Jarl's page

You have 2 9th level divine casters, a 9th level arcane caster, a trapfinder, and melee.

You seem to be missing a face and a skill monkey. Why don't you play a bard?

Jarl wrote:

I tried this system on my Bard at lv 11. Took all items off and this is the difference.

I wasn't able quite track what your group and specialty selections were... Mind spelling those out?

(I also didn't quite see how one could get skill bonuses that high, or in that many skills. For example, each knowledge skill is a different specialty, so it would take 10 specialty skill slots (as well as the Scholarly group) to get max ranks in all knowledge skills alone, whereas a 11th lvl Bard with a 13 int will only have 6 specialty skill slots... (I also wasn't quite sure how the bonuses were calculated---given no items, it seems a 11th level bard with a 13 int will have a max know bonus of 11(lvl)+1(int)+5(bard lvl/2)=+17... what am I missing?...))

Actually, I am going to have to back up a bit. I was using Herolab and I am going to have to bring into question how things like Favored Class Bonus, the Fast Learner feat, the Finding Haleen and other traits that give skills, a Headband of Intelligence item, etc. will effect this system.

I tried this system on my Bard at lv 11. Took all items off and this is the difference.

I feel like this might be a little too easy to get everything.

Notching an arrow to a bow is not a free action, because it's not a separate action from the standard attack or full attack actions, it's a part of them.

What about loading a gun 5 times in a round? Loading a pistol starts as a standard action and is reduced down to free action with cartridges and feats.

Why would someone use Kraken Throttle over Sleeper Hold or Chokehold?

You might consider a Life Spirit Possessed Shaman. It'll give you everything you need.

Jarl wrote:

Without multiweapon fighting it is -6/-10/-10/-10

With it you are looking at -2/-6/-6/-6

Pretty large deficits to overcome.

Except does that mean if I am fighting with a long sword in one hand and a short in the other I take a -2/-6?

Your Off-Hand is a Light Weapon, you have the multi-weapon fighting feat so shouldnt it act as Two-Weapon Fighting?

Here is the feat:

Multiweapon Fighting (Combat)

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.

Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.

Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

Without multiweapon fighting it is -6/-10/-10/-10

With it you are looking at -2/-6/-6/-6

Pretty large deficits to overcome.

Average people are rather weak though. I mean really really weak.

"OOC responsibilities that come with having a character that is the party leader?"

It's a role playing game. There are no OOC responsibilities other than don't ruin it. Play the character for who he is.

I have often contemplated giving Players a choice based on the amount of risk they're willing to take.

The average point-buy equivalency of the Standard (4d6) method is about 21 points, so I would give them a choice between that and the standard Point-Buy of 15 points.

That is taking the problem and making it even worse.

I have a player that would like to take the Lore Warden for a character in our Pathfinder home game.

I reviewed the archetype and found it to be a little too powerful.

That is literally the funniest thing I have read today.

Do you have a rogue build that cannot be matched or eclipsed by a bard?

I'd really be interested (and impressed actually) to see one.

Zen archers will be in insane using this system.

Also, have you considered the effect this will have on archetypes or different builds for the different classes? For instance, how would you assign the point buy for a melee oracle of battle?

I'd probably let people know that your point buy determines your multi-class ability. If you pick a high point buy class, you can only multi-class into high point buy classes. In other words, if you plan to multi-class your point buy determines what you get to multi-class into.

So sure you could go Monk1/Wizard19 but you get the point buy of a SAD class in that case.

Did you consider what this is going to do to any player who wants to take a prestige class which usually are already worse than staying as a single class character? It's going to make going into something like Eldritch Knight a terrible experience.

Yes. Virtually every weapon can be used for an SA. Even an earth breaker.

"It is up to the GM" is a terrible way to design a set of rules.

Be a tiefling.

Take the Blinding Sneak Attack feat.

It requires a +5 BAB, but it is easy.

I usually bring a bottle of bourbon to the session.

Not every paladin is going to be nice, kind, or lawful stupid. Heck, you couldn't make me play one even if you offered to pay me. Different from Lancelot doesn't necessarily mean bad wrong.

Ref: Sparhawk and Bazhell Bahnakson

This is a classic example of how some GM's can't handle having a paladin at the table.

In all fairness, that player should be advised to reroll another class before he becomes attached to his character.

Have you considered other options?

While the fighter nets some strong features for a few levels, so would a few levels of ranger (natural attacks or easy entry combat feats). Barbarian, also, adds a lot to any melee combatant.

Trying to suggest Rage doesn't imply anger is asinine.

They could have called it "Class Ability B". Having a fluffy name does not require every barbarian to be a mindless berserker.

I find rage cycling unaesthetic. The intent behind "once per rage" powers was clearly not that they be used every round, regardless of how powerful barbarians may or may not be, comparatively.

As for the level 17 rage-without-fatigue: I'm not convinced the intent was to enable rage cycling to use OPR-powers. I think it was to make it easy to just casually spend a round of rage when it strikes your fancy, not keeping rage going in rounds where you don't have much to do. For example, round 1, rage and kill some things. Round 2, switch rage off, move around a bit, do some non-killing stuff. Round 3, rage on again and kill more stuff.

I find that funny.

Barbarian: "I'm level 17! I can rage cycle now!"

Wizard: "I'm level 17, I can cast Wish and change the way the universe works..."

Cleric: "Me too!" <casts Miracle>

Rage cycling is as cheap as 15k gp (or 7.5k go if you know a crafter).

Given the low cost and ease of availability, I'd say that it's not at all overpowered.

So anyone who uses ant poison is evil. So is every farmer who wants to protect his crops.

That doctor who wants you to sleep before operating...yup he is evil too.

Maybe his ruling was just a bad one?

Surrender doesn't necessarily mean a person gets to live. Sometimes it just means a quick merciful death.

Some consequences from Full BAB:

Extra attacks
Faster feat progression
Better CMB
Better to hit(well duh)

As a player, I feel that getting Full BAB is too powerful lol

Both the ranger (combat styles & spells) and barbarian (rage powers) are still more preferable compared to that. It is not that great.

Why do you need that when you can circumvent tremorsense by a 1000 gp item?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots -of-the-soft-step

Here's a simple Inquisitor.

Sure. You just need to find a way to be proficient. For example, worship this guy:
Svarozic (Favored Weapon scythe)

And if d8,really is too squishy, both the abilities above come at level 1. You could just use it as a dip and go barbarian or something else big for the rest.

Class: Inquisitor
Inquisition: Conversion

Leave cha low, pump wis and make use of:

Stern Gaze (Ex): Inquisitors are skilled at sensing deception and intimidating their foes. An inquisitor receives a morale bonus on all Intimidate and Sense Motive checks equal to 1/2 her inquisitor level (minimum +1).

Charm of Wisdom (Ex): You use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Charisma modifier when making Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.

Even when your are nice, you're scary.

Even outside of the class list, UMD as a class skill is just a trait away.

i am sorry but how can you state that a fighter dose more damage than a rogue? rogues can take most of the feats a fighter can to boost damage.

Because fighters hit more often, crit more often, and do so with more static damage modifiers.

Only for the purposes of move speed, not for proficiency.

That said, mithral breastplate is still pretty amazing if you're trying to have a decent AC and still be able to stealth. It's only 3 less AC than full plate, but it doesn't require any extra effort to wear.

Hmm, not sure what I was thinking. Good catch.

Trapper/Freebooter Ranger 1-2 levels.
Invulnerable Rager Barbarian the rest.

Ask if you can take the "Finding Haleen" trait for the +1 skill point every lvl. Take the Armor Expert trait so you can wear a mithral breast plate with -0 ACP or even mithral full plate with a minor -2. (Think Celestial Plate Armor)

Make sure you take the Superstitious (saves), Smasher and consider the Spell Sunder and Sunder Enchantment rage powers.

Max out stealth, perception and disable device.

Try not to giggle too much as you smash everything, kill everything and shake everything off with your "thief" during play.

Mithral Breastplate. +6 AC and -1 ACP. Counts as light armor and you could stealth just fine.

If really are giving up stealth, you really should consider mithral heavy armors since they count as medium and you can wear them with no issues. Mithral field plate will net you +7 AC with -2 ACP and Mithral full plate +9 AC with -3 ACP.

Your sense of entitlement to the benefits of other peoples' feats and personal character investment is astounding. Why do you get to be offended by not getting a 50% discount off of someone else's investment? How is not acceding to your demands of free labor stealing from you? Does he become your indentured servant the moment he chooses a crafting feat?

Likewise, the lucky guy who gets an 18 roll can be asked to make some concessions.

Hmm, perhaps I am cynical or something, but my expected answer on that request after a "fair" roll would be a resounding, "No, I don't think so Tim."

Jarl wrote:

Eli Hammerlock wrote:

Jarl wrote:

Eli Hammerlock wrote:

Black Moria wrote:

In other words, you wanted items crafted for you for free. My advice - Pay the 10% overhead and be happy.

Um no, since I still pay the 50% price for the item. What I'm saying is that the 10% extra charge is a bit greedy on his part since he still gets the share of the loot and exp.

Ironically, you are in actuality being more greedy than the crafter you are complaining about.

If you were both worth 20,000 gp and you commissioned him to make you an item that you would normally pay 10k gp for at 60% of the price instead, you would in the end be worth 24,000 gp while he 21,000 gp. You still ended up 3,000 gp richer than you would be had you gone to a merchant.

What do you mean? Lets say the same situation and I had 12k gold to spend and he had 12k gold to spend.

I pay him 12k gold for an item worth 20k. He crafts it for me and I have no money with a 20k gear.

He now has 14k gold to spend and can craft a 28k worth of an item. Now he has no money and has 28k gear

This will eventually stack up to the point where he completely surpass me, which is what I'm worried about.

Ok, using your numbers.

You both have 12k gp.

You pay him 12k gp which at 60% means you are getting an item worth 20k gp. Your total worth is now 20k gp, which for you is a 8k gp increase over what you should have compared to buying at a merchant. You just got paid 8k gp.

He, on the other hand, got 12k gp from you, but then had to spend 10k gp on materials and crafting expenses (you know 50% of the items worth). This means he got to keep 2k gp and is now worth 14k gp.

Your total worth 20k gp. His total worth 14k gp.

The crafter's wealth is potentially 28k because it is not as though he is not going to be crafting his own gear too. If you factor in crafted gear on one side of the equation you have to do it on the other too for a fair comparison.

Quite right. That is the benefit of spending a feat on crafting rather than on making the character better in combat situations.

Were I the buyer, I'd much prefer getting the item I want from the crafter at a 40% discount over not being able to afford one at all, since he doesn't have 20k gp for the 20k gp item. I'd also take a 20k vs. 28k net worth ratio over the (screw you buy it elsewhere) 12k vs. 24k net worth ratio.

But hey, math is hard for some people.

I prefer rolling, Point Buy is a min-maxers favourite, so if you want less cheese, go with rolling.

Plus, I hate having to decide how to spread them so I prefer rolling for that reason. My preference for a well-rounded character contributes to this too.

This is exactly the opposite of my experience. Common rolling methods end up with some people rolling til they get a set they like and then rearranging them to suit their wants.

Min-Maxers min-max regardless of which system is used. At least with a stat array or point buy, there is some assurance that the characters are somewhat on a level playing field.

Jarl wrote:

Eli Hammerlock wrote:

Black Moria wrote:

In other words, you wanted items crafted for you for free. My advice - Pay the 10% overhead and be happy.

Um no, since I still pay the 50% price for the item. What I'm saying is that the 10% extra charge is a bit greedy on his part since he still gets the share of the loot and exp.

Ironically, you are in actuality being more greedy than the crafter you are complaining about.

If you were both worth 20,000 gp and you commissioned him to make you an item that you would normally pay 10k gp for at 60% of the price instead, you would in the end be worth 24,000 gp while he 21,000 gp. You still ended up 3,000 gp richer than you would be had you gone to a merchant.

What do you mean? Lets say the same situation and I had 12k gold to spend and he had 12k gold to spend.

I pay him 12k gold for an item worth 20k. He crafts it for me and I have no money with a 20k gear.

He now has 14k gold to spend and can craft a 28k worth of an item. Now he has no money and has 28k gear

This will eventually stack up to the point where he completely surpass me, which is what I'm worried about.

Ok, using your numbers.

You both have 12k gp.

You pay him 12k gp which at 60% means you are getting an item worth 20k gp. Your total worth is now 20k gp, which for you is a 8k gp increase over what you should have compared to buying at a merchant. You just got paid 8k gp.

He, on the other hand, got 12k gp from you, but then had to spend 10k gp on materials and crafting expenses (you know 50% of the items worth). This means he got to keep 2k gp and is now worth 14k gp.

Your total worth 20k gp. His total worth 14k gp.

Black Moria wrote:

In other words, you wanted items crafted for you for free. My advice - Pay the 10% overhead and be happy.

Um no, since I still pay the 50% price for the item. What I'm saying is that the 10% extra charge is a bit greedy on his part since he still gets the share of the loot and exp.

Ironically, you are in actuality being more greedy than the crafter you are complaining about.

If you were both worth 20,000 gp and you commissioned him to make you an item that you would normally pay 10k gp for at 60% of the price instead, you would in the end be worth 24,000 gp while he 21,000 gp. You still ended up 3,000 gp richer than you would be had you gone to a merchant.

If you do not like him benefiting from his feats, why don't you sacrifice some combat abilities & spend your feats on crafting?

That'll show him.

I would take it at 5th lvl or consider dipping into an Unbreakable Fighter for both Endurance and Diehard at lvl 7.

Stealth is still probably not a paladin thing (at least hiding the shadows to try to get the drop on an unaware opponent)

Why not? Are paladins not allowed to use tactics?

He doesn't trust the official forums...where the developers post?

Quite possibly. I'm not saying you're going to walk in and he's going to let you pass without any concern, but the chances that you (as a paladin) can find a way to peacefully gain access to the mcguffin by convincing the angel of your need, and of his gods desire, for you to access the item...it's seems far more likely than a paladin walking into the room with the angel and just deciding that "Hey, that angel wont let me prance on it to what I want so I'm going to kill him!".

What if the paladin serves Torag and the angel serves Sarenrae? Are you sure that the Paladin will be seeing eye to eye with the angel then?

In before the archer fighter, archer paladin, & archer inquisitor make the nerfed gunslinger look even more like a chump.

It seems likely that a paladin would recognize an angel or archon and talk to them rather than fight. There would have to be some very specific circumstances to cause the two to fight one another. Without more information I would say they wouldn't fight as their general goals are the same.

Guarding a room may be the angels order, but he is not mindless. Guarding it from what? Guarding it for what? What is he guarding? If the party manages to arrive at the room under great need, is it unreasonable that the paladin could address the angel and inform him of the circumstances and convince him to allow him to pass? I think it's more reasonable that an angel would understand the paragon of goodness that is the paladin and help him in any reasonable way possible.

So a LAWFUL good angel is going to disobey orders for a mortal? Really?

I would not allow a paladin to engage an angel in combat with one exception: if the angel were placed as a guard to test the worthiness of people trying to enter the room then there could be a combat, but it would not be to the death.

Why not? There is nothing evil or code breaking in engaging in combat with an angel.

What if conditions were such that the paladin might fall if he fails to engage?