Posted this on Reddit, reposting here to cover my bases.
So since PF2 started I had written off Inhaled poisons as a situational hazard for DMs to use as traps, but never really considered using them as an NPC or PC.
However, the Inhaled trait states:
"An inhaled poison is activated by unleashing it from its container. Once unleashed, the poison creates a cloud filling a 10-foot cube lasting for 1 minute or until a strong wind dissipates the cloud. Every creature entering this cloud is exposed to the poison and must attempt a saving throw against it; a creature aware of the poison before entering the cloud can use a single action to hold its breath and gain a +2 circumstance bonus to the saving throw for 1 round."
My understanding of this is that the container of inhaled poison can be opened and the 10 ft cube can be centered on the user OR pointed in a direction, so the cube only has to be adjacent to the user. Is this correct?
Also, can inhaled poison containers be thrown like a bomb, breaking on impact and releasing the toxins into the air?
If the directed-release or thrown uses work, Inhaled poisons are a LOT more useful than I had assumed based on previous experience. It would allow Alchemists and others to use inhaled poisons as battlefield control items, which hasn't been part of the Alchemists/Alchemical Items discourse that I've seen.
I suspect this reading is incorrect, otherwise others would have spotted it first, but I don't think its necessarily wrong. If nothing else, it'd be interesting to make an alchemical tool that releases inhaled poisons as a 15 foot cone or something.
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My understanding of this is that the container of inhaled poison can be opened and the 10 ft cube can be centered on the user OR pointed in a direction, so the cube only has to be adjacent to the user. Is this correct?
I would expect so. If you had to use it in your own location, that would be really bad.
Also, can inhaled poison containers be thrown like a bomb, breaking on impact and releasing the toxins into the air?
I don't think so. If it was intended to be used as a bomb, then it would have the bomb trait. Or at least some similar rules wording that says that you can throw it, and how to throw it (what attack bonus to use and DC to roll against).
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It would make sense to be able to throw a fragile container and have it smash.
But how far can you throw it accurately? How fragile can this container be, and not break when stored in an easy-access pocket when you get smashed by a club?
We don't have rules for that. I guess we have sturdy containers. Bombs are somehow designed to work when you throw them, but you do some kind of "activation" as part of throwing them.
A feat for effectively throwing inhaled poisons doesn't sound unreasonable.
I would probably just homebrew an 'inhaled poison bomb' item. It deals no initial or splash damage. It just creates the area of poison in the location of the target creature.
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Yeah maybe that makes more sense. It could work something like this:
- Thrown against AC; works on a miss but not a critical miss (like splash weapons). Enemies still get a save of course so they might still be unaffected.
- Can be drawn & thrown with Quick Bomber.
- alchemical consumable. Requires a separate reagent to make. Item level must be at least equal to the level of the poison. (Heftier poisons require heftier containers to safely use.) If poisons are a valid choice for your perpetual infusions, you can also select these.
- If you make it with quick alchemy, the actions to fabricate this and draw the poison payload are combined.
Which is kind of funny... most other AoE hazards include both "enter area" and "begin turn inside area" triggers so that even if you are already inside you're already covered
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I don't think there's a totally consistent rules style for ongoing area hazards. It would be nice if there were. If only to just make it easier to remember;
stinking cloud affects people who end in the area
cloudkill moves around and affects creatures who start in the area
flammable fumes affect you when you enter the area or when you start your turn in it/
In both of those cases, you could walk through them and be fine.
Poisons with the inhaled trait affect anyone entering the area. You can hold your breath to get a bonus to saves for a round. But does it affect you if you were already in the area when the cloud was created (the cloud enters your area, not the other way around..)? And why is the one-round bonus relevant? If you stay in the area for a couple of rounds, do you need to make new saves? If you walk out and back in, do you need to make more saves than if you stay in?
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TL;DR - it's highly inconsistent
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I generally just grit my teeth and treat all "when you enter" effects as "when you enter or if the effect enters your space". The lack of symmetry really irritates me otherwise.
That you can sprint through a cloudkill/stinking cloud as long as you make sure not to start/end your turn in it, I guess it's a tactical gimmick?
In a better world these things would be more uniform. Just you know, slap a
"persistent area" trait on the effect and that takes care of mechanics and you don't have to explain it again and again and differently each time in new books.
For added cool, breath control helps too.
Makes the Air Bubble reactionary spell much more useful in a combat situation, so I'm all for this interpretation.