Alex Mack wrote:
If it can only be read as one thing, why is it not just written that way, like other features that explicitly state it as such? I would say it's different editing by different PCS writers, or they wrote it precisely as they meant. It's happened before with splats that never get FAQ'ed.My brain says reading it as something else when that "something else" is often explicitly written doesn't make a compelling case for the selection of 7th level revelations being legal in a Society game.
My heart says a regular game, in all likelihood, will have a GM that'll reasonably handwaive it, not look twice, and use your conclusion. My heart also says regular games are superior any who lol
You're probably looking to be a 10th level Vivisectionist x Beastmorph.
For the full breakdown, you'd need the 10th level feature of Beastmorph to get the Fly, Pounce, and your choice of another feature from Beast Shape II. This is not a polymorph effect.
At 10th level, you have access to 4th level Alchemist Extracts, of which include Beast Shape II, which allows for the transformation into a large animal. In this case, a giant octopus. This is a polymorph effect.
You cannot make two attacks with the same natural attack, so the bite of Feral Mutagen is wasted, and this extends to the claws as well. Perhaps you could replace two tentacle attacks with claws for the purposes of bypassing damage resistance, which is definitely a plus. Ask your GM.
I'll say this though: if you turn into a Giant Octopus near water and can reliably sneak attack, it's a great boon. Hope that helps! It's a good combo; I'm playing one myself.
Thought I'd necro this a moment because I'm not sure at all where the language for the ability states that your inquisitor level counts as oracle levels for the purposes of determining which revelations you can select.
I make my case here primarily using existing language from CRB and APG that has long since been FAQ'ed that there is in fact a difference between "X levels being treated as Y levels to determine the <ability>'s effects" and "X levels being treated as Y levels to determine which <ability> you can pick" and that one does not equal the other.
It's my belief that by RAW, especially in Pathfinder Society where FAQ > RAW > RAI, you'd pick a level 1 revelation at level 1 in Ravener Hunter, and a level 1 revelation at level 8 in Ravener Hunter, and both revelations are treated as if a level 8 Oracle was using them. I cannot see an RAI standpoint that is reasonable for this either as I feel many a level 1 revelation at mid-to-high levels compete well with 8th level domain and inquisition powers, particularly from the Nature, Battle, Life, and Shadow mystery, to name a few. I can see it being quickly homebrewed and allowed at a home game however so long as its stated that way. Thoughts?
The full source, please:
Charged By Nature wrote:
Rather than having a deity patron, a ravener hunter is charged by the spirits of the Mwangi to eradicate evil wherever it appears. At 1st level, a ravener hunter chooses an oracle mystery from the following list: ancestor, battle, flame, heavens, life, lunar, nature, solar, stone, time, volcano, waves, wind, or wood. She gains one revelation from her chosen mystery. She must meet the revelation’s prerequisites, using her inquisitor level as her effective oracle level to determine the revelation’s effects, and she never qualifies for the Extra Revelation feat. The ravener hunter gains a second revelation from her chosen mystery at 8th level.
Volcano Mystery wrote:
Magma Form (Su): As a standard action, you can assume the form of a Small magma elemental, as elemental body I. You gain the same abilities as if you had chosen an earth elemental’s form, except your earth glide functions as the earth glide ability of a magma elemental. At 9th level, you can assume the form of a Medium magma elemental, as elemental body II. At 11th level, you can assume the form a Large magma elemental, as elemental body III. At 13th level, you can assume the form of a Huge magma elemental, as elemental body IV. You can use this ability once per day, but the duration is 1 hour per oracle level. You must be at least 7th level to choose this revelation.
Relevant parts bolded. I think you mean 8th level, as you cannot select Magma Form at 7th level even if you assumed Inquisitor Levels equaled Oracle levels to qualify for that revelation.
Seems pretty clear that it's advancing the effects of the revelation chosen, nothing more, and that more revelations cannot be chosen with Extra Revelation. When do class features do anything more than what they say unless its RAI or homebrew territory?
If it meant to also say that it "uses her inquisitor level as her effective oracle level for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites of revelations," then it would say it, but it can be easily understood. Check out the Rage Prophet for something that also stacks with or counts Oracle levels.
Rage Prophet wrote:
Savage Seer: A rage prophet's class level stacks with barbarian levels for determining the effect of rage powers, and with oracle levels for determining the effect of oracle revelations and his oracle's curse.
Emphasis mine. If you got to level 6 Oracle, and have 4 levels in Rage Prophet, and you took the Extra Revelation feat, you would only be able to select Revelations of 6th level or lower. If it said that Rage Prophet levels stack with Oracle levels for the purpose of selecting revelations, then you'd be able to select Revelations of 10th level or lower in the mystery list.In fact, here's the FAQ
At 8th level, yes, you can take any revelation from your chosen mystery provided that you qualify for it using your inquisitor level as your oracle level.
The class feature doesn't say that extra part, but it does say you have to qualify for it. Strictly written, you technically wouldn't qualify for even the 1st level Revelation you pick. From a sensible standpoint, you qualify for at least the 1st level revelations. From a class optimization standpoint, one could assume that "unwritten" bit is "implied" but that can be a slippery slope. Even the CRB Eldritch Knight makes the prerequisites bit very clear.
Eldritch Knight wrote:
Diverse Training: An eldritch knight adds his level to any levels of fighter he might have for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for feats (if he has no fighter levels, treat his eldritch knight levels as levels of fighter)
The parenthetical bit, which is explicitly stated in this class feature, is not included in Charged By Nature.
Maybe it's bad editing. Maybe it's Paizo.
To see if the descriptive text carries any weight mechanically, I asked the GM if I'd be able to use this arm to attack enemy hiding behind a cage or relatively thin wall if I know they are there, and would it count as an incorporeal touch attack if I know they are behind the cover.
The GM concludes the descriptive text carries no mechanical function, therefore it isn't mechanically incorporeal, and I do not have the incorporeal subtype or special ability to be able to do it. To the GM, and the target would get their half-cover bonus to AC or if they have total cover I would not be able to attempt the attack against the target even with concealment.
Quick question on the Alchemist Discovery, Phantom Limb, from the Undead Slayer's Handbook. I was wondering if it would be mechanically considered an incorporeal touch attack.
Phantom Limb wrote:
The alchemist can manifest a ghostly, incorporeal arm that juts out from his torso. This phantom limb does not grant the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, and it cannot hold or grab anything (including incorporeal objects). The alchemist may use his phantom limb to make a touch attack against a foe as a standard action, scraping away at the very fibers of the victim’s soul. This attack deals 1d4 points of damage per alchemist level (Fortitude half ). Creatures that are immune to incorporeal attacks are immune to this damage, but otherwise the damage bypasses all forms of damage reduction except DR/ epic. The alchemist may suppress or activate this ability as a free action, and can use his phantom limb for a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + his Intelligence modifier (these rounds need not be consecutive). An alchemist must be at least 8th level to select this discovery.
Emphasis mine. The opening "flavor text" describes it as a ghostly, incorporeal arm, while the "flavor text" that follows its declaration as a touch attack describes it as scraping away something that is not physical, a soul. In addition, immunity to incorporeal attacks counters this ability.
I have not found any ruling that explicitly states only incorporeal creatures can make incorporeal touch attacks, only that some creatures are capable of making them (see blow).
Touch Attacks wrote:
Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally. Some creatures have the ability to make incorporeal touch attacks. These attacks bypass solid objects, such as armor and shields, by passing through them. Incorporeal touch attacks work similarly to normal touch attacks except that they also ignore cover bonuses. Incorporeal touch attacks do not ignore armor bonuses granted by force effects, such as mage armor and bracers of armor.
It seems to me like there are three options:
1.) The arm is incorporeal, and can pass through objects to ignore cover bonuses, just like an incorporeal touch attack.
For context: My GM says the descriptive text means nothing mechanically. Personally, incorporeal, descriptive or not, means it has no physical substance, and the description and counter to the ability heavily imply this is an incorporeal arm. So my heart says #1.
What do you guys think? Which of the three is the right one for you?