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I created a online conversion tool to convert from 3.5/pathfinder to D&D 5 monster stats. Hope it helps:
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Its not slightly lower. First off in My view the default assumed AC for a 1st level melee character is 18. Your 14 dex fighter will get breast plate as soon as he can which is fairly early if you go wealth by level (with traits it can even be had by character creation). By second or 3rd level, the fighter has fullplate, with an AC around 20-22. The synthesist still has a 15. I was providing a 1st level comparison.. the higher level ones below had the higher level comparisons. The fighter did indeed have 20, and the synthesists had 15, true, by 2nd level. On the other hand, the synthesist has more attacks (thus more damage potential), didn't have to spend gold on full-plate, and has summon monster spells, as well as standard spells.
The synthesist in this example also has DR, Note that I consider the stacking of armor and natural armor broken when it comes to creatures as well. The high natural armor was really meant to replace armor for this creatures. Thus, I don't allow barding and natural armor to stack either (avoiding the horrible TPK provided by the dragon with barding). Without getting too side tracked, I'm interested in feedback that assumes that this level of nerfing is desirable. More the question is how to best nerf it to this level, if nerfing to this extent is needed. I know that with the nerfing so far, I would happily play a synthesist myself. It would be a toss up, between this synthesist and another class.. with perhaps even now a slight leaning towards the synthesist. To be able to stick it out in melee, and yet still have the option to cast spells and summon critters.. booyah.
Regardless of what they end up with, you are talking about starting (at level 1) with like an AC of 14 (assuming a 15 point buy and with your ability restrictions). That is really low for a front line character. It might even out at higher levels because of the scaling Nat Armor bonuses, but it seems problematic at low levels, at which point you dont have any of the spells you mentioned. With mage armor going you could expect something similar to:
This is compared to
The Synthesist at 1st level has a slightely lower AC, better hit/dmg ability, and average hit points for the melee types. Dont have acccess to the link you posted for your calculations, what level is that? Why compare against a barbarian (who's primary defense is not AC)? Here is the full breakdown with the calculations. I compared to a Barbarian (as well as a fighter and a oracle) since he is a front-line fighter. Since the Synthesist is often going to be in the front-lines as well, it seems appropriate. Example: Leonal Agathion (weapon use allowed): bipedal (includes limbs (arms), limbs (legs), claws, darkvision, natural armor+2)
--------------------- No improved natural armor evolutions + Max armor/natural armor +10 + 1/2 bonus hp Lvl 1: AC 13 (12 dex, +2 natural armor), +4/+4/+4 bite/2claws [1d8+3, 2x1d4+3] (Str 16, BAB+1), Hp 8=5+3 (HD 1d8+1/2[1d10+1]), Evolution pool 3 (bite, pounce, imp dmg [bite]), darkvision, Spells 1st
Lvl 2: AC 15 (13 dex, +4 natural armor), +5/+5/+5 (Str 17, BAB+2), Hp 16=10+6 (HD 2d8+1/2[2d10+2]), Evolution pool 4 (skilled [stealth]), evasion, Spells 1st
Lvl 3: AC 15 (13 dex, +4 natural armor), +6/+6/+6 (Str 17, BAB+3), Hp 25=15+10 (HD 3d8+1/2[3d10+3]), Evolution pool 5 (scent), Spells 1st
Lvl 4: AC 17 (13 dex, +4 natural armor, +2 shielded meld), +6/+6/+6 [1d8+3, 1d4+3, 1d6+3] (Str 17, BAB+3), Hp 30=20+10 (HD 4d8+1/2[3d10+3]), Evolution pool 7+1 (rake, imp dmg [claw]), Spells 1st-2nd
Lvl 5: AC 20 (14 dex, +6 natural armor, +2 shielded meld), +8/+8/+8 [1d8+4, 1d4+4, 1d6+4] (Str 18+1, BAB+4), Hp 37=25+12 (HD 5d8+1/2[4d10+4]), Evolution pool 8+1 (low-light vision), ability increase (+1 str), Spells 1st-2nd
Lvl 6: AC 20 (14 dex, +6 natural armor, +2 shielded meld), +9/+9/+9 [1d8+4, 2x1d6+4] (Str 18+1, BAB+5), Hp 45=30+15 (HD 6d8+1/2[5d10+5]), Evolution pool 9+1 (imp dmg [claw]), Spells 1st-2nd
Lvl 7: AC 22 (15 dex, +8 natural armor, +2 shielded meld), +11/+11/+11 [1d8+5, 2x1d6+5] (Str 19+1, BAB+6), Hp 54=35+19 (HD 7d8+1/2[6d10+6]), Evolution pool 10+1 (imp dmg [rake]), Spells 1st-3rd
Lvl 10: AC 25 (16 dex, +10 natural armor, +2 shielded meld), +14/+14/+14 [1d8+6, 2x1d6+6] (Str 20+2, BAB+8), Hp 74=50+24 (HD 10d8+1/2[8d10+8]), Evolution pool 14+2 (?, damage reduction [3 pts], scent), multiattack, ability increase (+1 str), Spells 1st-4th
Lvl 15: AC 28 (18 dex, +10 natural armor, +4 greater shielded meld), +19/+19/+19 [1d8+7, 2x1d6+7] (Str 22+3, BAB+12), Hp 112=75+37 (HD 15d8+1/2[12d10+12]), Evolution pool 20+3 (celestial appearance [7 pts]), improved evasion, ability increase (+1 str), Spells 1st-5th
Lvl 20: AC 29 (20 dex, +10 natural armor, +4 greater shielded meld), +23/+23/+23 [1d8+8, 2x1d6+8] (Str 24+3, BAB+15), Hp 147=100+47 (HD 20d8+1/2[15d10+15]), Evolution pool 26+5 (?, damage reduction [+2 pts], grab [bite], resistance [cold/sonic], skilled [acrobatics]), Spells 1st-6th
For me, I did not find this same result. This posting is with the assumption that the changes I am working on are necessary. I understand that you feel that just spreading out the evolutions fixes the problem. I feel differently and would like help in determining the best way to adjust the class with that assumption as a bases.
I also think your ability stat changes are a bit too severe. I'd advice to look closer at the scaling of Wildshaping and to add scaling like that. Or check how they do it in the topic I linked, there the str/dex bonus scales from +1 at level 2 to +8 at level 20 and they are enhancement bonuses, so they do not scale with items like belts. The chosen base type adds a bit more to it at level 1 and 3 (Biped adds a total of 4 str and 4 con, while Quadruped adds 2 str, 2 dex and 4 con). The constitution enhancement bonus never goes beyond four, which is plenty of extra hp. For comparison, a druid can, using wildshape to turn into a huge elemental, with elemental body he can get +8 str, or +6 con. For the druid they are all size bonuses, so they stack with the enhancement bonuses from belts. That +8 str can easily become +14, or the +6 con can become +12 con. And the druid can still cast 9th level spells while wildshaped too. I took a look at the druid wildshaping. Looking at the beast progression it's a progression similar to:
A synthesist with the modified stat increase mentioned at the top of the post could have a eidolon with the following progression:
In this comparison, the Synthesists appears to come out well ahead of the Druid in my opinion.
I did look at that writeup briefly. I still wasn't happy that a Synthesist could then top-load it by taking a even higher starting Strength (such as 18) and end up with a Biped Strength of 23 at 2nd level. I am definitely considering some of his modifications though :o). I think your own idea goes too far on the armor nerfs as Kolokotroni mentioned. Not to sure about not being able to cast spells either. A druid can do it with a feat, why not add a feat for the synthesist summoner so he can do the same? See my response to Kolokotroni for the armor nerf (also please remember that this thread isn't about whether a synthesist needs nerfing or not. It has the assumption that it does). The reasoning behind limitation on spellcasting was that the Synthesist appears to be able to fight just as well as the barbarian and fighter, but also fly, turn invisible, teleport, etc. This would make the melee front line fighter classes much less desirable. The Oracle, which like the synthesist is designed to be a melee fighter and yet have casting abilities is far behind the synthesist in hit/damage output, armor class, and hit points.. thus the balancing factor of the spellcasting. By allowing the summoner to use a swift action to suppress the eidolon, he can on his turn shift out and cast spells as needed (many of them with a casting time far longer than a few rounds). Its at these times that things like mage armor/shield/etc are useful to him. It means he is less likely to wear the eidolon suit the whole time. He can wade into combat as a merged form at the start of the fighter, suppress the eidolon and cast spells as a supporting caster for awhile, then take a round to shift back when he is needed in melee again.
Question, does the strength increase for the large evolution count against the only 2 higher? What about the periodic stat increases? By 20th level you have flat +8 to strength and 3 ability score increases. I could see having such a limitation based on the base form (if you want to get the most out of a bipedal eidolon your summoner heeds to have a 14 strength on his own). But if this applies to the various ways that increases the eidolons strength that is a problem. The limitation on the merged ability increase being within 2 of the Synthesist Strength only applies to the starting core form (for example, bipedal starts with Str 16). It does not apply to increases after that. Note that with the Ability increases being counted as Enhancement modifiers, a +11 Strength (Strength 27 for a biped) could not be combined with a Bull Strength spell (which other classes could still benefit from). Also I think you are going a bit too far on the armor class nerfs. Its true the eidolons and synthesists can get some pretty high ACs, but you seem to be removing every means by which they could increase their AC (including increasing their dexterity). That is going to greatly diminish their ability to be capable frontliners in most cases (which presumably a synthesist wants to be). A synthesists actual armor does not apply to his AC when merged, with no ability to increase it via magic or evolutions a fused synthesist will have VERY low ACs for a melee combatant. They can of course still use rings of protection (deflection bonuses), blur spells, stoneskin, turn invisible, etc. I did do a calculation for a Synthesists vs a two-weapon fighter, a beast totem barbarian, and a orcale (all using only the class abilities and no magic items except for magic armor). What I found was the with the above suggested house rules, the Synthesist ended up with a AC 29, the Barbarian AC 29, the Fighter AC 32, and the Oracle AC 20. I did want the Synthesists to be able to be in melee with the fighter types, but did not want him to do everything the melee fighters can do, plus have all the benefits beyond that of teleporting, turning invisible, etc. Otherwise, the fighter classes would lose their appeal. My personal view has been that in order to fix the summoner in general you just divide evolutions into offense, defense, and utility, and require that the summoner split their evolutions between them. That alone for the most part balances them with a reasonably well put together druid. I did indeed have a separate house rule that basically made them model their Eidolon after an existing creature type. If a griffon doesn't have 4 arms, neither can they (if thats their model). It didn't end up being enough of a adjustment (in my opinion of course), but it did help alot.
I'm slightly confused, however: if strength evolutions are bought, can the eidolon a strength score exceed the "within 2" qualification or no? I tried to clarify this with the entry that "Ability score increases after this work as normal." I meant that there was no restrictions on ability increases after the starting scores. It's basically a way to stop stat dumping. In a point buy system, a Synthesists who wants a starting Strength of 16 as a Biped, has to have a Strength 14 himself and thus end up with slightly lower mental stats. I will clarify this further in the rule. One of the things I do for the standard summoner is make them use one of the eidolon models. Unfortunately, that hasn't helped much with their action economy. I do this a variation on this as well. I have them model their Eidolon after a existing creature. If the creature doesn't have the ability, then they can't choose it as a Eidolon. Since most monsters are fairly well-balanced (plus have cool backgrounds), then it makes the class more interesting as well as structured.
This post assumes that the synthesist class needs to be reduced in power in certain ways. Please do not respond with posts about why this assumption is incorrect. I like the synthesist class, but after debate decided that for my homebrew campaign it would need to have some specific house rules to lower it's strength. I would love comments and suggestions about how I have done so. ------------------------------------ Summarized adjustments:
Here are the Rules I'll be using (based on combining many of the ideas provided by earlier posters). I'd love any suggestions beyond this: Every level, a caravan not only receives a feat, but an attribute point as well. Guard Job: +1 AC or +1 to attack. Advanced Caravan Jobs: These jobs have a requirement of 6 skill ranks in the relevant skill, ability to cast 3rd level spells, or +6 BAB. All bonuses listed stack with related job (listed in parenthesis) Chef (Cook): +1 Resolve
Masterwork Wagons are available from the start of the adventure (stats are in the last AP)
Caravan attack is now removed, and replaced by the Hero Combat action described below. If no heroes are present, the caravan gets one attack. Caravan damage increases at the same rate as that of a rogue’s sneak attack extra damage dice. At 1st level, 1d6, at 3rd 2d6, at 5th 3d6 and so on. The caravan rule for the spell “Create Food and Water” is removed and the spell works normally. Hero Combat actions: DC is set to 10 + the encounter level Attack: The Hero may make a caravan attack against the enemy AC, up to four heroes may take this action.
Summarized here
New Pathfinder campaign begins Sunday December 23rd, in the early evening in Concord, CA at my partner's house. We'll be playing every other week as regularly as possible. It's a pathfinder Rise of the Runelords campaign starting at 1st level. There are four of us now, all well adjusted guys/gals in their 30's to 40's. Several of us are experienced with Pathfinder (and 3.5 before that). One of the players is more of a "guest star," AKA a wonky schedule, so we're really short one to two person at the moment. We will have a Facebook group with tons of detail and that's generally how we will schedule, transmit campaign info and plan. Please contact me if interested at josiahknight@gmail.com
Heya Sean, great work. I would like to use this map for my council of thieves campaign to let the players get a idea of where things are in the city. The downside is that the map with text has several give-aways to the players (ie tells them where the bad guy lairs are). Is it possible to get the photoshop psd file for this map. This would allow me to change the following:
Thanks in advance for any help. I really, really appreciate all the help.
Heya Scott, Great work. I had a desire to help make a resource (a wiki) in which many collaberators could add ideas and concepts in a organized fashion for conversions for paizo products. Now that I have Curse of the Crimson Throne wiki setup, I thought I'd offer to set one up for Rise of the Runelords if you think you might be interested. Let me know, and great work all around. Knight
We now have 10 DM's registered (and thus able to add content) to the Curse of the Crimson Throne wiki. If interested, please register and add your ideas, concepts, and requests so we can work together. Knight
We now have 10 DM's registered (and thus able to add content) to the Curse of the Crimson Throne wiki. If interested, please register and add your ideas, concepts, and requests so we can work together. Knight
The wiki is up and running at the following website now. Edge of Anarchy Wiki(Edge of Anarchy Wiki Registration) I have given access to everyone who has registered so far. I am also putting conversions people have made on here on the wiki (with appropriate credits). If you want anything taken off there, please let me know. Happy Gaming,
The wiki is up and running at the following website now. Edge of Anarchy Wiki(Edge of Anarchy Wiki Registration) I have given access to everyone who has registered so far. I am also putting conversions people have made on here on the wiki (with appropriate credits). If you want anything taken off there, please let me know. Happy Gaming,
I have created a wiki to help collaborate our efforts. Currently it is a hidden website (mainly so my players don't access it). If interested in gaining access to the wiki (and contributing ideas and suggestions), please register here:
Contact josiahknight@gmail.com with any questions.
I have created a wiki to help collaborate our efforts. Currently it is a hidden website (mainly so my players don't access it). If interested in gaining access to the wiki (and contributing ideas and suggestions), please register here:
Contact josiahknight@gmail.com with any questions.
I was directed to this thread from other posters and will start posting my conversions on here. Here is my "other thread" if you wanted to see what we had there. I was also thinking of setting up a wiki to help organize the material conversions people are using. What does everyone think of that idea? Lastly, can contributing authors who feel like sharing what they have so far, please email me at josiahknight 'at' gmail 'dot' com.
How do you make the professional looking monster stat cards? I use a magic set editor program to create them, with another authors design style. If you send me a set of monster stats in email, I can easily make a card for you, or send you the directions to do so yourself. Email is josiahknight 'at' gmail 'dot' com. Since there is another thread for the conversions, I will post more updates on "this post".
Here is what I have so far: Part Two: City in Turmoil - Random Encounters
Part Four: Welcome to the Guard - All the World's Meat
Let's kick off a directed discussion about this. Please check out the general conversions thread if you need to see some example monsters and discussion on how to convert. I am running a Curse of the Crimson Thrones campaign and would love to take a look at what conversions other game masters have already done. No use reinventing the wheel. Edge of Anarchy
Nice posts and this was a ton of help. I compiled everything that was given so far into a single personal wiki I am using. I noticed that none of the 4e conversion material was posted on the Pathfinder Wiki. Is it because of the learning curve for using the Wiki? Also, has anyone else converted the commando yet into 4e?
I received a recent issue of Dragon magazine that was badly mangled along one corner of the magazine. This came as a surprise to me since I have almost always received my issues in near perfect condition. I ended up going to the store and purchasing the issue at full price so that I could get a good copy of it (since I use them quiet often in running games). While updating my subscription, I realized there was a message board and decided to check it for postings concerning this problem. I was surprised at the number of people posting such problems. I assume with hundreds (perhaps thousands) of buyers, that some of them will end up with damaged copies. I would like to get credited on my account for the copy I was forced to buy or perhaps gain a back issue that Im missing from my collection. Is this a possibility? Unlike some of the comments I have seen on here, I have received excellent customer service from paizo and don;t hold these small snags against them. I work in customer service myself, so realize how much work it takes them to maintain replies to these message boards etc. Keep up the amazing work on the magazines. Your loyal subscriber. |