Character Operations Manual expectations


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What are you expecting to see out of the Character Operations Manual? Besides the new classes, what are your expectations for the new book?


More feats, archetypes, and themes. Can never have enough.


I'm hoping it functions somewhat like an Advanced Players Guide, in that along with some new classes we get some fun options for the existing classes.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I would LOVE to see new a couple more drone chassis options. One thing that bothers me is the combat drone is better at melee then range. When looking at the mods it comes with though you can stick a rifle on it at level one. Maybe give the option to swap the strength and dexterity?


I personally would love that


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There's already a post about that, if I'm not making a mistake.

And as I answered in the other post, more love for the Envoy. It's the only class with no new options above level 8. High level Improvisations are greatly needed!


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Huh, anyone have a link to the contents post? I can't find it atm.


Definitely a reason not to bail on the envoy after 12 when you've been snagging level 8 options for 4 levels and all your stuff stops improving.


My long-shot hope is that there's something in the book about upgrading power armor. As it stands, it's still not a long-term character solution as, assuming we're operating somewhere close to WBL guidelines, it's far too expensive to keep yourself in power armor once you level beyond your first set.


BlueCatastrophe wrote:
My long-shot hope is that there's something in the book about upgrading power armor. As it stands, it's still not a long-term character solution as, assuming we're operating somewhere close to WBL guidelines, it's far too expensive to keep yourself in power armor once you level beyond your first set.

I don't think they're going to try to do that once they've already done it


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Definitely a reason not to bail on the envoy after 12 when you've been snagging level 8 options for 4 levels and all your stuff stops improving.

Clearly. I would stop at 13, for the expertise boost. In my opinion, Envoy is the worst class as it is currently, and partly because there's a big lack of options.


SuperBidi wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Definitely a reason not to bail on the envoy after 12 when you've been snagging level 8 options for 4 levels and all your stuff stops improving.
Clearly. I would stop at 13, for the expertise boost. In my opinion, Envoy is the worst class as it is currently, and partly because there's a big lack of options.

...but Envoys are good... The lack of high level options barely rates, since 95% of gameplay is well before they run out of new options.

I think Mechanic is the class with the most problems right now. When I'm thinking up character concepts I'm hard pressed just to not make a techy Operative or a soldier with Skill Synergy instead of a Mechanic.


Dracomicron wrote:
...but Envoys are good...

My Envoy is level 4, so, it's hard for me to properly judge. But I feel Envoys need more time to be effective than other classes, and once they finally reach some level of effectiveness, the lack of high level options just penalizes them. So, they are quite bad at low level, and quite bad at high level... Not exactly what I would call "good".

For Mechanics, it depends on your choice between Exocortex and Drone. For Exocortex Mechanics, I tend to agree with you. But for Drone Mechanics, I really find them excellent, easily able to compete with a range Soldier during combat and be far more useful outside combat.


SuperBidi wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:
...but Envoys are good...

My Envoy is level 4, so, it's hard for me to properly judge. But I feel Envoys need more time to be effective than other classes, and once they finally reach some level of effectiveness, the lack of high level options just penalizes them. So, they are quite bad at low level, and quite bad at high level... Not exactly what I would call "good".

I have a level 1 soldier level 4 envoy and she kicks butt.

The trick is to get out of the spoony bard mentality and figure out how you're going to contribute directly to the fight. The class automatically means you have options for helping other people, but to contribute yourself you need to get longarms/heavy weapons or really spread your stats out and go melee. An unwieldy weapon helps as you can't full attack while using clever attack or get em.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
Dracomicron wrote:
...but Envoys are good...

My Envoy is level 4, so, it's hard for me to properly judge. But I feel Envoys need more time to be effective than other classes, and once they finally reach some level of effectiveness, the lack of high level options just penalizes them. So, they are quite bad at low level, and quite bad at high level... Not exactly what I would call "good".

I have a level 1 soldier level 4 envoy and she kicks butt.

The trick is to get out of the spoony bard mentality and figure out how you're going to contribute directly to the fight. The class automatically means you have options for helping other people, but to contribute yourself you need to get longarms/heavy weapons or really spread your stats out and go melee. An unwieldy weapon helps as you can't full attack while using clever attack or get em.

...whearas my AP team swears by my "spoony" Envoy because they all rely on attack rolls with large weapons, and the +2 to +6 swing that my level 6 Envoy provides more than compensates for damage he's not doing (though he's now starting to contribute damage from Improved Get 'Em! and then will help even more with Clever Attack at 8th level). Plus there's all the stamina healing, which has saved characters from serious hit point damage.

Envoys are really good.


Dracomicron wrote:


...whearas my AP team swears by my "spoony" Envoy because they all rely on attack rolls with large weapons, and the +2 to +6 swing that my level 6 Envoy provides more than compensates for damage he's not doing (though he's now starting to contribute damage from Improved Get 'Em! and then will help even more with Clever Attack at 8th level).

How much of your Hit swing would you have if you were also contributing directly?

Or to ask another way, what do you have devoted to your hit swing that you could devote to your ability to deal damage?

On an envoy they're almost entirely separate pools. The class gives you the hit swing your feats and stats open up the ability to do damage (and oddly enough your charisma is pretty much irrelevant to either) You can't really do more of one with the other.

Quote:
Plus there's all the stamina healing, which has saved characters from serious hit point damage.

I don't really like that ability. It doesn't scale very well.

It affects the fight if you change

Would rest for staminia vs. not rest for staminia (under most circumstances your staminia pool increases while the cost for this remains the same) so you wind up resting anyway

.. except this is almost non existant. If someone has been hit with your inspiring boost they need to rest again to gain the benefit anyway.

Take staminia vs lose hitpoints: Only matters if you're away from civilization and a workshop for a LOOOOONG time. otherwise healing serums are really cheap. If you're taking multiple fights at once, this ability greatly diminishes in usefulness.

Would drop or not drop without it: there's almost always something better for the opportunity cost. Hurry will let someone 5 foot step, which considering the NPCs high hits. Doing damage will drop the bad guys sooner.

Envoy are really good but most people making them are trading offense for almost nothing.


To kick butts with an Envoy, you don't need much of what the class gives you. And if you wait for the class features, they really add up slowly... and suddenly completely stop.
Other classes give you features which immediately kick in. And they continue to give more up to level 20.


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Smaller archetypes - only 2 levels.

Also mid to higher level only archetypes. Having to choose at second level is tough.

Customizable archetype-like options - being able to choose which levels you want to take, instead of buying the whole package. Similar to multiclassing, in a sense.


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Something to make archery a worthwhile option to play something like a Green Arrow / Hawkeye / Hanzo / Aloy / etc. And for them to decide what route they want to go with bows, better bows (like AP4) or improved arrows (like armory)?


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Uchuujin wrote:
Something to make archery a worthwhile option to play something like a Green Arrow / Hawkeye / Hanzo / Aloy / etc. And for them to decide what route they want to go with bows, better bows (like AP4) or improved arrows (like armory)?

I'll be honest, I forgot bows were even in the setting until JUST now.


The worst offender for the envoy for me is that they are lame. Seriously lame.

Their best abilities are really boring not only thinking in terms of mechanically using them, but RP-wise as well. Get'em is literally someone shouting whatever every 6 seconds. While envoys get some terrible effects, Operatives are getting stuff that work like spells, the ability to go invisible, use mirror image and even heal themselves.

The envoy is just a poor-man's bard. If it didn't have a screwed up action economy on the first 4 to 6 levels (4 for Clever Feint/Attack and 6 for Get'em), had more built-in class features, better options beyond Inspiring Boost, Clever Feint and Get'em and existed in a game where Operatives didn't, then it would be considered a good class.

I sure damn hope that Paizo acknowledge this and fix the class with the new content. It would be a dream if we had some errata/buffs to the class in the core rulebook (which is probably impossible to have).


Might be a long shot, but I wouldn't mind seeing a variant for the solarion that focuses on some other dichotomy. Heat and Cold jumps to mind.


Lightning Raven wrote:
I sure damn hope that Paizo acknowledge this and fix the class with the new content. It would be a dream if we had some errata/buffs to the class in the core rulebook (which is probably impossible to have).

Well, Paizo has a lot of room to improve the Envoy: Level 10 to 20 Improvisations.

Another easy way to get him on par with the Operative would be to add the Extra Improvisation feat. Or Extra Expertise. I know this is something Paizo hasn't done with any class, but for the Envoy, it would be greatly appreciated.
I think these few changes would make it far easier to play. It would be still a bit hard before level 6, but at least, you'll have everything to shine after that.


I don't know if the envoys would be way too strong or anything, but I definitely think that the class should be full-BAB and have longarms specialization. It doesn't have spells or spell-like effects, just minor effects that will eventually be overshadowed by spells, so if the class had a stronger chassis it would definitely help. Currently, the class has the features of a specialist class without the same level of customization (mechanics) and without any access to spells, like Technomancers and Envoy. Since the class is supposed to be mundane, it wouldn't hurt at all if it also had a little more help in its BAB and proficiency, it wouldn't even come close to soldiers and solarians, because they have way more than just BAB, most of their features enhance combat, so it wouldn't be envoys getting the best of both worlds (skills and combat prowess), it would be just Envoys not sucking completely compared to other classes.

Regarding improvisations, I wouldn't mind if it stopped at 8th level to be honest, the huge issue is them being supposed to be the "strongest" but are actually highly situational and borderline useless and the best one - Expert Attack - should've been given to the class instead of being an option. The same thing should be done with Clever Improvisations, Long Range Improvisations and Universal Expression. These are all just things that improve what the Envoy can do, rather than being actual choices.

It's also really awful having to get the Improved versions of your path. It would be GREAT to have more swift-action improvisations and later on using improvisations as part of other actions, like they do with Standard, but making a move while performing the improvisation would be very welcome as well (dependent on the kind of improv).

All of this, of course, wouldn't change much the fact that the class is severely lacking in the "cool" factor, since most abilities just grant minor bonuses or apply some conditions, rather than allowing an interesting playstyle.

I mean, using Get'em every round sure is effective, but I find it really hard to think that it's fun to roleplay that. Somebody answered me a while ago on this topic that he roleplayed as making quick "quips" every round... But when you're just doing some random quips does this categorize as "Get'em!!!"? I would say not, but to each their own, right?


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Lightning Raven wrote:

The worst offender for the envoy for me is that they are lame. Seriously lame.

Their best abilities are really boring not only thinking in terms of mechanically using them, but RP-wise as well. Get'em is literally someone shouting whatever every 6 seconds. While envoys get some terrible effects, Operatives are getting stuff that work like spells, the ability to go invisible, use mirror image and even heal themselves.

The envoy is just a poor-man's bard.

Envoys can heal a laser blast with encouragement. Envoys can give you Lightning Reflexes with a timely warning. Envoys can urge you to Haste every round... look, I agree that there are a lot of garbage Improvisations (as there are garbage options in every class), but I don't think that "poor man's bard" is accurate. Between the highest skill bonuses in the game and reasonable combat options that make EVERYONE do better, Envoys are awesome.


Dracomicron wrote:
Envoys are awesome

I tend to disagree.

Dracomicron wrote:
Envoys can heal a laser blast with encouragement.

I like Inspiring Boost but calling that "laser blast" is clearly overstated. It performs ok healing with not a lot of conditions (even if the toughest one is that you can't heal twice the same character, forbidding you to support a character who's taking too much damage).

Mystic performs laser blast healing, but with a lot more conditions. Even if, at least, the Mystic can maintain a character who's taking too much damage.

Dracomicron wrote:
Envoys can urge you to Haste every round...

No, it gives you his own actions. And without Improved Hurry, he gives you a move by using a standard, so clearly subpar.

Dracomicron wrote:
Between the highest skill bonuses

Not at low level. Before reaching roughly level 9, even if the bonuses are great, they apply to so few skills that Operative Edge clearly outshadows Skill Expertise.

Being good at only one skill is not a PC job, but an expert one, and experts are NPCs.

Lightning Raven wrote:
I don't know if the envoys would be way too strong or anything, but I definitely think that the class should be full-BAB and have longarms specialization.

That would kill most Envoy builds but one. Currently, the weapon Envoy is the only playable, but the Envoy class implies that you could build many other things. So, advantaging this build again would just kill the other class abilities: What's the point in healing if you're better at damaging? What's the point in giving others actions if you can perform them yourself?

The Envoy is an expert with 3/4 BAB and should stay that way. What the Envoy needs is improvement in his improvisations, all of them, not just in the few of them which are already overrepresented.

Acquisitives

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SuperBidi wrote:
Currently, the weapon Envoy is the only playable

Hogwash! I've seen plenty of Envoys that don't shell out for weapon proficiencies that do perfectly well. My level 6 Doctor Envoy barely ever attacks and his team has made short work of both Against the Aeon Throne and the first third of Dead Suns.


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Doctor Zorkfeld wrote:
Hogwash! I've seen plenty of Envoys that don't shell out for weapon proficiencies that do perfectly well. My level 6 Doctor Envoy barely ever attacks and his team has made short work of both Against the Aeon Throne and the first third of Dead Suns.

Anyway, we are on the same side, I also want to play other types of Envoy than the weapon one. But, currently, the limitation at once per short rest is killing the healing Envoy.

Do you have Quick Inspiring Boost with your Envoy?


If you choose the clever feint improvisation line, you barely need to actually use your weapon, because Clever Feint will just be your standard action most rounds because between risking to miss (weak BAB and as much need to invest in DEX as other classes) with your measly 1d4-1d6 pea-shooter is way worse than applying Flat-footed every round and increasing the chance of everyone hitting more.

I played a lot of envoy, it was the class that got me the most interested due to the type of characters that I like and supportive playstyle, but I was thoroughly disappointed with the class' performance, specially because we were played Dead Suns AP, which is the developer's idea of baseline for the game.

The action economy of the class is too constricting. You also could have the options to expend RP earlier and boost it.Removing the obligation of getting Improved versions would also go a long way, specially because the class is supposed to be modular. What's the point of only having choices as character progression when most of them are not choices at all?

Also, while I get that full BAB could "limit" other types of envoys, I still stand behind it, because it would make the class more on par with others and not as good in combat as the focused ones, because they don't have the same support Solarians and Soldiers get with their paths and choices. It would just make the class more in line with what's expected of them, it doesn't have good HP, doesn't have spells, doesn't have any built-in progression and everyone else gets choices to make the same as them, so it would stand to reason that the class could use more power in it's foundation, rather than solely getting better options.

I want the class as a whole to be better, not just some builds. The operatives should be the baseline we follow, the class is OP not because it's way too strong, but because everything else is weaker. Instead of nerfing operatives, it's better to make everyone else just as good, the game would be better for it.


Lightning Raven wrote:
The operatives should be the baseline we follow, the class is OP not because it's way too strong, but because everything else is weaker.

I find also that Operatives are too strong, but not massively too strong. The difference in strength between Envoys and Operatives comes from the fact that one is subpar and the other is a bit too strong.

I also think the Envoy deserves some love. But BAB of 1, I really dislike the idea. First, Envoy is supposed to be an expert, not a fighter. And I don't find that Improved Get'Em and Clever Attack are too weak, even the opposite, in my opinion, they are among the best abilities the Envoy can get. So, increasing their efficiency is making the other Envoy Improvisations too ridiculous in comparison.


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When did this topic turn into the envoy bash-and-defend arena?


SuperBidi wrote:
Lightning Raven wrote:
The operatives should be the baseline we follow, the class is OP not because it's way too strong, but because everything else is weaker.

I find also that Operatives are too strong, but not massively too strong. The difference in strength between Envoys and Operatives comes from the fact that one is subpar and the other is a bit too strong.

I also think the Envoy deserves some love. But BAB of 1, I really dislike the idea. First, Envoy is supposed to be an expert, not a fighter. And I don't find that Improved Get'Em and Clever Attack are too weak, even the opposite, in my opinion, they are among the best abilities the Envoy can get. So, increasing their efficiency is making the other Envoy Improvisations too ridiculous in comparison.

Get'em and Clever Feint are the best options by far, I just don't like that. They're nice abilities, but the class could use more. Get'em and Clever Feint both constrict the action economy way too much, instead of being something you could use to enhance your party. It less of a buff and more of a constant sink of your actions to slightly improve everyone else's, Hurry is a great example of this paradigm, it's okay to sink your actions to significantly help your teammates, but being forced to get'em/clever feint every round just because you have nothing else to contribute really sucks.


The Ragi wrote:
When did this topic turn into the envoy bash-and-defend arena?

That was my fault. Sorry. Just couldn't miss the opportunity to express my opinion in the official forums in a post that probably will attract a little bit of attention from Paizo staff, even if they're not active here.


No, I don't think you're the one to blame. People have talked about the Envoy and it's shortcomings before you came along, Lightning Raven. I for one, wouldn't mind more spells.

Acquisitives

SuperBidi wrote:


Anyway, we are on the same side, I also want to play other types of Envoy than the weapon one. But, currently, the limitation at once per short rest is killing the healing Envoy.
Do you have Quick Inspiring Boost with your Envoy?

The penalty to Stamina heal on Quick Inspiring Boost is what prevents me from getting it. If it were on a separate "per 10-minute rest" track from regular Inspiring Boost it would be different, but I try to wait for the correct time to give my heals out so that the target gets the most bang for my buck. As a DocVoy, I also can reliably hit the DC 20/25 Medicine check to Treat Deadly Wounds, which is a bit harder for Operatives with Medicine.

Most of my turns involve determining if the Solarian needs a flanking buddy. If so, I move to the correct space and then either Improved Get 'Em! or Clever Feint as needed (more likely Improved Get 'Em! since it lets me attack as well; I will get Clever Attack at 8th and then I'll have more options). Since I also have Coordinated Shot, me standing next to an enemy can mean up to a +5 for ranged attacks against them, or +6 for my flanking buddy's melee.

I have a friend who has quite an excellent SRO Skyfire Centurion Envoy who gives huge bonuses with Harrying Fire.


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Doctor Zorkfeld wrote:
Most of my turns involve determining if the Solarian needs a flanking buddy. If so, I move to the correct space and then either Improved Get 'Em! or Clever Feint as needed (more likely Improved Get 'Em! since it lets me attack as well; I will get Clever Attack at 8th and then I'll have more options). Since I also have Coordinated Shot, me standing next to an enemy can mean up to a +5 for ranged attacks against them, or +6 for my flanking buddy's melee.

Having Improved Get'Em and Clever Feint running at the same time is quite improbable. So, I'll stay at +4/+3. But I must admit I hadn't thought about Coordinated Shot, and it's true that it adds quite some punch. You can also add a Menacing Fusion to your weapon, so you can give flanking bonuses to all melee fighters if you hit.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It is kind of odd that the aristocrat of Pathfinder has full base attack bonus, but the envoy of Starfinder does not.

You'd think that's where the majority of the galaxies envoys evolved from.


Ravingdork wrote:

It is kind of odd that the aristocrat of Pathfinder has full base attack bonus, but the envoy of Starfinder does not.

You'd think that's where the majority of the galaxies envoys evolved from.

I think the envoy could do fine with Full-Bab and it still wouldn't step on the combat-focused classes' toes. I get it that spellcasters and the operatives get the 3/4, along with half of the mechanic class, but for one such as the envoy, it should be getting way more into its chassis than it currently have available. It doesn't get spells, no leveling features, skill monkey outclassed by the other skill monkey that also performs quite well into combat (in fact, according to some players, seems like the Operatives are king in almost every field up until 11th level). The class does have some things that are unique, but for every unique thing, they either are shafted in the action economy or the option is highly situational and even worse, even the most situational aren't even worth it when they do come up.

Acquisitives

Lightning Raven wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

It is kind of odd that the aristocrat of Pathfinder has full base attack bonus, but the envoy of Starfinder does not.

You'd think that's where the majority of the galaxies envoys evolved from.

I think the envoy could do fine with Full-Bab and it still wouldn't step on the combat-focused classes' toes. I get it that spellcasters and the operatives get the 3/4, along with half of the mechanic class, but for one such as the envoy, it should be getting way more into its chassis than it currently have available. It doesn't get spells, no leveling features, skill monkey outclassed by the other skill monkey that also performs quite well into combat (in fact, according to some players, seems like the Operatives are king in almost every field up until 11th level). The class does have some things that are unique, but for every unique thing, they either are shafted in the action economy or the option is highly situational and even worse, even the most situational aren't even worth it when they do come up.

I find that a lot of Operative players don't really understand Trick Attack very well. It's a Full Action; you can't draw a weapon when you do the move, or do a guarded step, and you can't take swift actions, either. So their action economy, if played correctly, is a little more complex than some folks make it out to be. Also the trick is by no means a guarantee until 7th level, and Clever Feint, if done by a competent Envoy, is a lot more likely to apply than a Debilitating Trick (between Convincing Liar and a Bluff Expertise die, I can count on one hand the number of failed Clever Feints I've rolled).

SuperBidi wrote:
Having Improved Get'Em and Clever Feint running at the same time is quite improbable. So, I'll stay at +4/+3. But I must admit I hadn't thought about Coordinated Shot, and it's true that it adds quite some punch. You can also add a Menacing Fusion to your weapon, so you can give flanking bonuses to all melee fighters if you hit.

Good idea on the fusion.

Honestly, when the Solarian has a different flanking buddy, I have very little that I need to do other than Get 'Em!/Clever Feint. So I find it's actually pretty likely to happen. If he does need a flanking buddy I can move and sometimes remain flanking in subsequent rounds to dispense the huge bonuses. Since I almost never do direct damage, most enemies find themselves more likely to attack someone else.


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Doctor Zorkfeld wrote:
Honestly, when the Solarian has a different flanking buddy, I have very little that I need to do other than Get 'Em!/Clever Feint. So I find it's actually pretty likely to happen. If he does need a flanking buddy I can move and sometimes remain flanking in subsequent rounds to dispense the huge bonuses. Since I almost never do direct damage, most enemies find themselves more likely to attack someone else.

In fact, you convinced me to give it a try. When my Envoy hit level 4, I was quite disappointed. So, I haven't played him for some time. But I want to try your build. I'm also thinking in taking Heavy Armor Proficiency and go in front line right from the start. So, enemies come to me and give the Coordinated Shot advantage to my range buddies, and I can just go Get'Em + Clever Feint and get to this +5 bonus (when I'll be level 6).

Thanks for your help ;)


Ravingdork wrote:

It is kind of odd that the aristocrat of Pathfinder has full base attack bonus, but the envoy of Starfinder does not.

You'd think that's where the majority of the galaxies envoys evolved from.

Much less call to do your own fighting since the invention of the credit card


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:


Much less call to do your own fighting since the invention of the credit card

This actually tracks with our own modern era. Once upon a time, being an elite soldier meant you came from a wealthy family and "gentlemanly skills" included archery and swordplay. Since the rich have moved into the boardroom, swordfights and duels have mattered less.


Another thing for Solarions I want is new solar manifestations.


A release date :P

Aside from that, how about 3 races? We're getting 3 new classes, thus 3 iconic NPCs, thus... 3 new races, or 3 uncommon races becoming mainstream?


Albatoonoe wrote:
Another thing for Solarions I want is new solar manifestations.

Agreed, or at least something playing with the subclass mechanics.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I want COM pawns that would have more race/class varieties especially for the non-CRB Pact Worlds races like Ryphorians, Verthani, Sarcesian, etc etc.

Even more than that I would like to see Hylki (Red Humans of Akiton) as an alternate race option for Humans and also get Red Human pawns in a possible COM pawns release.


The cynic in me mostly expects a big power creep with the new classes and that they together with shields break the math for monster attack bonus.


Ixal wrote:
The cynic in me mostly expects a big power creep with the new classes and that they together with shields break the math for monster attack bonus.

My thought on shields is more along the lines of the developers expecting PCs to use cover more than they generally do, so it's more of filling in that gap in AC.


Uchuujin wrote:
Ixal wrote:
The cynic in me mostly expects a big power creep with the new classes and that they together with shields break the math for monster attack bonus.
My thought on shields is more along the lines of the developers expecting PCs to use cover more than they generally do, so it's more of filling in that gap in AC.

I am not so sure. Especially when you read the playtest reports for the Vanguard you often get the impression that Shield + Dex means that even boss level monster only hit on 17+.

The only real question for me is if the base classes will also receive a powerup or if the new classes will be OP compared to them.

Imo Starfinder is not complex enough to have much room for many options that are balanced with each other. The only way to add more content is either to make it better than the options in the core book or to make combinations which are better than what multiclassing allows (so 3/4 from both classes).


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Uchuujin wrote:
Ixal wrote:
The cynic in me mostly expects a big power creep with the new classes and that they together with shields break the math for monster attack bonus.
My thought on shields is more along the lines of the developers expecting PCs to use cover more than they generally do, so it's more of filling in that gap in AC.

While I agree that there are probably far too many players refusing to use cover, I think the better solution is to keep killing off PCs until they learn their lesson. Eventually, they will learn that the solution to all problems is not "stand in the open, do full attack".

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