Know Direction's Massive Interview with Erik Mona and Logan Bonner - Lots of New Info!


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Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This was such an amazing episode to do, I didn't expect that they would be THAT open about everything when it started.

  • Archetypes don't have to be class specific, but can be.
  • Prepared Spellcasting & Spontaneous Spellcasting both exist.
  • Metamagic still exists
  • Hero Points are Core - But different from what we've seen before.
  • Spells don't auto scale, you have to slot them higher (And yes, they admit this one was just like 5e's solution to the same problem.)
  • They intend to make PF2 Characters extremely customize-able and crunchy, not a dumbed down system at all for PCs.
  • Simple Monster Creation aimed at hitting similar stat ranges as PCs, unlike Starfinder's different balance for NPCs / Enemies.
  • Explanation of what Class Feats are, similar to Rogue Talents, but expanded. One every other level.
  • PF1E Paperback Books will stay in print until sales flag.

    And a lot more than that, its two hours of solid question and answering with very little holding back.

    Full Interview Available Here


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    Know Direction podcast unpacked in detail here:

    http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?5039-Here-s-a-TON-of-Pathfinder-2- Info-from-the-Know-Direction-Podcast

    Grand Lodge

    I was planning on watching Know Direction in the next few days anyway -- I'll be checking it out probably this weekend.

    Thanks Perram.


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    Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    There is a gap in the link above that keeps it from working.

    Try this one instead.

    Contributor

    3 people marked this as a favorite.

    This is one of the best interviews that I have ever been on the show for. Thanks for an amazing two hours filled with savory reveals, Erik and Logan!


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    So do you still get regular feats?

    Contributor

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    Dragon78 wrote:
    So do you still get regular feats?

    Yup! Erik and Logan described it as “streamlining the terminology.” So you get different feats from different things. Example: rogue feats are gained from taking levels in the rogue class, and are comparable to 1E’s rogue talents. They are hoping that by standardizing the language, the game becomes easier to learn.


    But doesn't that become race traits/racial traits all over again?

    If I get access to one pool of selectable abilities because class, and a different pool of selectable abilities because level, they shouldn't be called the same thing.

    EDIT: If you chose an additional "rogue class ability" at level 3 with your "normal" feat - would you take the "Extra Feat" feat?


    So there are bloodline feats instead of bloodline powers for sorcerer?

    What about race feats as well as class feats?


    shaventalz wrote:

    But doesn't that become race traits/racial traits all over again?

    If I get access to one pool of selectable abilities because class, and a different pool of selectable abilities because level, they shouldn't be called the same thing.

    EDIT: If you chose an additional "rogue class ability" at level 3 with your "normal" feat - would you take the "Extra Feat" feat?

    Nah. Race traits/racial traits are two massively different things with almost the same name. This is pools of similar-but-distinct things getting similar-but-distinct names.

    I don’t know that there are normal, uncategorized feats. We’ll have to see.

    RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

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    Love this:

    Spoiler:
    Alignment -- pretty much still the same. Some class restrictions going away. (Bonner)
    Detecting alignment a bit more fuzzy, with GM having more power to determine how the info is presented. And also easy to not include in the game. (Bonner)

    While I would love to just toss alignment out of my game, a majority of my players like it. If there's a way to keep it without me also having to worry what the paladin will see when she detects evil, that's a huge improvement from my perspective.

    Also, this addresses one of the concerns I had early on:

    Spoiler:
    Though you can still do NPCs like characters if you want. (Bonner)


    Dragon78 wrote:

    So there are bloodline feats instead of bloodline powers for sorcerer?

    What about race feats as well as class feats?

    Ancestry feats have been confirmed. Sounds like you get more as you level up.


    Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Alexander Augunas wrote:
    Dragon78 wrote:
    So do you still get regular feats?
    Yup! Erik and Logan described it as “streamlining the terminology.” So you get different feats from different things. Example: rogue feats are gained from taking levels in the rogue class, and are comparable to 1E’s rogue talents. They are hoping that by standardizing the language, the game becomes easier to learn.

    I'm still curious how "normal feats" work, if they exist. Is there a list of feats that can be taken by any class, such as proficiency feats or multiclassing feats?

    Shadow Lodge

    Well spells kind of got boring now. :/


    I really hope feats like Cunning, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Skill Focus, and Toughness still exist and anyone can take them.


    Dragonborn3 wrote:
    Well spells kind of got boring now. :/

    The alternate means of handling SoS spells mentioned in the other thread seems more fun to me. But I don’t play blaster casters, so lack of scaling doesn’t matter much to me.

    Contributor

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    shaventalz wrote:

    But doesn't that become race traits/racial traits all over again?

    If I get access to one pool of selectable abilities because class, and a different pool of selectable abilities because level, they shouldn't be called the same thing.

    EDIT: If you chose an additional "rogue class ability" at level 3 with your "normal" feat - would you take the "Extra Feat" feat?

    I don’t think so. In 1E we can tell the difference between Combat feats and Teamwork feats easy enough, so I don’t think there will be any issues like “race traits versus racial traits.” It is quite possible that new players will confuse when they can choose what, assuming there are restrictions.

    I would be surprised if we see an “Extra Class Option” feat; Paizo really moved away from those starting with the vigilant for balance concerns.


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    Charlie Brooks wrote:

    Love this:

    ** spoiler omitted **

    While I would love to just toss alignment out of my game, a majority of my players like it. If there's a way to keep it without me also having to worry what the paladin will see when she detects evil, that's a huge improvement from my perspective.

    Also, this addresses one of the concerns I had early on:

    ** spoiler omitted **

    This alleviates some of my main concerns about PF2E, excellent.


    The class feats system sounds interesting. I feel like it will actually go a long way towards making sure classes are balanced against eachother.

    Plus, this means we won't have to worry about overly restrictive single playstyle classes like the Swashbucker or Gunslinger again.


    Alexander Augunas wrote:
    shaventalz wrote:

    But doesn't that become race traits/racial traits all over again?

    If I get access to one pool of selectable abilities because class, and a different pool of selectable abilities because level, they shouldn't be called the same thing.

    EDIT: If you chose an additional "rogue class ability" at level 3 with your "normal" feat - would you take the "Extra Feat" feat?

    I don’t think so. In 1E we can tell the difference between Combat feats and Teamwork feats easy enough, so I don’t think there will be any issues like “race traits versus racial traits.” It is quite possible that new players will confuse when they can choose what, assuming there are restrictions.

    I would be surprised if we see an “Extra Class Option” feat; Paizo really moved away from those starting with the vigilant for balance concerns.

    It's mostly the new (or unread, or maybe casual) players I'm referring to here, the ones that do have issues with similarly-named items. I'd have to see the actual language used, of course, but thought it should be brought up as a possible issue.

    The "Extra Feat" feat was mostly brought up for the awkward name.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    Can someone explain what they think they meant with the revisiting Ancestry comment? I'm a little confused by that one!

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    What I do like about this is in future, callass feats can just get added. For example, a new book in the vein of say, Ultimate Whatever, can add a whole section of class feats, essentially expanding characters in such a customisable way that was impossible before! Mix and match your favourite class abilities to make a Character which fits YOUR concept! Didn't know if I believed them when they said they'd made classes more customizable, but they sure proved me wrong. At this rate, Archetypes are hardly even necessary (though I'm super pumped to see what they bring to the table!)


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    Derry L. Zimeye wrote:
    Can someone explain what they think they meant with the revisiting Ancestry comment? I'm a little confused by that one!

    I haven't listened to the interview itself (and won't, because length), but the bullet points linked earlier almost make it look like a separate advancement track. Almost a second "racial class" type of thing in addition to the "real" class.

    Derry L. Zimeye wrote:
    For example, a new book in the vein of say, Ultimate Whatever, can add a whole section of class feats, essentially expanding characters in such a customisable way that was impossible before! Mix and match your favourite class abilities to make a Character which fits YOUR concept!

    They do this already, every time they put a half-dozen rogue talents or a new bloodline (with associated feats) in a new book.


    Great interview! I heard a lot of things that make me more optimistic about PF2 than before.

    Silver Crusade

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    Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    Charlie Brooks wrote:

    Love this:

    ** spoiler omitted **

    While I would love to just toss alignment out of my game, a majority of my players like it. If there's a way to keep it without me also having to worry what the paladin will see when she detects evil, that's a huge improvement from my perspective.

    Also, this addresses one of the concerns I had early on:

    ** spoiler omitted **

    This alleviates a great many of the concerns I had ^w^


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    shaventalz wrote:
    Derry L. Zimeye wrote:
    Can someone explain what they think they meant with the revisiting Ancestry comment? I'm a little confused by that one!

    I haven't listened to the interview itself (and won't, because length), but the bullet points linked earlier almost make it look like a separate advancement track. Almost a second "racial class" type of thing in addition to the "real" class.

    I am all for auto-progression of racial abilities. Currently a lot of the most flavorful stuff for Kitsune and Aasimar are hidden behind racial feats that you have to give up actual combat ability to get.


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    Sounds like Class Feats will indeed allow you to fully customise your chosen class and when coupled with classless archetypes really will give us a huge range of direction as characters increase in power.

    (puts this in his Pipe of Optimism and puffs away merrily)


    Does having a whole edifice of "advancing ancestry features" mean that it's harder to add new ancestry options? Like I was pretty jazzed when recent player companions gave us Cecaelias and like 8 different kinds of Changeling.


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    Starfinder Charter Superscriber

    The more I hear, the more I like. So far. I'm sure there will be some things that make me go "but why?" Good thing there's a playtest.


    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    Does having a whole edifice of "advancing ancestry features" mean that it's harder to add new ancestry options? Like I was pretty jazzed when recent player companions gave us Cecaelias and like 8 different kinds of Changeling.

    This is a good point. Maybe there should be both feats and the advancing progression. I doubt that Paizo will just automatically hand over the like 20 kitsune feats there are for free.


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    Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    I just hope like heck they do NOT take the 'Attunement' path that 5e took, and restrict the number of items that are attuned like that.


    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    Does having a whole edifice of "advancing ancestry features" mean that it's harder to add new ancestry options? Like I was pretty jazzed when recent player companions gave us Cecaelias and like 8 different kinds of Changeling.

    I’m guessing you get ancestry feats at 1st and every X levels. Whereas before, a race was customized at first (alternate racial traits) and by spending feats that could be used for combat stuff, I’d bet that you now get to simply add more ancestry elements as you advance.


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    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    Does having a whole edifice of "advancing ancestry features" mean that it's harder to add new ancestry options? Like I was pretty jazzed when recent player companions gave us Cecaelias and like 8 different kinds of Changeling.

    I believe, from what I heard, that it's more likely that difference between different types of changelings may be determined by which changeling ancestry feats you select, but I could be wrong.


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    Since there isn't a CLW wand anymore are healing and HP going to get a fundamental rework beyond less but stronger? You never read Gandalf "spending 49 charges" to heal Aragon after a battle with some Orcs, but you never read about him needing them either.


    Benjamin Medrano wrote:
    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    Does having a whole edifice of "advancing ancestry features" mean that it's harder to add new ancestry options? Like I was pretty jazzed when recent player companions gave us Cecaelias and like 8 different kinds of Changeling.
    I believe, from what I heard, that it's more likely that difference between different types of changelings may be determined by which changeling ancestry feats you select, but I could be wrong.

    I think part of the use of “ancestry” is also that they could choose to release heritages as separate ancestries, or work under one ancestry.


    Corrik wrote:
    Since there isn't a CLW wand anymore are healing and HP going to get a fundamental rework beyond less but stronger? You never read Gandalf "spending 49 charges" to heal Aragon after a battle with some Orcs, but you never read about him needing them either.

    I sure hope so - I always thought that it was super weird that being at 1 HP doesn't physically affect you in any way, but without magic healing, you need to spend the next couple of month in bed to heal back to full health.


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    I wonder if that means with a Dhampir(when they bring them to 2E) will have ancestor feats that grant them vampiric powers like bat form, wolf form, spiderclimb, gaseous form, etc.


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    Corrik wrote:
    Since there isn't a CLW wand anymore are healing and HP going to get a fundamental rework beyond less but stronger? You never read Gandalf "spending 49 charges" to heal Aragon after a battle with some Orcs, but you never read about him needing them either.

    This might be wild speculation on my part, but it sounded like you can only use so many wand charges a day, shared by all Wands you own. This would mean at higher levels a clw wand would cap out on max hp quickly, making a csw wand or whatever much more desirable. Once again this is just me trying to make sense of thier explanation so this is not for sure how it works... We will see soon enough I so suppose.


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    Derklord wrote:
    Corrik wrote:
    Since there isn't a CLW wand anymore are healing and HP going to get a fundamental rework beyond less but stronger? You never read Gandalf "spending 49 charges" to heal Aragon after a battle with some Orcs, but you never read about him needing them either.
    I sure hope so - I always thought that it was super weird that being at 1 HP doesn't physically affect you in any way, but without magic healing, you need to spend the next couple of month in bed to heal back to full health.

    Exactly

    Case in point, CotCT campaign.

    Spoiler:
    Iolosa gets hit by a crossbow and just pulls the bolt out. The story treats his as an OMG!1! moment to reveal her evil powers, but most of your party could probably take 8 HP to the face at lv 1.

    Now the argument here is always that HP doesn't represent how many times you can be stabbed in the chest, but your ability to mitigate damage or to struggle through. That blow that did 75% of your HP and doesn't physically impact you wasn't you being stabbed in the chest, that was you expending effort to turn it in to a more minor blow. But what happens when you go to heal that?

    "Cool, so I shrug that off after some rest?"

    "What? Don't be stupid, you were stabbed in the chest. You need magic or surgery, otherwise it's a few weeks of bed rest."

    Doesn't jive and the wand of CLW was the only thing keeping the party going. HP actually isn't the only thing that will need an overhaul. AC and attack system will as well. You have HP because offense heavily outweighs defense and the system assumes you'll get regularly hit, even if you focus on defense. Taking auto hits to the chest without a CLW to keep things going is going to be a HARD no for me.

    Dark Archive

    Being shot in the face is equivalent of being coup de grace'd :p

    Coup de grace is pretty much best example of how HP can be only interpreted as abstraction: Apparently if you can't move and someone cuts your throat/stabs you in heart you'll die unless you get incredibly lucky even if normal crit damage from it wouldn't have made your hp go under 0.

    But as you said, it becomes weird considering how long it takes without magical healing... So let's just hope new way to heal they made in 2e makes it make more sense xD


    Interesting, we knew Magic Missile was something that could shoot more missles if you put more actions to it, but in the interview they specifically said you apply more components to the spells for the more missiles.


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    Xethik wrote:
    Alexander Augunas wrote:
    Dragon78 wrote:
    So do you still get regular feats?
    Yup! Erik and Logan described it as “streamlining the terminology.” So you get different feats from different things. Example: rogue feats are gained from taking levels in the rogue class, and are comparable to 1E’s rogue talents. They are hoping that by standardizing the language, the game becomes easier to learn.
    I'm still curious how "normal feats" work, if they exist. Is there a list of feats that can be taken by any class, such as proficiency feats or multiclassing feats?

    My hunch is they no longer exist.

    "combat feats" will probably be gained by "martial" classes, included hybrids. More "general" feats will probably be attached to ancestry, or skills, or background.

    As an example, using PF feats (which might not exist in pf2), you could get "iron Will" from your ancestry feat, "skill focus" from your background feat, "mobility" from your skill (acrobatics) feat, "rapid shot" from your combat/martial feat, and "silent spell" from your caster feat.


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    Greylurker wrote:
    Interesting, we knew Magic Missile was something that could shoot more missles if you put more actions to it, but in the interview they specifically said you apply more components to the spells for the more missiles.

    In the game shown in the podcast, I think someone said that a verbal spell took 1 action, while verbal+somatic took 2.

    I really like this kind of uniformity. Helps A LOT to remember which spells are verbal vs verbal+somatic (and I guess material adds a third action?)


    gustavo iglesias wrote:
    Xethik wrote:
    Alexander Augunas wrote:
    Dragon78 wrote:
    So do you still get regular feats?
    Yup! Erik and Logan described it as “streamlining the terminology.” So you get different feats from different things. Example: rogue feats are gained from taking levels in the rogue class, and are comparable to 1E’s rogue talents. They are hoping that by standardizing the language, the game becomes easier to learn.
    I'm still curious how "normal feats" work, if they exist. Is there a list of feats that can be taken by any class, such as proficiency feats or multiclassing feats?

    My hunch is they no longer exist.

    "combat feats" will probably be gained by "martial" classes, included hybrids. More "general" feats will probably be attached to ancestry, or skills, or background.

    As an example, using PF feats (which might not exist in pf2), you could get "iron Will" from your ancestry feat, "skill focus" from your background feat, "mobility" from your skill (acrobatics) feat, "rapid shot" from your combat/martial feat, and "silent spell" from your caster feat.

    Interview mentioned Skill Feats as a seperate thing from Class Feats.

    and Class feats are sounding like Rogue Talents, so kind of RGG's whole Talented Class line of stuff.

    Paizo Employee Designer

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    QuidEst wrote:
    Benjamin Medrano wrote:
    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    Does having a whole edifice of "advancing ancestry features" mean that it's harder to add new ancestry options? Like I was pretty jazzed when recent player companions gave us Cecaelias and like 8 different kinds of Changeling.
    I believe, from what I heard, that it's more likely that difference between different types of changelings may be determined by which changeling ancestry feats you select, but I could be wrong.
    I think part of the use of “ancestry” is also that they could choose to release heritages as separate ancestries, or work under one ancestry.

    There is actually something called a "heritage feat" among ancestry feats that you pick up at 1st level. You'll have to wait for more info on those until we blog about races!


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    CorvusMask wrote:

    Being shot in the face is equivalent of being coup de grace'd :p

    Coup de grace is pretty much best example of how HP can be only interpreted as abstraction: Apparently if you can't move and someone cuts your throat/stabs you in heart you'll die unless you get incredibly lucky even if normal crit damage from it wouldn't have made your hp go under 0.

    But as you said, it becomes weird considering how long it takes without magical healing... So let's just hope new way to heal they made in 2e makes it make more sense xD

    It's also a bit weird when used together with attacks that have "rider" abilities.

    "the dragon crushes you. He puts 50 tons of weight over you, now you cannot move because of the weight, literaly being crushed by his gargantuan claw. You lose 15% of your hp. However, it's not a real injury, it's stamina lost in the effort to dodge. You are still pinned"

    "the mighty colossus scorpion does 50% of your hp. Its huge sting swings near you, and you miracously dodge it, losing hp because of the effort to dodge it. You roll for poison because the sting actually hit you".

    "the tyrannosaurus hit you, grab you with his enormous jaws, and start to chew you, doing automatic bite damage every round. Your lost hp while in that inferno of 2 feet long fangs is all due to fatigue and stress".


    Maybe class feats every two levels, plus skill/ancestry feats every four levels? That gives you an option every level, and would certainly justify “more customization”.

    Backgrounds might allow access to or grant a class feat from another class. But there might also be a background to focus on ancestry, or one to focus on a skill.

    That would explain why the assumption that background feats were background-locked was treated as wrong.


    Hero points implies a lot. Meta-currencies are common across RPGs, often triggering on character personality traits to reward roleplaying.

    I like Alchemist being around because otherwise there is only one class that explicitly wants INT.

    No zero level spells is interesting.

    I'm glad that there's an emphasis on keeping the game complex. I will be upset if it's not easy enough for newer players because I was actually hoping to replace 5e on my shelf.

    I love tags.

    Having X-talents that were a separate thing from feats was probably redundant. I'm guessing that this will cause more talent slots to be eaten rather than feat slots allowing you to decide how into the class you are. For example; Alchemist has bombs, extracts and Mutagens for class features but often times I came for just one or two of those things. replacing one or two of those items with feats that bolster the remaining would be great.


    I wonder if "class features you select" (e.g. Rage Powers) being relabeled as "feats" (which is fine, it's basically what they were anyway) means in terms of whether they're going to let everybody take stuff like "extra hex" or "extra rage power" by letting people spend normal feats on class feats.


    Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    gustavo iglesias wrote:


    It's also a bit weird when used together with attacks that have "rider" abilities.

    "the dragon crushes you. He puts 50 tons of weight over you, now you cannot move because of the weight, literaly being crushed by his gargantuan claw. You lose 15% of your hp. However, it's not a real injury, it's stamina lost in the effort to dodge. You are still pinned"

    "the mighty colossus scorpion does 50% of your hp. Its huge sting swings near you, and you miracously dodge it, losing hp because of the effort to dodge it. You roll for poison because the sting actually hit you".

    "the tyrannosaurus hit you, grab you with his enormous jaws, and start to chew you, doing automatic bite damage every round. Your lost hp while in that inferno of 2 feet long fangs is all due to fatigue and stress".

    ...admittedly, it would be exceptionally fatiguing and stressful to be put into those situations...

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