Justinian9's page

I played my rock dwarf monk last Sunday and it was okay.... it was a pathfinder society adventure with a bunch of skill checks and that sucked as I have a 8 Cha!

The fights went well, got hit before getting into my stance but that went okay! I am going to play again this Sunday, I hope there is more combat in the next adventure as I am really not setup for role play. Lesson number 1.... be well rounded if you play PFS.

This Monk is not my Ki Monk... I will play it after I play pathfinder a bit more and learn how to use the system.

So, Mountain Stance/Ki Monk (based on the sidebar/illustration in the Core Rulebook)...

Human (half-orc) monk (Str); 18 Str, 12 Dex*, 14 Con, 14 Wis at 1st (choose a background with a Str, Con, or Wis boost)
1st- Natural Ambition (Ki Strike), Mountain Stance
2nd- Elemental Fist, (skill feat)
3rd- Fleet, (skill increase)
4th- Wholeness of Body, (skill feat)
5th- Vigorous Vigor, (skill increase)
6th- Ki Blast, (skill feat)
7th- Incredible Initiative, (skill increase)
8th- Mountain Stronghold, (skill feat)
9th- Multitalented (Barbarian Dedication [Spirit Instinct]), (skill increase)
10th- Instinct Ability, (skill feat)
11th- (general feat), (skill increase)
12th- Meditative Focus, (skill feat)
13th- (ancestry feat), (skill increase)
14th- Mountain Quake, (skill feat)
15th- (general feat), (skill increase)
16th- Quivering Palm, (skill feat)
17th- (ancestry feat), (skill increase)
18th- Meditative Wellspring, (skill feat)
19th- (general feat), (skill increase)
20th- Diamond Fists, (skill feat)

*- AC 16, AC 19 in Mountain Stance at 1st level

Alternatively, go with Multitalented (Druid Dedication [Storm Order]) at 9th and Basic Druid Spellcasting at 10th for a more elemental-themed monk (and barkskin).

I built a monk off your post with some changes. I found a Pathfinder group here and I will play my first game on Sunday. Thanks everyone for your comments. I also have a second character ready just in case I bone up and die! LOL

Justinian9 wrote:

Seisho wrote:

Dragon Styles Dragon Tail attack is also compatible with a Barbarians fury which (damage) benefit is halfved for agile weapons - and backswing is the next best thing

How do you justify (in your mind... not to me) the mix of the barbarian losing control (rage) and the disciplined nature of a monk? A weakness/ mental issue? Which one would be the archetype?

I thought about mixing these 2 classes but I cannot get past that mix in the nature of the class. The only way I would do it would be if I had the Moment of Clarity barbarian feat. This is also my issue with a monk using a tower shield, I think I could see a buckler shield but not a tower. I might try the tower shield to see if I can enjoy this style.

There's nothing saying a Monk has to be a disciplined lawful character. Maybe they're a well trained boxer or wrestler. Could be somebody like Braum from League of Legends.

Monk's were always Lawful! I just assumed, I never looked for an alignment requirement, it has always been! Another blow to my idea's of what is!! Dang! How much of what I think I know of Pathfinder have I assumed... I have no idea! LOL

Justinian9 wrote:

Seisho wrote:

Dragon Styles Dragon Tail attack is also compatible with a Barbarians fury which (damage) benefit is halfved for agile weapons - and backswing is the next best thing

How do you justify (in your mind... not to me) the mix of the barbarian losing control (rage) and the disciplined nature of a monk? A weakness/ mental issue? Which one would be the archetype?

So way back in PF 1e, there was this monk archetype called the Scaled Fist that was the absolute antithesis of the wise, disciplined, contemplative monk. These guys were based off of Charisma and were total self-aggrandizing show-offs, cowing others with their intimidation and infinite self confidence. That's what Dragon Monk in part draws it's inspiration from, and I could definitely see these guys drawing out the dragon's fury and raging.

There was also the monk martial artist who eschewed the philosophical trappings of all these martial arts and who concentrated solely on beating people's skulls in.

Martial arts is not all Kwai Chang Kaine self knowledge and wisdom. Pathfinder has always had all sorts of ways to beat face with fist and some of them interfaced very well with Barbarian (I recall Martial Artist/Barbarian was considered to be a very potent combo).

Quote:

I thought about mixing these 2 classes but I cannot get past that mix in the nature of the class. The only way I would do it would be if I had the Moment of Clarity barbarian feat. This is also my issue with a monk using a tower shield, I think I could see a buckler shield but not a tower. I might try the tower shield to see if I can enjoy this style.

More than likely, the first Mountain Stylist was a half-naked Dwarf heaving with rock like muscle and sheer stubbornness. Why wouldn't they also wield a giant slab of metal the size of a barn door?

Quote:

Most of the 1st level stances do not allow use of any other attacks except the one allowed by the stance, so in most cases weapons are out.

...

wow, you know what you just told me? All (or most) of my issues are from my own (D&D) preconceived view of what a class is and what it is not. And I think you are right!!

I keep reading Pathfinder info and trying to understand it from a pre-AD&D, AD&D and 5e D&D lens. I am not sure I can overcome that for awhile. As I think about it, almost everything I question is because it does not match/conform to D&D.

I think you guys are going to keep getting this kind of questions/opinions from me until I can open my mind to a new world of options in the Pathfinder system. I did not think this was going to be so hard, but it is... I have got to find some PF2e players here and start playing and not just reading...that will help.

Dragon Styles Dragon Tail attack is also compatible with a Barbarians fury which (damage) benefit is halfved for agile weapons - and backswing is the next best thing

How do you justify (in your mind... not to me) the mix of the barbarian losing control (rage) and the disciplined nature of a monk? A weakness/ mental issue? Which one would be the archetype?

I thought about mixing these 2 classes but I cannot get past that mix in the nature of the class. The only way I would do it would be if I had the Moment of Clarity barbarian feat. This is also my issue with a monk using a tower shield, I think I could see a buckler shield but not a tower. I might try the tower shield to see if I can enjoy this style.

Most of the 1st level stances do not allow use of any other attacks except the one allowed by the stance, so in most cases weapons are out. Unless I misunderstand the stances/ rules.

Justinian9 wrote:

lordcirth wrote:

Mountain Stance does slow you a little, but you're a monk. Moving is cheap when you have Flurry of Blows, and at level 3 it will barely matter anymore. Also, dwarves with Unburdened Iron won't care.

I did not think about that, good call.

I will tell you why I did not go with Dwarf... If you require Ki Strike and Mtn Stance they are both 1st level class feats. So as a dwarf I would have to pick my seconf 1st level feat at 2 level and I would always be 2 level behind on class feats. As a Human I can get 2 1st level class feats at 1st level. That is the only reason I built a Ki Monk as a human. I am going to have to think about this some more.

If you have access to the Lost Omens World Guide you could join a House of Perfection. Get Ki Strike at lvl 2 with the Student of Perfection dedication which then gives you access to Perfect Strike (Reaction to reroll a missed attack) and 4 other Ki Spells (based on school)

OH Dang, I have been spending so much time trying to figure out the hellknight I did not think to look in it for Monk stuff.. Great info, Thanks!

1. I can't understand why a Monk focus point pool is limited to 3. To be a Ki Monk (Unlike the other classes) a Monk has to pick heavy Ki feats. You can have a pool of 3 as early as 2nd level, however I think level 4 would be the norm. You can't regain 2 focus points until you pick Meditative Focus at level 12. So saying for most combat you will only have 1 focus point to use while Ki is your main weapon in combat. It is almost like they don't want you to be a Ki Monk, just a Monk that can once or twice a fight use Ki. But use a bunch of feats to have options.

I do not understand this restriction, seems very limiting, can some one please explain?

2. The example of a Ki Monk on page 162 in the core book says you should pick occult for your spell like abilities (I say this as occult is one of the skills picked on the build). I do not understand this... is it because occult skill is used versatile in day to day play? Occult is an Int based skill while Divine is Wis based. Seems to me you need the higher stat to be wis for the saves, Ki saves, and perception. Why pick occult over divine?

3. I see no value in Mtn Stance as with the spread of your points across so many ability scores you will not stand and fight toe-to-toe... move, hit, move! It also limits you to one form of attack. Am I missing something?

4. Is a shield and/or Bracers considered Armor. I think a shield is but bracers of def would be okay to use as a monk. Am I correct?

5. General thoughts:
I am an old D&D player from back in the 70's... it seems to me that Stunning Fist, Water Step, Wall Run and (maybe) Deflect Arrow should have been core with feats to enhance them.

I do not understand how the fighter can have a better unarmed strike than a Monk.

I also do not understand the slow progression of monks unarmored defense. 12 levels at your starting proficiency seems very slow for a very core ability.

Thanks in advance for responses.