First time playing a spellcaster, need some help building a stealthy healer


Advice


Hey guys. I am creating a character for a thieves guild kind of campaign. Our party badly needs a healer and the task of dual wielding characters fell to me (our party is kinda small). We are starting at first level and so far we have a rogue, gunslinger, wizard and a monk. Our party badly needs a healer that can be stealthy but doesn't die easily. I am thinking of building an inquisitor or a cleric but I have never played a spell caster before and I don't have much an idea how to proceed (I have played a fighter, ranger, and rogue before). The character needs to be non-lawful and non-good and can't worship a good deity. I have yet to choose a race. I can use stuff from any of the books that are available on the PRD along with inner sea gods. I have rolled my stats with 4d6 and am at a bit of a loss where to put them as the cleric from the little I know can have many different types of roles in the party. I rolled these pretty awesome stats: 15,18,9,13,15,21.

Silver Crusade

Your first step is to decide which kind of cleric you want to play. Put a couple points into Stealth skill, avoid heavy armor, and BAM! you are stealthy. Being sneaky is a role playing outlook that has little to do with your character's mechanical abilities. Only when you know which kind of cleric you want to play is it possible to allocate your ability scores.

P.s. The best way to get the entire party stealthy is for everyone to take the teamwork feat Stealth Synergy. This feat would allow a clumsy dwarven cleric in full plate armor to sneak with the best of them ...

Edit: Inquisitor works, too, as RainyDayNinja suggests below. Your best healing would remain a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, though ...

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

An Inquisitor could be a good stealthy infiltrator/assassin-type character, but isn't going to be good at healing. You could play a Cleric with the Trickery domain, which gets you Bluff, Stealth, and Disguise as class skills. Calistria is a CN goddess who would fit, and would also let you channel positive energy and spontaneously cast cure spells. The Separatist archetype would let you pick the Healing domain even though it isn't in her portfolio, which would eventually get you free Empower Spell on your cure spells. Maybe something like...

Human Cleric of Calistria (Separatist)
9/21/15/13/15/18+2
1: Deceitful, Selective Channel
3: Versatile Channel
5: Extra Channel
...and so on

You probably don't need to worry about attacking besides a crossbow, and instead rely on support, spells, channeling, and face skills.


Calistria sounds like a good choice. However I think my party needs some sort of a battle cleric who also serves as a healer. Our main fighter is a monk, which works but I personally think we need someone whio can hit heavily and also heal.

Scarab Sages

You could supplement your Cleric/Oracle levels with Illusionist levels (or even go full-steam Mystic Theurge) and run around invisibly - or you could be a Bard, getting you healing and invisibility magic (as well as the Disguise and Stealth skills) with no need for multiclassing (a Bard would be a good fit for a "thieves' guild" campaign, too).

Silver Crusade

I agree with Hiding in Your Closet! A Bard would be an excellent choice. Choose to Inspire Courage with a Battle Dance, rather than Song, to remain quiet. Bards are naturally stealthy and sneaky, and would fit the milieu. While a Bard is not as good at healing as a Cleric, they tend to be good enough to cover all Out of Combat healing. Bards also have a lot of options that can mitigate damage. The most efficient way to heal is to prevent the damage before HP loss occurs.

Of course, an Evangelist archetype Cleric combines most of the damage mitigation of a Bard with most the healing power of a cleric. The Bard wins on skill points, though.


You might consider a Life Spirit Possessed Shaman. It'll give you everything you need.

Spoiler:
Unnamed Hero
Half-elf shaman (possessed shaman) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 35, 111)
N Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +1; Senses low-light vision; Perception +6
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 10 (+1 Dex)
hp 11 (1d8+3)
Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +6; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Special Attacks channel positive energy 1/day (DC 10, 1d6)
Shaman (Possessed Shaman) Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +5)
. . S spirit magic spell; Spirit Life Wandering Spirit
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 12, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 18, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 12
Feats Skill Focus (Stealth)
Traits highlander (hills or mountains)
Skills Acrobatics +5, Diplomacy +4, Heal +8, Perception +6, Spellcraft +4, Stealth +12 (+14 in hilly or rocky areas); Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, highlander (hills or mountains)
Languages Common, Elven
SQ elf blood, spirit animal (ptarmigan named Arcane Familiar)
Other Gear 150 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Empathic Link with Familiar (Su) You have an empathic link with your Arcane Familiar.
Familiar Bonus: +3 to Stealth checks You gain the Alertness feat while your familiar is within arm's reach.
Highlander (hills or mountains) +1 to Stealth checks, Stealth is always a class skill for you. Double this in hilly or rocky areas.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Shaman Channel Positive Energy 1d6 (1/day, DC 10) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Share Spells with Familiar Can cast spells with a target of "You" on the familiar with a range of touch.


Is their a partron god of theives in pathfinder like Oldimara from 3.5 D&D?

Silver Crusade

Norberger


Could a Chirurgeon Alchemist make a passable healer?

Silver Crusade

Absolutely!


An alchemist would be fun to play as. I think I will go with an alchemist. What about a drow?

Grand Lodge

Dark Tapestry Oracle-
This can push the group towards using darkness strategies. It does help tho if people have darkvision. Also using this kind of strategy makes the Rogue worst of a class than it already is if they can't see clearly in the darkness as concealment shuts off Sneak attack.

Druid-
What's more stealthier than turning into a something like an earth elemental and glide under the earth undetected to most without tremorsense? Or flying by with a pack of birds scouting from the skies. THis class can heal...and will do most outside combat with a wand of Cure lights. (every healer should!) But you will be able to do just about anything you want.

Alchemist or Investigator-
Brew up the answers you need for healing and still UMD a wand of cure. With the Infusion Discovery you can buff allies really well.

Bard-
Can be as stealthy and supportive as you need to be.

Inquisitor-
The holy rogue type. He can accomplish lite healer duties. He will have plenty of spells and skills to be silent and deadly with. This guy doesn't buff the team well but he helps kill the enemy before the group takes too much damage.

Cleric of Trickery or Darkness
This allows you to pick between Lighting stealthiness(darkness) or Illusionary Stealthiness(Trickery)
Sivanah and Calistria is a awesome god for trickery domain.
I've personally not played as a darkness cleric before but a good chunk of the gods will be evil. you can still pick the Neutral counterpart on alignment.

My suggestion as a cleric is avoid all Channel feats. Don't get roped into specializing in a sub-par healing ability and throw away feats. Your mandatory feat is level 11 Divine Interference. There are variant channeling builds that make channeling better but since you're starting out I'm not recommending Variant channeling mass daze build. you're going to have enough problems understanding the spells.


What kind of weapons and gear would a first level alchemist need. She has a high dexterity and a decent strength bonus.


Magda Luckbender wrote:

Your first step is to decide

P.s. The best way to get the entire party stealthy is for everyone to take the teamwork feat [url="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/stealth-synergy-teamwork"]Stealth Synergy. This feat would allow a clumsy dwarven cleric in full plate armor to sneak with the best of them .

I talked my gaming group into taking this. It has been a lot of fun. The best part is the bigger the party the better it works. Never again will we have the ability to skulk around like we do now...I am going to miss this in every future campaign.

What's funny is that since person with the lowest modifier drives the group stealth check there will almost be a 'stealth arms race' to not be the lowest. In our party it went back and forth between the Barbarian and the Cleric cohort.

If you can get them to commit to a feat and a skill point each level you will have a blast (some people may want to grab a trait to get it as a class skill).


All you really need for a healer is someone with the right spells on their list. An inquisitor has most of the spells needed so can work quite well as the healer. The best way to deal with healing is with wands, scrolls, and potions. Take a couple of “Healing” spells to give you the ability to deal with emergencies as they come up.

The inquisitor has plenty of other abilities so that unlike the cleric he does not have to depend on his spells to contribute to combat. Between bane, judgements and other abilities he has a lot of things he can do in combat besides cast spells. Looking at your party you have two characters maybe three that are going to want to avoid frontline combat. That means your character and the monk are your primary melee combatants. If you are in the middle of combat you are probably not going to be casting a lot of combat spells anyways.

If you play a human inquisitor you can use their favored class bonus for extra spells and you will have plenty of slots for other spells. This will allow you to pick up the healing spells you need and still have other useful spells.

If the rouge is not going to be the party face take either the conversion, or heresy inquisition and you can dump CHA and still be the party face.

The last thing to consider is that inquisitor is one of the best skill based characters in the game. The 6 skill per level may seem less than the rogue, but they get more bonuses than anyone except a bard. They are almost impossible to fool due to a ridiculous sense motive. They can match a ranger when it comes to tracking. The bonus to intimidate means no one is better at it then they are. And if they take improved monster lore they can identify monsters better than a bard.


A War Priest seems a good fit. Divine Spellcaster who can fight H to H.

A Cultist of Charun is a cleric archetype that does some rogue things and might fir in.

Silver Crusade

Sounds like the OP has decided on an alchemist. OP says she's reasonably strong and dexterous.

She won't need much gear at first level: whatever tool kit an Alchemist needs, light armor, and a weapon system.

Good backup weapons (every PC needs backup weapons!) are club, sling, and dagger.

For primary weapon, of course, I'd recommend a longspear and reach tactics. This combines strong offense and defense. Lots of other fighting styles exist, and are also effective.


all good possibilities - but what about this:

Halfling oracle (doesn't need to be a community guardian, though you may find what you like there too)
Life mystery.

If you have any mechanism for invisibility, you're golden, but let's face it, your stealth won't cut it unless its a class skill; so as a trait, take Bandit. +1 stealth, and stealth is a class skill. Add in the halfling bonuses for size and you've got a big boost.

Now for the invisibility... If you can remain out of sight, you won't have to be anywhere near the front lines. A clever enemy may decide that if you're not visible, but the guy they're trying to step on keeps healing somehow, that you must be nearby. Healing oracle mystery allows for a revelation to make all touch-based healing spells usable from close range.

Invisibility/line of sight breaks just isn't possible from the cleric spell list until much later, but Gold is usually available from level 2 or 3 on. For ~2-4 thousand gold, you could easily buy a custom item that gives you Vanish CL3, 3 uses a day. 3 Round invis, helps to either stand in the open and heal for a couple rounds, while breaking LOS so you can recheck your copious stealth skill. Optionally, get something made with more clicks but a lower cl. (you only technically need say, 1 round to break line of sight: standard action click, move action: dip behind a barrel, stealth.)

This is, overall, an option for those who just can't stand multiclass dipping or who don't want a break in your spell progression at the early levels, which I get, I really do. Still, any class devoted to healing alone may almost be overkill, as dedicated healers often find that they don't use heals nearly as often as they'd think. So, take some buffs too. You won't be doin squat for damage if you decide to get into the fight, with your little sling, but hey, at least you'll be accurate. Magic stone, level 1 spell.

Anyway, if you've got a bunch of low-ac frontliners with high dps, and you're going up against numerous combats between rests, healing oracle is pretty handy.


Oh... shoot, my bad missed the battle-cleric part...

Okay to amend: getting a higher AC with a small race is slightly easier. Take a chain shirt, and a shield. You can pick a nice material out to remove the skillcheck penalties, too. If your plans' to be involved in frontlining, your role isn't to do damage with melee- just to be able to survive.

Take the channel ability. Take selective channeling feat as soon as possible: now you can AOE heal, and be sure to hit that Monk in your party. With a few decent buffs, you may not hit like a truck, but you'll be survivable, and a huge annoyance to your enemies.

You might consider taking Defensive Maneuver training to avoid getting punted - being small is already a disadvantage, but as with most medium BAB classes, your CMD is a weak point.

Anyway, Being a battle cleric doesn't so much require you to be able to pump out melee damage. With the extra spell slots of an oracle and your heal channels, it frees up known spells on the higher end, to take some game-changing offensive spells. Later cleric spells tend to be either big fat AOE damagers, or Damage over time effects, or "if you hit me, this bad thing happens* effects, while they have great buffs for yourself or your allies.

So be a durable little healer-grunt, drop some inflict critical wounds, or poison on some boss, or Trial of Fire and Acid. Outlast your enemies. Ouch, they hit you, *heal*.
Buff your monk up - he's built to dish out damage. Trying to fulfill two or more roles usually ends up that you are lacking in all of them, and you're trying to fulfill at least three: frontliner, dps, and healer. So focus on the frontliner/healer, use your extra spells known for some buffs and offense, and leave the damage to the monk and other members of the party, they can live up to it.

Edit: Also, remember that if you need to heal while on the front line,
channeling doesn't require concentration checks. You can always supplement your ability to cast defensively by taking combat casting, and in your case you may *want* to proc attacks of opportunity, for example, if you have Shield of Dawn up. If you can outheal the damage they do, have some DR on through another spell, and a decent concentration (which you will need, either way, on the front line) then you'll use channeling to heal early in the fight, then once you're buffed up, you start casting offensive spells to clean out the stragglers/debuff and kill a boss. Or you can just consider this- the Safe heal revelation. If you want ot be on the front, those heals usually come at a time when you CANNOT afford to fail a concentration. Taking this revelation means you NEVER proc an attack of opportunity when healing, therefore you don't need to worry about concentration. Pick buffs that youll cast before getting into combat, then focus on survival and the occasional nuke/dot/debuff when the opportunity presents itself.

Option B) the standard fare - start the fight out with one or two of your big bangs (flamestrike) then as your enemies weaken, just hold on to your shield and channel heal when necessary.


just grab goblin as your race. and take a domain or trait the give stealth as class skill.
level one goblin get +4 recial to dex so a 5 point dip would yield an 18 total dex. +4 rcial to stealth,+4 small size bonus to stelath.1 rank+3 fev class and your at +16 stealth at level 1 without taking any skill focus(stealth) which you should later on if you plan on keeping the stealth on the leveling pace(and once you hit 10th rank remmber the feat bonus goes from +3 to +6)


zza ni wrote:

just grab goblin as your race. and take a domain or trait the give stealth as class skill.

level one goblin get +4 recial to dex so a 5 point dip would yield an 18 total dex. +4 rcial to stealth,+4 small size bonus to stelath.1 rank+3 fev class and your at +16 stealth at level 1 without taking any skill focus(stealth) which you should later on if you plan on keeping the stealth on the leveling pace(and once you hit 10th rank remmber the feat bonus goes from +3 to +6)

yeah, really any small race will do, particularly one that gives +2 dex and doesnt have a wisdom detriment.


Correction to my previous post: life oracle doesn't get a revelation to increase their casting distance or touch-heals. I was thinking of someone else. Rather, you'd need that third level spell sacred bond, which is how the oracle player in one of my campaigns was achieving this.

Regardless of that, they still get the channeling, and the boosted heals, and the ability to cast heals without the AoO procs, so, still a good front line healer, particularly if you cast sacred bond on another frontliner before the fight. And you could always use the selective channel to aoe heal if he gets separated from you.


What about using an elven curve blade with weapon finnesse and playing as an elf or drow? Its expensive but a good weapon. Then playing a "master Hyde" kind of alchemist,


By the way now I am just looking at ways to make a chirurgeon vivesectionist alxhemist who is able to heal okay. I need advice on weapons and armor and feats. My gm us providing us with weapons for no cost but we still get to decide what type.


Also what fighting styles would be the most effective for an alchemist with a high dex?


Just to throw even more ideas in, what about a naga aspirant? You get healing spells from the druid and the ability to add some really nice spells to your class list, including (greater) invisibility and divine favor. Naga form makes you a frightening grappler; invisibility handles stealth, and serpent flavor seems spot-on for thieves and deceivers.


What rolling system gave you a 21 in a stat? Egads!

If you have your heart set on vivisectionist, you'll want ways to get sneak attack more efficiently.

-Ways to get into a flank
--feats: dodge, mobility, gang up;
--skills: acrobatics
--extracts: expeditious retreat

-Ways to feint (although feinting is situational. For instance, its impossible to psyche out a skeleton)
--combat expertise + bluff

-Ways to go invisible/concealed
--stealth
--spells: invisibility, darkness (if the targets can't see in the dark and you can).
--feats: maybe the moonlight stalker chain?

There are traits you can take (if your gm uses traits) to give you acrobatics and stealth as class skills.

Alchemists, IMO, are substandard healers, since virtually the only way they can heal is via extracts or potions. In my opinion, your best option are to build up your potion making skills, and let your teammates heal themselves when they need to.

You want the following discoveries, probably: infusion, dilution (level 12! ack!). A tumor familiar would help a lot with potion delivery (have it run potions/extracts around for you).

Having a decent UMD score to use cleric-only scrolls and wands wouldn't be a bad idea either.

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