Justinian9's page

I have lost thousands of twitch points (paizo power) because I have no idea when a show is going to be on the channel. That 450 points for watching streaks is big and I have been unable to get them and the points for watching the show as Paizo is unable to keep their schedule updated, For example yesterday I looked at the schedule in the afternoon and nothing was on the schedule. I look this morning and I see you had a 4 hour long show. You update the dang schedule at the same time you put the show up! I am getting a bit ticked off!!!!!

This has been an issue for sometime now and I am tired of losing points. Please keep your twitch schedule updated.

Thank you!

How are they not complete? Are you wanting Paizo to make every VTT give you a copy for free within their system for buying from Paizo or what’s going on? Paizo doesn’t own those other companies.

Okay, How many books do I need to make a Hellknight?

World Guide and Character Guide for Hellknight.

If you put something in a book make it complete

As to the other companies I am quite aware Paizo does not own them... Don't muddy the water with talk of free copies of PDFs for VTT. My complaint is having to buy 2 books to complete a build. WHICH also increases my cost with other programs. No reason for this.

I don't care what is in it just so long as it is complete data on whatever is in it. I buy the PDF and hard copies from here and I have to buy the PDF again for Hero lab.... I am learning not to make mistakes but Hero Lab keeps me right. If I get into Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds I have to buy it again! This is getting expensive.

Stop putting out products that are not complete Paizo.

Don't get me started on people copying my character.

LOL, With a name like Frizz't Do'Urden (Drizzt Do'Urden) I don't understand your problem with other copying from you?!

shroudb wrote:

For this I think the most "optimal" is monk MC with Flurry and monk weapons.

I guess that depends on how seriously you take the Diety's favored weapon thing. Does Deific Weapon require Champions to use your god's weapon? Or does it just help you make use of them if you so choose? Do the gods really expect Champions to use their favorite weapons? Or just carry it? I find the idea of most of the Gods loving particular weapons to be silly myself.

I look at it differently... The deity weapon bonuses doesn't come from the god wanting you to use the weapon. It's comes because the god loves using that weapon and the boons just comes as it pleases the god that you also love using that weapon... Just my twist on this... in my head.

HeroLab, free to make 1st level characters.

Just started it. I am enjoying it

I played my rock dwarf monk last Sunday and it was okay.... it was a pathfinder society adventure with a bunch of skill checks and that sucked as I have a 8 Cha!

The fights went well, got hit before getting into my stance but that went okay! I am going to play again this Sunday, I hope there is more combat in the next adventure as I am really not setup for role play. Lesson number 1.... be well rounded if you play PFS.

This Monk is not my Ki Monk... I will play it after I play pathfinder a bit more and learn how to use the system.

Ya, I bought it, just got the hard copy a couple days ago. Thank goodness for PDF downloads so I could read it right away. Lots of good info in it, but I really want to see how they structure the hellknight orders and what feats and boons you get.

EDIT: However, this is really off-topic and should probably be discussed in a Cult of Cinders thread.

Agree

So, Mountain Stance/Ki Monk (based on the sidebar/illustration in the Core Rulebook)...

Human (half-orc) monk (Str); 18 Str, 12 Dex*, 14 Con, 14 Wis at 1st (choose a background with a Str, Con, or Wis boost)
1st- Natural Ambition (Ki Strike), Mountain Stance
2nd- Elemental Fist, (skill feat)
3rd- Fleet, (skill increase)
4th- Wholeness of Body, (skill feat)
5th- Vigorous Vigor, (skill increase)
6th- Ki Blast, (skill feat)
7th- Incredible Initiative, (skill increase)
8th- Mountain Stronghold, (skill feat)
9th- Multitalented (Barbarian Dedication [Spirit Instinct]), (skill increase)
10th- Instinct Ability, (skill feat)
11th- (general feat), (skill increase)
12th- Meditative Focus, (skill feat)
13th- (ancestry feat), (skill increase)
14th- Mountain Quake, (skill feat)
15th- (general feat), (skill increase)
16th- Quivering Palm, (skill feat)
17th- (ancestry feat), (skill increase)
18th- Meditative Wellspring, (skill feat)
19th- (general feat), (skill increase)
20th- Diamond Fists, (skill feat)

*- AC 16, AC 19 in Mountain Stance at 1st level

Alternatively, go with Multitalented (Druid Dedication [Storm Order]) at 9th and Basic Druid Spellcasting at 10th for a more elemental-themed monk (and barkskin).

I built a monk off your post with some changes. I found a Pathfinder group here and I will play my first game on Sunday. Thanks everyone for your comments. I also have a second character ready just in case I bone up and die! LOL

How does getting two people to go on a date = we're gonna have a sex scene play out???

Edit: I actually went and read that part, it's not even that, you're just getting them to admit their fillings for each other. Where are you getting sex from?

Where am I getting sex from, they cannot directly say group sex but what is this (i removed the DC to get rid of too much info on the adventure). The first sentence is from the beginning of the para the rest is from the end of the same para ===>

PCs might attempt to seduce one of the elves to provoke the other into becoming jealous.... An especially direct PC can attempt a DC XX Diplomacy check to invite both of the elves to join the PC in a group romantic encounter...;

edited to remove more adventure info.

Justinian9 wrote:

I am currently subbed for all their 2e books and adventures.

I am already going to stop the adventures subs as cult of cinders has players actively working to get two males together for 120 XP for each player. And goes so far to have a para on if one of the players gets them into a group romantic encounter. What this is doing in an adventure that kids can play I have no idea! Last time I checked this was not PG-13.

Would you have this problem if it was a man and a woman?

Or is it just when children are exposed to those "icky gays"?

Funny how you twisted what I said. And no kids should not be exposed to gay sex nor heterosexual sex. And surely not by a game.

It is not age appropriate no matter the gender and if you do not agree so be it.

John Lynch 106 wrote:

If the archetypes all feel incomplete that’s even worse. 1 complete archetype is way better than 12 incomplete ones.

I’m quite thankful I’ve passed on this book. I’ll cannibalise what I can from the archetypes, but they sound quite skippable and I feel bad for those who like Golarion 2.0

To me the book is primarily a "here is all the ways Golarion 2.0 is different from 1.0, highlighting some regions that had not much attention previously and helping see how important they are to the overall setting.

The issue isn't that the archetypes are incomplete, so much as all of them feel like starter kits that only hint at how they will become playable once other books comes out that really surround each archetype in options related to the specific context they will be played. I don't see any 20th level character having dipped into any of these archetypes as a character defining choice, and not taken some future options that are not yet available. It feels like we are being slowly introduced to archetypes to see how they balance/unbalance the game at low levels before being thrown the full vision of them, and the capstone abilities are all still off the table. For instance, the Hellknight's only ability related to armor in the book is a speed booster in heavy armor, there is nothing that plays with increasing Heavy armor proficiency, meaning that the archetype is pretty much an awful choice for any character that doesn't naturally progress in Heavy armor proficiency on their own, all of which give martial weapon proficiency. If there is no path to higher heavy armor proficiency through Hellknight Archetypes, then I don't see it happening in any archetype. However, if that proficiency boost wouldn't happen until level 12 or later, then everything is still on track, because none of these archetypes offer any feat higher than 14th level, with most capping out in the 8 to 10th level range.

Well! The only reason I got the Pathfinder 2e books was because they were starting all over. If I have to buy a bunch of PF1e books then Paizo can kiss my money good bye!!!!!!!!

Justinian9 wrote:

Seisho wrote:

Dragon Styles Dragon Tail attack is also compatible with a Barbarians fury which (damage) benefit is halfved for agile weapons - and backswing is the next best thing

How do you justify (in your mind... not to me) the mix of the barbarian losing control (rage) and the disciplined nature of a monk? A weakness/ mental issue? Which one would be the archetype?

I thought about mixing these 2 classes but I cannot get past that mix in the nature of the class. The only way I would do it would be if I had the Moment of Clarity barbarian feat. This is also my issue with a monk using a tower shield, I think I could see a buckler shield but not a tower. I might try the tower shield to see if I can enjoy this style.

There's nothing saying a Monk has to be a disciplined lawful character. Maybe they're a well trained boxer or wrestler. Could be somebody like Braum from League of Legends.

Monk's were always Lawful! I just assumed, I never looked for an alignment requirement, it has always been! Another blow to my idea's of what is!! Dang! How much of what I think I know of Pathfinder have I assumed... I have no idea! LOL

Justinian9 wrote:

Seisho wrote:

Dragon Styles Dragon Tail attack is also compatible with a Barbarians fury which (damage) benefit is halfved for agile weapons - and backswing is the next best thing

How do you justify (in your mind... not to me) the mix of the barbarian losing control (rage) and the disciplined nature of a monk? A weakness/ mental issue? Which one would be the archetype?

So way back in PF 1e, there was this monk archetype called the Scaled Fist that was the absolute antithesis of the wise, disciplined, contemplative monk. These guys were based off of Charisma and were total self-aggrandizing show-offs, cowing others with their intimidation and infinite self confidence. That's what Dragon Monk in part draws it's inspiration from, and I could definitely see these guys drawing out the dragon's fury and raging.

There was also the monk martial artist who eschewed the philosophical trappings of all these martial arts and who concentrated solely on beating people's skulls in.

Martial arts is not all Kwai Chang Kaine self knowledge and wisdom. Pathfinder has always had all sorts of ways to beat face with fist and some of them interfaced very well with Barbarian (I recall Martial Artist/Barbarian was considered to be a very potent combo).

Quote:

I thought about mixing these 2 classes but I cannot get past that mix in the nature of the class. The only way I would do it would be if I had the Moment of Clarity barbarian feat. This is also my issue with a monk using a tower shield, I think I could see a buckler shield but not a tower. I might try the tower shield to see if I can enjoy this style.

More than likely, the first Mountain Stylist was a half-naked Dwarf heaving with rock like muscle and sheer stubbornness. Why wouldn't they also wield a giant slab of metal the size of a barn door?

Quote:

Most of the 1st level stances do not allow use of any other attacks except the one allowed by the stance, so in most cases weapons are out.

...

wow, you know what you just told me? All (or most) of my issues are from my own (D&D) preconceived view of what a class is and what it is not. And I think you are right!!

I keep reading Pathfinder info and trying to understand it from a pre-AD&D, AD&D and 5e D&D lens. I am not sure I can overcome that for awhile. As I think about it, almost everything I question is because it does not match/conform to D&D.

I think you guys are going to keep getting this kind of questions/opinions from me until I can open my mind to a new world of options in the Pathfinder system. I did not think this was going to be so hard, but it is... I have got to find some PF2e players here and start playing and not just reading...that will help.

Justinian9 wrote:

I find your demand ridicules.

What a great name for a greek-inspired hero. I am Ridicules, son of King Typho and heir to the Throne of Diditwrong.

:-)

Justinian9 wrote:

. Admitting his error to the online lynch mob is enough.

???

Hello John Lynch... I was not referring to you! LMAO. Just referring to how you can be attacked in forums.

Uh, having a typo in a book is a bit different than claiming false advertising when you didn’t read the product before purchasing it.

No they are not the same! He came on here and admitted his error. He did not have to do that. Admitting his error to the online lynch mob is enough.

One thing about this Title of this thread you can bet someone at Paizo is going to read it. LOL

I would say you owe Paizo an apology, both for the unnecessarily rude and hostile tone of your post, but also because you are completely wrong.

Really! Did Paizo apology for errors in their products? I find your demand ridicules.

Everyone makes mistakes/errors and sometimes our tempers get the better of us.

No apology is required of anyone, not Paizo for their errors, not you for demanding an apology, not me for writing this totally unnecessary post and not him for his error.

Dragon Styles Dragon Tail attack is also compatible with a Barbarians fury which (damage) benefit is halfved for agile weapons - and backswing is the next best thing

How do you justify (in your mind... not to me) the mix of the barbarian losing control (rage) and the disciplined nature of a monk? A weakness/ mental issue? Which one would be the archetype?

I thought about mixing these 2 classes but I cannot get past that mix in the nature of the class. The only way I would do it would be if I had the Moment of Clarity barbarian feat. This is also my issue with a monk using a tower shield, I think I could see a buckler shield but not a tower. I might try the tower shield to see if I can enjoy this style.

Most of the 1st level stances do not allow use of any other attacks except the one allowed by the stance, so in most cases weapons are out. Unless I misunderstand the stances/ rules.

Justinian9 wrote:

10th level monk with 20 str unarmed strike 1d6 +5 twice so 2d6+10 if you hit both times as you do have the multi-attack penalty on the second attack

Most of the time, you will be using a stance that increases your damage to 1d8 or possibly more. In addition, by 10th level you probably have +1 or +2 striking handwraps of mighty blows giving you one more die of damage, so with one action the monk makes two attacks for 2d8+5 (with the second either being -5 to hit and +2 damage, or -4 to hit). You could be making more attacks, but you'd be eating a double multiple attack penalty which would pretty much remove your chance of actually hitting. So that leaves two actions open for movement, letting you dash both in and out of combat.

Quote:

10th level MU, 20 in key spell ability, the first cantrip in the book is acid Splash so let see what that does... (I don't normally play Magic Users so I may not have the dam correct).

2d6 +5, if crit + 3 points persistent dam, + 2 splash damage to everyone in 5 ft of target.

With the handwraps included, the monk is pretty far ahead on damage. But then again, the monk doesn't have the nova capacity of a caster.

That is true! And I should have had the damage die 1d10 as Mtn strikes (i can't remember there name) are d10

Justinian9 wrote:

lordcirth wrote:

Mountain Stance does slow you a little, but you're a monk. Moving is cheap when you have Flurry of Blows, and at level 3 it will barely matter anymore. Also, dwarves with Unburdened Iron won't care.

I did not think about that, good call.

I will tell you why I did not go with Dwarf... If you require Ki Strike and Mtn Stance they are both 1st level class feats. So as a dwarf I would have to pick my seconf 1st level feat at 2 level and I would always be 2 level behind on class feats. As a Human I can get 2 1st level class feats at 1st level. That is the only reason I built a Ki Monk as a human. I am going to have to think about this some more.

If you have access to the Lost Omens World Guide you could join a House of Perfection. Get Ki Strike at lvl 2 with the Student of Perfection dedication which then gives you access to Perfect Strike (Reaction to reroll a missed attack) and 4 other Ki Spells (based on school)

OH Dang, I have been spending so much time trying to figure out the hellknight I did not think to look in it for Monk stuff.. Great info, Thanks!

Mountain Stance does slow you a little, but you're a monk. Moving is cheap when you have Flurry of Blows, and at level 3 it will barely matter anymore. Also, dwarves with Unburdened Iron won't care.

I did not think about that, good call.

I will tell you why I did not go with Dwarf... If you require Ki Strike and Mtn Stance they are both 1st level class feats. So as a dwarf I would have to pick my seconf 1st level feat at 2 level and I would always be 2 level behind on class feats. As a Human I can get 2 1st level class feats at 1st level. That is the only reason I built a Ki Monk as a human. I am going to have to think about this some more.

To the OP, others have addressed the points as well as I could or better, but one thing I don't get is the comment about Mountain Stance monks needing to "stand there and take it". Mountain Stance doesn't impose any movement penalties or anything.

Also I think either unarmed strikes or Cantrips are being notably underestimated. Cantrips do nice damage but cost two actions, which is a big deal. Especially for casters whose main thing is spells and most Spells also take two actions. Strikes may do a little less damage per hit but you're gonna be landing more hits. Especially monks, who can get two attacks for one action once per turn with Flurry. So even when they aren't using ki, a ki-focused Monk is going to be a great fighter, better than Cantrip attacks.

I also don't get the comment about having to retrain abilities constantly to keep them effective, I can't think of any Monk abilities offhand that really get worse at higher levels.

10th level monk with 20 str unarmed strike 1d6 +5 twice so 2d6+10 if you hit both times as you do have the multi-attack penalty on the second attack

10th level MU, 20 in key spell ability, the first cantrip in the book is acid Splash so let see what that does... (I don't normally play Magic Users so I may not have the dam correct).

2d6 +5, if crit + 3 points persistent dam, + 2 splash damage to everyone in 5 ft of target.

Pretty close on damage, I agreeI think I will have to play a monk to see how it works out on the grid.

As to retraining as you level you are picking Ki feats as you go.... if you can only use 3 focus points a day (plus 1 after every fight if you used a focus point), why do you want to keep the lower level ki feats if your main attacks are unarmed strikes? So you pick new Ki feats as you go and retrain the lower level ones you no longer want. this way you can pick feats that increase your main force... unarmed strikes. That is my thought process, don't know if it is correct, but it make sense to me. Am I wrong?

Justinian9 wrote:

HammerJack wrote:

Do note that occult and divine aren't only knowledge skills, but may also be active skills for protecting against certain hazards, like haunts.

True, but if you take Stace Savant than you don't have Meditative Focus to regain 2 focus points after a battle.great!. and there is always Disrupt Ki at that level that is just plain.

Please explain this active skills for protecting against certain hazards or where do I read on this ability... I have missed this!

The section on hazards starts on page 520. Most of the example hazards are more "classic" style traps, and use thievery as the skill needed to disable them, or the option of attempting to use Dispel Magic, for magical traps. There's only one example of a haunt type trap in the CRB, where religion or diplomacy can be used to attempt to calm the spirits, and disable that hazard. However, depending on the nature of a hazard, a lot of skills can be relevant as a way to disable them. The few adventures published by Paizo so far do include hazards where other skills, like religion and occultism, are relevant.

Interesting! Thank you, I will read this. I have not read this part as I did not think any of my characters would be involved in traps. Thanks again

Just to make sure everyone understands me. I think Monks are great, I am focusing on the negative to help me mitigate the effects and build a good character.

I have to go for a bit, I will be back later. Thanks in advance for assisting me in my understanding of this system.

Also remember that unless that fighter was using a specific exploration tactic, or took Reactive Shield as their 1st level feat, they don't have that shield bonus before they act, anymore than the monk is in stance before acting.

Thanks, I forgot about that... so a 10% higher AC not 20. and a monk with a shield would also not get that bonus to AC prior to his turn.

Thanks for the reminder

Do note that occult and divine aren't only knowledge skills, but may also be active skills for protecting against certain hazards, like haunts.

True, but if you take Stace Savant than you don't have Meditative Focus to regain 2 focus points after a battle.great!. and there is always Disrupt Ki at that level that is just plain.

Please explain this active skills for protecting against certain hazards or where do I read on this ability... I have missed this!

I think at level 1 most classes will start round 1 with low AC if they don’t have a shield raised . I believe medium armour would be 15 as well

Occult as a skill is just as useful as Divine but for different things - identifying different types of spells and monsters

Let use Fighter as an example as they are also a melee class.

4 AC higher than a Monk with a str build.... unless the monk also uses a shield (which I did not consider in this post). A 20% higher chance of a crit and a hit on a monk than a fighter.

Focus powers (all of them, not just monk) are set up mechanically to be something usefull that you can use repeatedly throughout the day, but never something you can use exclusively. I think "ki monk" is a much less accurate description in this edition than "monk with ki." I do think they should have found a better name for their example, because of that.

The occult over divine choice can be aseen much for the flavor you want as anything else, and they had to pick one for their example. There is no reason you'd need to pick occult. Both skills can be useful for their own sake.

They probably chose mountain stance, because a mountain stance monk can afford to have low DEX, to free up points for WIS. You can only make one type of Strike, in the stance. You can still use Attacks that include Strikes, like Flurry of Blows, as long as the included Strikes are the ones used by mountain stance. You can also still use actions that are Attacks but are not Strikes at all, like Ki Blast, or combat maneuvers.

You can use both a shield and bracers and still not be wearing armor.

All classes have been built to be very modular, so that future additions will expand their breadth of options, instead of building power on top. The monk has had a lot of core abilities in the past. In this format, they are things that you can select as abilities that you gain, taking a multiclass archetype into monk, or abilities that you lose, archetyping away from monk.

Regarding the fighter getting a higher unarmed attack proficiency, remember, absolutely no class reaches Legendary with both weapon and armor. Not all of the martial classes reach Legendary with even one of the 2.

I think you are right it is a monk with Ki not a Ki Monk! Yet the abilities are strong.... you would have to retrain all the time to keep your other Monk abilities strong enough to be a a viable build.

I watched a PF1 show on you tube I think it was Markofthedragon and there was a Monk in it that was just plain awesome. I think back to the Monk in the old days of D&D and they were also awesome, I think this Monk can also be awesome but requires a very good understanding of synergy of core, feats, and archetypes abilities to accomplish. I don't have that skill right now... I have to read and understand more.

Justinian9 wrote:

1. I can't understand why a Monk focus point pool is limited to 3. To be a Ki Monk (Unlike the other classes) a Monk has to pick heavy Ki feats. You can have a pool of 3 as early as 2nd level, however I think level 4 would be the norm. You can't regain 2 focus points until you pick Meditative Focus at level 12. So saying for most combat you will only have 1 focus point to use while Ki is your main weapon in combat. It is almost like they don't want you to be a Ki Monk, just a Monk that can once or twice a fight use Ki. But use a bunch of feats to have options.

I do not understand this restriction, seems very limiting, can some one please explain?

Errrm, every class is limited to max ever a pool of 3 focus points, it says so on pg 300. Sorcerors only have 3, wizards only have 3, so in a way, Monks have the most Focus points of any class...? (3)

Quote:

2. The example of a Ki Monk on page 162 in the core book says you should pick occult for your spell like abilities (I say this as occult is one of the skills picked on the build). I do not understand this... is it because occult skill is used versatile in day to day play? Occult is an Int based skill while Divine is Wis based. Seems to me you need the higher stat to be wis for the saves, Ki saves, and perception. Why pick occult over divine?

Thats kind of a flavour thing, mysterious user of Ki = Occult. Its a trained skill, you don't have to take it if you don't want to.

Quote:

3. I see no value in Mtn Stance as with the spread of your points across so many ability scores you will not stand and fight toe-to-toe... move, hit, move! It also limits you to one form of attack. Am I missing something?

Mountain Stance allows you to focus your ability points in Str, and ignore Dex so I'm not sure why you would be very spread out. Mountain Monks can start with one of the highest starting ACs in the game (23 with a tower shield) so heck, you can just stand there and take it. Let all the enemies...

I am new to Pathfinder, just trying to get this system in my head. So I ask questions and read the thoughts of people like you who know and understand the system better than I d

How do you ignore dex? How do you live through the first round if you have not had time to get into Mtn Stance to get your +4 to AC. A 15 AC for a round would suck, bad! I also was not thinking a Monk could use a shield so that helps. A shield would use one action to keep raised, might be worth it. I will have to think about that.

Yes, Sorcerers, Wizards, and Monks have a pool of 3 focus points. I see this differently, I see focus points enhancing the Sorcerers and Wizards spell abilities however, it just limits a Ki Monk... if a Sorcerer or Wizard had to use a focus point to cast a spell and could only regain 1 focus point (one spell use) after a battle than could only use cantrips the comparison would be the same. A Ki Monk is limited to 3 uses of spell like ability (his main damage attacks) and after that has to use other weapons which are comparable to cantrip damage.

Thanks for the info on Occult as I could not see the point... flavor I understand! I would have understood that it was a better skill in game play also.

I am not arguing a point on any of this... just trying to understand.

1. I can't understand why a Monk focus point pool is limited to 3. To be a Ki Monk (Unlike the other classes) a Monk has to pick heavy Ki feats. You can have a pool of 3 as early as 2nd level, however I think level 4 would be the norm. You can't regain 2 focus points until you pick Meditative Focus at level 12. So saying for most combat you will only have 1 focus point to use while Ki is your main weapon in combat. It is almost like they don't want you to be a Ki Monk, just a Monk that can once or twice a fight use Ki. But use a bunch of feats to have options.

I do not understand this restriction, seems very limiting, can some one please explain?

2. The example of a Ki Monk on page 162 in the core book says you should pick occult for your spell like abilities (I say this as occult is one of the skills picked on the build). I do not understand this... is it because occult skill is used versatile in day to day play? Occult is an Int based skill while Divine is Wis based. Seems to me you need the higher stat to be wis for the saves, Ki saves, and perception. Why pick occult over divine?

3. I see no value in Mtn Stance as with the spread of your points across so many ability scores you will not stand and fight toe-to-toe... move, hit, move! It also limits you to one form of attack. Am I missing something?

4. Is a shield and/or Bracers considered Armor. I think a shield is but bracers of def would be okay to use as a monk. Am I correct?

5. General thoughts:
I am an old D&D player from back in the 70's... it seems to me that Stunning Fist, Water Step, Wall Run and (maybe) Deflect Arrow should have been core with feats to enhance them.

I do not understand how the fighter can have a better unarmed strike than a Monk.

I also do not understand the slow progression of monks unarmored defense. 12 levels at your starting proficiency seems very slow for a very core ability.

Thanks in advance for responses.

The most well-known one, the Order of the Rack, is very much a Thrune loyalist. There are probably quite a few other loyalists scattered among the other orders, given most of them are centered in Cheliax.

I did not mean to imply there were no loyalists in the Hellknight ranks, only that if you wanted a good Hellknight background to use it forced you to be a loyalist.

Maybe it sticks out to me as I do not have that thought in my head for a Hellknight build... I would love to have a LG Champion/Hellknight, Order of the Scourge as I love the Terrible Justice and Reason to Fear Boons in the Path of the Hellfighter book. A Champion focused on the Good and a Hellknight on the Law is a great character (to me) The Order of the Scourge favored weapon is a heavy mace (2 handed I assume) in PF1 but no heavy mace in PF2.

I would gladly give up access to many of the Champion feats to soak up good Hellknight feats!

I am also looking at a cleric/hellknight for the same reason.

It also seems like all the LG Gods have favored weapons I do not want to use (I want a 2 handed weapon) and I would like the gods favored weapon to match the hellknight favored weapon... that can work if I play a LE character and that is not what I want to do.

But that is enough of me blithering on about what I want!

I just created a functional Hellknight Armiger.

I guess functional is the key word. I am going to wait for the book that adds all the info required. I have enjoyed reading the (PF1) Path of the Hellknight but they are much more powerful than I think Paizo wants them to be in PF2. I build a character from an idea in my head and than pick something close to that thought. Without knowing what abilities each order will be given I see no clear path ahead for me. If the Orders have no core abilities and feats I think Hellknights are subpar. You give 4 feats min if you want move up in Hellknight ranks, that is a lot of class feats to give up unless there is a strong motivation to do so.

The only pro Hellknight background makes you loyal to House Thrune (THRUNE LOYALIST) not just to the order of law. According to what I read hellknight fear that House Thrune will turn on them so why would your only pro hellknight make you a Thrune loyalist?

The archetype feats... seem limited use to my way of thinking. I could be wrong as I am new to this game and there may be synergy I do not see.

Just my thoughts.

Sorry folks, I don't know why my posts (2 each above) are dropping the close quote, I will try and watch for that in the future. I don't post online much.

Thanks for all the comments, I have learned a bunch even from people that think my issue is BS.

Thanks again everyone!

Path of the Hellknight (Blue means it's a link)

Order of the Torrent and Order of the Pike are both good for more Good aligned Hellknight orders :3

Thanks, I just ordered it.

This will give me a better understanding of them.... I have read everything I found in wiki a few months ago. However, I have been looking at them as a lawful paladins (kinda). No one has noted that Cha would be a required stat. I don't think I have a grasp of what a Hellknight truly is. I think I need to read more data and understand them much better than I do.

Can someone please post the full name of the PF1 book that covered Hellknights. I will see if I can find it, it sounds like it will have a lot of information that I don't know.
I have read the wiki posts on hellknights so I have a general idea of what they are, I don't know the abbreviations being used. If it has already been posted, I missed it, sorry. Someone posted above that they don't have all the info on lessor orders and I was thinking of order of the pike which has very little info in wiki. But I want to read more info and get an order that fits with what I have in mind for my character or at least as close as I can. I resently found an order that does not attract evil members.... and I don't plain on being evil.... in fact I am thinking LG or LN at worst.

PF1 CRB was published in Aug 2009. ISWG was published in Mar 2011. For almost two years, PF1 players were using the information from the Pathfinder Chronicles: Campaign Setting published in Aug 2008 for the 3.5 edition. That was also before the free online resources such as AON and PFWiki became widespread and chock-full of content.

Now, the LOWG is published a few weeks after the edition change and heaps of setting info are available online, and yet still people complain that the same info hasn't been reprinted with the PF2 tag on it, despite it not being related to the system mechanics at all... *eyeroll*

As a new Pathfinder players I must say I am a bit disappointed that when I reach out to the Pathfinder community I get a comment like this. Pathfinder system is completely different than the D&D I played in my youth and 5ed.
I wanted to start looking at how to build a Hellknight, you know required stats, and all that other stuff, but nothing.... no stat requirement but I would think cha would be required... Does not even state you have to be lawful. So I can not look at a build, I must wait for more info to be published as I get a feeling the orders will have the requirements not the general Armiger

Thanks all. I was hoping that I missed some info in the book as this feat system of Pathfinder throws me for a loop at times.
Thanks again for all the responses

Presumably the "lawful alignment" part is encoded in "member of a Hellknight order".

Presumably the weapons favored by each order have not changed, since the lore hasn't really changed. There are after all PF2 stats for the Flail (Chain), Dagger (Gate), Morningstar (Godclaw), Halberd (Nail), Glaive (Pyre), Longsword (Rack), Whip (Scourge), Greataxe (Coil), Battleaxe (Glyph), Longspear (Pike), and Rapier (Scar). So I'd just go with that if these associations aren't in the book. Presumably they'll be in another book.

You might be right on lawful being part of being a member of one of the orders, but they do not have any of this info. I check in the backgrounds for the area and none of them make you a member of an order.

It seems silly to rush to the forums when most of us can't actually read the book yet and you said yourself you didn't really read it.

For PFS, it's likely there will be some kind of access boon for things like "member of a Hellknight order"

For a home game, talk to your GM? It's kind of unrealistic for everything to be 100% spelled out in the new edition all at once. Draw on 1E for a little bit.

I have searched the PDF for "Hellknight", "order of the" only 3 orders are discussed and only very short bits, no meat.

I am new to Pathfinder and have no knowledge of PF1 to draw from. Nor do I know anyone that plays Pathfinder

Please note below, you have to be a member of a hellknight order, trained in heavy armor and the orders fav weapon, and reads like you had to go through the reckoning.... and if it is the same as I understand from wiki (PF1) the reckonings are different per order.
This is the entire dedication:

HELLKNIGHT ARMIGER DEDICATION FEAT 2
UNCOMMON
ARCHETYPE
DEDICATION
Prerequisites member of a Hellknight order, trained in heavy armor as well as your order’s favored weapon; Access You are from Old Cheliax.
Your Hellknight training teaches you to terrorize others into compliance, but you also study the structure and hierarchy of Hell. You must survive painful tests of your body and mind called reckonings, which steady your mind against all sorts of trauma. You gain resistance to mental damage equal to 1 + your number of class feats from the Hellknight Armiger archetype and other Hellknight archetypes. You become trained in Intimidation and Hell Lore; if you were already trained, you become an expert instead.
Special You can’t select another dedication feat except dedication feats for higher positions within the Hellknights until you have gained two other feats from the Hellknight armiger archetype.

Okay, I was told we would have a Hellknight archetype in this book but from what I see it is not playable with the given information.

The following is from the dedication:

"HELLKNIGHT ARMIGER DEDICATION FEAT 2
UNCOMMON
ARCHETYPE
DEDICATION
Prerequisites member of a Hellknight order, trained in heavy armor as well as your order’s favored weapon; Access You are from Old Cheliax."

So, how do you become a Hellknight when you have no information on the hellknight orders nor do you have any info on the orders favored weapon. Yes, I know I can find this info online but that is for 1st ed not 2nd.

Note, no requirement on Lawful alignment?

Maybe I am missing something... seems pretty weak and.... rushed!

I only have the PDF and I much prefer paper manuals, so maybe I am missing some info.

Your thoughts?

Paizo.com shows this book as in stock, however I have no notification of a pending shipment nor have I received a copy. Please check on the status of my subscription.

Hope you guys enjoy!

I bought 2 packs of the characters sheets, however I thought they would be setup by class and not general sheets. They are nice sheets, but I must say I am disappointed they are only general character sheets and not class designed.