the class, which kind of sucks. Though this is based on other PCs who tend to have lower attacks bonuses than NPC enemies... And not sure if you wasted a move action to spend RP for EP. I really feel that should be a swift action instead of a move action, given the Vanguard's mobility issues.

Maybe I'll just forego trying to be this heavily defensive monstrosity and start purposely face tanking everything during my next playtest. Should be interesting to roleplay at least and it honestly seems like it'd be the more fun way to play because you can actually use your abilities more often (though they are still limited to once per combat, which kind of sucks).

The Vanguard definitely seems really beefy. One question, how much use didn't they get out of their EP? How many EP did they gain over the course of the fight? It seems like slow can be really bad for a Vanguard as their lack of mobility is a huge limiting factor along with their lower damage. My biggest fear with the Vanguard is that while they're basically immortal (hyperbole) it seems like it would be very boring playing a class that can't be hurt, but also can't really do much offensively due to movement issues. They'd probably be more enjoyable to me if the were more the Juggernaut and less the Blob. But I understand it can be hard to balance a class like that.

Biohacker seems like it may end up being a glass cannon type- like typical wizards, but with some great offensive abilities and buffs/debuffs. Might need some more defensive abilities to compensate.

Witchwarper seems more like a class that you can take down easily, but ONLY if you you play the class stupidly and don't take advantage of it's large toolkit. Being able to change to layout of a battlefield for defensive or offensive purposes. A smart Witchwarper will be a huge threat.

That seems to be a common theme with Vaguards. Their "EP doesn't matter". It's kinda disappointing that a major class feature can just be ignored.

WatersLethe wrote:

What's goofy about that build? Also, who defines goofiness and what level of goofiness is allowable for approved builds?

Multiclassing is inherently goofy, as are social/face characters bolted onto a combat class. I do; it depends.

I can agree about multiclassing. When every class has a powerful level 20 capstone ability and several other powerful abilities locked behind high levels, multiclassing becomes very unattractive.

Thrice Great Hermes wrote:

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

Thrice Great Hermes wrote:

The Solarian already represents a melee focused class fueled by the cosmic powers of energy represented by Stars and entropy represented by Blackholes.

The Solarion represents an offense focused class.

With Vanguard we have defense.

The Solarian is already contains what the Vanguard was created to represent. The Solarian has the potential to be a shield as well as sword, abilities that built off Solar Armor could have done that.

And the Solarion can still have abilities that build off solar armor while the Vanguard exists, they’re both distinct and different enough in how they go about their defense options.

And that's fine. The Vanguard will probably be fine for the niche that it's in, it's just much more limited than the Solarian. That's more a result of the EP system, though. It's got some kinks.

I definitely think Vanguard can have its own niche. It wouldn't even bother me if they were straight up explicitly another form of Solarian. What matters most is that it offers a fun chassis for several different builds that function differently enough.

I would say a high HP, con-focused class was missing, especially one that has abilities to make standing out from behind cover a viable prospect. As far as I'm aware, even graviton armor solarians don't walk around the battle field with impunity.

Does the current Vanguard deliver on this concept? I would say, with the addition of shields, not really because now shielded solarians are getting really hard to hit too.

I think the vanguard is missing something to make them pop. I sort of wish they could get a pool of temporary HP like energy shields built in, and use that for EP generation so they don't have to be masochists.

That would be cool. Though even then, it still doesn't solve the problem of needing to be hit, and getting hit fairly hard (especially if you have DR feats), to generate resources. But that's another debate.

Maybe Vanguard should have a more risk/reward playstyle thats more controllable. The good ol' cast from Hit Points thing would make more sense than needing to face tank bullets and would be far more reliable and strategic to use. All that extra health from Con could be used to power various offensive and defensive abilities.

KLGChaos wrote:

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

Thrice Great Hermes wrote:

The Solarian already represents a melee focused class fueled by the cosmic powers of energy represented by Stars and entropy represented by Blackholes.

The Solarion represents an offense focused class.

With Vanguard we have defense.

Eh, I'd say Solar I an is flexible enough that it can go heavy offense or become a pretty great tank in it's own right. Solar Armor, slap on a shield, focus on graviton abilities and you've got a nice defensive character who has much better battlefield control and some nice offensive powers to boot when required.

I completely forgot they could get Solar Armor.

Looking over the Revelations and their stuff is more battlefield control than purely defensive like the Vanguard.

True. But they do get Dark Matter (up to 10 DR at 20th level when fully attuned), Gravity Anchor (protection from Trip and Bull Rush), Glow of Life (HP recovery), Reflection (reflect bullets as opposed to flattening them), Soul Furnace for extra protection against poison, disease and curses, Gravity Shield to provide cover for you and your allies.

Not to mention Armory revelations like Constructive Interference (extra resists), Burn Enchantment (better saves vs targets spells), Debris Field (Concealment), Particle Field (25 temp HP and fast healing 4), and Solar Fortification (crit protection).

So quite a few defensive abilities you go along with the damage and control abilities. As I said, Solarian is very flexible in its role. Vanguard feels more like "I'm a tank and that's it".

Thrice Great Hermes wrote:

The Solarian already represents a melee focused class fueled by the cosmic powers of energy represented by Stars and entropy represented by Blackholes.

The Solarion represents an offense focused class.

With Vanguard we have defense.

Eh, I'd say Solar I an is flexible enough that it can go heavy offense or become a pretty great tank in it's own right. Solar Armor, slap on a shield, focus on graviton abilities and you've got a nice defensive character who has much better battlefield control and some nice offensive powers to boot when required.

I feel like I've been a bit too harsh. Constructive critique is useful but just tearing into isn't.

I really like the vanguard, it's already got a lot going for it:
* It's a beefy melee class that can survive a pounding.
* It makes dexterity melee combat work.
* It gives you real choices on whether to stay in the weapons rat race or accept a slightly less tricked out weapon and spend all the money on something else. (I'm addicted to armor upgrades.)
* Many of the defensive disciplines feel like things I'd be happy to choose. Good defenses against both area attacks with evasion and poisons with the deconstruction thing is really nice for a melee character. Starfinder poison and disease are scary.

It's just that Entropy Points are presented as kinda a big deal, and I think that they're not. The things you can do with them aren't quite awesome enough, and getting them is not a reliable process.

So what would I change? I'd try to make sure every EP-using ability is designed along these guidelines:
* It makes sense to start using this in the middle of a combat, not at the start (when you don't have EP yet). So any buffs probably should be swift or move actions because in the middle of the combat you're not going to not make an attack because you're taking a break to buff.
* It's fairly reliable. It probably doesn't give enemies a save. You already had to pay for it with something that you don't have that much control over getting. Double uncertainty relegates an EP discipline to the bin of "I'll just take a different one that I know will work".
* It's not circumstantial. If you can only use it when you have an unreliable resource, then the opportunity to use it should not be too rare. When you (finally) get an EP, the opportunity to do something awesome with it should be easily available.

My impression with EP was a bit like the charge-up powers of the assassin in Diable II (yeah, I'm that old), or barbarians striking back when hit in Torchlight.

Ideas that come to mind:
* Spend an EP...

Agreed. I can't help but compared this class to Solarian (being the other melee focused class with special powers) and I can't help but think how integral Stellar Manifestations are compared to EP and Vanguard Aspects. Solarians have a nice ramp up mechanic with buffs early, powers to get you into combat quickly or control the battlefield, are avaialable quickly, and they have the ability to explode with an awesome ability by round 3. They have complete control over it and once they do explode, they get to do it all over again.

EP and Aspects are nice, but are unreliable to gain, and in some cases use, don't add a ton to the class and are of very limited use. They can (almost) comfortably be ignored and you can just focus on building the ultimate tank, relying on disciplines and feat instead. They feel less like part of the class as a whole and more something that was tacked on because it "sounds cool".

Can any character voluntarily get hit? Lile drop their dex to ac? If so i think this might solve a problem or two

Yes, though it'd probably make the enemy suspicious or pretty much think you're insane... And give your healer a heart attack. Seeing someone face tank an explosive blast without even trying to avoid it could be nice for intimidation tactics. You really have to avoid taking any damage resistance feats, though, or you may not even take enough damage to trigger an EP. Then you just got yourself hurt for no reason.

Yeah, that was my biggest fear-- being a tank actually negating your EP gain. And spending a move action and a RP or a crit to gain an EP really isn't worth it, especially when the abilites to spend them on are fairly lackluster. Accumulating 4 to use your Catalyst seems like it would be a chore and very hard to actually plan out or control, given the only other ways to activate it are a random crit against you or sp/hp reaching zero.

Entropic Strike sounds like its really good, though, with how versatile it is.

Good points and basically exactly what I was thinking. Especially point 4. The class has many ways to avoid and mitigate damage- heavy/power armor, the ability to invest heavily into Dex, shields, mitigate, DR feats. Not to mention randomness of enemy damage meaning you could still end up with zero points gained.

It actually almost seems counterintuitive to class design. You're a tank who needs to give up his tankiness to gain his primary resource to spend on the fun abilities. Most of which are highly limited anyway (once per combat or once per day).

And as you said, it promotes the class actively taking damage. This makes it harder and less fun for a Mystic who has to blow all his spells healing you after you waste all your stamina taking avoidable damage just so you can get enough points to use an ability. I guess maybe that's what they were doing for? Front load your points taking stamina damage and then start using points to mitigate hit point damage (though weapon damage far outclasses mitigate at higher levels).

My first impression was "Awesome! A melee tank type that gets better when it gets hit, with unique mechanics different from Melee Soldiers and isn't as MAD as Solarian." I like how Con is the key stat for their Entropic Strike and how being able to pump up Dex, while using some nice power armor, will allow me to deal moderate damage, while being hard to hit and still being good in ranged combat and starship gunnery. I like shields. I like the versatility on Entropic Strike. I like 6 sp per level.

Then I read more and I realized that the better I get at tanking, the worse I get at accruing entropy points unless I start blowing through resolve points. Several of my abilities are extremely limited in use, require getting crit (so fairly small chance), or cost a lot of EP to use, and are limited to once per combat/day/require 10 min rest period. It just seems the class idea (to be a tank who can take a lot of punishment and negate a lot of it, through high AC, heavy/power armor, mitigate, etc) clashes a bit with the rest of the concept.

Vanguard Aspects seem nice, but they're like more limited versions of Solarian Revelations, but I can see some nice combos with the Disciplines.

But I'll be replacing my Solarian with a Vanguard in our Starfinder/Mass Effect game and see how it plays out compared to the former. There's a lot of good stuff here, but I need to see how it plays in actual combat.

So, here's a question.. The Armory is going to have a fusion called Potent which increases the save DC of crit effects, other weapon fusions, weapon special properties and attacks delivered by the weapon (like poison) by 1. Would spellshot count as a delivered attack, thus boosting save DC of the technomancer's spells by 1?

I originally was all about the weapon, but I think I've changed my mind. The only real advantages it brings is a smaller cost factor and the ability to avoid disarm. Plus, you're going to want heavy armor which will cost a feat as well as movement. Cost factor may not be a big deal depending on where you're playing the game. If it's a home game where you can steal your enemies stuff, it could be much easier to get some better gear.

Solar Armor can provide the best AC in the game, lets you keep the maneuverability of light armor, and you can just use a big two handed melee weapon without wasting a feat, which should provide even more damage potential. Last I checked, all the photon mode bonuses and revelations apply to even regular weapons. It does have the issue of needing more Dex to be effective, which is where MAD hits a bit harder, but also opens up more ranged options to soften up targets before you go charging in.

So unless you just want the wow factor of wielding a weapon of light or fear being disarmed a lot, I'm leaning towards armor.

KLGChaos wrote:

Heck, 5E Barbarians can run around naked and have more survivability.

Well everyone going "GAH!" and closing their eyes does make you rather hard to hit...

Not if you also pump up the Barbarian's Charisma. ;)

Our game is atypical as I rolled stats for my guy and got great numbers so he doesn’t suffer from the MAD problem (though I also always roll in order, so he’s probably not built perfectly). We also have a mechanic, a soldier and a mystic. I play the role of captain in starship combat. I also have a habit of spreading skills widely rather than specialising, so that skews things somewhat (I’m a bit good at lots of things, but not much use outside of combat).

I’m doing pretty well keeping up with the soldier damage wise. I have been kinda fragile but it took me a long while to realise that light armour didn’t really cut it. I got heavy armour at level eight or nine and the boost was significant.

That fragility, on top of the MAD nature of the class, is what most people feel the biggest problem is and where the "feat tax" thing comes in.

That's why I'm puzzled as to why they didn't just have solarians have both solar weapon and solar armor as part of their kit. I'm assuming it's because they wanted people to have the option to go melee or ranged and having both would force a Solarian to be a melee combatant. But I don't feel they thought out the Solar Weapon part too well.

Heck, 5E Barbarians can run around naked and have more survivability.

KLGChaos wrote:

The problem with the comparison with Pathfinder and Starfinder and the tank debate is that there were usually multiple classes in melee and far less ranged attackers (unless you were fighting an army of archers or spellcasters).

Many times, a Solarian ends up being the only melee while most of your party (and your enemies) are using ranged weapons, probably from being cover. This makes Mr. Stand-Out-in-the-Open a prime target for focus fire. After all, why go for the the hevaily armored Soldier who's got partial cover or spend time looking for the hidden sniper when there's an easy, lightly armored target right out in the open.

I would suggest part of the problem here is poor judgement on the part of the Solarian PC. If the terrain is such that they can be readily focus fired by all enemies, than he shouldn't dive out to melee yet.

When should he engage in melee? When the enemies are positioned such that he has cover from most of them, possibly from their own bodies obstructing some of them. When his allied party members provide him with covering fire or other defensive advantages. When there's a specific enemy that is worth killing right now. When the enemies are of questionable discipline and morale, and a solarian with a giant flaming weapon stands a good chance of breaking them. When the Solarian has initiative advantage, and exploits that to basically act at both the end of one turn and the beginning of the next.

And if nothing like this applies? Stay in cover, and do something else. Pull out your sidearm and use it. Use special abilities that don't depend on melee. Do *something* to prove your not a one-trick pony who would rather die than do something other than your one trick.

While it's true they can wait for a better chance to go into combat, it's definitely inefficient. While the Solarian is waiting for an opportunity and using his weak small arms fire, the other classes are already unloading on the enemies. The casters are launching their spells, the Envoy and Mechanic are using their abilities, the Soldier is unloading with his heavy weapons and feats... Or even already charging into melee with his baseline heavy armor to protect him.

The Solarian is sitting in back, waiting for his full attunement and wondering why he's even there if he doesn't take the heavy armor feat. Chances are you'll attuning to photon at this point. The only ranged options for that would be Hypnotic Glow (which I'm not sure if anyone really uses that) or Sunbolt at level 14.

At this point I think it might just be better to take Solar Armor and buy a big two-hander. You'd probably do the same damage as with your solar weapon and have better defense.

The problem with the comparison with Pathfinder and Starfinder and the tank debate is that there were usually multiple classes in melee and far less ranged attackers (unless you were fighting an army of archers or spellcasters).

Many times, a Solarian ends up being the only melee while most of your party (and your enemies) are using ranged weapons, probably from being cover. This makes Mr. Stand-Out-in-the-Open a prime target for focus fire. After all, why go for the the hevaily armored Soldier who's got partial cover or spend time looking for the hidden sniper when there's an easy, lightly armored target right out in the open.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Hiruma Kai wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

What is there in the Solarions tool kit that lets them move in and move out on the same round without standing there as a glass cannon begging to be full attacked? Or sucking up the AOO for moving in and out?

Not every fight or enemy lends itself to this, but a reach weapon plus Stellar Rush lets you standard action charge, hit from 10 feet away, then move back.

How?

Stellar Rush (Su) [Photon mode]

As a standard action, you can wreathe yourself in stellar fire and make a charge without the penalties.

When you are attuned or fully attuned, you can substitute a bull rush for the melee attack at the end of the charge. Whether or not you succeed at the bull rush, the target takes 2d6 fire damage (Reflex half). This damage increases by 1d6 at 6th level and every 2 levels thereafter.

The square you have to go to and the fact that you stop is not "the penalties" its part of the charge rules. Unless you're combining it with something else i don't get how you're spring attacking with it.

You're missing the "As a standard action" part. As in, you're left with a move action remaining you can use to move away.

You'd have to choose your target carefully to avoid an AoO- sticking with ranged weapon users and the like.

I think Soldiers can do the same thing, though. And they get heavy armor for free.

Looking forward to the new book... Especially the class specific items.

I suppose the feat tax and MAD is somewhat easy to take care of for a melee solarian- just let them take both solar weapon and solar armor and allow them to add their charisma modifer to their AC, but still have it capped by the armors max dex. Then they wouldn't feel the need to take Heavy Armor as a proficiency and can stick with lighter armor and they can pump up Cha instead of worrying about Dex. Though I'm not 100% sure how strong solar armor is compared to soldiers with heavy armor at higher levels.

For ranged Solarians, maybe let them trade in their solar weapon for a longarm feat or something like that. I'd suggest allowing solar weapon to manifest as a ranged weapon, but I don't think it would play well with the system due to ammo consumption and the like.

There was a nice set of house rules someone made a while ago, but it only works for a Solar Weapon Solarian... Basically you get a boon (feats) every five levels that let you do things like create a second weapon (and use multi-fighting with it), use 1 1/2 x your strength for damage, give you solar weapon reach, etc. You lose the damage/reflex save bonuses from modes, but also add your charisma to your AC along with Dex (still limited by armor cap), which makes heavy armor less necessary. It looked pretty cool, but again, only affects solar weapon users.

My biggest fear with using house rules has always been maintaining balance. I don't want people playing other classes to feel like one class is being favored instead of fixed.

New classes would be nice, but I'd prefer to see them expand more on the current classes.

What we did was actually give you more options, not less. I will also add in that instead of getting a +1 to reflex you get a +1 to AC if in graviton mode. Which gives the player choice. Be defensive or offensive.

Example
Solarian:
2nd dark matter/stellar rush
4th gravity hold/plasma sheath
6th defy gravity/astrologic sense

So when you start combat...

OK, I see where you're coming from. You're more limited in being able to use powers freely from either, but having more revelations in your attuned mode gives you more options.

Question on Graviton AC bonus though- are you scaling it up with levels like reflex saves do or are you just keeping it at +1? It seems like it would be really powerful at high levels if you did. Solar Armor only gives +2 at 20 after all.

Perhaps if you also changed the rules that you didn't have to spend a dead turn (going from Photon to Graviton normally requires you to spend a turn unattuned first) then I could see locking the powers to only being usable while attuned.

There is an item level 11 ring that does this. If you choose to switch to the opposite mode, you can basically start with 1 rank in it so you don't have a dead round. Doesn't work after you use a Zenith Revelation because you can already instantly gain one rank during the next round anyway.

Still not 100% sure how I'm going to house rule Solarians in my game. I've seen a lot of good suggestions.

Whoops.. Just realized my last reply quoted the wrong post. That was meant to be directed at house rules for not being able to use powers without being attuened tp that specific mode.

I will add that the problem for my Solarion were compounded by the fact hat we had an Envoy who wanted to be captain, and a Mechanic who claimed the pilot position.

The Envoy claiming the captain position is what really made my position difficult for space combat, as I was at best a mediocre gunner (relying only on BAB) but I did have a skill point spent on diplomacy (because Jedi try diplomacy first)...but my ability in that was completely subsumed by the Envoy.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Having more revelations is nice, as is not worryng about disproportionate revelations. However, I feel it actually hinders a Solarian even more than the bse system.

A Solarian in Graviton mode can still Flare and blind enemies for a round or emit radiation for a round. In Photon mode, they can still use Anchor for a +4 bonus against bull rushes or use Gravity Boost to get to more advantages positioning. It feels like limiting them to only being able to use powers while attuned kills a LOT of combat options and penalizes them more than disproportionate revelations would, especially when they have to waste a couple rounds switching to the other mode.

I think the problem with Solarians is that while the concept is great, MADness aside, mechanically is has a couple of flaws.

1st issue- It has a feat tax. I understand that they want you to choose between solar weapons and solar armor, but no matter what you choose, it feels like you need to take a specific feat just to make sure the class works. If you take solar weapon, you're going to want heavy armor so you don't get completely destroyed in melee and to alleviate some of the MAD problems the class has by limiting the amount of Dex you need for AC. If you take solar armor and go for ranged, you're going to need to spend a feat on better ranged weapons. The only exception is if you're going with solar armor and melee- but then we once again run into the MAD problem again with having to take Str AND Dex.

2nd issue- Stellar Mode balance. This is really where the great concept, poor execution comes in, imo. The concept is clear- photon mode is your damage mode, graviton mode is your crowd control and utility mode. I think the expectation, especially with the unbalanced attunement penalty, is to use both modes, if not equally, with some sort of balance. But it doesn't work out that way. Graviton utility is situational but extra damage is almost ALWAYS useful. And photon's revelations provide that in spades. Even just being in the mode gives a straight damage buff- again, always useful where as better reflex saves are situationally useful. Add in being able to use a weaker, but still useful, form of graviton abilities without being attuned (minus zenith abilities) and there is little reason to leave photon mode. Plus, it's a bit of a nightmare trying to keep track off all the different bonuses you currently have active in each mode.

But those are honestly my only two problems with the class. I've seen a bunch of different house rules from allowing a Solarian to take both solar weapon and solar armor to removing the damage/reflex bonus and giving them Monk-like AC bonuses from Wisdom and specialized feats. Solarian isn't a bad class by any means and can dish out ridiculous damage. It's just flawed.

Hi, new to the forums and Starfinder in general.

I agree that full spellcasters feel a bit more gimped compared to previous games. But from what I've seen, they have other abilities to make up for it. A Technomancer Battlemage is a force to be reckoned with (especially considering I follow the awesome interpretation of Spellshot in my game, letting them deal weapon damage to a target as well as letting a spell go off). Boosting their weapon damage and to hit with spell slots, adding spells to grenades, and being able to deal great ST damage followed by great AoE damage makes them extremely useful. Bonus for no arcane spellcasting penalties in heavy armor, letting them take that feat and be less squishy. The permanent 24 hours spell cache effects are icing on the cake.

But I agree that it's harder to do that with mystics. Their nature as a healer and defensive class doesn't really allow a heavy offense compared to technomancers and doesn't feel like it can take advantage of heavier weapon and armor feats as well as a technomancer can. I admit, I haven't looked through their spells as much, so its possible they have more spells that can directly buff themselves and allow them to be bigger powerhouses.