Xokek

Dead Phoenix's page

Organized Play Member. 185 posts (222 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 3 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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My experience with bard must be very different from most peoples because being a 'Anthem bot' is the least of my problems(in fact I don't really have any problems, it turned out better then I expected, especially compared to the envoy I've been playing in sf1, until it hit level 6+ recently). And its only gotten better with the remaster. Get 'em seems even more constraining since you have to take a second action just to get the damage bonus, and you can do multiple directives on one turn so you have less excuses to not do it even if you are opting for a different one in a turn. Not really a complaint though, having a really good 'third action' is only a good thing in my mind(and its SO much better then low level sf1 envoy).

Also I find the idea that you will get the Saw It Coming bonus 'often' very unlikely unless the gm is setting it up for you regularly.


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I like the class overall, though 2 things kind of bug me. First, I feel like Size Up needs a little bit more of... something at its base function(the feats can make it way more interesting, but I don't think it should need that). I first idea is some way to combine it with directives and/or the leadership styles, but really it could be anything.

And the second thing is the key attribute. Should envoy be key CHA? Probably, but then why doesn't it use it in a cool way in battle. As is, if you ignored cha, it doesn't feel like you would even be losing much more then most other martials(you even can get bonuses to make up for it). Even the leadership styles look like they were built to give you a extra choice for key abilities.


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imo the sf2 field-test mystic is arguably one of the most stacked casters in 2e, it is anything but weak.


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Kishmo wrote:

We know precious little about the 2e operative. In the Know Direction Beyond interview, no one said anything about the Operative being, or not being, a skillmonkey. There was discussion about there being a sniper build for the Operative, persuant to the sniper operative spoken about in the first Reports from the Field Blog. And, at the 46 min mark, they talked a bit about class design, in that they don't want a class, like Operative, that can be good at everything, but that was in reference to everything everything, not just "skills" everything. I.E. The Operative won't be the best at melee and the best at ranged and the best at non-Cha Skills and the best at Party Face Skills. But I don't think we're to take that to mean "lol Operatives aren't skillsy anymore."

Ditto re: envoy. They said envoy's different, but still satisfies that quick quip throwing party leader vibe. Nothing was said about skillsmonkiness (or lack thereof.)

In short: it's a bit early to talk about any class being, or not being, "the skills one" (or if there will only be "one.")

at about 58 minutes they very explicitly say that the operative is not a skill monkey, the envoy is. even using the word skill monkey specifically. they also said the operatives skills are 'to kill you'. this doesn't mean operative will have the lowest number of skills in the game, in fact they might end up in a area like swashbuckler who get extra skill feats and the like without going full rogue with the double amount of skill increases(in fact, envoy might not even get that much).


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LandSwordBear wrote:
Rue Dickey wrote:
"Oh no, the gunslinger doesn't have a cell phone!!!" is one of my favorite lines of in-game dialogue, no lie.
Who doesn’t give the primitive timetraveller here to fight space fascists a phone, or at least an ear-piece/comm unit? Sounds like inefficient use of available resources. Rookie error.

You ever had to teach a grand parent how to use a phone? Now, imagine that, but they dont even know what a radio is. Also the phone is built with technology thousands of years in our future and is being used by people who for generations, literally cant remember the time when they didn't have hand held phones and have probably never had to teach anyone how to use one. Even spending time in Numeria would not prepare the time traveler for all this honestly.


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pf2 has plenty of crunch and synergies. its just not stacking up numbers with feats that combine in just the right way that rolling becomes an afterthought. you've probably heard it before, but in pf2 optimization happens at the table, not the character sheet.

@wolf
i've seen plenty of characters doing wild stuff i did not expect by people far smarter then me. hell even i was able to make an effective melee summoner based on a spiritualist i played in pf1. if you think you are just 'picking a character' in pf2, i'd say that is just your own limitation. i would believe that its not to the level sf1 is(which is a a far cry from pf1 as well), in fact i would say its the thing i still want the most from the system, but to say its somehow missing from pf2 is just not true.


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free archetype did a lot to make me more interested in pf2 because i thought it was lacking in customization, and while i generally prefer to have it, most of my time with pf2 has been organized play so I've not even used it half the time, and there's still plenty of customization. Hell I just almost completely retrained my champion, from sorc dedication to marshal(plus a couple other feats) and while i haven't played the remade version yet(scheduling is truly the greatest villain) i think he is going to be a very different beast.

then there is the kineticist. what a monster of a class... like, imo they should be looking at it when coming up with future classes/editions.


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eddv wrote:

I mean it is very clearly the #1 design goal and percieved selling point for Starfinder that it be 100% cross compatible.

I would have much rather seen this game try to advance and improve on P2s engine rather than copy it myself. But easy and full compatibility is just so clearly the bedrock of the design philosophy they have done to this point and I do not anticipate any amount of feedback shifting them from that.

I do think as a design goal it is extremely disappointing; Starfinder has always had its own vibes and I dont think they match pathfinders 1 to 1. I think Starfinder will have to give up some of it's identity in order to be fully cross compatible with Pathfinder. But its gonna be what its gonna be, we can only hope they really nail the equipment/enhancements and tech aspects to help it still feel distinct from the fantasy game.

Back on topic somewhat, I anticipate all 6 classes are going to be the sort of niche experience the soldier is. I dont anticipate the 6 are necessarily even going to be 6 of the 7 from the starfinder core book.

After all we dont need a generic fightyman or generic magic-user; Wizard and Fighter are gonna be usable. So maybe technomancer doesnt make the jump. Do we need an operative when we have a rogue? We are gonna find out I guess. What does mechanic do that Inventor doesnt already do? Maybe we see Biohacker and Precog instead.

The moment they mentioned 100% compatibly I felt like it was a huge missed opportunity. Could have been a chance to try and take pf2s systems to the next level... While that may still has happen in some ways, it's going to be extremely restricted, which I think is quite unfortunate. That said, it's a great idea for marketing, as it now means pf2 huge playerbase with 0 interest in SF might pick up books just for more options.

... Personally hoping they can be pushed to make stamina the core assumption, if only to expand the mechanic for both games.


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Skedge wrote:
Baldur's gate is turned based, it just does not auto pause between turns by default. It is a setting you can change in game :)

Yeah, and it plays terribly like that since it is not built for it.

Either go all the way with turned based or don't bother. My vote is for turned based.

And yeah, I'm super excited for any potential 2e game. Apparently when they first started developing the king maker game they argued whether to go rtwp or turned based and I think the changes to 2e will go a long ways to then going turned based off they have that discussion again for a next game(here's going there is one!).


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Bagpuss wrote:
Lyee wrote:


I would like to see an option to reduce your level for the purpose of both healing and DC, if you want a more reliable recovery but don't need a huge number. So a level 15 medic could act as level 5 if they only needed to top up 5 hp, rather than try their normal DC they could fail.

Especially important since a secondary medic might never increase their wis, prof category, or item bonus, meaning they fail *more* from level 5 to 15, where their bonus increases by 10 and the DC by 12, under the current system.

I just wrote exactly this preference--to be able to reduce DC in exchange for healing less damage--in another thread, as I hadn't read this one at the time. If it doesn't get made a rule, I'm house-ruling it 100% of the time, but I genuinely think it has to be a rule in the game.

Other than this issue, I like Treat Wounds.

The problem with this idea, is that it makes it easier to crit on the check, which might actually make reducing the dc to reduce the damage healed... actually make you heal more damage(on average due to the increased odds of criting). This could be changed by removing or changing the crit success effect though.


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Shain Edge wrote:
ENHenry wrote:
Rameth wrote:

While Critical Successes will shorten that time even healing a 10 Con Character to max will still take 30 minutes if you get 3 Critical Successes in a row.

Also, you may have figured this in, but to call it out, it's not automatic, even someone hyperspecialized will fail 1 out of 3 attempts, which makes it a bit longer.

Personally, I'm fine with it, because it's cheap healing, but still has a cost: Time. If you're not in a time crunch, just figure an average healing rate given percentage of success, and say, "after x Hours, the group is patched up."

Hyperspecialized would also include 'Assurance', so you don't have to roll. Once you get skill to master, you are effectively auto-rolling a 20 + skill each time.

Incorrect. Assurance at matter level gives you a flat 20 to your check. Your skill bonuses do not apply, which by the time you are high enough to have matter in a skill, the DC is probably too high for a 20 to pass. Maybe a few levels at best...


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Davor wrote:
But here's the thing: You don't NEED that many feats to get back the agency. What if you only got 5 feats throughout your adventuring career, and one of them was: "Animal Companion: You get X benefits, and at X level, X level, X level, and X level you select from these improvements." That would be an amazing, build-defining feat, and you'd sit there in eager anticipation reaching for 5th level because you'd get ANOTHER build-defining feat. You could also have a "Natural Lore" feat that gets you things like Wild Empathy, Superior Tracking, Nature-based Spells for Spell Points, etc., all tied to a theme, all for one feat. Again, in a 1 feat/5 levels, that'd work, because every feat would be huge. All PF2 needs to do is strike a balance given their current...

I was just thinking the same thing. Maybe not less feats, but having the feats scale more instead of taking feats just to keep your abilities relevant at higher levels would feel a lot better I think. I like where they are going with the class feats, but it feels like the chassis of most of the classes got striped so much that I would have to spend all my feats getting what I need to keep up instead of getting something that lets me do something new. In pf1 this wasn't so bad because often feats were something that was outside of your class, which had more then enough stuff going for it(well... maybe not all the classes), but even then, few people liked feat chains(my group's house rules largely involved reducing feat chains or at least reducing the restrictions on them), and yet now it feels like they are back and more important then ever, even if the actual prereq's are no longer as much a problem.


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I like stamina... but i don't like resolve(as it is in SF). In fact I'm not a fan of the whole, 'everything runs off of one pool of points' thing a lot off people seem to be really into, so to deal with stamina, they have to come up with something else. Though maybe resolve just being for stamina healing and not dying(instead of hero points)could work.. for me at least.


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First World Bard wrote:
Elleth wrote:

Holy shoot persistent damage looks annoying.

Plant monsters are gonna immolate.
The DC 20 flat check to end seems like a typo. That, or something that needs to get fixed in the playtest. :P

Probably not a typo. In the glass cannon podcast playtest they got persistent bleed from bats and it was 1 hit per round until they made a flat dc 20 check. But I believe you can spend all your actions in a round to make a roll to end it sooner. Or they could just get healed, though that likely only works for bleed.


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The age of myth 2: electric bogalio has begun. We just don't know it yet. And will forget it later when the gap happens.


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Redblade8 wrote:
This blog about deities mentions favored weapon, which reminds me, do we know anything about weapons in 2e? In 1e, one of the key distinguishing features of weapons is their crit behavior (range and/or multiple), buy crits work rather differently in 2e. Do we have any idea what, for instance, makes a 2e longsword different from a battleaxe?

Yes we do! For the most part the crit ranges are going to be gone, but in there place every weapon has various abilities. Like a scimitar has an ability that deals extra damage when attacking a single character multiple times in a row and also has one that makes it so when they attack multiple opponents in a row, in a single round, the attack penalty decrease. Light weapons appear to have only -4 on additional attacks, and a rapier does an extra +1d10 damage on a crit. There are probably other examples out there, but I think you get the idea. Personally I think it sounds pretty rad, which is good because I'm not a fan of the lose of differing crit ranges(love a good crit fishing build myself) so this is at least makes up for it.


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Shinigami02 wrote:

Yes the melee wizard could cast a spell and attack once in the same round. IMO though, the Magus in theory would do one better: It would have a newfangled Spell Combat that might, say, let it make an attack as part of the Somatic component or something. Basically, play with the action economy to cast and attack in fewer actions than others can (kinda like how Fighters can double-move and strike in fewer actions than others can.) And then Spellstrike to deliver touch spells through weapon (same as in PF1e). As such, I think there's still plenty of room for Magus to fill.

EDIT: And of course the Magus could in theory do this in up to Heavy Armor, something I predict the Wizard will still have issues doing.

Yeah, the way i see it, this just means it opens up the option for the magus to do more. Now that you dont need magus to be the only class that can cast and attack in the same round, they can focus on making them the best at it, and giving them some other abilities to make them a bit more unique.


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Tengu, too!

That's just your tengu bias talking.

On an unrelated note, who else thinks Phoenix's should be in the core book?


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I'd really hate to see ranger and paladin just get crappy versions of the cleric and druid spell lists. Be better if they get some other set of abilities to represent their magical abilities, but I'd honestly prefer them to get their own spell lists.


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Fuzzypaws wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I hope they make it so that crafting is not cheaper than market price. The way it was done in Starfinder was fine, but would be more interesting here if they get rid of "Hamlet's high magic store".

It is time to end the tyranny of Wizards that laugh at WBL guidelines!! Crafting should be used to get access to some rare items in the first place, not to get double the amount of them as well.

I have mixed feelings. It makes sense that you can't craft cheaper in Starfinder, because an individual craftsman can't compete with the economy of scale of factories in an industrialized trade based society. But in more primitive setting... Hm.

Maybe just make it so you get a 20% discount when you make it yourself. Markup for sale really doesn't need to be the entire cost of making the item.

Yet another reason they should go for dynamic crafting. It starts at 85 percent, but it can get lower if you have the right skills and some luck, or higher if your luck isn't so great. I think one of my players even ended up paying more then full price for an item early on in our current campaign(and possibly also makes it so their voice is one octave higher while wearing the item). Of course this only really applies to magic crafting.


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I really hope the magic crafting system is inspired by the dynamic crafting mechanics. It can actually make making a magic item an interesting activity instead of just a roll(that is likely skipped if you can take 10 on it) with nothing else happening.


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Noir le Lotus wrote:

This preview worries me a bit.

The fighter is typically the entry class of lots of new players, as you can build an efficient character with only feats that give a numerical advantages (Improved Init, Weapon Focus etc ...), so the new player has only very few things to know and can learn the basics of the game easily.

This preview shows a lot of things to master, I fear new players will be a bit overhelmed by all these notions ...

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that a new player would rather pick feats that let him do cool new stuff then get a +1 on thier sword swing. I know it sounds way better to me, and not at all hard to understand.


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What version of Pathfinder are people playing that being bad at a skill is a choice? Are they all just playing rogues and bards with tons of int? I'm looking at some of my old characters and they have a ton of 1 rank skills, not because i didn't want them, but because I just couldn't afford to put more points into them. Hell I probably would have put ranks into some of the skills i have 0 in now if I could have. Of course you can still be bad at skills in the new system anyways. There is tons of stuff you cant do with an untrained skill from the sounds of it, so comparing a untrained level 20 to a level 1 with a trained skill sounds disingenuous to me, for a variety of reasons.
There are things I like about the PF1 skill rank system, and when i first heard about the proficiency system here I was kinda worried, but now I feel like the arguments against it have almost done as much to make me like it, as the ones arguing for it.


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Better then handing the dagger to the barbarian and the rest of the party leaves/standing around trying to imagine how much fun it would be to actually be able to help.


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Rysky wrote:
They have mentioned there are other healing options that will be available aside from spells and consumables.

I love that your post is ignored so people could have the same argument about clw wands again. Milo knows whats up at least.


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Corrik wrote:
Since there isn't a CLW wand anymore are healing and HP going to get a fundamental rework beyond less but stronger? You never read Gandalf "spending 49 charges" to heal Aragon after a battle with some Orcs, but you never read about him needing them either.

This might be wild speculation on my part, but it sounded like you can only use so many wand charges a day, shared by all Wands you own. This would mean at higher levels a clw wand would cap out on max hp quickly, making a csw wand or whatever much more desirable. Once again this is just me trying to make sense of thier explanation so this is not for sure how it works... We will see soon enough I so suppose.


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XLordxErebusX wrote:


How many tiers are there?

Considering double checking the math... DC 15+(2*Tier), it might not be that bad.

Ship tier is equal to your average party level, so 20 is the max. DC 55 is pretty crazy. Probably doable if you go in on a skill hard, but its the 3*tier that is the problem. Honestly I would consider lowering the speed starship tiers increase as a party levels as a gm, though I never expect to hit level 20 anyways. Hopefully low to mid levels it is all much more managable(if my group does stick to aps we will only have to worry about capping at out level 12 anyways).


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sunderedhero wrote:
Dead Phoenix wrote:
I believe Owen also mentioned that any skill an Op has skill focus in can take ten on it at some point. so even if the actually skill focus bonus doesn't work you still get something out of it.
True, but that's a class feature, you're still left with two bonus feats that do nothing.

The class feature explicitly makes the feat do something. It may not be the thing you want, but it is by definition not nothing. Unless there is something I am not aware of about the ability, in which case please fill me in.


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Cuttlefist wrote:
One of the tropes that always annoys me about many science fantasy RPGs is the tendency to penalize spellcasters for using too much technology, forcing players to specialize in either magic or cybernetics and computer skills. Not in Starfinder! Sounds like you figured out a perfect blend. I especially love how modular their spell slots are, really captures the feel of a scientist who studies magic.

Yes! I hate that trope, but as soon as technology shows up, magic either disappears or just does not play well with it. And the excuses for it always seem half assed... Glad that's not the case here.


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Voss wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Okay, I'm gonna be negative today. Sorry about that!

I've just never been that interested in the Solarian. It seems like a weirdly narrow-flavored concept, and to be honest, I doubt my mind is going to be changed until I either read the iconic's page or get the actual full class description in my hands. That said, is it just me, or are the "class preview" characters really weirdly bland compared to the iconics? I mean, I get that that's why they aren't iconics, but damn, I am just not terribly impressed by "Rugged Dark-Haired White Boy #100044". At least the outfit is kind of charming, I guess.

I actually like him a lot more an the iconics. Ok, the cape is silly, but he actually looks like a person, rather than an ambulatory pile of gear with a random cartoony head on top. Part of it is art style (and actual facial expressions).

But then I've never understood the point of iconics anyway. Ok, the random sketch in the class entry keeps showing up in the other art in the books because...?

I'd much rather see more variety in the art than the same dirty dozen over and over and over. They make the world feel too small.

If I remember my history right, Iconics aren't really for us, they are, at least originally for the artist. Particularly artist who don't know anything about d&d and wouldn't know the first about what to draw if you just said "Make a ranger". This just saves Paizo and the artist lots of time in various cases. But then as time went on fans took a lot of interest in the Iconics and now we have the beasts they are today.


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Ventnor wrote:
Another character idea: a Shirren whose drone isn't an AI: its a robotic exoskeleton the mechanic created to keep their larva safe. Said larva is the one who is actually piloting the drone.

Is every shirren PC going to be best bug parent? Because if so I am totally okay wit this.


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TheGoofyGE3K wrote:
Oooooooooo wow, this is everything I was hoping for and then some :D of course, I have no idea what I'll choose for my future mechanic, as the idea of upgrading myself or melding with the drone is pretty damn cool :D

Yep. For a while now I had an idea of making a mechanic based off of Xanotos, but the one thing I was missing was a mech suit... but now that is a thing so I am unbelievably happy right now.


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donato wrote:

Prestige classes are potentially in the game. I played the demo at PaizoCon and one of the companions had a level in arcane trickster. It was the light-brown haired elven (half-elf?) woman in the companion artwork. She had levels in wizard, rogue, and one level in arcane trickster.

I asked Alexander about prestige classes and he mentioned that the plan is to get all Core prestige classes in to the game. I can't speak as to whether that is from the get go or if it would be a stretch goal.

I just saw this from the guy answering questions in the kickstater comment page:

Berserkerkitten wrote:
Did somebody say Arcane Trickster? Oh boy, have I got news for you. I'm not allowed to pass along any spoilers just yet, which is killing me...

Take that as you will.


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Blave wrote:

Some things I'm still want to know:

- Prestige Classes? This might be asking for too much, but I'd love to play an Eldritch Knight again (last one was in NWN2) or finally being able to play a Mystic Theurge.

I heard this in the know direction podcast, so take it with a grain of salt, but someone in their chat mentioned their being an arcane trickster in the demo. Hardly a trusted source, but who knows... Hopefully someone on this forum that played the demo does.


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phantom1592 wrote:

Reminder,

blog wrote:


3. No Iterative Attacks. Starfinder characters normally get a single attack every round, and this holds true from level 1 to level 20—a character's number of attacks does not increase as their base attack bonus goes up. Instead, any character (even at first level!) can use a full action to make two attacks in a round, each at a -4 penalty.
So you can still use a full attack to get multiple attacks. It's not AS useful as getting 5 or 6 of them... but I still a prevelance for the 5' shuffle and abandoning extra options for the sake of getting two attacks.

Going by the stat page for the soldier iconic that was going around, it looks like some weapons wont even be able to do 'full attacks', but instead have huge dice damage, iirc. Also, lossing that 4 attack bonus on even your first attack will absolutely make doing single attacks more attractive in many cases. I mean, how many people do you know are willing to use 2 non-light weapons when dual wielding?


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Δaedalus wrote:
Where's the Chronomancer from? It's not showing up in my searches.

Its from the legacy of the first world book. Releases may 31st, but pdfs are already out.


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I could have sworn they already confirmed working on a Pathfinder RPG as well, probably after the card game is finished(or close to finished). That is still a long way off though, but its almost certainly coming.


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Liz Courts wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
The red glowy bit looks like it could easily be the soul of an orphan.
IT'S POWERED BY THE HEART OF A FORSAKEN CHILD!?

Better hope Doctor Orpheus doesn't find out...


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The Rot Grub wrote:

Kotaku is positively gushing over Obsidian's new CRPG, the Kickstarter-backed Pillars of Eternity.

I share the wish of many others that the Obsidian/Paizo deal might lead to a single-player CRPG based in the Pathfinder ruleset sometime in the future. But I wonder... does this bode good or ill for my fantasy? It shows that Obsidian has the development chops, but it seems like they're putting a lot of effort into developing their own rules and campaign setting. Hmm...

Also, I like how the upcoming D&D CRPG is made with the intent of empowering DMs to make their own adventures.

Too me, it sounds like they have an engine perfectly suited for making a pathfinder game. They can even just modify the ruleset(which feels very much based on 3.5, to no one surprise), since apparently even with the OGL making a pc game using the 3.5 system is kinda legally iffy.


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Its a halfing, so he gets a +1 to attack from his small size.


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Lemmy wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
here's been talk about a 'Fatigue Point' system available to all martials allowing them to do cool stuff, but not every round. It'd be something you Feat into, though, making Fighters by far the best at utilizing it. That'd be, to some degree, a buff to Fighters with no actual class change needed.

Oh, great... Another feat tax... It'll probably cost a bunch of feats too, just so "the Fighter really excels at it!". *sigh*

When will they learn that feat taxes and long feat chains do not buff Fighters! In fact, they nerf the class harder than everyone else!

From what I've heard it will be one feat, that gives other combat feats additional abilities(like doubling the damage from power attack for a round at the cost of 1 fatigue point or something). I believe it will also include a rule that simply says all martial classes(if not all classes) get the feat for free. So the more combat feats you have the better the ability becomes. This all comes from what I've read and heard in interviews, so things may change, but right now it sounds pretty good for Fighters.


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Having +30 feet for 1 min/level doesn't make +10 feet for 1 hour/level not very useful, or vice versa. You can still use ER while Longstrider is up(when you really need that extra 20 feet of movement), so they are both very useful spells when used 'together' even if they don't stack.


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Physically Unfeasible wrote:
Gnomezrule wrote:
I would suggest some variant of arcanist. I mean you want your hose to be prepared for specific things but you also want it to be spontaneous not so stodgy. You know not to formal but could still whip up an impromptu heroes feast.

You know what? If we're referencing actual classes;

Rogue.
Bonus points if you focus on stealth.

I think this one has been done before...


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Given Precise Strike and Improved uncanny dodge(which is only 1/3 of a deed anyways) are the only ones effected by level, I'd say no, especially given similar abilities will state quite specifically that X class level counts as class levels in class Y for such effects.


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I always wonder if these so called super intelligent villains also stock their dungeons with rust monsters and equip their guards with admantine weapons. If they are going out of there way to destroy familiars and spell books, despite this having 0 effect on a wizard in the middle of battle beyond pissing them off(post battle is another matter, but by then they are dead), they must put destroying the raging barbarian's great sword or w/e as an even higher priority.


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From the very first sentence all I could thing of was one thing... Toph. The rest of the back story didn't change that much. I'm not complaining though.


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JoelF847 wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Paladins of Asmodeus have been retconned out of the setting, at least as NPCs with actual levels of paladin.

Correct. That wasn't a retcon, actually. That was us correcting an actual and legitimate error. In the same way if we spell the word "Wizard" as "Wziard," that doesn't mean that there are actually characters out there with levels in a new class called "Wziard."

I was so looking forward to playing a Wziard though! Are you saying there isn't going to be a book called Misspelled Class Guide?

There better be. The Rouge class is in serious need of a buff.


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spectrevk wrote:
Alceste008 wrote:
Sarenrae is an interesting Goddess. Being on one hand the God willing to go to battle against Rovagug face to face, while the rest of the deities worked to bind him. On the other hand, Sarenrae seeks to redeem even those gods that have fallen into darkness. Neutral Good is a good fit for a deity that is willing to use different methodologies to achieve goodness.
True, but it's not a great fit for one of the only Good deities in Golarion that isn't actively against slavery (iirc, Abadar is the only other one that comes to mind).

Incase you missed it in the link Elyas post earlier...

James Jacobs wrote:

Sarenrae herself, and her church, does not tolerate slavery, but nor do they preach "Kill the slavers!" They would certainly look for non-violent ways to seek a slave's freedom—purchasing the slave and setting the slave free is probably the preferred method.

Now that said, there's a wide range of individual variations among the specific worshipers of Sarenrae—as with ANY religion. There are some worshipers of Sarenrae who would, perhaps, seek to simply comfort slaves if possible, espcially if they see the alternative (living on your own with no support structure in a dangerous city) is more painfula nd dangerous than slavery itself. There's ABSOLUTELY some worshipers of Sarenrae who crusade against slavery and slavers themselves and DO use violence against the slavers.

Now, as for Qadira? It's important to keep two things in mind about Sarenrae's faith being the most widespread faith in Qadira:

1) It's not in charge. The government of Qadira is richer and more powerful than the church of Sarenrae in Qadira, and as a result, the government is the one that gets to say if slaves are legal or not. The church has to either go along with that or rebel, and in Qadira's case, the church has opted to go along with it.

2) The church of Sarenrae in Qadira is NOT the most faithful of all of Sarenrae's churches. In fact, it's one of the most corrupt of her churches, because they've more or less lost sight of the "redeem your enemies" and "peace is better than war." Over the course of many generations, the church of Sarenrae in Qadira has become militarized, basically, and they're a lot more pro-war than they should be—but not SO pro-war that the chruch is in immediate danger of losing all their clerical powers. This church's tolerance of slaves in Qadira is but one of many examples of how the church is straying from Sarenrae's path. It's also why there's a schism building among the church, as a growing number of worshipers are coming to realize that things have somehow gone sour in the faith here. But an...


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She is not warm and fuzzy. She personally kicked Rovagug butt into a prison(asmodous helped a little) and she destroyed a city of her own followers because they went to far(they were also driven crazy by rovagug fart gas or something). She is very forgiving, but she is not afraid to put the hurt on when you go to far, and simply put, they have not gone far enough yet. This is quite possible a mistake on her part, but as I mentioned above, it wouldn't be her first one.

Honestly it sounds like you are talking about Shelyn or something and you think she should be acting like Iomedae.


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First off, she is neutral good, not lawful. Also, being the goddess of redemption, she is kinda be very forgiving, to a fault. She is well aware that some people are 'doing it wrong' but she believes it best for them to work it on there own or with the help of the other faithful mortals. The reason does this is because the last time she decided to directly intervene, she got her herald killed, got pissed and the ripped open a rift to Rovagug's prison, releasing(among many other things) a Tarrasque.

So yeah... As long as you don't go too far(why slavery isn't too far, i can't tell you), she will let mortals be idiots in her name.

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