Gary McBride's page

I would buy a Numeria book and a Numeria AP in a red hot second.

And I would hope at least one of the volumes would be entirely set withing a crashed starship. Two would be even better, but one is compulsory.

Now if you could FIX the starship and fly it around the solar system, that would be even better.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

I too have been lured into purchasing the collector's edition. Cancel my normal edition.

Thanks,
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Your alcohol policy at PaizoCon should be, if anyone invites you to a scotch tasting -- go.

Gary "If you met me and I don't have single malt, you met someone else" McBride

I usually GM, but right now I'm playing in Jade Regent with a LE human wizard and having a blast I might add. I am already well upon my way of corrupting Ameiko into the devil-empress I know she was born to be.

But as far as what I usually play, I'm not sure I have a usual.

My last PC was a pacifist cleric who went all the way to 8th level without ever owning a weapon or killing any living thing...well, except for some oozes. I lured them into an acid pit with summer sausage.

I played a crazy german gunner in a 7th Sea game that ran for years real time -- a big beefy madman/pirate named Kessler. He routinely talked to his pistols and named all the ship's cannons. When one of the cannons was destroyed in a ship's battle, he held a funeral for her. It began with the tearful lines, "When you meet some cannons, you know they are destined for glory. Brunhilda was such a cannon..."

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Ok, so with the new Pathfinder Battles case subscription...

I already had a case of Heroes and Monsters in my sidecart and ordered the Black dragon exclusive.

But now I see that there is a subscription.

What I want to end up with is the case subscription and only receiving one case and one black dragon.

Could you please make sure this happens.

Thank you,
Gary McBride

Than... *gurgle* *thud*

This will be the last time you will be troubled by Mr. McBride.

N.

Could you please remove the Ameiko Kaijitsu and Reiko, iconic ninja miniatures from my sidecart. I just notice that I preordered those two but also bought them at Gencon directly from reaper.

Thanks,
Gary McBride

Have enough people gushed about what a great time they had at Paizocon?

No?

Then here is one more. It was a splendid weekend. The two games I ran went well. The two games I played in were a blast. And the company was consistently great all weekend long.

I'll definitely be back (with Scotch)!

Gary "The Scot with the Scotch" McBride

Congrats to Paizo for this deal!

More miniatures are always a good thing. I look forward to the box which I will almost certainly pick up.

I don't mind characters but what I really want is monsters. Monsters, particularly ones that have never or only infrequently been done.

For example, a demons and devils box set that gave us both a few classic outsiders along side some new uniquely Pathfinder monstrousities would be a box set I'd likely buy more than one of.

Gary

I got in. Last year I came in second losing by two hit points if I recall.

This year there will be no survivors!

Gary McBride

Oh, Brains!

Had some last year delivered with poetry even. Very tasty. Yes, please!

Gary McBride

Title: Grimm: Bonegrinders and Beanstalks
System: Grimm
Short Description: Once upon a time there was a wondrous world of dark fairy tales and desperate children. Are you clever enough to find the magic gold and escape the sky? Or will your bones end up ground into some hungry giant’s bread?

Fee fie foe fum! I smell the blood of a little one...
Number of Players (Min/Max): 4/6
Pregens Provided (yes/no): yes
Maturity Rating (Everyone (6+)/Teen (13+)/Mature (18+)): Everyone (6+)

Title: PARANOIA: Cold Fun Cataclysm
System: Paranoia XP
Short Description: Can it be? Is a vile band of Commie Mutant Traitors sabotaging Alpha Complex’s supply of that frozen favorite -- Cold Fun?! They must be stopped, citizen, and you are just the clone for the job. Trust no one! Stay alert! Keep your laser handy!
Number of Players (Min/Max): 4/6
Pregens Provided (yes/no): yes
Maturity Rating (Everyone (6+)/Teen (13+)/Mature (18+)): Everyone (6+)

I will not be available before noon on Friday.

Gary McBride

Monsters I would like to see include:

Cerberus, the three-headed hound of greek mythology and his get
Typhon and Echidna

Robots -- I would love to see these. An entire line of robots (security, medical, war, death machine, recon, aquatic, etc.) would be great -- everything you need to trick out a crashed transdimensional starship.

We have only one directly Aztec mythological monster so far (the couatl) and its a good guy. Some others like the ahuizotl and the civatateo would be welcome.

Another orphaned monster, the rakshasa, also has some interesting cultural cousins -- the vetala and the pisacha.

More cryptids and prehistorics are always cool. In particular the megalania, dimetrodon, and the paraceratherium seem interesting and iconic.

Regardless, keep up the great work,
Gary

I also submit that those "spines" on its back are actually spurts and swipes of grease and slime. Smear a layer of lard or crisco over a rhino, sit on it, then jump off and note how the dismount leaves spiny looking smears and swaths of sticky sludge to give evidence to your recent positioning atop the lumbering beast.

(And yes, the shantak does indeed have a "slippery" ability, which IS supported by other passages in "Dream Quest".)

(AND yes, I guess that does confirm the fact that the art is of a shantak.)

I'll have to bow to your first hand knowledge of what a recently dismounted lard-smeared rhino would look like. Oh, if only I had the resources of a top-selling RPG manufacturer! :)

It still lacks a mane though.

Regardless, we can now logically deduce that the four are:

bunyip
wendigo
shantak
leviathan

Those all sound like very cool monsters to put in a bestiary.

Gary

If we statted up Lovecraftian monsters that were comfortable to touch, we'd be doing it wrong.

Ultimately, its just a piece of art. I get that.

But, dude, Randolph Carter flies upon a shantak in "Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath". Granted its summoned by Nyarlathotep and is a trick to take him to the throne of Azathoth, but still he rides it ... clings to it even. To quote the master:

And Randolph Carter, gasping and dizzy on his hideous shantak, shot screamingly into space toward the cold blue glare of boreal Vega; looking but once behind him at the clustered and chaotic turrets of the onyx nightmare wherein still glowed the lone lurid light of that window above the air and the clouds of earth’s dreamland. Great polypous horrors slid darkly past, and unseen bat-wings beat multitudinous around him, but still he clung to the unwholesome mane of that loathly and hippocephalic scaled bird.
-- H.P. Lovecraft "Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath"

Hideous? Loathly? Maned and hippocephalic? Yep, yep, and yep. But dear old HPL neglects to mention pointy spines on the shantak's back.

So I submit, you can cuddle up to your shantak. You just better do it quick before it deposits you at the sanity-shattering throne of big-daddy Azathoth.

Gary

According to Scott Purdy's DeviantArt page, that's exactly what it is.

A shantak? Really? With those back spines?

Shantaks are often used as steeds within the dreamlands. Its going to be a bumpy ride.

Gary

Oh ye of little faith. The aged beef was absolutely terrific. And even if I do get worms, they will be well worth it!

Jason

Properly and well-aged beef is one of life's sublime pleasures and never let anyone tell you otherwise.

As for the scotch, while I'd happily provide you with some, that will have to wait until Paizocon.

Oh, and congratulations on that book sales thing, Paizo. Couldn't happen to a nicer company.

Gary "The Guy with the Scotch" McBride

My guesses:

charybdis, since its making a whirlpool

wendigo

jersey devil

leviathan

Gary

The Grimm campaign...words fail me. Gary McBride is an amazingly skilled GM, whose talent for voices alone kept me on my toes. Jack was a very fun NPC, and really inspired me in my own Grimm campaign. My favourite moments were probably:

When the identical twins used their talents to trick Grandmother into seeing two where there was only one

When we unfastened the ogre's pants and sent him packing

The Magic Rock! That was definitely the best part

The final scene with Grandmother, where Gary asked us whether the ending would be a happy one or a less-than-happy one

All in all, excellent games. I look forward to next year!

Glad you enjoyed the game, KC. And thanks for the kind words. Yes, barring any disaster, Grimm will be returning next year.

Gary

23.5! 14 to go! [counting Prince now]

Sure. I'll try one. Add me to the list.

Gary

I did the math. It will cost me more to pay sales tax than to pay shipping by roughly a dollar. I suppose I do not want to pay for the priviledge of picking up my books.

Now if I could prove my non-Washington resident status (say with my current Oregon driver's license) and thus be exempted from paying sales taxes as detailed here then I would take you up on the offer.

Gary

I am glad there remains some love in the world for this very cool and unappreciated game.

Hopefully, I'll see you at the game.

Fire burn all bubbling hot
Grinder needs meat for Grinder’s pot
I’ve tried rabbit, hart and shrew
But whelps they make a finer stew

Gary

Two more proposed events.

Gary McBride

• Event Title: Grimm: Red Claws and Riding Hoods
• Description:Once upon a time there was a land where wonder and nightmare walked hand in hand. You are children trapped in the twisted fairy tale kingdom of the Grimlands. Will you be able to find your way home?
How long did you wander through the Great and Awful Forest before you found the friendly villagers of Chapencross? They took you in and gave you food and shelter. And all they ask in return is the simplest of errands -- take this basket of goodies to Grandmother’s house. What could be simpler?
• Slot: Flexible -- I will arrive Friday by 2 pm and leave Sunday by 4 pm; I am attending the banquet.
• Duration: 4 hours
• Min/Max Players: 4 – 6
• Event Category: RPG
• GM Name: Gary McBride
• Game/Rules/System: Grimm
• Materials Provided: Yes (Pregenerated characters and goodies provided)
• Game Rating: PG
• Experience Needed: None
• Prizes Awarded: N

• Event Title: PARANOIA: There are no robots in RIO Sector
• Description: Congratulations, citizen! Because of your superb service to Friend Computer you have been selected to receive a some-expenses paid vacation to beautiful relaxing RIO sector. There you will enjoy amenities usually not available to clones of your clearance. Rejoice in Friend Computer’s vast generosity! Rumors of packs of flesh-stripping robots terrorizing the island are treason. Above all, have fun and always remember -- there are no robots in RIO Sector.
• Slot: Flexible -- I will arrive Friday by 2 pm and leave Sunday by 4 pm; I am attending the banquet.
• Duration: 4 hours
• Min/Max Players: 4 – 6
• Event Category: RPG
• GM Name: Gary McBride
• Game/Rules/System: Paranoia XP
• Materials Provided: Yes (Pregenerated characters provided)
• Game Rating: PG
• Experience Needed: None
• Prizes Awarded: N

Catering to the groups who actually completed the entire Rise of the Runelords AP is probably not a great idea; that is a relatively tiny audience. Historically (and I'm pretty sure the Paizo guys have mentioned this before), long-term published campaigns see a lot of drop-off over the course of the campaign. Fewer people have played The Skinsaw Murders than have played Burnt Offerings, for instance, and fewer still have played The Hook Mountain Massacre. By the time you get all the way up to Spires of Xin-Shalast, only a fraction of the groups who started playing the AP are still taking it on.

Oh, and then of course you have to subtract from that group all of those people who aren't interested in high-level play, for whatever reason.

Starting this hypothetical AP from level 1 is the way to go.

With all due respect, this is a classic example of the false dilemma logical fallacy. You needn't cater only to those who have played "Rise" by making a high-level AP that is its potential sequel.

A high level AP could be written that could both stand alone (i.e. be a high level AP that cares not how you got there -- anyone heroic would be interested in stopping the machinations of the remaining Runelords) and yet still serve as a sequel for "Rise of the Runelords" if you wished to add that dimension.

I would also note that WotC does not believe that 1st to 30th level campaigns are anathema to sales. They have already released one full 1st to 30th level adventure path (the H1-3, P1-3, E1-3 series of adventures) and are about to conclude a second one in the pages of Dungeon (Scales of War). These megapaths seemed to have done, economically speaking, so disastrously that they are starting a third one next year (HS1, HS2, etc).

Is it wrong to hope that where 4th edition D&D will by 2011 likely have at least three completed megapaths, that Pathfinder might eventually have just one?

Gary

PS Just in case this isn't crystal, I mean no slight against 4th ed. Yay, 4th ed. Yay, Pathfinder. Boo, edition wars.

Even if Rise of the Runelords WERE in print, we'd probably want to start a sequel at 1st level, honestly.

I'm sure it will be fine. I'm even looking forward to it.

But there is at least one charter superscriber who wishes you would take a stab at an epic AP. It's just such a perfect setup. One runelord has fallen. The other six realize their vulnerability and unite to strike back.

'Return of the Runelords' does have a ring to it.

I like 'Revenge of the Runelords' even better.

Gary

This would be a HUGE book do you imagine ? 600 pages for RotRL alone.

There would be certain savings by combining. One cover page and one credit pages would suffice. Ads would be consolidated. But yes, it would be a big book. Well over 500 pages.

There have been many RPG books printed that size or larger: Ptolus, World's Largest Dungeon and City, War of the Burning Sky, Talislanta etc.

If size is an issue, it could always be broken down into two, three or six volumes.

The reasons I see this book (or books) having to exist is:
1) It is tricky to market a sequel to a product that is out of print.
2) It is tricky to market a sequel to a product that uses a different (thought granted similar) system.

I think those problems are likely to cause a hypothetical "Return of the Runelords" AP to be a 1st level restart. And personally, I'd find that a shame. Paizo has an opportunity here to create something really unique -- a mega-path that in one set of books explores D&D 3.x all the way from 1st to the dizzying heights of epic.

This book (or books) could solve those problems.

Gary

I too am starting a Legacy of Fire campaign next year.

Of the various APs in print, I definitely consider Legacy of Fire my favorite.

I'm hoping Kingmaker will steal its crown, though.

Gary

Let me just add my voice to the chorus.

I'd prefer an adventure path that starts where "Rise" leaves off (i.e. approx 15th level). If it could cover another fifteen levels (ambitious!) then you would have an adventure path that went from 1st to 30th level. A mega-path if you will.

Such an endeavor has only been done once before that I'm aware of (Mongoose's slipshod "Drow War")in 3.x and never well. It would be something unique.

Couple it with a Paizo limited edition hardcover ala Shackled City that converts "Rise" fully over to Pathfinder, incorporates errata and includes a previously unpublished side trek.

I could scarcely imagine a better way to celebrate Pathfinder's 5th anniversary.

I'd buy it all in a heart beat.

Gary

Some of the APs aren't available in print anymore, so I'll probably be waiting for the anniversary issues too. I have one beautiful book on my Pathfinder Shelf, with a number 25 on the binding mocking me. It's saying "Where's 1-24, huh? Huh?"

If you look around the internets, you'll have no problem finding the out of print Pathfinders.

Just to prove this to myself, I went to amazon.com and shopped around. I was able to find new or like-new copies of all six of the "Rise of the Runelords" for sale, most at steep discounts from the cover price. Only #1 has held its value at all and even it wasn't hard to find at cover. The depreciation on RPG books remains fierce.

Gary McBride

My issue has been resolved.

Gary McBride

I have a problem.

I added two events to my schedule today:

1. Life action Yetisburg
2. The Forgotten Realms three part

One saved successfully and added to my schedule just fine (Yetisburg).
The other did not, even though it says it still has slots available. It remains checked in grey like I'm signed up and indeed if I try to sign up for anything else it gives me an angry red message saying that I am already signed up an event at that time.

My question: Am I actually signed up for the Forgotten Realms three part?

I would like to be.

Gary

Gotrek22 and Gary McBride:

I submitted the fan-run games on April 1st, but I will see where Josh is with his scheduling....

But even if it is too late to get in that way, you have posted here, and if you want to run a game, then bring your game and we'll try and let people know when you are running it!

Sure, I'll bring the game regardless.

Gary

Because man does not live by Pathfinder alone...

Gate of Sorrows

Somehow you scored a golden ticket -- old man Winterbourne's red letter sendoff to Prohibition. The uppercrust gather upstate in an exclusive pleasure palace to toast in a new era of liberty and libations. It was supposed to be a celebration of rare magnificence. It was supposed to be a party.

Greed and desperation made the night a disaster. Treachery and betrayal made it a slaughter. But, nothing could prepare you for the insatiable hunger unleashed through a gate of sorrows.

4 to 6 players, 4 hours
Call of Cthulhu
Maturity Rating: R
No Experience necessary

I would prefer a later time slot for this game.

Gary McBride

I would pay $200 for a box set if it was sufficiently loaded with cool material. If you are proposing a Paizo Super-Deluxe Ptolus-esque product (box set or not), I'm so there. Maybe an exclusive adventure path available nowhere else.

If you could some how convince WotC to let that super deluxe product be a licensed limited edition Pathfinder version of Savage Tide complete with errata, new bonus adventure and vinyl giant deluxe map of the Isle of Dread ... well, then my $200 is spent.

What? A man can dream can't he?!

Anyways, far more practically, allow me to add my voice in support of a full color vinyl map ala Ptolus of Golarion.

And one of Korvosa wouldn't suck either.

Gary

I picked up "City of Brass" at Gencon last year. It is a fine and weighty product jammed with ideas and source material for visiting the fabled city of the efreet.

It is not a perfect product alas. Editing -- the editing is sub-par. Typos and grammar errors abound. They rarely if ever get in the way of understanding but they are prolific enough to be annoying.

But it is worth slogging though that slight annoyance to get to the gold mine of ideas contained within. If you are running Al-Qadim or an Arabian Nights style fantasy campaign, this product is an amazing discovery. If you are not, you should still get this product and it will convince you that you should be.

Another grand effort by the folks at Necromancer.

Gary

Call of Cthulhu is great fun and every RPG fan should read this massively influential game.

But ...

And this is a big BUT ...

The real reason to own Call of Cthulhu is the adventures and campaigns. CoC adventures include amongst their ranks some of the greatest RPG products ever published.

Masks of Nyarlathotep -- the definitive globe-trotting pulp horror campaign of desperate struggle against the machinations of the dark god and its many cults.

Beyond the Mountains of Madness -- powerful, psychologically gripping campaign that I would hesitate to spoil by telling you whats its about. My favorite RPG adventure of all time. I've run it several times and am hungry HUNGRY to run it again. Even if you don't play CoC, this campaign of antarctic exploration is a blue print on how to run a great expedition adventure.

Unseen Masters -- A modern collection of three mini-campaign featuring hidden powers and modern madness. Great stuff and unbelievably scary. Really. If you think 'Hook Mountain Massacre' was creepy -- you should check out 'The Wild Hunt'.

Delta Green -- Not put out by Chaosium (instead this is from Pagan Press), this book and its companion Delta Green: Countdown make me proud to be a roleplayer. The desperate tales of humanity's last hope to make a stand against the mythos. The stars are almost right. Have we already lost? Great writing. Great stories. Powerful stuff.

Gary

I happen to be lucky. In my area (Dallas, TX), eight or nine stores are participating. I went to one and found a disinterested clerk who when I asked him if I could take two of the products out on the table, shrugged and said 'Take 'em all if you want 'em'. So I did. One of everything.

Yay!

Revenge of the Kobold King, by the way, is very well done.

Gary

Seven Long-form non-D&D adventures

"The Great Pendragon Campaign" (White Wolf Arthaus) -- still technically fantasy but radically different from traditional D&D. An 80 plus year multi-generational exploration of Arthurian myth. A magnum opus of RPGs. Alas, increasingly hard to find. Hopefully we will someday see a 2nd edition.

"Beyond the Mountains of Madness" (Chaosium) -- perhaps the best Call of Cthulhu adventure ever published. Perhaps the best RPG adventure every published (IMHO). Set after the novella by H.P. Lovecraft, you follow in the footsteps of the doomed Miskatonic Expedition. Where they have failed, you will discover the truth. Alas, truth can be the greatest burden of all. Chaosium has promised us a 2nd edition this year.

"The Darkstryder Campaign" (WEG) -- a long out of print box set (and three support books) for WEG d6 Star Wars. Easy enough to convert. An exciting tale set four years after 'Return of the Jedi' of revenge, exploration and betrayal. Features original fiction by Timothy Zahn and loads of character development.

"Solomon Kane" (Pinnacle) -- An entire RPG (based around Savage Worlds) combined with a campaign following in the footsteps of R.E. Howard's swashbuckling pilgrim adventurer. So ripe with pulp adventure ideas, even if you don't run it, you will find plenty to steal.

"Necessary Evil" (Great White Games) -- A superhero game with a tremendous twist. Earth is invade by aliens. Earth's superheroes rush out to combat them. They die almost to a man. Who will save Earth now? The villians of course. That's you. Another Savage Worlds based game (but really ... keep the plot and junk the system ... buy Mutants and Masterminds!) combined with a wonderful plot outline of a lengthy campaign.

"Godlike" (Arcdream) -- Superheroes in World War II. Unbelievably brilliant writing by Dennis Detwiller (Delta Green) and Greg Stolze (Unknown Armies). The book has a little system, a little background and an unbelievably extensive timeline of WWII with super heroes. Playing out that timeline would be a campaign par excellance! They have also released Saipan, a complete campaign set in the Pacific.

"Gamma World: Alpha Factor, Beta Principle, Gamma Base, Delta Fragment, Epsilon Cyborgs, Omega Project (never published but available online thanks to fan reconstruction)" (TSR) -- Okay, this one needs a lot of work. Several of these adventures are sub-par to say the least. But the fundamental idea of swords, sorcery and super-science meets a quest to build a functioning space ship and leave a post-holocaust world gone mad is brilliant.

Gary McBride

I just hope they know what they're getting themselves into with those adventure path things... they're a lot of work!

I'm saddened that you aren't involved in this project. 'Red Hand of Doom' was a tremendous effort, probably the best of the 3.5 WotC adventures. Maybe 'City of the Spider Queen' gave it a run for its money. Maybe. I would think they would welcome your input.

The only adventure path from WotC we've seen so far is the free one for Star Wars 'Dawn of Defiance'. The FAQ promises one a month. The first one came out in early November. Here we are eight months later and ... we have four releases. Not encouraging.

Still, its hard to complain much about a free product. And 'Scales of War' will be neither Star Wars (far from their premier line) nor free, so we'll see.

I wonder if this digital only project will ever see paper publication? Or if they'll support it with any other products?

Hmmm...I guess I'm totally spoiled by Paizo's adventure paths.

Gary

Thanks for your prompt response. I am fine with you shipping out what you have immediately.

Gary

I place an order in January for miniatures. In my shopping cart it says all the items are pending save for one (goblin warriors) which are expected in March.

I have received nothing.

So, what's the deal?

Gary

I am also for 4 skill points being the minimum.

In fact, adding two skill points to every class would not hurt my feelings. I have played with this house rule for years in D&D 3.5 and only seen good things come of more versatile PCs.

Gary

an easy way to do that is to keep class skills (since the bonus mechanic is a part of the system) but count the # of skills a class has and allow a player to choose x skills to match the previous skills. The only issue you run into are skills that have subcategories, a bard has all the knowledge skills but a ranger has only knowledge (dungeoneering) so do you count the bard as having a # of skills = to # of subcategories or do you just count knowledge (or even perform or craft) as one? I would say that for the classes that have it as a general it counts as one, but you might not agree.

You could certainly do this in a house rule if you so cared. I never bothered. The limit of the number of skill points (or now ... the number of trained skills) always seemed limit enough. And really if a ranger decided that he served as liaison between the forest folk and the town folk and took diplomacy and sense motive as class skills, if never really seemed to affect the game anyway but positively in years of play.

This is an interesting discussion but it seems we are straying away from the original intent of this thread. I am not really advocating no class skills as a rules change to Pathfinder.

Instead, I am advocating that the monk needs diplomacy.

Gary

Sure, but Stealth is the signature skill for a rogue. Are you telling me that Diplomacy is the one skill that monks need more than any other? If you are, then I'm cool with Diplomacy as a class skill for monks. But I'm guessing it isn't.

Again, my argument is that class skills should pretty much be limited to those things that are essential to a class and that almost every member of that class will take ranks in. Thus the name 'class skills' and not just 'useful skills.'

I'm not sure I'd call stealth the signature skill for rogues. Disable Device/Open Locks/Thievery (whatever you call it) holds that honor in my mind. Many rogues can function perfectly well without stealth (I've seen it more than once) so its ludicrous to say all rogue concepts need that skill 'more than any other'. But regardless, the point is moot. I certainly don't disagree that stealth should be a rogue class skill.

The idea of a peace-maker monk who tries to resolve problems without violence seems pretty iconic. To be an effective peace-maker, the monk needs diplomacy as a class skill. Many monks in published material have it as a class skill. So it meets two of the stated goals of Pathfinder -- Compatibility and More Options.

Certainly it is more iconic to the monk concept than the Ride or Perform skills (both currently class skills). Currently, monks can't specialize in peace negotiation but they can master ballet. This needs to change.

As an aside, I actually disagree with your fundamental premise. I don't want to restrict class skills. In fact, in any D&D game (or Pathfinder for that matter) I run, the concept of class skills will be house ruled away. If you want to play a reformed monk with a criminal past, you go! A well travelled monk who has wandered the world may have knowledge (geography). In fact, I've played for years in multiple campaigns without class skills and have only seen the games get better as character options are greatly expanded.

Yay freedom!

Gary

Gary McBride wrote:

By getting rids of diplomatic monks, options are actually being curtailed.

I don't think options are being curtailed, just bonuses. You can still build a diplomatic monk, just not a +3 diplomatic monk.

Surely, class skills are about character options as well as bonuses. If you got rid of stealth as a class skill for rogues, wouldn't you be limiting options of rogues?

Gary

I'm no expert on monks but my image is that they are somewhat withdrawn, so for me, Diplomacy doesn't seem essential. You can build a diplomatic monk by taking ranks in Diplomacy, but without a feat to make up the +3, a monk just isn't going to be as diplomatic as a bard (for whom, I would argue, Diplomacy is an essential skill).

Surely, the withdrawn monk is only one version of what a monk character might look like (just as is the diplomatic bard -- what about the moody artist who snaps at anyone who questions his brilliance?).

One of the stated goals of Pathfinder is 'More options'. By getting rids of diplomatic monks, options are actually being curtailed.

Gary

Why did the monk lose diplomacy as a class skill?

Surely the wise monk who tries to talk before resorting to violence is a trope worth keeping.

Gary

Why did the monk class lose diplomacy as a class skill?

Surely the wise monk who always seeks a peaceful settlement and only resorts to butt-kicking when all else fails is a trope worthy of preservation.

Gary

Let me add my support to the Al-Qadim with the serial numbers filed off Adventure Path.

Compulsory elements:
djinn and efreet as more than just combat encounters
An item that grants wishes
A roc big enough to carry off an elephant
A sea voyage worthy of Sinbad
An expedition to the lost city of Irem, City of Pillars
A lengthy portion of the campaign set in the City of Brass

Gary