The Shopkeeper's Daughter

Rise of the Runelords

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In the campaign I just started running, a Gnome Sorcerer was the PC who took the Shayliss bait. He was all to happy to take her offer of some lovin'.

Here's where it got funny. When Shayliss's father Vin walked in to find a small Gnome with red hair on top of his daughter, the Gnome successfully cast a Daze spell so that he could "finish'. It only took a minute and then he successfully managed to convince Vin that he was doing his daughter a favour and it was for her own good.

The little bugger also managed to seduce Savah gaining a 50% discount while he was at it.

Wrapped up my last session with this encounter; I was reeeally worried about it being too awkward for my party, but everything turned out fine. From our perspective, at least.

Shayliss's target was a half-elf barbarian with a big ego and a habit for wearing armor similar to this; he didn't have the highest Charisma score in the party, but I figured that all of the other factors would more than compensate in her eyes. She approached him while the party was having lunch at the Rusty Dragon and rolled a natural 20 on her Bluff check. He was very eager to help with the rat problem, but a couple of the other PCs wanted to come too, so she gave up. Egged on by the party's alchemist (who had an idea of what was going on), our hero went after her.

Cut to the barbarian and the shopkeeper's daughter in the basement, both very disappointed and embarrassed. You see, his primary interests are (1) fighting and (2) men. She would have let him go on his way, but then Ven came down to see his daughter hurriedly dressing herself and a strange man trying to hide behind the shelves. One failed Diplomacy check later and the poor guy's fleeing the wrath of a protective father who doesn't buy his (completely true) excuses.

The rest of the party was just amused by their companion's obliviousness, but when the -2 Diplomacy penalty kicks in they'll have to find some way to clear things up. We don't really have a designated "face" yet, but the monk is friends with Hemlock, and the Sheriff's word might be enough to put this to rest.

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I was worried about this encounter from day 1, as all six of my players are female and I was worried that none of them would bite. As it turned out two of them played male characters, one of them (the cleric of Torag) as the foolishly heroic type- he bought her lies wholesale but wanted nothing to do with her when her true purpose was revealed. Unfortunately of course daddy was coming down the stairs at that point, and a single max-damage critical hit dropped poor Haern in one swing.

As it happened, the OTHER male character in the group, Harold the half-orc fighter, was following up on the rumor that you could get orcish rotgut from Vinder if you knew what to ask for, and happened into the shop at the same time the fight was going on downstairs. He convinced Solsta Vinder (who was unaware of what was going on downstairs) to take him down to the private "wine cellar" and once there he managed to talk the Vinders into letting him drag Haern away from the scene.

Now, even a half-orc fighter will have a little trouble wrangling the body of an unconscious, fully-armored cleric up the stairs and through the streets. As it happened, part of the reason that poor Haern was alone to be singled out at the time was that most of the rest of the party was out on the town with Aldern Foxglove. They were currently at the Hagfish trying the Hagfish Challenge. When I checked the map, I realized the Hagfish was literally right across the street from the General Store, so that meant EVERYONE got to enjoy Haern's humiliation. They ended the evening early and everyone dragged him around the corner to the Sandpoint Theater in the hopes that either Cyrdak or Jasper would be there and able to throw some healing on him and get the party's only healer back to consciousness.

Cyrdak was there, fortunately. Unfortunately, that also meant he got to hear the story, and he's a bard with (Comedy) as one of his primary Perform skills.

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The Rogue in my group read through her lies without rolling and turned her advances down, by saying "Yeah, right, there are rats in the basement... and I'm the king of Varisia... I'm sorry young girl, but I'm a hero: i don't dig peasant girls...".
What a d**k!! :-D

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Have her start spreading rumors that he's a deviant of some sort. That'll get his goat! ;)

Nah, too late, they're at mountain hook right now... :)

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My rogue player let himself be led away by beautiful Shayliss and they descended into the basement.
He didn't spot any rats (Perception ~25) and Shayliss and him started making out.
He did fail the Perception-Check to notice her father, though (glorious moment!) and was manhandled and steered clear of her by her father who accused him of assaulting his poor, innocent daughter.
Now, being the Mr. Charming of my group, the rogue started his diversion and managed to fabricate fake rat poo (Sleight of Hand-Check) and let it drop on the ground, finally convincing Vim Vender that there are indeed rats in the cellar and that Shayliss having opened her dress and everything was just to be sure no rats had climbed down her, um, back...
So her father led her upstairs, apologizing for not believing her, asking the rogue to guard the stairs against any rats.
Vim went for his hatchet to hunt down the rats with this young, fine fellow--and a hero of Sandpoint, no less--but somehow they ended up savoring some of his liquors...

Shayliss is quite angry with the rogue for spending effectively more time with her father than with her. He is now trying to date her but has been turned down by her so far.
Let's see how many visits at the Pixie's Kitten are necessary to either have his favorite at the Kitten (Patricia) or Shayliss make a scene... *evil grin*


One of my players is an itinerant Chelish noble trying to pretend he isn't a noble and failing at it (deliberately; it's part of his concept). So Shayliss zeroed in on him pretty fast. Lucky so-and-so made the perception check and denied me the fun of the confrontation, although there was some excellent RP involved. So I've decided that Shayliss is still interested, and he's playing the "young noble sowing wild oats" routine.

So I figure a shotgun wedding is going to be in order soon. Just to see what happens. :D

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

You know, sometimes we allow the dice to dictate events too much. I mean, the thief using a diplomacy check to convince the dad he was looking for rats down her dress? Riiiight. This is a situation ripe for roleplaying. But even so... I cannot see a player able to convince an angry father that he was looking for rats down her dress.

Tangent101 wrote:
You know, sometimes we allow the dice to dictate events too much. I mean, the thief using a diplomacy check to convince the dad he was looking for rats down her dress? Riiiight. This is a situation ripe for roleplaying. But even so... I cannot see a player able to convince an angry father that he was looking for rats down her dress.

It sounds like it was pretty funny. What's wrong with that?

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Oh, it was. But even so... the dice should help guide things, yes. But I'd have rewarded a significant penalty to that roll just for the "rats climbed in her dress" bit. If this happened in a book, the situation would throw me out of the book with my suspension of disbelief broken.

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Tangent101 wrote:
Oh, it was. But even so... the dice should help guide things, yes. But I'd have rewarded a significant penalty to that roll just for the "rats climbed in her dress" bit. If this happened in a book, the situation would throw me out of the book with my suspension of disbelief broken.

True, but this isn't a book, it's an RPG. There's metahumor that depends on the dynamic of the players, in addition to the dynamic of the characters.

What I'm saying is we don't know if that was about the dice--it could be about the fact that it had everyone rolling on the floor with laughter, or that it was reacted to by stunned disbelief by everyone except the player trying it, which was amusing enough to the GM to let it fly. Or any number of other things.

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Oh, it was. But even so... the dice should help guide things, yes.

That's how it was. Sorry, if I didn't make that any clearer; he had the ideas, roleplayed it (even accused her father of putting her in such a dangerous situation with all these rats down there) and the dice spoke in his favor, too (the rolls after his failed Perception-Check, anyways).


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

So, a number of months ago the party Ranger (played by a great guy who is just a tad on the introverted side), Zandu, decided to help the shopkeeper's daughter and was quite willing to go along with what she actually had in mind. Needless to say he was caught in a compromising situation but managed to extricate himself before it came to blows.

He was subsequently banned from the Sandpoint General Store, nor were his companions welcome back. Shayliss, however, came to visit him at the Rusty Dragon Inn and he still proved willing. She got a footnote most of the party's trips back to town.

Well, the party JUST returned for a very brief trip to Sandpoint from Magnimar as a slight detour before heading to Fort Rannick. The party dropped gear at the inn and went their separate ways with the exception of Zandu who was welcomed with exuberant hugs and kisses from Shayliss which very quickly turned to tears and hiccupping speech. Zandu's player was expecting a new adventure hook to follow... what he got instead was...

Shayliss: <insert random sobs, etc..> "I'm late, Zandu, and if I don't get my moonblood soon, mother will start to suspect."
Zandu's player: Stammer, stutter, fluster...
Rest of the players: <Hysteria, laughter, grins, and comments about evil GMs>

It took much prompting from yours truly, and a lot of OOC peer pressure from the rest of the players (easily 10 minutes or more of him trying to figure another way out, then another 5 before agreeing they needed to be wed before he left for another 2-3 weeks minimum), but Zandu finally agreed to make an honest woman out of her and go seek her hand in marriage with the sour faced and ham fisted Ven Vinder.

Zandu entered the General Store and found Mrs. Vinder behind the counter who he'd never directly met before and it took a moment before she realized who he was and went to fetch Ven. Ven stood in the doorway to the side room, flexing his fists, and said, "I thought I told you that you weren't welcome here any more?"

Zandu agreed that was the case, and began a valiant effort to choose, in character, the right words to profess his love for Shayliss and ask for her hand in marriage. Now, he didn't do too bad on his own, but not being a party "talker" he wanted to rely on his Diplomacy check to bolster his own choice of words. The die tumbled and...


The other three players were reduced to near tearful, hysterical piles of mirth and poor Zandu's awkwardness, and yup, Ven stepped forward and clocked the ranger hard. Zandu, however, did not raise his hands and did nothing to harm master Vinder despite new blows flying in each following round.

After three rounds, a resoundingly successful Fort check to retain his wits from the pummeling, Zandu once again (quite well in character) tried to profess his intent to wed Shayliss as well as his love for her. Still not confident with his roleplay of the moment, Diplomacy was once again the go to move. A new and different die altogether tumbled and...


<by now, and all throughout the preceeding, the peanut gallery was in full force making it difficult to keep the scene on track. They were also in tears and gasping with laughter. (example: One of them in mocking hillbilly patois, "I knocked up yer daughter, Ven.")>

More pummeling ensued with no attempts at defense and black-eyed, split-lipped, and bloody-nosed Zandu once again made a fantastic fortitude check to remain conscious. Once more he tried to plead his case between fist blows, and he finally found the right words (again, well done in character, and this might have gone far more smoothly if he hadn't rolled to begin with, lol)and with a final Diplomacy check threw a...


Realizing the ranger's intent, and knowing the growing reputation of his daughter, Ven finally "heard" what was being said. In a bid to save face, before hitting Zandu again, he muttered "hit me, boy". Zandu's player blinked and said, "what?" So I repeated as Ven, "Hit Me!" and then slugged Zandu again.

They each slugged one another two more times, Zandu again made his check to remain conscious, and Vens fortitude check was a...


Ven was knocked off of Zandu and thunked down with his back to a shelf as he shook his head and wiped blood from his mouth. Ven said something along the lines of, "Well, it's good to know you have a little fire in you, lad." And proceeded to set the terms of the wedding. As a hero of Sandpoint, Zandu would foot the bill for the wedding and there would be no dowry. He would not take Shayliss away to "for'n parts" but their home would instead remain here in Sandpoint.

The party thus delayed their departure to the East for a week. Father Zantus performed the ceremony, Ameiko hosted the reception (as a wedding gift) to Zandu and Shayliss. Shayliss is residing at the Rusty Dragon Inn and working with Bethana to help Ameiko since she now has an estate to manage until Zandu and Shayliss's new home is built.

What I think I loved just as much as all of that as a GM, was the Dwarf Wizard, Mikel Forgehammer (one of the other PCs), and the party's resident magic item forger deciding to make and provide a pair of magic rings to use as wedding bands, the cost coming from his own pocket as a gift for the couple. He stated, "Well, he's a family patriarch now, he's starting a family. That means a lot to a dwarf and I owe him respect for that, of course the rings are a gift!"

Ultimately I think he went with a pair of Rings of Protection +1, but his initial thought was to craft a Ring of Featherfalling for Shayliss since she's expecting because, "Well, since she's pregnant, that should keep the baby from being hurt if she takes a tumble..." <more laughter from the table as a whole>

If for no other reason, that (close to an hour, all told) made going out to run a game worth every minute of prep as well as all the sessions prior.

Everthefool wrote:

That was pretty awesome.

I don't think this encounter will work as-is with my group. Not for any reason in particular - just the comfort level, the cliche of the "gold-digger targeting the tough warrior", etc. won't go over that well.

I'm thinking of mixing it up so that there are rats in the basement and Shayliss' request is completely innocent. When her father arrives, he gets the completely wrong end of the stick and goes of his head...

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So... the 'target' of Shaylis' affections was all for it at the time, but is a bit unhappy with the result of getting caught... and is trying to figure out how to make amends that don't involve commitment on his part... now has a grand plan just getting into motion to try to set her up with Aldern.

Trying to decide how evil I want to be about the outcome of that.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Sounds like you can have an added incentive of a rescue mission.

If you want to be horrific...

they find her in the room with the Skinsaw Man; he's been force-feeding her rotting human flesh and the mold from the wall. She can beg them to kill her as she can "feel" the evil growing within her, but have a simple Cure Disease fix that up. Mentally, however, she's going to be a permanent resident at Habe's...

Tangent101 wrote:

Sounds like you can have an added incentive of a rescue mission.

If you want to be horrific...

** spoiler omitted **

Assuming they don't kill everyone at Habe's.
Silver Crusade

In the game I'm GMing, the only males were a tiefling alchemist who wore a plague doctor's mask and never left the Cathedral after the attacks (Virtue point!) and a cloistered Dwarf who wielded a long-axe and constantly accused people of trying to steal his fungus. So she tried to seduce the female elven pali. The chaste paladin resisted her advances, but Shayliss rolled high on a cmb and grappled her. About this time, the urban ranger makes a knowledge local and realizes that the elf walked away with the town bike. She and the other dwarf rush after them. Vin Busts in as the elf tries to get Shayliss off of her and starts bellowing. One failed diplomacy later, he's about to pick the elf up and in bursts the two dwarfs. The long axe dwarf accused shayliss of being a "stealerofbabiesstealerofthefungusthatbringslife" and Vin charges him... provoking an AoO (A Crit) and knocking him out in one hit.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

So. How many minutes were spent afterward howling in laughter while trying to recover your composure? :)

Sometimes I think the vulnerability of players to Shayliss' scheme is if they see the picture of the redhead in the book or not. ;) I know the girl who plays the half-orc barbarian who refused Shay's attempts to lure him away said afterward "hell, if I knew she looked like THAT I'd have gone for it!" ^^;;

Silver Crusade

About 5 minutes. I was just sad their Human fighter wasn't around (he missed the session because his daughter took his car.)The Paladin was playing Naive, and she was all like: Why would another female want to kiss me? I'm so confused. I can't wait to find out her reaction to Aldern's advances.

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She came up to the party rogue while the group was having dinner at The Rusty Dragon. Half the party's reaction was "Yeah, sure, rats" while the other half were jumping all over her offering to help out. She finally left in disgust and the rogue snuck out after her.

When the party realized the rogue was gone, they started to follow but ran into the woman from "Goblin in the Closet" coming in as they were trying to go out. (Thanks for whoever mentioned doing both quests at the same time upthread. Made it real easy to delay the party trying to "help" their friend.)

So while the rest of the party dealt with the crazed closet goblin and its aftermath, Shayliss made her intentions known. The rogue's player said "I try to resist, but not that much." He made his perception check to hear Ven coming down the stairs, threw a blanket over Shayliss and then rolled a natural 20 on his Bluff check to convince Ven he was hunting rats, walking back upstairs with him while Shayliss got dressed. I'll have to decide whether Shayliss considers pursuing him.

The amusing thing was when I asked the rogue's player for the Perception check, the cleric's player immediately piped up "Whoops, here comes her dad."

The rest of the party came running up to the General Store just as the rogue was leaving because they were "worried it might be more goblins instead of rats". He made another high Bluff check to convince them "Nope, just some rats. All taken care of."

Our first session of the campaign last night.....

Zoran the Gypsy Rogue gets lured into the basement (didn't need much encouragement). Just started his dalliance with Shayliss when he hears dad coming down the stairs.

Too much delaying from the player - what gear does he have time to grab, should he grab his clothes or his rapier (with suitable double entendre jokes from the other players about him already having his rapier out....) - so dad clocks him one. Hits for maximum damage.

Zoran then grabs his sword belt and tries to tumble past dad. Rolls 1 on his Acrobatics check. Dad clocks him and again gets full damage.

Zoran crumples unconscious and dad drags him to Sheriff Hemlock demanding he be arrested for having his way with innocent little Shayliss.

Zoran wakes up in a cell. After dad storms off Hemlock tells Zoran he is locked up for his own protection. There will be no charges as everyone bar dad knows what Shayliss is really like but Zoran should lie low for a little while.

Despite being a low charisma rogue Zoran was the most suitable target for Shayliss. The other players are an even lower charisma dwarf ranger and two high charisma sisters (Oracle and Summoner). Poor old Aldern Foxglove didn't know which one to try and chat up the next day as they went boar hunting.....

When my group ran this part of the AP... I was playing a "paladin" (really a fighter that was just pretending to be a paladin so that he could get a woman to marry him). I might have called her a trollop and a slattern the first time I met her, and when she later asked me to kill rats, I denied her request because it was beneath a paladin to kill lowly vermin.

Later on, when our catfolk ranger went into the general goods store to buy arrows, she discovered he was part of my party and called out to her daddy that the catfolk ranger was trying to grope her. The ranger flipped out and took a swipe at her daddy with his claws and her dad proceded to beat him senseless.

Meanwhile, across town while this was going down, my paladin hired a bard to come with him to stand in front of the church to serenade his beloved Say Anthing style.

Good times!

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My group finally made it to the Shayliss encounter near the end of the second session (it's been slow going) and it went about as well as could be expected for the player who was involved.

Talon, the illegitimate (by Iomedae no less, it's a mythic game, I told them to go over the top with their backgrounds since they were starting mythic) son of the good Sheriff Hemlock was deputized by his father after the raid because there wasn't time to properly induct him into the Watch with the pressing matter of the goblins, but Hemlock needed someone to teach the paladin who helped stop the raid about a watchman's duties, as she had shown interest in joining the garrison herself, but no watchmen were free with their double shifts and patrols. Trusting his son, Hemlock left him and the potential recruit to patrol the town and handle minor disputes so the Watch could concentrate more on preparing for further goblin raids, and it was not long into the day that our dear Shayliss spotted the rough looking Talon who she'd known all her life, but never had much to do with. With his recent heroics and potential for taking over as sheriff after Hemlock retires though, he's become much more interesting to our sultry little minx.

Seeing him with only the cuter of the pair of strangers who helped in fighting back the goblin raid, Shayliss took her chance and approached bravely. Spreading lies of rats in her father's store's basement and mentioning that Ven was currently away, the vixen led the suspicious ranger away, while the paladin chuckled to herself and knowingly let him go.

Once in the cellar and at the cot, seeing Shayliss' clothes tossed carelessly to the floor, Talon followed suit, tossing his chainmail to the ground and pulling her onto the cot. Before things could progress much further however, both heard the sound of the door to the basement being opened. Scrambling to figure out what to do, Shayliss urgently whispers for him to hide while she herself panics and ducks beneath the covers. Rolling well, he decides to jump into an empty barrel, narrowly managing to avoid being heard, but unfortunately managing to draw Vinder's attention. Advancing into his own cellar, the first thing the store owner spotted was his younger daughter, ineptly hiding on a cot, and before he could ask what happened, he noticed her clothes, and someone else's armor lying on the floor. Immediately realizing what must be going on, Ven flies into a rage and demands to know who is with her, and some failed bluffing on Shayliss' part about it being her armor leads him to realize that his suspicions are right but she won't say who he was or where he was.

Realizing he won't get anywhere like this, Ven decides to think tactically. Gathering up all of Talon's dropped gear, including his chainshirt and composite bow, he returns to the front of his store to display them prominently behind the counter. Not knowing what to do, Shayliss quickly gets dressed and Talon asks her to bring him something to wear. She warns that her father won't let her back down here for a while, but she'll try. 10 minutes later, with no sign of Shayliss, Talon who is now wearing the sheet on the cot like a toga, comes up with an idea.

Knocking over a shelf of goods, he takes up a position near the base of the stairs where he can't be seen, and when Ven comes barreling down to see what happened Talon blinds him with the sheets, using them like a makeshift net and rushes upstairs, once again in the nude, while Vinder is blinded. Spotting his stuff, he delays in leaving and grabs his gear, making it out the door just as the enraged father makes it up the stairs to spot him.

Not trusting that he isn't about to be pummeled, Talon streaks across half a block, his armor and bow in his arms with his shortsword exposed, which caused some cheers from some of the less conservative locals and a sigh from the paladin who happened to be in the area.

At Talon's claim that it was a pretty normal day for him, the paladin seriously begins to rethink joining the Watch, Shayliss plots ways to finish what she started, and her father is going to refuse dealings with the entire Watch when he learns that Talon was deputized just before this scandal.

Sovereign Court

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In our game the daughter tried to seduce my gnome alchemist. What wound up happening is Poppi lecturing the dad about being a better father to his daughters. I rolled REALLY high in Bluff and Diplomacy.

We had two males with us but the GM thought it would be hilarious if the gnome alchemist who likes to blow things up, got into that particular scenario.

Well Hintz, the cleric of calistria was my first choice, but she turned her down...

I stand corrected, the cleric was getting plenty of attention from Aldern and so I decided that the shopkeepers daughter would place her affections with the alchemist.

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

First off, special thanks to Damascus121, ajbaker, and Butch A., all of who's accounts I plundered elements from shamelessly for my own run. Apologies for the wall of text, I am not a good enough writer to keep this short.

Shayliss's target in my run was a half-orc shadow-blooded sorcerer, who distinguished himself by doing most of the damage in a rather flashy manner when the goblins arrived. She traced him down at the Rusty Dragon several days after the attack with the familiar story of rats in the basement. Slightly hesitant and fearing some sort of trap, he grudgingly accepted going along alone. Seeing her picture helped ;-). The rest of the group was prevented from following along by the arrival of the mother from the Monster in the Closet quest, with the exception the kitsune ninja Ameiko was hiding as a worker at her tavern, who had aided the party in her true form during the fight with the goblins but that they were otherwise unaware of, and had been evesdropping while she served the heros breakfast. She tried to follow, but was delayed a bit by having to beg off work and disguise herself...

At the general store, the orc tried to convince Shayliss to stay upstairs for her safty, but she was adamant that she should show him where she saw the rat. His first perception check confirmed there was nothing behind the barrels of rotgut, and his second heard her bodice hitting the floor. He quickly followed suit and followed her to the cot.

He did NOT, however, make the perception check to hear daddy come downstairs, and the two of them were startled out of their frolic by Ven screaming "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE"

"Yes", replied the half orc without missing a beat, "it is entirely what it looks like."

Ven tore him off his daughter, and his attempts at diplomacy came just a few points short. Thanks to leaving his armor behind, Ven opened with a solid blow that left him at 0 exactly. He took his partial action to use a cantrip to ignite some nearby crates for a distraction, but Ven (Rolling a 2 on a raw wisdom check) was too mad to care, and slamed him again, -6. By this point Shayliss has gathered her clothes and is running away, and, thanks to orc ferocity, her target trys one more diplomacy check to get Ven to mind the fire while he lunged at his discarded backpack to try and find his cure potions, but alas, too late, and he passes out.

The kitsune arrives at the general store in time to hear a commotion and see a naked Shayliss running to the second floor from the basement, bundle of clothes held tight to cover herself as best she can. In the basement she finds Ven smothering a fire and the half orc bleeding out, having failed 2 stabilize checks and a hit point point away from perma-death. Having no ranks in heal herself, she instead uses diplomacy and does some fast talking to convince Ven to save the poor half orc (so he doesn't have to stand trial for murder). He grudgingly agrees, but dumps the unconcious body out on main street for all the town to see.

The kitsune covers him in her cloak as soon as Ven goes back in the shop to have a talk with Shayliss, and, desperate for a healer, figures she can probably negotiate with Cyrdak across the street in the theater. The story of what happened so far has him roaring with laughter, and he gladly agrees to help out. Upon reviving the half orc, he comments that he needs to write up a version of this as an opening performance for an upcoming play, and our naked victem cheerfully offers to play himself, seeing it as a chance to get his foot in the door at one of the regions finest establishments and make some use of his ranks in perform. Cyrdak is again reduced to sobbing laughter, and gladly accepts.

Next session will start with the two of them negotiating how the play will go. I'm interested to see if the half orc's player has the forethought to try and portray Shayliss in a good light, or if his acting career will have the entire Vinder family out for his blood...

I realize it doesn't say so in his tactics, but I always assumed Ven would be defaulting to non-lethal blows. True, he has Improved Unarmed Strike, but it feels to me like he's trying to "teach the PC a lesson" rather than outright kill them.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd agree with that, Kalshane, but then again, I can also see him furious beyond rational thought, and could accidentally kill the PC in a fit of rage. I wouldn't do that - the encounter's supposed to be lighthearted and non-lethal - but I can understand the converse approach.

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kalshane wrote:
I realize it doesn't say so in his tactics, but I always assumed Ven would be defaulting to non-lethal blows. True, he has Improved Unarmed Strike, but it feels to me like he's trying to "teach the PC a lesson" rather than outright kill them.

A perfectly reasonable interpretation. The book does call out that he will not stabilize a dying character , I believe the actual wording was that he would not "staunch a beaten foe's bleeding" which implies lethal force, so that was the way I went.

That being said, no one was actually too worried about it, everyone knew the kitsune was on the way, and I started all my players with 2 hero points so they had a little plot armor against random lvl 1 death. If he was on his last roll he could have cashed both in to auto-stabalize and go back to -1. Doing it this way also let the kitsune's PC have a moment to be awesome and get her more tied in with the known "Heros of Sandpoint", something I was having some trouble with so far, so it worked well for me. But yeah, someone completely alone, going non-leathal makes sense, no one wants to loose a character lvl 1.

I also think a PC getting beaten unconscious and dumped naked in the street by an irate father makes for a better tale than "that time my level 1 character got punched to death by a shopkeeper." :)

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kalshane wrote:

I also think a PC getting beaten unconscious and dumped naked in the street by an irate father makes for a better tale than "that time my level 1 character got punched to death by a shopkeeper." :)

I wholeheartedly agree. ^_^

Sovereign Court

Well I got the opposite result. My 1st level Orc Fighter beat the crud out of Ven despite him being many levels above him. First with his fists although took AOO's every turn as he didn't have improved unarmed strike. Seeing that punching him was opening him up to attacks my Orc grabbed a nearby 2 by 4 and proceeded to beat Ven to negative hitpoints with it. The Orc was at 0 hp by the end of the fight but Ven was sprawled on the floor dying. Fortunately a party member arrived and stabilized him. Suffice to say Sheylin as not too pleased the Orc beat her father to a pulp but it didn't change the fact that the Orc wanted her as his wife.

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Ok, this happened yesterday as I was running the adventure. For this game, we had a male human wizard (teleportation school), a deaf-mute male life oracle (my placeholder GMPC), a female human barbarian, and a female elven rogue. Wizard decided to go to the local sage's place to get info when I was going to sick Shayliss on him, and I put the oracle at the Pixie's Kitten at that time. Barbarian was with Foxglove, so here comes Shayliss after the rogue.

She approaches the rogue and asks for help with the "rats", and the rogue tries to negotiate a discount at the store. Shayliss just says that they can "negotiate payment" elsewhere. So when she finally tries the seduction attempt, the rogue says what was possibly the worst thing ever. "This is gonna cost you." Had to throw an additional 5 to the DC of the Diplomacy check for that one. Right as daddy Ven was going to show up. So there's a rogue, a half naked redhead who's now pissed, and soon to be said redhead's father in a cellar. Rogue quickly uses the "what the hell is that" distraction to leap up to the ceiling and hide.

Shayliss is telling Ven that someone attacked her and is trying to hide. Even with Ven rolling his almighty Perception check that no CR2 should ever have, he couldn't find the rogue before she got away. So the rogue gets out of there, rushes back to the Rusty Dragon, and quickly throws on a disguise for the rest of the day. Ameiko is wondering what's going on, and she laughs when the rogue explains what's happened.

Next morning, the wizard is recruited to help the rogue clear her name so she doesn't end up overcharged or jailed from this epic fail. Now the wizard's familar was a toucan, so there was a bonus on diplomacy anyhow and helped him negotiate with the still angry father. The plan was simply that the rogue will have to be Shayliss' gopher for the rest of the day. As this has been done, Shayliss comes down from her own room; and everyone has noticed that she still got somebody in her bed. Wizard goes to check her actual room, where she finds one of the town guard trying to climb out the window. With the help of the toucan, the guard falls from said window into the street sans pants. Sheriff Hemlock and a couple other guards show up after the landing caused a ruckus, and Frank (the previously unnamed guard in Shayliss' window) got pulled in for dereliction of duty after trading spots with a coworker the previous evening. This all lead to the wizard being the chaperone for Shayliss and the rogue.

After a couple tasks for the group that took them a couple places in town, they head back to the general store where Shayliss tries to seduce the rogue and the chaperone in one go. Rogue learned from her mistake and said that tag-teaming the wizard was totally on her, and the wizard gets backed into a corner. The wizard then gets tricked into revealing that... he's a virgin. The grins on the two more brazen individuals there turn positively feral. The wizard, panicking at that point, shifts out of their clutches, runs out the store, and begins a chase scene. Shayliss and the rogue look at each other and go "first to the finish wins?" and take off after the wizard.

Meanwhile, the wizard is praying to Cayden Cailean (who is more likely to tell him to turn back around) and Desna (who thinks of it as another journey) for help. Cayden's help was to put an empty mug in the middle of the road to trip him up. Wizard shifts away from it. The wizard also sent his toucan ahead to get help at the Rusty Dragon, where only the oracle was there. So the oracle now has a toucan in his face with no clue what the hell is going on. Down at the local Theater, the band is practicing some music for a later performance. Yes, it was the Benny Hill chase music. Rogue is taking to the rooftops chasing down the wizard. Shayliss is just running down the road in hot pursuit. As the wizard gets closer to the inn, he nearly runs over Ameiko were it not for his shift ability. She takes notice of what's going on and joins the chase because it could be far too amusing a tale to tell later.

So the wizard finally gets to the Rusty Dragon, ignores the continuing struggle between a toucan and a deaf-mute, rushes to his room, locks his door and bars his window. Unfortunately, his room does have a fireplace (roll with it). The rogue enters the wizard's room through the chimney, and she stalks towards her prey. Meanwhile the barbarian, who has been out on her own errands, finally returns to the inn and notices Shayliss outside the wizard's door and Ameiko nearby trying to find out what's going on. So she joins the interested parties. Wizard opens his door to run from the rogue, finds Shayliss and Ameiko, and shifts to behind Ameiko to hide. This coincidentally put him smack dab in the middle of the barbarian's chest.

Ameiko and the barbarian ask what is going on while the wizard slinks to a hiding position behind the oracle after finally recalling that toucan. Shayliss and the rogue recount what happened, whereupon Ameiko busts into laughter. This leads to a series of slights. The rogue and Shayliss try to comment that Ameiko couldn't do any better, which Ameiko initially brushes off. The twosome then insult the barbarian by saying that she's too mannish to land any man, which does seem to work in a bit. Finally, Shayliss and the rogue propose a bet with Ameiko and the barbarian. Whoever of the four gets to pop the wizard's cherry first gets 50 gold apiece from the others and a month's servitude from the losers. The latter bit is what gets Ameiko in on it. Additional terms were that they could not use magic to win themselves. All of them agree on it and depart at that point.

The wizard was let in on the bet by the rogue later on, leading to his departure from the Rusty Dragon and taking up residence at the White Stag. He wasn't safe there.

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... good choice of soundtrack: Yakety Sax is the only music truly appropriate to that series of absurdities. ;D

Our scene ended up playing out with our PC fleeing Ven (with a quick use of a Grease spell on the stairs), but was seen enough to be recognized. Our PCs were given a letter from Ven telling them they are persona non grata at his store, and have noticed that people are treating them a little differently. Consequently, they are now looking to make things right w/ Ven.

Does anyone have any good ideas as to what could be an acceptable resolution? Ven currently has been of the opinion that his innocent darling was a victim, and a solid diplomacy check has convinced him to ask around to see if she really did go to the Rusty Dragon to lure the PC away. However, I want to come up w/ a way for the PCs to earn the resoration of their status... but they are of the opinion that they are the wronged party here and shouldn't have to pay restitution in any way, that the truth should be enough.

The Numerator wrote:
However, I want to come up w/ a way for the PCs to earn the resoration of their status... but they are of the opinion that they are the wronged party here and shouldn't have to pay restitution in any way, that the truth should be enough.

Maybe, instead of restitution, after proving their innocence, Venn, at his wit's end, could beseech the heroes for a solution to reigning in his daughter. If they help out, they earn a friendship with him and a reward to boot(maybe a discount?).

Coldly turning their backs on him might instead mean that while their names have been cleared, he still can't do business with them.

And, of course, it's a good chance to have one of them accidentally agree to marry her, which opens up the possibility of future hilarity.

Sometimes it's fun to let the players lead a bit ;)

So the next night, our Sorceress sneaked away from the party, and said "we'll play this offline later this week." Away from the rest of the players, it turns out she sough out Shayless in town (I had her down at the Feedbag chumming it up w/ the local Sczarni). She bought Shayless a drink, and tried to smooth things over. Well Shayless was rocking an "unfriendly" attitude, but a couple drinks (netting a +5) and the PC rolling a natural 20 on her Diplomacy check quickly changed that unfriendly to friendly. Well, friendly can lead to... other things... and now anytime the sorceress wants a visit from Shayless she sends an order for "Traditional Shoanti Sweet Bread" to the general store, and Shayless sneaks away that night for a tryst.

Consequently, Shayless then agreed to talk to daddy, and Ven agreed to let the elven wizard (with a strength of 7) work off his debt with 2 days of manual labor: making deliveries around town and generally humiliating him. The elf took it like... well not a man, an elf I guess? In the end Ven even grew some respect for our PC, based on how well he took his medicine, and the party's reputation around town has been restored.

Now the Sorceress is trying to keep her developing relationship with Shayless a secret from the rest of the party... not because she's ashamed of it, but because the Gnome in the party (who's obsession is Rumor Spreading) has taken it as her personal mission to destroy Shayless's reputation. This is going to be fun... I'm imagining a Three's Company like moment is in the works...

Aaron Bitman wrote:

You can find over a dozen funny Shayliss stories in the following thread:

I'm curious if anyone else is having romantic relationships with the NPCs

I actually had two relationships. My first character, a human alchemist, was involved for a while with Aldurn Foxglove, but he died before anything came of it. My second character is a 16-year-old human trapsmith rogue, and he fell hard for Shayliss, and even harder at the huge fists of her father. He even got accused by him of doing away with his other daughter out of revenge. I have had...bad luck with in-game relationships in RotRL.

In the go through with the gunslinger I accidentally read the adventure wrong (It was my first time running it). I miss read it as Shayliss dying in the skinsaw murders. So she ended up ensnaring the gunslinger and had that guy from the mill on the side.

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Shayliss approached my party's barbarian for that encounter, mostly because Atali (the barbarian) has a habit of getting naked as part of her battle prep. The two had some fun, but Shayliss' dad caught them.

The DC to get Shayliss' old man to settle down is rather high, so Atali was lucky that she was planning to multiclass into Barbarian/Sorcerer and had a decent Charisma score in preparation for that. She didn't exactly calm him down properly (just tripped him and ran), but was able to talk herself out of that later on, with some help from the more diplomatic party witch.

Atali and Shayliss started a relationship, and when Atali manifested her first sorcerer level during Thistletop, Shayliss also got a level in it, both of them being pit-touched sorcerers. They didn't immediately know its origins, but later found out that Atali's parents had been diabolists.

Later, after Shayless' sister was killed, she tried to summon a devil herself to get revenge. Atali talked/intimidated her out of it, and then vowed that Shayless would need no fiend, for Atali would hunt down her sister's murderer personally. She did so, and because Atali was also Aldern's crush, she found a gift from Shayliss that she thought she'd lost among his things.

Ms. Vinder hasn't had any real significance since then. Hook Mountain Massacre doesn't afford much opportunity for Sandpoint NPCs (sans Shalelu) to be important. She'll be back though.

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Little help on this point...!

Short background. The players have been told that there is a good chance we will be running Jade Empire as a sequel quest, as "next generation" of the RotRL party and that they should be making some provision in that direction.

Our Dwarf barbarian has set his eyes on Shayliss, after being pointed in that direction by the party wizard (who Shayliss had invited into the basement and was a bit sore about being duffed up by Ven.)

Let me just quote the relevant portions from my adventure log thread:

An off-hand conversation between Ruamaini (the wizard) and Thrôllgar (the barbarian) led to Ruamaini suggesting he go to the general store owner (Ven Vinder) and say something to the affect that he'd heard his daughters were "goers." So Thrôllgar, not understanding quite that bit of slang did.

After the ensuing (off-screen) fistfight and a night in the cells, an exasperated Hemlock explained exactly what that meant. Thrôllgar then attemped to go and apologise to Vinder. It did not ggo terribly, but neither did it go well... I said that (word having gotten round), Thrôllgar had gotten some hard stares from the ladies in question. So he decided to try to apologise to them as well - giving them each a gold piece to go and make themselves look nice. (Because it is Thrôllgar went all's said and done...!)

Regis (party warblade) went with him when they cornered Shayliss, and as Thrôllgar made his apology, Regis handed her some flowers that "Thrôllgar" had also gotten her. Net result, at this point, Shayliss was reasonably sort of flattered (even with the knowledge that Regis was trying to help Thrôllgar), and Thrôllgar got a smile and couple of over-the-shoulder looks as she went away.

Katrine didn't react quite so well... And Thrôllgar got a vist from her boyfriend while he was working at the bar. Harker did the usual jealous boyfriend thing of "stay away from my woman" while Thrôllgar tried to explain he was only trying to be nice.

**Then the PCs had a period of downtime before Skinsaw Murders started.**

After the party had started investigating and got back to the inn the first day, Thrôllgar Had A Plan. It occurred to him the Ven was in the garrison, so there was no-one else at the Vinder home. So he was going to disguise himself and go and "stalk that girl" (i.e. Shayliss) in case she was in danger.

So. I had him make a disguise check (a charisma based skill, with his Charisma of 6) with no disguise kit (-2). He got a total of 4.

The party paused in mid-meal as Thrôllgar heade down the stairs, wearing his bedsheet, with a hole crudely cut out for his head and the cut-out piece inexpertly tied to his head as a sort of turban. Looking like... Thrôllgar wearing a bedsheet with a hole in it.

Ameiko was gripping the bar so hard she was nearly leaving marks, and developed a significant eye-twitching problem...

Kaddo (one of the party's bards) signalled Thrôllgar over.

"It's me," Thrôllgar said, unecessarily, "I'm in disguise!"

Kaddo then patiently explained why this was, frankly, a really bad idea and that if Thrôllgar wanted to disguise himself properly, he'd need to do something more drastic, like shave his beard. There was a long pause, during which the temperature dropped very rapidly. Kaddo moved swiftly on and suggested that he ought to try making himself look like another Dwarf. Thrôllgar replied his plan was to make himself taller by standing on a box.

And then revised this idea to stilts until Kaddo pointed out that it would actually take some effort to learn to use stilts...

Eventually, Kaddo finally pursuaded Thrôllgar to explain what he was doing. Thrôllgar explained that, what with Ven being on the clink currently, he was going to stalk Shayliss to make sure he was safe. "It's a what do you call it? A stalk out!" Kaddo suggested that if that was the idea, maybe he should send someone better suited to it...?

"Well, I wasn't going to take the whole party," said Thrôllgar. "That might look suspicious."

Also, Kaddo, suggested, he might want to replace Ameiko's bedsheet.

"Ah, she won't want it after I've been uuing it anyway," Thrôllgar said.

"Point," Ameiko, said. "I was gonna burn it anyway, so no loss I guess. He's not having another one though."

"I wasn't using it anyway," Thrôllgar replied cheerfully. "I only use the straw!"

I was killing myself, at this point.

Anyway, Kaddo and Thrôllgar headed off to Shayliss' house. Thrôllgar actually stopped to spent a whole silver piece getting some flowers. Thrôllgar nearly banged on the door, but stopped and knocked sensibly. Shayliss eventually answered.

Thrôllgar handed Shayliss the flowers and offered condolances. With Kaddo "translating" and smoothing Thrôllgar's utter lack of tact (and terrible charisma checks), Thrôllgar explained that he was there because he was concerned she migt be in danger, and that he was volenteering to guard her. "I can stand outside your house," he said. "I mean, it's just like standing outside the bar [where he works as a bouncer part-time] which doesn't say much, so it's not really any different." With Kaddo - who really earned his pay today! - helping to explain what Thrôllgar "meant" by that, they left with Shayliss not completely repulsed, so there was that...!

***Next day, after a trip to the Sanatorium**
Thrôllgar decided he was going off to stand outside Shayliss' house. Kaddo, thankfully, went and told Hemlock, who went and had a word, suggesting that, again, while he and the party were mostly convinced of Thrôllgar's innocence, not everyone else was, and that standing around outside her house was not going to ease suspicion...

***The next day, after a trip down to the Hambley famr***
Thrôllgar decided to disguise himself again, and try to take more flowers to Shayliss. His result was as bad as last time, especially since he'd tried to make himself look like and old dwarf wizard. So he ended up wearing the poncho made from the bedsheet again, only this time with flour in his beard and taking the cut off and making into a pointed hat with eye holes cut in it.

(So basically what you had was Thrôllgar wearing an impromptu Klu Klux Klan hat, in a bedsheet, with flour in his beard.)

Naturally, EVERYONE know it was him (especially since he's so obvious in Sandpoint now, everyone gets the +4 bonus...) Kaddo and Gavril (the other bard) followed a safe distance to watch the entertainment, as went and bought and silver piece's worthy of flowers and headed to the general store. He knocked at the door and was met by an extremely unamused Ven Vinder. Ven looked at him and said "Thrôllgar, you have until the count of ten to get out of here before I take that hat and feed it to you." On the count of four, Kaddo hustled up to take the protesting Thrôllgar away, taking the flowers out of Thrôllgar's hand and putting them on the floor (since Ven wasn't going to take them), explaining they were Shayliss. Thrôllgar mused about how he probably should have tied them to a brick and threw them into her window. Kaddo pointed at he would then need to tie a gold piece to it to save the window and thus would be better off just sticking a gold piece through the letter box...

I am... An really not sure what I should do here. On the one hand, Thrôllgar having a love-interest for Next Gen = Good. On the other hand Crazy Stalker!Thrôllgar = bad. (Especially since he's the one all the murder notes are addressed to - the only reason Hemlock is fairly sure Thrôllgar's being set up is because Thrôllgar can't actually READ.)

So, what do you think Shayliss's reactions should be to this? On the one hand, he's trying, in his own... unique... way and giving her lots of expensive gifts... On the other hand, it's Thrôllgar and her sister just was murdered...

Suggestions would be greatly welcome!

Wo-ow. So, Thrôllgar sounds absolutely adorable, but I can imagine his antics are going to be troublesome. Personally I'd advise him to work at it as the party continues along through the AP, as the more heroic stuff he and his friends do in Sandpoint, the more well-known and liked he'll get.


...Eventually I imagine people will start to view him more as eccentric than malicious, and what they need most for such a change in viewpoint to occur is plain old-fashioned time, as well as some opportunity to get to know him.

I feel like it's the sort of relationship that would have a slow start. If anything I'd imagine that book 4 (or around the start of book 5 maybe) is an appropriate time for it to finally start paying off for him with acceptance from both Shayliss and the townspeople as a whole.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Well, he was pretty much the centre of attention since the start of the campaign... As I've said to the players, Sandpoint has tended to, up until now, think of them as "Thrôllgar and his mates." Really, since the Swallowtail Festival, he's had a following from the villagers. So he was viewed as sort of a crazy eccentric before. He's like an actually Dwarf Nobby Nobbs, with charisn'tma out the eyeballs, but replacing Nobby's... reticence to action with the urge to hit things with his axe*.

But - having that little spat with Katrine and Harker before the murders, as well as being the one to whom all the notes are addressed just didn't do him any favours. (Hilarious as though I found, I couldn't have planned that!) So... Once the true murderers are uncovered, that aspect will be back to normal. I sort of agree on the long-term goal. It's this stalking thing, where he's basically keeps pushing it every day that's a bit off and that has me worried.

(And, before anyone asks, the player certainly does know better - it's a failing with Thrôllgar, not his player!)

*He has a slightly darker side, too, hilarious though he is. Thrôllgar has acrued more sin ticks (which I translate to full sin points on a 5:1 basis) than the entire rest of the party combined...! (Wrath especially; the party had to point out to him that using Erylium's corpse as a handpuppet to entertain the children of Sandpoint was Not A Good Idea...) He's definitely neutral, not good (and a few times skating to the opposite, though not quite there). He doesn't really "get" civilisation, coming from a harsh (now eradicated) Dwarven clan for whom mere survival was a challenge and violence was a way of life.

Seems like Shoanti fighters tend to be targeted a lot, and it was the same in my game (though a little later on). Our fighter was transgendered though, so Shayliss didn't find what she'd expected but rolled with it. Ven was not happy and started pummeling, but the fighter refused to fight back and took quite a few hits (18 Con, near max hp rolls) and finally made peace. The relationship took off from there. Last I recall they were buying a house.


Card Game version:
In the Adventure Card Game, Shayliss is a "Barrier" card, that hinders your progress. I ran into her with Amiri the Barbarian, who ended up using the "Mattock" card to bypass the obstacle... *wince*

On another occasion, Kyra predictably fell victim to her.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Now that both of my RotR groups have met her ...

In Group 1, Shayliss targeted the Vargus (the Rogue). While he did go down to the basement with her (naively thinking that there really was a rat problem), as soon as he saw what was going on, he started to extricate himself from the situation. When Ven turned up, Vargus managed to escape the fist-fight (dodging, Bluffing, and Diplomancing like crazy). Vargus' player had chosen the Merchant Family campaign trait (he was a distant Deverin cousin who had just come back home to Sandpoint after barrister/lawyer/solicitor training in Magnimar), so he very wisely headed immediately for Sheriff Hemlock and Mayor Deverin, and explained the situation. They both had heard a bit of Shayliss' reputation. Between his quick thinking and connections, Ven can't do more than give him the stink-eye when he sees him. (Shayliss, although thwarted, did not get her nose put out of joint so she's just re-adjusted her focus on someone else - maybe Aldern Foxglove?) But I do count it an RP victory when describing a room full of Sandpoint NPCs, that Vargus winces when he sees Ven and keeps a low profile. :)

In Group 2, Shayliss had had no luck in "accidentally encountering" alone either of her first two targets (a bishie noble-born Brevic Magus and an Ulfen Magus), but then Donk (the _really muscular_ [Str 18] orc-raised half-orc Barbarian) turned up in the shop to buy a climber's kit. She fell for his muscles and he fell for her ... something. (The face card really helped there.) The next day (after some harrowing experiences on Chopper's Isle*), some other party members persuaded him to take a bath, brushed out his clothes, and told him to bring her some flowers. Donk found her alone in shop, heard her plea for help with the "rat problem", and happily followed her down to the basement storage area. When her bodice came off, his shirt quickly followed. Then Ven turned up. The Diplomacy/Bluff checks ... didn't work well. Cue a fist-fight, and Donk woke up an hour later in the horse trough outside the General Store. Although the rest of the party didn't ask any questions when he returned to the inn soaking wet, some bruises already forming, and no happy grin, they drew their own conclusions. I believe that Donk might try again, as Shayliss didn't cringe at the sight of blood. He did ask Ven if it was correct procedure to fight for her. :) Of particular note: he hasn't asked her what her name is yet. On the other hand, Donk is also wondering if the sister is available. :o

* Both my groups have insisted upon investigating Chopper's Isle. Group 1 at least waited until they were L 3, but Group 2 went while they were still L 1. O_o (Many thanks to the Paizo fan who wrote that particular creepy little side-trek!)

My swashbuckler has fallen hard for Shayliss, from her invite into the basement to handle some rats to where we are currently at Ameiko's father mansion where Ameiko wants our party to protect it from looters. Shayliss's father and my character Ruiz fought in the basement, well Ven fought, Ruiz just tried to talk his way out and dodge. Didn't go so well as Ruiz was handed his butt. But managed to retreat finally.

Ruiz took Shayliss to the mansion for a romantic getaway for a few hours.

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