You are fighting a mythic enemy. I may have the mechanics wrong, but just spending a mythic point to complete an action means that in addition to the proficiency boost, you are getting to roll twice and take the highest. At lower levels, this is going to make spell attack rolls destroy your saving throw spells for damage per spell as a mythic caster. Even at the highest level, getting that reroll and the +2 over your regular legendary proficiency is going to be huge, especially as you will still have an action left over/can't use sure strike. So if it is really important to you to do damage on a miss, then cast Horizon Thunder Sphere with 3 actions.
The thing is, your save spells won't be doing anything on a successful save either, so the numbers are really going to favor spell attack roll spells for use with mythic spell casting generally, and especially against resilient enemies. This feels pretty intentional with the design of the mythic system: As a mythic character, it is those moments when the dice are in your hand that you get to really do your most awesome stuff.
More so than ever, it is going to be important for more spell attack roll spells to make their way back into remastered content/get new ones. They will still require a lot of tactical manipulation to shine for regular casters in non-mythic games, so I get not wanting too many of them in the core rule books, misleading newer players into trying to cast them all the time, but mythic games are going to want more of them back in the game, especially flexible cool ones like Horizon Thunder Sphere.
Nope. First; the Mythic Casting ability that lets you cast a spell at mythic proficiency is a 1 action spellshape, so no 3 action HTS. Second; It is not an addition to rewrite fate, you don't get a reroll, you make the initial roll at mythic proficiency. If you want a reroll, well, have some sort of fortune effect. But it's not going to be rewrite fate or a hero point, because the former doesn't do attack rolls and you don't get the latter anymore. And it's not going to be sure strike, because as I said, it's a 1 action spellshape to do this, so have fun with the 1 action you have left if you cast that.
Spell Attacks are going to be important, sure, but casters still got shafted *hard* with how this is all written right now.
Oh, also, it's a level 10 feat, so there won't be any of this at "low levels"
Honestly it really feels like casters got shafted *hard* with the mythic rules, and they already were suffering. It's a huge overcorrection from 1e and at this point it feels like it's personal from the design team.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the previous level 26-30 creatures were re-balanced to be level 21-25 but with many new Mythic abilities put onto them. Their increased threat level would still exist, but it'd exist under the framework on the PF2E system instead of what they were in PF1E.
Yeah as someone who wanted 2e mythic to have 26-30 foes i'm kinda waiting to see what the if "level 21-25 mythics" truly feel like equivalent or not :O (because it does feel kinda weird if CR 26 demon lord would be level 21 mythic in 2e and lose in fight to CR 25 Treerazer who is still level 25 in 2e)
(and if CR 26-30 ALL are level 25 mythic.. Well that its own source of confusion)
I'm just surprised because canon products refer to level 26+ creatures. For instance, Osoyo the Blackfrost Whale is explicitly level 27
This is why I'm worried. They've kept most things level equal to their old CR intentionally, and there have been a couple of explicit examples of things in that range that were stated to be the appropriate level and just weren't given statblocks because they're too much (the Lantern King being 29 is another example).
So if that's the route they're going, they're retconning things, but I don't think that makes sense and I doubt it's what they're doing. But from what we have seen, mythic isn't going to let us fight those creatures either, which is a failure. I'm just hoping I'm wrong, and glad I've got Sparking Zero and Metaphor to keep me distracted until I can read the rules myself with context.
Honestly I'm kind of worried. I loved 1e mythic even though it was a broken mess that laughed at the idea of balance, but I always thought 2e had the perfect way to implement mythic as 1e advertised. A tier being roughly equal to half a level would be incredibly easy to implement in 2e without breaking the fundamental math.
This makes me worried that it's going to make nobody happy. The people who don't want mythic to break things are going to be upset at (at low levels) a huge power boost, even if it's on a limited resource, and the people like me who want mythic to be a strong power boost aren't going to get that, because sure, going from a +14 to a +20 or so is going to be great for letting a level 10 get a hit in on something that's level 16 or so...but it's not going to do anything for the level 20s who are trying to take down demigods to go from a +28 to a +30 against something that's level 28, even if it was a passive, always on resource. As a limited pool it doesn't mean you can *beat* demigods, just that you can maybe get a lucky hit in sometimes.
I'm still looking forward to it, I'm just...worried.
As someone who enjoys playing tieflings, I would be pissed if my GM ever forced an unwanted race change on me for any reason without even talking to me first. If you have problems with tieflings then you sort it out. They're a known race, they're not even rare among the Crusaders and are especially common in the Worldwound. This feels more like you're overplaying a universal racism that doesn't exist than anything else.
And this is ESPECIALLY true in Wrath of the Righteous.
If you talk to the players and they're fine with it, sure, have Ragathiel "purify" them, despite him being half devil and that being totally against his nature as he's more likely to inspire them to use their innate powers for good, but if my GMs forces that on me without warning I'd drop the game. I don't enjoy playing humans.
So there really is quite little about him. Interesting. Well, it'll give more weight to the argument I'll make IC then!
(Essentially the PC in question is rather...violent and thinks people can't be redeemed without being made to suffer for it. I'm going to put forward the argument that Neshen's teachings aren't to inflict pain upon others, but more literally Christ-like and about enduring pain for the sake of others. You don't lash the evil out of the necromancer, you lash yourself to repent not only for your own failings, but to beg forgiveness for the necromancer!)
We've taken some steps to correct problematic elements of the lashunta for Starfinder.
That's actually pretty disappointing if you mean to say that you've removed the sexual dimorphism. As Illorin Lorati said above, it was one race among hundreds, having the option opens possibilities, and having those options is a good thing, especially given that they are an alien, non-human species that has no bearing on real life. The fact that some people find that idea offensive is, frankly, their problem.
Yeah, that's pretty much entirely your GM's doing. Baphomet has, like, nil sexual content related to him. All the sex stuff is tied up with Nocticula and the Midnight Isles and even that's coy, just mentioning being able to "spend the night" or "find other ways to entertain".
If it was Nocticula's brother whose name I won't attempt to spell, then maybe, but he's not relevant to the AP. Paizo writes for PG-13, not R or X. That's not any different in Wrath of the Righteous.
So, Favored Prestige is needed for Prestigious Caster, but what exactly does it *do*? Is it just "You get a favored class bonus (+1 HP or +1 skill point per level) in your PrC or is it something that's actually worth a feat?
All the ones *except* for the one in Kenabres do. The Kenabres one is damaged to a non-functional state in the opening of WotR leaving a "hole" in the Wardstone Barrier. The other stones remain functional for a day or 3. At the end of chapter 1 of WotR when the PCs destroy the Wardstone fragment and become Mythic, *all* the Wardstones lose their power and the barrier vanishes entirely.
2: No, they're artifacts, variant artifacts are extremely rarely published. You could make your own for a game, but otherwise you're out of luck.
3: Depends. Have you read their effects? If you keep them close enough together they make a barrier, if they aren't close enough it's just a large Forbidden radius, not a barrier. Aside from that the issue is that they're *giant stones* and would be extremely difficult to move.
Didn't mean to bother you and I'm not the type to say I need all of what I want right now. I'm adult enough to realize you need to cater to all your fans. And I know Wrath of the Righteous had it's detractors ubt hey I really disliked Iron Gods. I just loved the Dungeon magazine method wear you managed to get to 20th level and challenge a well known great foe known in old game lore like Demogorgon. I guess I just like the idea that you might make an adventure path some time where mephistopheles or even a kyton demagogue gets his comeuppance. Sorry didn't mean to be a downer hell I'll keep my subscription even through said plotlines that bore me. I have Iron Gods after all. And have subscribed since the beginning. So don't take my statements as anything negative. Just one fans input.
No worries! I'm just a bit reflexively thin-skinned when it comes to Mythic Adventures. I'm actually VERY proud of Wrath of the Righteous—it's a storyline I'd been aching to tell more or less from day one of Pathfinder once we decided there was a Worldwound, and it's just really soul-cripplingly frustrating and depressing that some folks have latched onto it as a failure due to the way the Mythic Rules and high-level play interacted when I put so much work into the AP to make it memorable. It just ended up being memorable for a lot of the wrong reasons, and that overshadows what I feel is one of the better storylines we've done in the line.
Ah well. Sorry if it felt like I was snapping at you, cause I wasn't. :-)
If it makes you feel better JJ, WotR is my favorite AP. My group just started Demon's Heresy, my Nocticulan Heretic just scryed Arueshalae's location and would be on her way to rescue her if not for the fact that her adoptive mother, Ayavah, just showed up having renounced their Cult of the Redeemer Queen for my PC who just took divine source.
I can't wait to meet a certain demon lord. Oh, and I have Touched by Divinity (Nocticula) so that's going to be a fun encounter.
Sure, mythic isn't really all that well balanced, but that just means more work for the GM to amp up the power of the real enemies!
The Worldwound is connected to Deskari's domain, the Rasping Rifts, correct? Where does the Moonscar connect to? Would my assumption of The Midnight Isles be correct, given the prominence of succubi and the local leader's loyalty to Nocticula?
Similarly to the above: mythic empower deals +75%, while archmage ability channel deals +50%
1) does mean an ability deals +125% (in your opinion, which is in no way binding, and should not be used in rules arguments here or with other people, but purely as one GM to me, another) for a total of 225%?
2) why or why not?
Thanks!
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks for all your answers! You... are a busy guy! We appreciate you taking so much time for your thread, James!
You do realize that "Mythic Empower" is 3rd party and pretty badly written, right?
Also JJ tries to avoid commenting on rules issues, take this to the 3rd party/house rules boards.
Edit, forgot to include my question!
Sir Dinosaur, when a character starts granting spells to followers via the mythic ability Divine Source, should they pick a favored weapon to grant their clerics? Or is that limited to when something becomes a demigod?
What are the benefits of worshiping a quasideity PC over something more established?
Hey James, Abyssal Realms are supposed to range from roughly the size of continents to entire planets in scale, aren't they? Why does Nocticula, the most powerful demon lord who isn't an outright deity, only have a realm about the a quarter the size of Australia?
I can scarcely believe I'm asking this but, do catfolk have any particular feelings or taboos regarding nudity? I've got a player who's playing a catfolk urban barbarian, and she feels it'd be fun to show off her character's wild, impetuous spirit by going around topless (for the record, the other players have no problem with this, but I'm trying to talk her into toning it down).
Actually now that it's been brought up, I'm curious
What cultures don't have a nudity taboo? And for those that do, what's the source behind it? (Or is it as simple as "because the real world does?")
Leading off the Cheliax questions, for the countries that have slavery, are there legal requirements for how slaves are treated and how they can be used? Or are they just property that can be (ab)used at the owner's whim with no legal repercussion?
Name: Roland Brighteye
Race: Angel-Blooded Aasimar
Classes/levels: Warlord 5/Bladelord 2//Champion 1
Adventure: The Sword of Valor
Location: Southbank, Outer Drezen
Catalyst: Die Hard and pissing off a Chimera
The Gory Details:
Spoiler:
The party had been absolutely dominating the entirety of the chapter. We never even did mass battles, partly because they don't work in a play by post, partly because we didn't need to as our wizard could wipe out two hundred tieflings with a handful of fireballs.
So when the revamped Soltengrebbe showed up to ambush us in a supply raid, rebuilt from the ground up and now a CR 12 beastie with maximum health and 3 "lives", one for each of its heads, there was an epic battle that, for the first time in a long time, was properly challenging. The Path of War characters had certain auras though, and while Roland was dishing out tons of damage (he did enough on round 1 to have almost 1 rounded the default Soltengrebbe), he was also making the chimera very angry. He was brought below 0 HP twice in the fight, being healed up by our Life Oracle the first time, but both times he refused to stay down, as the other Warlord had an aura that gave every ally around him Die Hard. Roland thought he could end the chimera with one more mighty swing, and he did take its 2nd of 3 lives, but it lived, Roland was in the negatives, and the dragon head survived. With one last roar, now that its breath had recharged, Roland became a frozen fixture of the battlefield moments before Soltengrebbe met his end.
The lycanthrope rules were VERY different in 3.5. In Pathfinder, lycanthropes are mostly playable. In 3.5, they came with absurdly high level adjustments but gave massive stat boosts, effectively adding the strength of the creature to your base.
My group finally made it to the Shayliss encounter near the end of the second session (it's been slow going) and it went about as well as could be expected for the player who was involved.
Talon, the illegitimate (by Iomedae no less, it's a mythic game, I told them to go over the top with their backgrounds since they were starting mythic) son of the good Sheriff Hemlock was deputized by his father after the raid because there wasn't time to properly induct him into the Watch with the pressing matter of the goblins, but Hemlock needed someone to teach the paladin who helped stop the raid about a watchman's duties, as she had shown interest in joining the garrison herself, but no watchmen were free with their double shifts and patrols. Trusting his son, Hemlock left him and the potential recruit to patrol the town and handle minor disputes so the Watch could concentrate more on preparing for further goblin raids, and it was not long into the day that our dear Shayliss spotted the rough looking Talon who she'd known all her life, but never had much to do with. With his recent heroics and potential for taking over as sheriff after Hemlock retires though, he's become much more interesting to our sultry little minx.
Seeing him with only the cuter of the pair of strangers who helped in fighting back the goblin raid, Shayliss took her chance and approached bravely. Spreading lies of rats in her father's store's basement and mentioning that Ven was currently away, the vixen led the suspicious ranger away, while the paladin chuckled to herself and knowingly let him go.
Once in the cellar and at the cot, seeing Shayliss' clothes tossed carelessly to the floor, Talon followed suit, tossing his chainmail to the ground and pulling her onto the cot. Before things could progress much further however, both heard the sound of the door to the basement being opened. Scrambling to figure out what to do, Shayliss urgently whispers for him to hide while she herself panics and ducks beneath the covers. Rolling well, he decides to jump into an empty barrel, narrowly managing to avoid being heard, but unfortunately managing to draw Vinder's attention. Advancing into his own cellar, the first thing the store owner spotted was his younger daughter, ineptly hiding on a cot, and before he could ask what happened, he noticed her clothes, and someone else's armor lying on the floor. Immediately realizing what must be going on, Ven flies into a rage and demands to know who is with her, and some failed bluffing on Shayliss' part about it being her armor leads him to realize that his suspicions are right but she won't say who he was or where he was.
Realizing he won't get anywhere like this, Ven decides to think tactically. Gathering up all of Talon's dropped gear, including his chainshirt and composite bow, he returns to the front of his store to display them prominently behind the counter. Not knowing what to do, Shayliss quickly gets dressed and Talon asks her to bring him something to wear. She warns that her father won't let her back down here for a while, but she'll try. 10 minutes later, with no sign of Shayliss, Talon who is now wearing the sheet on the cot like a toga, comes up with an idea.
Knocking over a shelf of goods, he takes up a position near the base of the stairs where he can't be seen, and when Ven comes barreling down to see what happened Talon blinds him with the sheets, using them like a makeshift net and rushes upstairs, once again in the nude, while Vinder is blinded. Spotting his stuff, he delays in leaving and grabs his gear, making it out the door just as the enraged father makes it up the stairs to spot him.
Not trusting that he isn't about to be pummeled, Talon streaks across half a block, his armor and bow in his arms with his shortsword exposed, which caused some cheers from some of the less conservative locals and a sigh from the paladin who happened to be in the area.
At Talon's claim that it was a pretty normal day for him, the paladin seriously begins to rethink joining the Watch, Shayliss plots ways to finish what she started, and her father is going to refuse dealings with the entire Watch when he learns that Talon was deputized just before this scandal.
Well I can't promise it will work, but I'm going to be starting up a Mythic-ish RotRL for my friends at the end of the month.
The current plan is to start them off at mythic tier 1 and on either the medium or slow XP track. They'll probably have 1 Greater Trial per chapter (possibly the completion of the chapter) which means they'd end up at about Tier 7. In order to combat their increased strength I plan to do a couple of things:
Increase the size of group encounters. 4 goblins? Now 6 goblins. 3 level 4 rogues? Now 4 level 4 rogues.
Add Mythic Tiers to appropriate encounters. A certain angry cleric and The Skinsaw Man, for example. Not sure if X is going to need it, and given that Karzoug is explicitly not Mythic, I was going to find another way to beef him up.
More powerful foes. Not every major enemy should be mythic, but some could be generally more powerful. Extra class levels, older age category (Oh look, instead of 1 Adult Blue, Karzoug now has 2 Mature Adult Blues), templates, and of course, anything that has a name is getting bumped up to 25pb, with anything that previously had 25 probably getting bumped up to 30.
I'll let you know how this goes, my group tends to get through content pretty fast (they're getting better at RP, but they're still built for combat), but we can only ever play every other weekend, so it'll be a while before we make a sizable dent into the campaign. If anyone has any advice, suggestions, or questions though, just let me know.
