Harad Navar's page

The Unofficial Pathfinder Online Atlas Version 2.0 has been released.

New in Version 2.0

• Home - This tab contains a greeting, a revision list, and copyright/license information.
• In-Game Map - This tab shows the actual game map with zoom, with a legend of map icons.
• Geographic Regions and Terrain Type - This shows the geographic regions for the full extent of PFO as well as terrain types for game hexes. The legend provides some resource availability information.
• Sphere of Influence and Faction Allegiance - This map shows areas that have been publicly (in either the Goblinworks or Paizo forums) claimed as a "Sphere of Influence" by specific in-game groups. A hex is "claimed" in-game through the building of Holdings in that hex.
• Holdings, Outposts and Other Structures [UNDER CONSTRUCTION] - When fully implemented this atlas page will show the locations, types, and ownership of persistent player built structures in game. These include holdings, outposts, and inns. Smallholdings, basecamps, and camps will not be shown as they can be more frequently move than other structures.
• Make Your Own Maps for Settlement Management - This atlas page will provide links to tutorials for making your own PFO maps using QGIS. Links to the QGIS software and to a base data set are already on the page.
• Hex Size Correction - The sizes of the terrain hexes has been corrected to remove the foreshortening erroneously introduced in version 1.0h.

Please feel free to post suggestions, comments, or errors to this thread.

Harad Navar, of the 36th Order

Greetings! I am in the process of creating a new version of the Atlas. That version will have an Areas of Influence page showing areas claimed by organizations in PFO. Please provide me with a link to where your organization has publicly claimed an area to be under their influence so I can put that area on the Influence map. Your organizations's claim must have been made publicly in either the Goblinworks forums or the PFO Paizo forums.

Thanks
Harad Navar of the 36th Order

I have discovered that if you are killed near a monster you can still click on your husk from a small distance, right click to pull up inventory, then take all. If you are killed again before you collect your first husk, a second husk will appear, but I actually had something in my inventory the second time.
[EDIT] You can claim your husk and it does not break stealth.

A new version of the Unofficial Pathfinder Online Atlas is now available, just in time for EE.

New in Version 1.0

• Side Tabs: Restructured site to have expandable side tabs rather than selectable horizontal tabs. Click on icon to open tab; click on highlighted icon (in blue) to close the tab.
• User Markers: Click on Marker Icon (below the +/- Icon), then click on map to add your own markers to the map with the marker coordinates as a popup. Click on the Trash Icon, then click on a marker to delete the marker. Note: These markers will be deleted when browser session closes. They will be savable/reloadable in a future release.
• Settlements Tab: In the Settlement Tab, click on the settlement name to zoom to the settlement in-map. Buildings will appear at that zoom level. Mouse-over for building name (if there is one) and click for building detail (if there is detail). Note: Thornkeep and PC settlements (and their buildings) will come later.
• The Terrain Hex Data Layer has been temporarily removed for a re-build.
• Added Geographic Region data layer. Mouse-over for Geographic Region name. Resource data will be available in a later release by clicking in region.
• The Settlement Data Layer is now hexes rather than points. Mouse-over for name, click for detailed information.

The previous incarnation of the Nettles was essentially RP-based. This version is Game-based using what I believe (or hope) will be in game at the start of EE and beyond.
The initial goals of the Nettles are:

• Becoming the Best at Gathering and Refining Plant Resources.
• Developing Best Practices for Exploring and Understanding Wilderness Hexes.
• Developing Best Practices for Long Distance Company Actions.

• Form Nettles as an in-game, settlement sponsored company; begin accepting members. - The initial settlement for sponsorship of the Nettles will be Phaeros, mostly because I plan on being a member of Phaeros, if they will have me.
• At starter settlements members work at developing forestry, nature, and other skills; attack/defense skills (for personal and group safety); and refining skills (focusing initially on, but not limited to, Apothecary).
• Company members are encouraged to join with other company members in their starter settlements to begin to become accustom to working in a group rather than solo. - Working in a company may mean relaying on others that you may not know very well. Forming a group of new characters in your starter settlement simply because they are in your company is an ideal way to begin strengthening those skills. It is my belief that no one can be their best in PFO without the support of others. I am not excluded from this observation.
• At the equivalent of 3rd/4th level of role development relocate to sponsoring settlement.
• Company begins developing agreements with other companies/settlement for crafting services. - Alchemists, Sawers, and other crafters using plant based resources are welcome to join the Nettles. While using other companies/settlements to provide these services, having them “in-house” is an attractive idea.
• Company takes at least one tower for support of sponsoring settlement. - I feel this is needed to have a better claim to settlement resources. Also, learning to defend a tower will be important at some point if the company chooses to build towers or forts of their own after the Great Catastrophe.
• Start developing detailed data on surrounding hexes for gathering/clearing of escalations. - This data will be used for identifying locations where escalations typically appear to support systematic escalation clearing patrols; becoming familiar with the surrounding terrain for defensive purposes; and identifying possible basecamp and PoI locations, if not for the company, then to have information to attack basecamps and PoI deployed by rivals in territory we are trying to control.

• When they become functional, begin using basecamps to support gathering and escalation clearing activities. - Practicing with basecamps locally will instruct us on how to best use them in long distance gathering expeditions. I have already purchased one, but it appears that I can purchase only one.
• Begin developing and using tactics to deal with increased monster activity as a result of the presence of a basecamp or developing “gusher” nodes. - Doing this close to the sponsoring settlement will make reinforcements or retreat easier to achieve.
• Develop agreements for long distance transportation of gathered resources temporarily stored in basecamps. - Basecamps despawn after 5-days, destroying everything still within. Portage of collected resources and loot may need to be sent back to a settlement or small-holding not only before the end of the 5-day window, but hopefully more often for really successful expeditions.
• Conduct a long distance gathering expeditions to find rare or otherwise unattainable plant resources. - This can be done in conjunction with other companies who may focus on mining or dousing. This can also be cover for investigating areas near settlements/companies/factions hostile to our own.

• Choose an alignment for the Nettles. - The initial thinking is NG, however, this is subject to the will of the membership.
• Reorganize the Nettles to allow members to pursue alignment restricted roles. - This may have already become a necessity by this point due to increased membership.
• Assess settlement sponsorship in light of settlement alignment choice and will of the membership on future goals. - The alignment of the sponsoring settlement may make continuing to be sponsored by them impossible.
• Develop unit tactics (if they have been turned on by now) to support all ongoing activities.

• Depending on the will of the members, found a city.
• Monks!

[Sorry to be late with this. Sometimes the body betrays.}

As announced in this thread, here is where you can post you entry in the Round 1 of the Low Challenge.

The wining team of each round will have a feature in the Unofficial PFO Atlas named after their team. If the team is from a specific settlement, the feature will be close to that settlement.

The rules have been revised to read as follows:
1. Each team must be composed of characters built ONLY with the 1000 exp awarded at character creation.
2. Each team may be composed of any combination of character race or role, as long as each character meets the 1000 exp criteria.
3. Each team may be composed of more than the six characters that form a party, but there are point penalties for these additional characters.
[3a. A team must have at least 3 members.]
4. The score for an encounter will be marked as follows:

• +2 point for the level of each monster in the encounter based on the monster level from Dazyk’s PFO Quick Reference Monsters tab (just because it is convenient to use)
• +1 points for each monster in the encounter
• -10 point for each character re-spawn during the encounter
• -2 for each additional character that participates in the encounter outside first 6
• +2 points for each character less than six at the start of the encounter (i.e., +2 for a party of 5, +4 for a party of 4, etc.) provided that no additional players participate after the beginning of combat
• -20 if the escolation regenerates before being killed

When posting to be eligible for the win, please post links to screen shots before and after. Please proved the Team Name; team member names with their race and role; a list of monsters killed, re-spawns, party number bonuses, and penalties for escalation regeneration.

The monster names will very per encounter, make your best guess.

Deadline for Round 1 entries will be advanced to Monday, December 22, 2014, at 11:00 pm EST.

Good luck.

This is not a challenge about power. This is a challenge about skill.

Challenge: Using a party of only 1st rank characters, built only with the 1000 experience point at character creation, how strong a monster party can you take out without losing anyone?

Can the team from Aragon do better than the team from Phaeros? Can the dwarves of Forgeholm do better than the elves of RiverBank? Who will be the best over everyone else?

Purpose: A lot of Alpha has seen powerful parties/groups with quality gear bulling through monster encounters. In the first week of EE there will be no such gear. The purpose of this challenge is to see just how strong a monster encounter a low level party can take on successfully to gain higher value loot before the crafting economy gets into full swing. By successfully, I mean with as few characters having to re-spawn as possible. Time is important when taking on an escalation or an escalation quest. Having to wait for party members to re-spawn and re-join the party takes away from that time. A smart party can progress a little slower using tactics rather than brute strength, and still be faster that the brute strength party in collecting loot. Gaining loot faster will mean an economic advantage for new characters that will make them valuable to settlements.

Reward: At the end of each week up until the start of EE, the team with the highest score (as defined below) will have a topographic feature in the Unofficial PFO Atlas named after that team.

Timeframe: The challenge will be conducted each week until the start of EE. The first challenge period will end at 11:00 pm Sunday, December 21, 2014.

To Enter the Challenge: Post to this thread the name of your team and who you represent to indicate if you want to accept this challenge. A separate thread will be available each Friday for you to post your encounter scores for that week’s Sunday deadline.

Challenge Rules:
1. Each team must be composed of characters built ONLY with the 1000 exp awarded at character creation.
2. Each team may be composed of any combination of character race or role, as long as each character meets the 1000 exp criteria.
3. Each team may be composed of more than the six characters that form a party, but there are point penalties for these additional characters.
4. The score for an encounter will be marked as follows:

• +2 point for the level of each monster in the encounter based on the monster level from Dazyk’s PFO Quick Reference Monsters tab (just because it is convenient to use)
• +1 points for each monster in the encounter
• -5 point for each character re-spawn during the encounter
• -2 for each additional character that participates in the encounter outside first 6
• +5 points for each character less than six at the start of the encounter (i.e., +5 for a party of 5, +10 for a party of 4, etc.) provided that no additional players participate after the beginning of combat

• Team name
• List each character by name, race, and role that participate in the encounter
• List the number, type and level of each monster in the encounter
• List the number of times characters had to re-spawn before the end of the encounter

Examples:

• Party of 4 vs encounter of 5 skeletons with 2 character re-spawns = 15 [+10 for number in party, +5 for number of monsters, +10 for total monster levels (2*1), -10 for re-spawns]
• Party of 6 vs encounter of 1 Ogre and 2 goblin bombers with no re-spawns = 21 [+0 for number in party, +3 for number of monsters, +18 for total monster level (5*2 for ogre, 2*2 for each bomber)]
• Party of 8 vs encounter of 3 adventurer skeletons with 4 character re-spawns = 15 [-4 for number in party, +3 for number of monsters, +36 for total monster level (6*2 each), -20 for re-spawns]

• Before you start your encounter, it would be good to do some spying on the area to determine which encounter could give you the highest score if successfully completed. That makes it easier to record monster type and number.
• This challenge assumes that you will be honest. You could lie, but you never know when you might be observed by members of a competing team who will rat you out.
• Any yahoo can cut down a tree with an ax. Can you do it with a knife?

I found one in hex -01.02 (Northern Thorncrags, just above the passin that run of mountains leading north to Thornkeep). Coordinates of door 1.09S, 0.64W - at the crossroads

[EDIT} Watch out for the pit just north of the crossroads on the left (west)

Placeholder for the announcement of a new, web-based Unofficial PFO EE Atlas which will have multiple data layers and clickable hexes to display information. Should be live by Thursday, November 20, 2014.

Until the Gobbocast crew can get the episodes up on the site, I thought that I would give the links now.
Episode 19: The Wild Ones (Video)
Episode 19: The Wild Ones (Audio Only)
This episode begins with Erik Mona and James Bormahn of Piazo Publishing interview recorder 2014/08/30 after their DragonCon 2014 session "Pathfinder Video Games". The interview is short but it is followed by the full recording of their session. The background noise is intense, but a good test for off-site (i.e., not at home on my desktop) recording. As I found out near the end of the session the session name is not a mistake.

Episode 20: Blind Faith (Audio Only)
This interview was recorded 2014/09/03 with Lee Hammock (right before the scheduling meeting that I think generated the One Does Not Simply WALK Into Early Enrollment blog post). I apparently had not recovered from DragonCon as yet and as a result the video did not get recorded, but is still a good interview. (I must be some bad image karma with Lee as this is the second time I have failed to get him on camera.)

I have made a version of my Land Rush Map for the War of Towers. It will be updated as the war evolves, but I thought you would like a map to use for planning. Settlements are not labeled.

Unofficial PFO War of Towers Map

I used the blog posted land rush image to make a reduced area Unofficial PFO Land Rush Map focused solely on the Land Rush. It shows the relabeled settlement hexes and the settlements already established from Phase 1.

This thread is for player discussion on what to do. I will post the actual game rounds/turns/hours/days in the Gameplay Thread.

This thread is where the players can discuss actions without having to clutter the game play thread. I will try and use that for game rounds/turns/hours/days.

Harad Navar Play by Post for the PFO Talking Head Tavern RP Thread based on the statuette mystery The One is in the Water.

In the video link provided by Ryan on the Goblinworks Facebook page where he says: "You can see my presentation at GamesBeat 2013 at 03:23:00 on this video feed:"; if you look at the last scene showing fighters in a group on a hill (at 3:27:22) there is a figure on the left with what looks like an unarmed strike stance. He has what looks like a hand wrap on his right hand and nothing in his left. This gives me great hope for building a reasonable pseudo-monk in EE as there appears to be unarmed strike graphics at Milestone 3. I await with anticipation and salivation.

After I read Hardin Steel's post, I began thinking about the physical landscape of PFO and its relationship to physical structures that can be built into that landscaspe. From various sources:
1) In the video fly-through it appears that there will be physically identifiable locations (footprints) for settlements (see just after 0:42) in the PFO landscape. Granted they may not be a easily recognized as in the video as the video elevation may be exaggerated.
2) We have been told that there will be PoI hexes where stand-alone structures can be built, in particular watchtowers, inns, and feudal manors. We know that PoI hexes will be different from settlement hexes.
3) We know that we can create hideouts in hexes which require special skills to detect.

This brings me to the following questions:
1) Will hideouts have a physical footprint in the landscape? If you can't see them, it seems logical that you can't see their footprint (if they have one). If they have a footprint, will this mean that there will only be one hideout per hex as there (apparently) will be only one PoI structure in a hex? Will an existing hideout be able to detect if another hideout (or any other structure for that matter) is being constructed within the hideout's hex (if building one is allowed)? Will you only be able to build hideouts in PoI hexes?
2) Will PoI structure footprints be fixed in the landscape as settlement footprints appear to be? Will a hex become a PoI hex if a structure is built in it, or can a structure be built in a hex only because it is a PoI hex?
3) Will resource nodes have a fixed footprint in the landscape? Or will only those nodes where a harvesting camp can be built have a footprint? If you can build a harvesting camp without having to have a predefined footprint in the landscape, will we be able to build other structures where there is no footprint? Will there be only one harvesting camp per hex, i.e., can you only build harvesting camps in a PoI hex?

With the introduction of a new PoI structure, the Feudal Manor, I think it's time to ask
What do you think would be the use of a manor and it's control of a hex?
(Thanks Areks and Krow!)

1) Since control of territory is the founding motivation of large scale player interaction, I think we can agree that controlling a PoI Hex has great advantages.
2) Historically, a feudal manor was a self sustaining entity and many of which were owned by religious and monastic orders. Many were owned directly by the King. They provided the kingdom with many services, not just military support.
3) In PFO I cam see a feudal manor being the center for a trade organization (or a bandit king), specialist trades (like building siege engines), a source of religious authority (soul bind points), and (of course) Monasteries.
4) That being said, what are the rules for defending the manor after it's built? Can it have NPC guards and a PvP Window? Can it have enhanced defenses to use against character attack (assuming that, like watchtowers, manors can be destroyed by character attack) just as you can buy enhancements for hideouts and settlement buildings?
5) Companies, as centers of Influence can use that as a political tool to wield power. Settlements can manage and enhance Development Indexes as a way to wield power. What can a manor wield as a tool of power?
6) What will be that special something that would distinguish having a manor over having a hideout, an Inn, a watchtower, or a large building in a settlement?

What do you think?

Watchtowers and Hideouts
Inspired by the A Wizards Tower thread and some conversations on the PFOfan TS chat I would like to start a discussion about the Watchtower and the Hideout. I think that the watchtower and the hideout may be the only structures availably to us to build at the start of EE. It also seems that both of these have a large number of things in common. These similarities have been stated in Player-Created Buildings and Structures (if the thinking has not changed) and I have grouped these similarities below:

1) Perception and Detection
Hideouts have a "threat radius" that determines how they interact with their surroundings: when a character using fast travel enters the threat radius of a hideout, the characters in the hideout can trigger an ambush—the targets drop out of fast travel in the vicinity of the hideout, and the bandits may be able to overtake them and engage them in melee combat before they can exit the area and re-enter fast travel.
Watchtowers have a "detection radius" that determines when and if the occupants are alerted to the presence of potentially hostile forces in the hex. When a character enters the detection radius of the watchtower, there's a chance that the character's location will be revealed to the watchtower's occupants, who can in turn pass that information on to others. Avoiding such detection requires specialized character abilities.

2) Storage and Safe Log-out
Hideouts have limited storage, and they allow characters to be logged out of the game safely.
Watchtowers have storage and they allow characters to be logged out of the game safely.

3) Advancement
Advancing a hideout can make it harder to locate, increase its local storage, increase its threat radius, and allow the hideout's occupants to determine the nature of passing characters and their gear before triggering an ambush.
Advancing a watchtower can improve its structural integrity, increase its local storage, and increase its detection radius.

4) Vulnerability
Hideouts can be destroyed by individuals.
Watchtowers can be destroyed by individuals.

That being said I propose the following topics for discussion and invite all comment (especially devs if they are able):

1) From Over the Hill and Far Away "watchtowers allow members of the settlement to see further into neighboring hexes and boosts settlement security." (In the sense that the watchtower controls the hex next to the settlement.) However, would not a settlement gain the same advantage if, instead of a watchtower, they had a hideout?

2) Would the increased detection radius of an advanced watchtower allow those that control the watchtower to see into an adjacent hex?
2a) Would the increased detection radius of an advanced hideout allow those that control the hideout to see into an adjacent hex?

3) I can see the necessity of the restriction of one free standing structure per Point of Interest in a Wilderness Hex. However, I do think that it would be interesting if a venture company actually built a watchtower in a hex that already had a hideout. After all, if you tried to build in a wilderness hex and couldn't, wouldn't that be a dead giveaway that there was a hideout in the area? This would generate a very interesting conflict (if the bandits didn't attack the construction site enough to prevent the construction of the watchtower).

4) If there was a hex between a watchtower and a hideout, and then both were advanced to increase their detection radius, we might have an interesting scenario where potential enemies can spy on one another from a distance. Would the increased detection radius of each allow spying into a separating hex, in a sense interfering with either group's ability to control the separating hex?

5) If there were an advanced watchtower and an advanced hideout in adjacent hexes, and the detection radius of each overlapped, would these controlling the watchtower have an enhanced advantage over those controlling the hideout? I can see a case where the watchtower could position patrols in the hideout hex and when the bandits came out to attack, direct the patrol to intervene. This would greatly increase the risk to the bandits to complete their attack and escape by shortening the window between the attack and arrival of reinforcements.

As always I invite your comment and discussion.

"The world is a vampire, sent to drain
Secret destroyers, hold you up to the flames
And what do I get, for my pain?
Betrayed desires, and a piece of the game....
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Then someone will say what is lost can never be saved
Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage."
-"Bullet With Butterfly Wings", by Smashing Pumpkins

Based on the new dev blog and a conversation with Hobs, I wanted to start a new thread instead of resurrecting an old thread.

As a preface we know:
1) From (I believe) Gobocast #9 with the devs, it appears that there is a possibility for events in PFO to become reflected back into Pathfinder books and arcs.
2) From the dev blog what we do on these threads is actually Crowdforging.
3) From the dev blog, "The hexes will be laid out in an east-west configuration. When you reach the edge of the area, you'll find an invisible wall that limits further travel."
4) From the dev blog, "In addition, there will be additional quests and locations available only to the Twice-Marked (and those in their parties). Some of this special content is likely to include the earliest quests that begin to reveal new lore about the Crusader Road region."
5) We already have a local in Golarion where one of the outer planes has broken through to the material, the Worldwound.

"Wall? What wall?"
One option in role playing the reality of being locked into (for all intent and purpose) is a laboratory experiment, a maze, is to completely ignore the existence of the "invisible wall" and its restriction on travel. You can experience the affects of this wall in the Environmental Experience. Some could say that we should RP assuming that it is a natural part of life and we can ignore its impact on game play. [I must admit I hope we can see across the invisible wall. I would love to see the Emerald Spire in the distance but not be able to reach it.]

I think that there is another option. What if the closed-ness of the EE area became a part of our lore for the start of the game? What if we, instead of ignoring the wall, make the wall an integral part of why our characters are in the River Kingdoms? We could, for example, use the early quests with Twice-marked characters to try and discover why we are trapped in this region.

Another option is that there are gods other than Pharasma who have shut us in this area. What if our characters were in this area to become mystic warriors for a mighty assault on the demons from the Worldwound? This is the Crusader Road. This is a jumping-off-point for battling the evil chaos eruption out of the Worldwound. It could be possible that Asmodious (as LE) is taking a personal interest in combating the Worldwound (which is CE) by working in conjunction with Pharasma to create this training ground. And it seems logical that in the future, if there were to be gates opening to other areas of Golarion, that the Worldwound would be an ideal place for one of those gates to take us.

I think that Crowdforging is not just for game rules and mechanics. I think it can also help craft the lore of our new world.

Thoughts?

This game is a new thing even if it has its roots in Pathfinder TT and is trying to remain true to those roots. In the old table top days, multipurpose characters always seemed to be at a disadvantage in many aspects compared to those who were single purpose. But here in PFO we are all in a sense multipurpose. I think that we have the opportunity to do some original thinking in creating a PFO character.

It is my impression that we seem to have a blind spot around the term "class". We seem to be mired in the idea that character class drives all our in-game choices. I propose that we refocus our thinking on characters having a personal purpose that drives our in-game choices.

We know a few things so far (and subject to change) about how characters can be built in PFO.
1) We know that there will be four classic archetypes in the beginning of early enrollment (namely fighter, wizard, cleric, and rouge) each with its own specific feats and skill trees.
2) We know that if you build a character with only feats and skills from a particular archetype you gain bonus effectiveness in those feats/skills.
3) We know that there are "general" feats and skill trees which can be used by all characters regardless of archetype.
4) We know that there will be essentially a "crafter" archetype with its own feats and skill trees.
5) We know that as time goes on toward open enrollment that new archetypes with their own feats and skill trees will be added to PFO.

What if we began to think of our characters as having a purpose rather than a class? What if we thought of our characters as who they want to be rather than what they want to do? By that I mean looking at our characters as having a goal, and to achieve that goal they have to become proficient in specific feats and skills. It may be that to achieve their personal goals they will focus on the feats and skills of a particular archetype. It can also mean that they will need a variety of feats and skills from a number of archetypes to realize their goal, their purpose, their reason for being alive and keeping alive.

In many ways this way of thinking could be seen as focusing on purposes aligned with labels like "Enforcer", "Champion", "Outlaw", Trader", or "Assassin". As an example, what if your character's purpose was to bring law and order to the wilderness? I believe that you would be looking for feats and skills that aid you in achieving that goal. If your personal preference as a player is that you like to play spell casters you might build a character with both fighter and wizard skills (can you say magus?). I think that you might choose a lawful alignment and reinforce that with the use of the Enforcer Long Term PVP Flag. This has nothing to do with "class".

By looking at our characters as having purpose I think we can achieve some new ways to be immersed in PFO without the obfuscation of the idea of class.
[EDIT] Not everyone can play their favorite class at the start of EE, but EVERYONE can play a purpose.

Thoughts?

In thinking about how to make the monk archetype more desirable, I had some thoughts about ki. What if ki could be transmittable into other energy types, but possibly with a reduced damage, using a ki enhanced monk weapon? Having an energy attack combined with an unarmed strike would make the monk more of a challenge to a character in heavy armor. This would add the flavor of a monk of the four winds within the existing game mechanics.

A monk could also combine ki with crafting to make enhanced items. A monk with ranks in blacksmithing could craft ki focus items/weapons with 6 slots (much like a wizard's spell book) for ki feats/techniques/energy attacks. I know that monks will have to have a material focus to use ki just as a fighter will need a physical weapon. This could fit the bill nicely.

A monk with ranks in herbalist could convert ki into healing or suppression of long term injuries like those from critical hits.

Mutable ki could be combined with with combat maneuvers to damage as well as trip/bull rush/throw.

Thoughts?

Now that we have some WIP images of settlements and structures I want to ask about Hideouts.
We can see in the settlement shown in Til I Reach the Highest Ground that tents are possible as a beginning structure (see Lisa Stephens post).

Could a Hideout start as a tent in the woods? Could it be escalated to a structure, even a fort, later? We do have an example of a monster tent. Could we get better tents, larger and with camouflage to make then harder to spot?

Could it be a simple cave that can be expanded (excavated) later? Could we construct multiple exits? Could we install traps for the trespasser?

Could we build camouflaged watchtowers in the Hideout hex to better look for targets/Enforcers?

How would you like to see Hideouts starting and how would their escalation path look?

Now that people are fired up about playing a wizard (and hopefully GW will be just as brilliant with clerics, sorcerers and druids) I would like to discuss how to make the monk archetype just as fabulous.

from Your Pathfinder Online Character
"Monks—masters of ki power. These warrior-artists search out methods of battle beyond swords and shields, finding weapons within themselves just as capable of crippling or killing as any blade."

I know that this description of the monk may change; the blog reference is over a year old. However, one of the Daily Deals was the Staff of Circles. Unless they change this completely GW has introduced with this item the idea of force-based damage. I think the monk could be an excellent vehicle for expanding that concept into an archetype.

What if there were two aspects of ki. The first would be personal buffs: strength, enhanced movement speed, evasion, improved armor-like abilities (think Brass Body from "The Man with the Iron Fists", even if it was bad), moving (tumbling) past an opponent without threat of attack, passing without trace, maybe even enlarge and reduce person effects. These would be internal aspects.

The second aspect would be external. This is where the "crippling" comes in. One of the oldest myths about martial arts is using ki to affect things at a distance. At lower levels, exerting ki externally would be adding more damage to unarmed attacks. At higher levels of skill the monk could strike through distance, possibly execute combat maneuvers like ki throw, trip, bull rush without having to touch their opponent. The monk could use ki to accelerate thrown weapons for more affect. They could do a burst of ki force to drive a mob back.

These types of abilities would have to be balanced with the need for consumables. Also, there may need to be a weakness associated with each ki ability. For example, using ki to harden the body for improve damage resistance may reduce speed. Executing a throw at a distance may keep the monk rooted to the ground for a small time making it difficult to move to attack an opponent while they are prone.

Thoughts?

I have created an Unofficial Pathfinder Online Map (150 dpi) using Rich Baker's sketch from the GW blog, and what we know so far from the thread comments. I also have a 300 dpi version (which is too large for Google Drive to have a thumbnail).
Assumptions in making the map
1) I used the map scale from the Thorenkeep map.
2) The actual size of the subhexes is subject to change. The map subhex size is estimated from the larger hexes shown on Rich's sketch, subdividing by 7. See Example
3) Road locations were adjusted to run through subhexes rather then along an edge between subhexes.
4) The roads accented on the Thornkeep map were shown as patrolled NPC hexes. See NPC Hex under Types of Hexes in Over the Hill and Far Away
5) Settlement locations were adjusted from the Thornkeep map to place them in the center of a subhex.
6) The two fort settlements were given a 6 hex surround of patrolled hexes (see NPC Hex reference above), but the smaller settlements were not. I do not know how much each settlement would actually control, just my best guess. Thornkeep may actually have more hexes like the forts settlements.
7) The cited Thornkeep monster encounter areas were shown as monster hexes. They may or may not actually be permanent monster hexes.
8) Distribution and density of trees in the Echo Woods is my imagination and should not be considered as linked to any dev comments.

This map was created in Adobe Illustrator and uses map symbols from the ProFantasy Campaign Cartographer software (for which I have a license).

I plan on revising the map as more information is known. Eventually I hope to use this to catalog player exploration and discoveries.

As always your suggestions, comments, and observations are welcome.

It has been said by Stephen Cheney that the disarm combat maneuver has not been designed yet, but will probably function differently than in the PnP game. He also said that monks will have to "have various gear dependencies that are comparable to armor and weapon-dependent roles". In other posts IIRC weapons and armor will require consumables to maintain their qualities at their peak. I would like to discuss how consumables might be used in the design of combat maneuvers in PFO.

Disarm in particular seems most suited for the consumable mechanic. If it is designed as a temporary Weapon Lock, a weighted cord could easily be the consumable used in executing the Weapon Lock maneuver. That cord (if successful) would be destroyed when the weapon locked character breaks the lock. The maneuver could have its own skill tree with improving levels, such as a higher success rate or a longer lock, to access an Improved Weapon Lock feat.

Grapple could also have a similar consumable. Something like a hand-held bolas (to preserve the attacker-opponent mutual grappled condition from PnP) could be used to deny a character access to material spell components or a debuff using somatic spell components as well as dexterity debuff, attack debuff, and movement restriction. Again the bolas would be damaged or destroyed when breaking the grapple. Grapple would have a similar skill tree to improve success or access Improved Grapple.

Trip might be a little tricky as weapons can be used in Trip maneuvers. There could certainly be consumables required to maintain a weapon's trip function. However, an unarmed trip might be another matter. Per Stephen monks will most likely have to "have various gear dependencies that are comparable to armor and weapon-dependent roles" so there would have to be a relevant consumable for unarmed trip. An unarmed trip may not be allowed if it gives "an effectiveness bonus while naked over other roles".

Bull Rush and Overrun would be dependent on what collision mechanic are employed.

Sunder may not be allowed without a weapon or tool designed to the task.

Thoughts?

What is Pharasma up to? With characters coming back from the dead, in affect denying souls to the other gods, we could be talking millions of opportunities for souls to move on rather than being recycled. Rovagug may not care but Asmodeus might be really pissed. I was ruminating on in-game reasons for this and I want to see if any of these make sense.

1) The rest of the gods are in on this: When souls pass through the Boneyard they are momentarily closser to the gods than when in mortal form. This could be an excellent time for the gods to speak to mortals if the gods needed something. After all, what is a Crusader Road with out a crusade. Rarely and randomly characters could be given a vision of something as yet undiscovered by players, like a distant hex controlled by a powerful lich or monster. This event would be so rare that the PC might not believe that it occured. This would be a great way for GW to input information into the game in context with the game.

2) Giving griefers an option: I know that this sounds really Sarenrae, but if GW decides they have a griefer problem the player could be offered an option to their character's re-spawning normally. They could come back permanently as a monster in a distant hex. The griefer could then be as evil as they want whenever they want within the context of the game. Those persons can band together to raid "civilized" areas and kill to their hearts content. There could be enough players involved to build a monster settlement far enough away as to require a really major effort to attack, but still be a base for the transformed character to play the game. Heck, I think some griefers would pay extra to be able to do that.

What are your thoughts about an in-game context for Pharasma's behavior.
And, yes, "It's magic" is a valid reason, but not a very thematically satisfying one.

In POL there will not be classes but archetypes. To me this means that we will be able to build multivariate characters from skills of many of the traditional Pathfinder classes (alignment permitting). I have in mind a monk who also has some rouge archetype options, namely "sneak attack", but I have a problem with that label. I would prefer that skill be reclassified as "precision damage". It can have all the same restrictions, like only when flatfooted, but I thing precision damage is more alignment neutral.

For characters who want to focus on feats and skills that are based more on dexterity than strength, I think precision damage is a better fit.

If there have already been threads on this, please quote them. But time has passed and revisiting this discussion in light of what we know now may not be a bad idea.

Thoughts?

From another thread:

What we may be doing here is theorizing about how laws in-game would work without experimental data to assess the validity or falsehood of the theory. Without having either the capability to experiment, or having a completed product to make real observations, we aren't theorizing at all, we are guessing. We can make basic a few basic hypothesizes based on the developers statements, but even the developers themselves are very open about the fact that everything they say, could be completely subject to change before the product is completed.

IIRC, there will be a "combat experience" with which we can play test combat mechanics at some stage of its development. When this is done I would like to see something more than a goblin and a fighter and two buttons. I think we need to see something where we can adjust the feats/skills of two combatants (two fighters would be good) and compare the results of combat.

As a simple example for discussion, let us say that the combat experience will have two fighters, one driven by a simple AI, another by a player. Further, lets assume that there are 2 defense skills/feats, parry and block, and two offence feats/skills, thrust and slash.

If the two fighters have 1 rank in each offence and defense feat/skill there will be little data to be extracted from the experience. However, if we can adjust the fighters ranks, we can gain some valuable information upon which to base our opinions for the devs.

Fighter A: block 3, parry 1, thrust 1, slash 1
Fighter B: block 1, parry 1, thrust 3, slash 1
Being able to run this experience over and over with changes in ranks will provide sufficient "experimental data" so we can postulate (or possibly pontificate) "theories" about the proposed combat "laws" and how they make affect game experience.

Thoughts?

As they say, your character is the end game.

I will continue to be building a lot of background for my main character and right now I am planning to use this name for that character. There are pros and cons to this strategy but I really want a character that will be familiar to both me and other EE players when we start.

There are pros and cons to this idea. What are you thinking of doing? Will you be naming a character in PFO with you messageboard name?

The thread on SAD is dealing with the pros/cons of the concept. Granted it is a long way from testing out combat and knowing the actual cost/risk of harvesting, but I would like the opinion from those (I almost used y'all) that have much more MMO experience than I on what would be some possible make-ups of both a bandit group for attacking caravans and a guard group that was hired to defend the caravan?

It seems to me that a small company may want to hire on as a caravan guard disguised as traders just so the merchant can decline the SAD request with a reasonable chance of coming out on top. Presuming no massive one-sided discrepancy in numbers when it comes to toe-to-toe time:

• How would you structure a bandit group to win when SAD is declined?
• Likewise, how would you structure a guard company to win?
• What tactics would be best for either group?
• What tactics would you avoid?

What do you think?

I would like to see small scale environmental constructs as an option for hideouts. Things like camouflaged punji stick pits and dead-fall traps. Leading a party into an ambush would be so much more fun if they fell into a trapped pit before the ambush. The traps and pits may not have a long persistence time if not attended, but I could live with that.

Taverns appear to be ideal neutral ground between settlements.
If that were so I would like to see taverns offer a number of services:

• a method for posting public announcements, such as "Guards Wanted" and "Crafter needs X"
  
• private dinning that acts as secure small chat rooms for plotting the next business venture, or the next raid
  
• resting places while off line (for a price), higher security means higher price
  
• associated small vendors for minor items (Meat Pies! Meat Pies!)
  

What would you like to see?

I know that I want my prime character to be a lawful good monk archetype, but I'm undecided about what to make my Destiny's Twin character. If the two can train simultaneously, can they do so with different skill tracts? If so I may go one way, but if there is an advantage to keep the same skill sets for the twin, I'll do that. I am curious what others have thought about for their twin.

Monsters are different
Monsters and NPCs are constructs of the game. Because of this, if they are evil, they are compelled to do evil things. I think that it can be argued that monsters are killed more for the evil acts they do rather than for being evil because for them being evil and doing evil is not separable. Killing them for doing evil is a good act.

Neutral Evil, not Neutral Stupid
Evil player characters are not game generated monsters and do not have to do evil actions if that is not to their advantage. If they do evil acts and get caught, then its more likely that they may be too stupid to survive in the game rather than simply being "evil". Example: A NE character goes to a tavern near a paladin controlled hex to conduct business. Being caught doing evil acts will bring the notice (and smiting) of the paladins. That would not be good for the character's business interests. I think it is entirely possible to be of an evil alignment and not do overtly evil acts. Granted that may push the character's alignment (through game mechanics) away from evil, but that is not the point. Doing evil and not getting caught seems a perfectly valid role playing strategy.

It is known that they are "X" and thus must die.
I have been really disturbed by some the arguments being given against game mechanics that (in their way of thinking) prevents paladins from attacking and killing evil creatures in the name of "protecting the innocent". Last night while listening to a podcast I finally understand what it is that is causing me a problem. Killing because someone is "X", that they deserve to be killed because they are "X", is the same rotational used to justify actions in the Serbo-Croatian war, the killing fields of Cambodia, the slaughter in Rwanda, and in a thousand other places in present day and in history. It is the excuse to commit genocide. In the real world that is an evil act. I think that it should also be an evil act in the game.

Nowhere in the threads (and I admit I may have missed it) have I found a proposal to actively change the alignment of those opposed against you. The only option I seem to hear is "Kill them all!" If we are not going to try to change what is in a character's heart, we can not take actions solely based on what is in their hearts. We treat monsters better than that because we kill them more for what they do rather than for what they are.

Killing in the name of good without proof of guilt is not lawful
I think that it is completely reasonable that a paladin killing a character just because they are evil is in itself an evil act. Guarding trade caravans and harvesting expeditions from attack is different from killing characters that "might" attack the innocent.

I will try and not let my character do actions that might make it loose its LG alignment, but if there was a company whose core belief was to kill evil characters because they "might" do evil acts, or kill good characters because they "might" oppose evil, I would become a resistance force of one (if that was my character's only option) to oppose that group. Not being able to permanently die makes it possible for a single candle to stand against the dark.

I've been going over in my mind the information we have on the hex spawning escalation. I particular, how (if left unchecked) roving bands of monsters grow into larger groups. If left unchecked these groups could take over a hex. If they still remained unchecked they would start spawning small groups into the neighboring hexes.

As we get farther afield with our exploration in Early Enrollment I would like to see us run across that exact situation. First encountering smaller groups, then larger, then finding the monster controlled hex. As I have mentioned in other threads, if the monster group controlling the hex were lawful, they may have advanced enough to have unit combat. Going up against them would give us practice in unit combat before we had to start building our own units for settlement and nation war.

What would you like to see as the spawned encounters in the wild?

The GW blogs say:
"Monks—masters of ki power. These warrior-artists search out methods of battle beyond swords and shields, finding weapons within themselves just as capable of crippling or killing as any blade."

Since PFO is not a one-to-one mapping of Pathfinder PnP, I am unclear about the specifics of ki power.

I would like ki to be able to do the following:

• Enhance Combat Maneuvers add to the effectiveness of bull rush, sunder, trip, and disarm, possibly being able to execute these maneuvers at a distance, especially trip
  
• Temporary Physical Enhancement being able to do short term physical enhancement effects similar to bull's strength and cat's grace
  
• Boost Weapon Effects adding bull rush, trip, sunder, and disarm to weapons used, or enhancing properties for weapons with those descriptors
  
• Add Damage to Combat Maneuvers add falling damage to ki throw (massive body slam)

I'm not sure when it will be feasible to actually walk around in settlements, but after the war mechanics are working it should not be much of a stretch to be able to do that. What kind of buildings would you like to see in PC settlements? Or in NPC settlements for that matter.

I would like to see a specialty food shop called Creature Meats. It could have a really interesting Door.

Come to think of it, I would probably pay RL skymetal for a 3D artist to make a store front for my building, if GW would allow it to be part of the PFO world (with the model scrubbed of scripts, of course). If that were allowed there might be a good market for player architects (3D modelers) to be hired to build PC structures.

From what has been posted by the devs it appears that character actions will affect alignment by either reinforcing the character's current alignment, or moving it away on one (or both) of the alignment axis. I have a concern that a new player's concept of alignment may not be the concept the devs use to determine the alignment impact of actions.

I propose that instead of simply picking an alignment the player could have the option to fill out a survey of questions that describe how the player plans to play their character. Each question would describe an alignment impacting action or situation that the game can actually detect and quantify. The player could choose from several options of play for that action. At the end of the survey the character generator would evaluate the responses and say "Based on how you wish to play this character your alignment would be XX." The player could then either accept that alignment, go back to picking an alignment, or retake the survey to generate different answers and thus generate a different alignment. The survey would be accessible by the player as a reference when concerns arise about why their alignment changed, if they chose to use the survey.

The questions could be crowdforged and valuable in listing for the devs actions we feel have an impact on alignment that we want detectable by the game.

I know that for me taking this survey at character creation would help me to clarify and benchmark roll playing my alignment choice. It would also serve as a statement of how I intend to play, a contract if you will, to allow GW to assess my character's actions against my intentions if any question should arise regarding charges of non-social behavior.

What do you think?

“A bonfire keeps back the darkness in only one place, a thousand candles can keep back the darkness anywhere.”
- Kacan Moraphis, Chief Abbot, Monastery of the 36th Order, Katapesh

Chartered Company
Name: the Nettles
Ideology (taken from the Monastery of the 36th Order):

• There are two aspects to everything, the Internal and the External.
  
• All may be born to good or evil internally, but it is their external actions that make them Good or Evil.
  
• The 36th Order chooses Good as the Life Internal and Order as the Life External.
  
• Patience and serenity are the weapons to be used against the Evil Internal, the evil intent that lives inside the heart.
  
• Actions and example are the weapons to be used against the Evil External, the evil actions committed against the world by those of the Evil Internal.

• when a call for help is received two or three members go to investigate leaving the rest to continue gathering/exploring in the local area (this is to insure that if the call is a trap the remaining team can defend the expedition),
  
• if the scouts find a legitimate call for help has been sent they will call for backup while they begin engagement with the situation,
  
• a subset of the gathering/exploring party go to join the scouts in their efforts, still leaving some members to guard the gathering/exploring party property and hirelings,
  
• if necessary the Nettles will take the victims under their wing until they can be returned to the settlement.

• to act as a secure base for the rest and training of Nettles members,
  
• to be a known local for anyone in need to come for help and guidance,
  
• to be the store for selling herbs and materials gathered,
  
• to be a known location where clients may hire the Nettles for specific herbal related tasks
  
• as a place for crafting objects needed in their stand against the Evil External.

Harad Navar, brother, Monastery of the 36th Order

I've searched the threads and while I see many comments on how difficult it will be to run (and stay) a lawful good character, I haven’t seen a thread on how to play lawful good successfully based on what we know now about Pathfinder Online. That is what I’d like to see discussed here. To keep the thread a little more focused I would like to see comments based on the following premise:

“The Nettles are a small chartered group of lawful good monks (supported by a few lawful good clerics, fighters, and magic users) who earn a living as gatherers of herbal resources for medicines, potions, and condiments. They also are always on the lookout for new ingredients for their side business of brewing ale and beer. [Blue Monk Ale is in demand all along the Crusader Road, but they are always looking for the next great brew.] They have made it widely known to members of the PC settlement where they are based that they will answer any call for help in the wild around and within the settlement’s territory.” (This presumes that there will be a mechanism for calling for help in PC territories, possible as a corollary to alerting wardens in NPC territories.)

Scenario A: Can the Nettles be successful (that is, continue to grow as a group and as individuals and stay lawful good) if they were aligned with (and based in) a lawful neutral PC settlement? What would they have to do to maintain their lawful good alignment in this case?

Scenario B: A group of 4 Nettles (let’s say 3 monks and a cleric) hear a call for help in the wild just outside the territory controlled by the PC settlement. They rush to the scene and find 2 groups of PCs engaged in combat. Each group has 4 PCs each. Among the following options how would they conduct themselves in each instance and not severely damage their lawful good alignment?

• try and stop the fight to determine who is the aggressor and who called for help (which might be the same group) [this would be a good argument for non-lethal combat];
• join one of the parties in fighting the other (assuming they can determine which side to support);
• fight both parties, or
• run away.

Scenario C: The Nettles have completed a contract to procure a number of poison substances for the manufacture of antidotes. They discover that the material is not being used as such. It could be that the poisons were stolen by thieves, or they discover that they have been duped in providing them to a client who plans to use them as poisons. What would be their possible courses of action and how would these actions help them maintain their lawful good alignment?

New player comes into an NPC settlement. One of the first things is to hit the local tavern. Who are the bards singing about?"

They aren't singing about the first player to build a tailor shop. They are singing about the first party to wrestle and hold a castle out of the wilderness. They are singing of the marvelous settlements forged from danger and reward in the wild. They are singing about the first war, why it stated, who was the greatest hero, who won.

Ask not of whom the bard sings for the bard sings of you. I think it would be a great for players (the beta players especially who are going to help forge this game into it's highest potential) to have the opportunity of having the bards in NPC settlements tell their story. Choosing whose story will be told could be by vote or by GW choice. In any event the opportunity to become an acknowledged legend to inspire (or caution) new players would be a great draw for more player interaction of the sort I think GW is looking for.

And the bards can sing of the great bandits and evil doers that new players should watch out for. They could even sing of the longest outstanding bounties. That would be a lot more fun that a posted list.

Here is a link to the Numbered Hex Map for Greenmarch.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2Aa8a3C59iYSUpMR2NqRi11d1U

I have created a re-start campaign from the thread Steve started. This should alloy me to provide reference documents eaiser.