Doctor Zorkfeld's page

Uh, aren't classes that make attack rolls (or trick attacks) just "spamming their feature over and over?"

I mean, yeah, there's some repetition in gameplay. That's the nature of the game (unless you are a D&D/Pathfinder Wizard who just gets to do whatever they want until they can browbeat their party into resting for the night).

As an Envoy, I flank, I Coordinate Shots, I assist rolls all over the place, I take scenario-relevant social or technical actions so my beatstick friends don't screw up their action economy, I debuff and buff, I occasionally kill-steal from the Solarian when enemies have 1 hit point left, just to be a jerk, I heal both stamina (with Improvs) and hit points (with Medicine).

I am hardly bored, even though most rounds consist of Get 'Em!/Clever Feint. I make my friends happy, because I turn their disappointing misses into victorious hits, sometimes very unexpectedly (like when that natural 6 turns into a hit against the boss because of my +5).

And that has value, I think.

Except you have improved get em, which is equal to any other debuff you can do as a standard action. So how do you wind up losing anything by shooting, and what ability do you have to boost the parties accuracy that would be lost by picking up a longarm?

I have Improved Get Em! now... I was mostly discussing my time until this point.

Also I am mostly melee when I do fight so I can help with flanking and Coordinated Shot, so replace potential longarm with potential advanced melee, I guess, though it is kinda a waste with my big +1 Str/Dex bonus.

The envoy comes with so much ability to do that that the 18 charisma seems like overkill/diminishing returns.

I see that you are not familiar with my terrible luck.

Quote:

Also people should play what they want.

It's a little weird to me that people are letting a number under charisma and the size of their g...choice to use small arms be defining characteristics of their character.

Choice to use basic melee weapons, thanks.

It's a little weird to me that people are letting a maximum efficiency argument to suggest that other people are playing the wrong way, especially when the numbers aren't even decisive.

I think it is cool that players can contribute without raising a hand in anger. It is a play style that hasn't been well supported, historically.

As a "Spoony" Witchwyrd Envoy, up through level 5, I generally granted a +3 to +5 bonus swing to my party, which consists of:

Sarcesian Sharpshooter Soldier (sniper rifles)
Human Heavy Weapon Drone Mechanic
Heavy Weapon Drone
Dwarf Operative (melee/pistol switch hitter)
Lashunta Weapon Solarian

With this crew, a swing of the size I grant is enough to sometimes convert multiple misses per round into hits, and often by only 1 or 2 points (so a lesser bonus from a lower commitment to the schtick would have not been enough).

If I were to shoot or stab on my own, losing at least 2 points to my bonus swing, I would maybe do 1d4+2 damage... certainly not the gross amounts of damage that the crew does.

Now that I am level 6, I can buy a little more into attack options (as Improved Get 'Em! includes a potential standard action attack), but I'm still not contributing as much as any one of my hard core murderhobo teammates, all of whom rely on attack rolls to do their damage.

In addition, being so "Spoony" with an 18+ Charisma allows me to handle all of the social duties that my emotionally stunted comrades cannot reliably handle. Freeing them up for more murder. I bluffed and disguised our way through Escape from the Prison Moon without difficulty.

So... as my contribution to this discussion, I believe that the party composition can contribute to Spooniness.

Also people should play what they want.

And Inspiring Boost is only useful if it prevents from dropping. At low level, Serums of Healing being expensive, it's also a bit useful to avoid losing hit points. But as soon as level 5, you don't care much. At medium to high levels hit points are easier to heal than stamina points.

Just going to point out here that, in Society play, your income (and timetable) is pretty limited, and even at higher levels one is reluctant to buy a lot of healing serums, so avoiding hit point damage is more important. My Inspiring Boosts have helped the flow of the game considerably (on top of saving people from going down now and then).

Plus, appropriately, Inspiring Boost is also a real-world morale bonus for players. Makes them feel good to get that buffer back.

I don't have the strength for Heavy Armor. Need to wait for level 5. Also, I just took Clever Feint.

No Unwieldy weapon, because you don't do attacks of opportunity with them, and I want to be disruptive. Also, they don't have reach (at least the Basic Melee Weapons ones) and I want to give Coordinated Shot to a lot of my allies. I'll go for Lances.
I'll play him a few times in the coming weeks. I'll tell you here (there are no personal messages on this forum...).

I don't think any of the basic weapons have Reach, so to get that you'll need to take Advanced Melee Weapon Proficiency to use lances (my Soldier's plasma lance is an advanced weapon, at least). The spears can be thrown but don't have Reach.

Also, being a Witchwyrd, I don't have to choose between an unwieldy weapon and being able to make attacks of opportunity... I have four arms!

Doctor Zorkfeld wrote:

Honestly, when the Solarian has a different flanking buddy, I have very little that I need to do other than Get 'Em!/Clever Feint. So I find it's actually pretty likely to happen. If he does need a flanking buddy I can move and sometimes remain flanking in subsequent rounds to dispense the huge bonuses. Since I almost never do direct damage, most enemies find themselves more likely to attack someone else.

In fact, you convinced me to give it a try. When my Envoy hit level 4, I was quite disappointed. So, I haven't played him for some time. But I want to try your build. I'm also thinking in taking Heavy Armor Proficiency and go in front line right from the start. So, enemies come to me and give the Coordinated Shot advantage to my range buddies, and I can just go Get'Em + Clever Feint and get to this +5 bonus (when I'll be level 6).

Thanks for your help ;)

Awesome! I'd love to know how it works out. I took Heavy Armor Proficiency at level 1, so you have the right idea. Once you do get the ability to attack along with your buffs/debuffs (which can be as early as level 4), pick up an Unwieldy melee weapon, since making a full attack really isn't in the cards for this build; you might as well take the biggest stick you can find.

Ravingdork wrote:

It is kind of odd that the aristocrat of Pathfinder has full base attack bonus, but the envoy of Starfinder does not.

You'd think that's where the majority of the galaxies envoys evolved from.

I think the envoy could do fine with Full-Bab and it still wouldn't step on the combat-focused classes' toes. I get it that spellcasters and the operatives get the 3/4, along with half of the mechanic class, but for one such as the envoy, it should be getting way more into its chassis than it currently have available. It doesn't get spells, no leveling features, skill monkey outclassed by the other skill monkey that also performs quite well into combat (in fact, according to some players, seems like the Operatives are king in almost every field up until 11th level). The class does have some things that are unique, but for every unique thing, they either are shafted in the action economy or the option is highly situational and even worse, even the most situational aren't even worth it when they do come up.

I find that a lot of Operative players don't really understand Trick Attack very well. It's a Full Action; you can't draw a weapon when you do the move, or do a guarded step, and you can't take swift actions, either. So their action economy, if played correctly, is a little more complex than some folks make it out to be. Also the trick is by no means a guarantee until 7th level, and Clever Feint, if done by a competent Envoy, is a lot more likely to apply than a Debilitating Trick (between Convincing Liar and a Bluff Expertise die, I can count on one hand the number of failed Clever Feints I've rolled).

Having Improved Get'Em and Clever Feint running at the same time is quite improbable. So, I'll stay at +4/+3. But I must admit I hadn't thought about Coordinated Shot, and it's true that it adds quite some punch. You can also add a Menacing Fusion to your weapon, so you can give flanking bonuses to all melee fighters if you hit.

Good idea on the fusion.

Honestly, when the Solarian has a different flanking buddy, I have very little that I need to do other than Get 'Em!/Clever Feint. So I find it's actually pretty likely to happen. If he does need a flanking buddy I can move and sometimes remain flanking in subsequent rounds to dispense the huge bonuses. Since I almost never do direct damage, most enemies find themselves more likely to attack someone else.

Anyway, we are on the same side, I also want to play other types of Envoy than the weapon one. But, currently, the limitation at once per short rest is killing the healing Envoy.
Do you have Quick Inspiring Boost with your Envoy?

The penalty to Stamina heal on Quick Inspiring Boost is what prevents me from getting it. If it were on a separate "per 10-minute rest" track from regular Inspiring Boost it would be different, but I try to wait for the correct time to give my heals out so that the target gets the most bang for my buck. As a DocVoy, I also can reliably hit the DC 20/25 Medicine check to Treat Deadly Wounds, which is a bit harder for Operatives with Medicine.

Most of my turns involve determining if the Solarian needs a flanking buddy. If so, I move to the correct space and then either Improved Get 'Em! or Clever Feint as needed (more likely Improved Get 'Em! since it lets me attack as well; I will get Clever Attack at 8th and then I'll have more options). Since I also have Coordinated Shot, me standing next to an enemy can mean up to a +5 for ranged attacks against them, or +6 for my flanking buddy's melee.

I have a friend who has quite an excellent SRO Skyfire Centurion Envoy who gives huge bonuses with Harrying Fire.

Currently, the weapon Envoy is the only playable

Hogwash! I've seen plenty of Envoys that don't shell out for weapon proficiencies that do perfectly well. My level 6 Doctor Envoy barely ever attacks and his team has made short work of both Against the Aeon Throne and the first third of Dead Suns.

The kasatha were going to a specific Promised Planet, not just the nearest habitable one. And if they'd waited a couple more years they'd have been able to use Drift technology to shorten their trip by centuries.

I smell a rat.

I would like to state that, unequivocally, and for the record, that neither the Cyrunian people, commonly known as Witchwyrds, nor their chosen representatives of the Tetrad Combine, knew of the eminent emergence of Drift travel when we convinced the Kasathan people to load their entire race into a tin can and blast off towards a conveniently out of the wayhabitable planet.

I would also like to state that the Tetrad Combine specifically does not advertise any access to temporal manipulation devices, commonly known as "time machines."

Zo! wrote:

"Yo, my man Dan!" Zo! points a bony finger at Dan Tharp. "Tell Owen that the next time he holds a death match with spoons, my crew needs to be there to film it! Just sayin'."

Sorry Zo! The contract advance payment didn't come through before the deathmatch, and... you know...

No credits, no broadcast.

But... it's Zo! You know he's good for it.

Melee Envoy?

Ouch.

I have a melee Envoy up to level 3... though I don't actually fight so much as make people flat-footed and flank for the Solarion. I did take Heavy Armor because my dex is +0 and that seems to be working so far... I usually don't take many hits because the opponent is more worried about the Solarion or the bevy of high-range-damage enemies than one strange witchwyrd flailing his arms around, wielding a scalpel.

Or just spend the resolve point

Or buy a six pack of healing serums

Resolve Point: rather keep those for stuff like Improved Get 'Em or, you know, not dying.

Healing Serums: by the time I can use RP on an Inspired Medic check, my healing will be around 18 per shot (going up to 21 per shot at level 10). I might not even hit that with a 1950 credit Mk. 3 serum.

Is it ideal play? Maybe not. But it is thematic for my character, and a choice that isn't taken without reason.

Skill focus for an envoy on an expertise skill is absolutely terrible. The consolation prize is once per day, rerolling the d6. Which you have to call in advance. Its objectively, mathematically, slightly more than a +1 to the check once per day.

It has use because if I choose to decline my expertise die to reroll my Medicine check with Inspired Medic, I still get +3 Insight bonus. With the Surgeon DC sneaking up to 30 for the extra HP, it is a valid option.

It isn't brain surgery.

Well. I suppose it could be.

@doctorzorkfield you’re right that the medpatch +10 bonus is nullified when used in conjunction with medical expert feat, which i understood, and was another reason why i think it’s weak and not worth it. the only “benefit” is being able to performing the skill “faster.” perhaps it could be worthwhile if that synergy brought the dc to 20, or allowed the medpatch to keep the +10, or some other benefit [shrug].

as you mentioned, and i’d agree with assessment: it sucks and is useless at lower level. with lower medicine skill bonus, hitting that dc 25 is not easy. i haven’t played enough to know exactly how it would be more useful/worthwhile at higher level. right now, i’m giving the feat a big fat thumb’s down (lol)

Well, let's look at how it scales up.

At 4th level, the minimum level that you can have an Advanced Medkit in Society play (without having it on a chronicle sheet), a typical doctor Envoy will have 4 skill ranks, +2 Intelligence bonus (assuming investment in Charisma and Dex as well), and a +3 class bonus, and +1d6 Expertise, for a total of +10-15 (there are of course floating bonuses like the Lashunta racial and Biotechnician, but let's discount those for now as optimizations). That is about a 60% chance of succeeding at a DC 20 action each time to heal 4 hit points and a 35% chance to heal 6 hit points. About an average of 2.75 points of healing per medpatch (.055 hit points per credit). That really isn't a good use of money, when a healing serum is a 100% chance of healing 4.5 hit points (.09 hit points per credit).

There's a big jump at 5th level. Now 5 ranks, +3 Intelligence bonus, and +1d6+1 Expertise for a total of +13-18 for a roughly 75% chance of healing 5 HP and a 50% chance of healing 8 hp. While there's still a chance you get nothing; let's call the average heal 5.25 (.105 hit points per credit). So, all other things being equal, an average doctor Envoy will start to pull ahead in value-per-50-credit-consumable at level 5.

At level 6 you can pick up Bedside Manner, which adds your Charisma bonus to your Treat Deadly Wounds hit points healed. I'm going to say that the typical Society Envoy starts with 16 Cha, buffed it to 18 at 5th level, and bought the Mk. 1 Personal Augmentation (probably can't afford the level 7 Mk 2 augment yet) for a total Cha bonus of +5. New total Medicine bonus of +14-19 with expertise for an 80% chance of healing 11 and a 55% chance of healing 14. Average heal of 10.45, now over double of what you get from a Mk. 1 healing serum and .209 hit points per credit. Now, by this point you're likely to be packing Mk. 2 healing serums that have an average heal of 13.5, but they cost 425 credits (an abysmal .038 credits per hit point).

Of course, if you're picking up Bedside Manner at 6th level, you're not getting Improved Get 'Em, which seems like folly, but it's a pretty solid level 8 choice.

So, overall, by the time you are level 5, any reasonable investment in medicine will render Medical Expert slightly better than a Mk. 1 healing serum (minus the action economy), and the economy only gets better from there (not to mention potentially free healing between encounters).

I have an Envoy who will eventually get Skill Focus and Expertise in Medicine. We have a 6 person party and the person that was supposed to play a Mystic decided that an Operative was what was really needed instead.

So it falls on me to do the healing. I got lucky once during Reach of the Empire by rolling an 18 on the die for Treat Deadly Wounds and healed 1 hit point to the Solarian. Sigh. Luckily I'm also the quartermaster and simply allocated a couple thousand credits of the party's money to healing serums, medpatches, and nanopens.

Anyway, I don't think the medpatch's +10 applies to Treat Deadly Wounds when used with Medical Expert, because the feat says that none of the object's regular effects apply; it _just_ lets you do the Treat Deadly Wounds action quickly.

Frankly, this is not a great option at early levels when a Mk. 1 serum will do the trick without a hard skill check for the same cost, but is a reasonable value later when the ratio between a 1d8 serum and Level+Intelligence Bonus becomes a bit more skewed on the latter end.

There are a number of Envoy options that help with Treat Deadly Wounds, if I recall. Inspired Medic, Battlefield Medicine, Bedside Manner, and Surgeon all let you do more with it.

as far as a i know, i have the only Wrickreechee in my area at least, as it came with the Alien Archive boon.

I very nearly played my recent Envoy as a Wrikreechee, but then I traded for a Witchwyrd boon at SkalCon, which worked better for the particular circumstances.

I would really like to play a Wrikreechee with Barricade, Antagonize, and Not in the Face! though. Just hide behind stuff and say mean things, then apologize profusely when they come over to confront you about it.

I'm running a party of 5, wanted to know if everyone had their party at level 3 before the Sharu fight or did you all level them up once they were completely done with book 1. I know there is normally a spike in power for the players once they hit level 3. I don't want them to die to being under leveled but I also don't want it to be a super easy fight for them also. I already increased the amount of HP Sharu has but I'm looking for some other suggestions as well.

We ran it Starfinder Society with a group of six level 1s. Since you don't gain a level in SFS until after the entire AP, none of us had even hit 2 before the final encounter.

We did fine. The Solarian went down and I was injured, but we took her down the same round as that happened.

That said, we were a coordinated group of no-nonsense beat stick level 1 PCs designed to roll combat encounters.

Witchwyrd Envoy (Clever Feint w/melee flanking) [me]
Korasha Lashunta Solarian (Weapon)
Dwarf Soldier (Heavy Weapon)
Human Soldier (Bombard)
Nuar Technomancer
Sarcesian Soldier (Sharpshooter)

I think that you don't need to level them up to 3 before the final encounter unless they are having trouble with the encounters leading up to her in the ship.