Nolzur's Orb

David Jackson 60's page

564 posts (582 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 7 aliases.

order #920417

I'm sorry that's the order number that did NOT get shipped. I want to make sure I'm not getting charged twice for the same thing, as I re-ordered, and I also wanted to make sure I'm still getting the PDF.

I need a clarification on this.

I noticed that quicken spell can be used by spontaneous casters, which made me rather happy, but the wording of it in the beta seem to imply that it was ONLY for spontaneous casters.

Did the wizard get robbed out of quicken spell? I can't imagine that would be consistent with backwards compatiblity.

Please tell me this is incorrect.

I had a copy of the beta ordered and now it's not on my order history.

I did just change credit cards...did that bump it off? I changed today which is the first day I activated the card...shouldn't it still be on there?

I was paging thru some of my old D&D books and I realized I miss some of the old paintings and drawings in the older book.

I enjoy the new art as well, but I was wondering if we will ever get some paintings and drawings in the trippy, standstill fashion of the older books.

Any chance?

**Lurks some more**

**looks for other night-lurkers**

There were a few threads on necromancer earlier and a bit more hope to push the envelope on them as far as undead control, or at least something to give them a boost already pale (no pun intended) in comparison to the cleric.

Well I was writing up a character and thinking a bit on the progression when it hit me exactly how effected this character will be by the changes away from SoD...I do remember playing several necromancers already and one of their few saving graces was the ability to drop death on an enemy instantly at higher levels.

With that gone, Necromancers really are hurting a bit. I found myself a bit sad making one up for play with the new alpha. I don't see much change that will give the necromancer a boost in comparison to the old seeing is the change for the wizard was fairly lateral if not lessening.

Please consider some further changes to the necromancer going into the beta stage.

I don't like SoD's gone from the game, but I understand the need for them to be. The problem is that the SoD's did so fantastically well to convey that you are about to die via horrible necromantic magic. The damage just doesn't convey the same thing.

Now this new version of the spell may produce a massive damage roll needed, but at DC 15, at higher level that's nothing. This massive damage roll does add a bit of the same flavor back to the spell, but being so ineffective makes it not very exciting.

As a solution, I propose that if a save vs Massive damage is called for by spells like Finger of Death or slay living, you allow the primary Stat modifier (int for wizard, Cha for sorcerer, Wis for druid or cleric) to be added to the massive damage DC.

This means that for the massive damage to take place, you still need to do enough to cause massive damage and the first save would have to be failed, but also the chance of instant death is still there in more of a real sort of way.

I've tried to think up SoD alternatives for this and this is the best one I thought up.

The monk gets the "magical" equivalent to his attacks, overcoming DR/Magic.

Does that then equal the +1 equivalent to damage reduction? Does the monk then overcome the P/S/B DR with that ability or does that not confer and only apply to magic?

If not, given the new DR rules this complicates the monk. The expensive amulet of the mighty fists then has a much greater roll in the monks arsenal. I like the optional idea of handwraps (especially to convey additional abilities to the monk like bane or ghost touch) but this would also make it important would it not?

He can of course use monk weapons, but I always like to avoid those if possible. Since the golf-bag idea has been tossed out with the new DR rules (YEA!) I think there should also be an effort to simplify the character that isn't supposed to need alot of gear...the monk.

Things like changes to spells, changes to DR, and rule-clarifications that I hope are comming are changing a bit of my opinions regarding the playtests.

Along with the character changes, this starts to make the characters a bit more balanced. For example the monk still looks like he needs a bit more, but I really don't know what will effect CMB (such as being flat footed). The monk can kick out some serious CMB with the new skills and bonus feats...he can also stun which adds +4 to the check. He has stealth and mobility...if being caught flatfooted can change CMB somewhat (which makes more than perfect sense to me and I seriously hope it does) this changes my view of how powerful the character is.

Same thing with Quicken Spell. My guess is there will be some change to this seeing is the Sorcerer seems to now have access to it, but I don't know if thats the total extent or if there is more. If it's nerfed then it's yet another control on the casters, which changes my view of the balance.

Has anybody else had this feeling?

It looks like the sorcerer now gets some bonus spells in addition to his normal spell choices (somebody correct me if I'm seeing this wrong). This adds a bit more to the list of spells for the sorcerer so I see this as a positive change.

We now have Eschew Materials at first level, the bloodlines have an attached class skill, and some of the bloodline mechanics and abilities seem to be reworked (which I won't take time to list because I don't have a copy of the old alpha, replacing the file with the current one).

I dig the changes, my only real complaint is that the sorc I drew up having the Arcane bloodline will still be sporting the dreaded crossbow at 1st level, but other than that I'm fairly happy seeing is all the bonus spells on the arcane list are must-have spells in my book.

I am also still wondering about the Quicken Spell feat on the dragon bloodline. My assumption to this has been that the sorcerer can now use quicken as a wizard can, but it could well be that it can only be used by the dragon bloodline I suppose. This is fairly important, given the fact the quicken spell is one of the most powerful feats in the game at higher level...still hoping for clarification on this one.

How does everybody feel about the sorcerer changes?

Does anybody remember this comic-show?

This is a personal favorite of mine and you can see a ton of the episodes on Youtube.

Worth a watch people... I give you The Maxx!


Oh, just to clarify, I have been assuming that since the CMB rolls take the place of an attack action, any penalties to attack also apply to CMB penalties.

This seems to work out rather well, but I'm not sure if the reverse is the same.

So I guess I have another question besides the issue about being caught flatfooted... do penalties to attack effect CMB, and if they do, do those penalties also apply if the person/creature with the penalty is the one having a Combat maneuver used on it (example: a creature with a normal DC = 15+10(bab)+2)str would have instead DC=15+10+2-4(cursed) if attacked with a combat maneuver)?

Same thing.

Did not recieve gazetteer.

Why exactly can't these function like temporary HP?

Is there some kind of intermingling issue that causes this to be a big problem?

I was just reading through Burnt offerings again (seeing is I'm giving it a swing online) and I realized there is a high likelyhood that this pathfinder society pecking order may well resemble your staff at Paizo.

So who are the Venture Captains supposed to represent if so?

This has been stated on a few threads and I think the concept deserves one of it's own.

I would like to have everybody keep in mind that the stuff being written in Pathfinder should use itself and the OGL as a comparison more-so than non-OGL material...specifically things that measure abilities against others.

The two that stick out in my mind due to recent debate are natural spell and the Beguiler. You could make an argument for both that these are overpowered abilities. I don't allow natural spell in my game for exactly that reason, but I know many others do, enjoying the additional material.

I think non-OGL stuff is good for examples of flavor or like minded concepts in theory and not actual function.

I don't think it's that good of a backdrop to compare power levels and the core classes always.

In the end, the only thing this has to do with non-OGL stuff is if it's backwards compatible so people can either take whats in pathfinder and put it into 3.5, or take what's in 3.5 and put it into pathfinder (hopefully with minimal conversion effort, which currently seems to be the case).

Do these bonuses stack upon themselves even if they do not stack with a weapons?

Could a 20th level Paladin facing a chaotic evil Ice-demon turn his +5 sword into a +5 holy-axiomatic-flaming burst sword? (basically doing 1d8+str+5+4d6+1d6x2 damage)

As far as I can tell, this is the Paladins best ability now. I'm not sure given this option why I would choose to take the mount unless I REALLY cared for the flavor or was specifically building a character around mounted combat alone.

Are there any plans to make this more than a 1-time per day ability?

OH and why no Ghost touch? :P

I still don't know if you can wield any melee weapon with this ability or not.

Can this be used to wield a longsword, even though it's not a weapon of the wizard? This is a question I would still like to be answered.

Also, My suggestion on regarding the hand is a feat giving it the ability to wield a two handed weapons and some other abilities that sound fun to me. Perhaps this would be better as a prestige class suggestion but I thought it was neat so I figured to share. While I'm not sure if it can wield a longsword, I'm guessing it cannot wield a two handed weapon.

Hand of the Adept
Your hand of the apprentice becomes strong enough to lift bigger weapons.
Prerequisites: Hand of the apprentice ability, 13 Intelligence
Benefit: You are now able to wield a two-handed weapon with your hand of the apprentice ability.

Hand of the Mage:
You have learned to channel touch spells through your hand of the apprentice ability.
Prerequisites: Hand of the apprentice ability, Base attack bonus +3, 15 intelligence
Benefit:As a full round action, you can deliver a touch spell of 3rd level or less through a successful attack with your hand of the apprentice ability.

Hand of the Wizard
Your ability to control your hand of the apprentice has become second nature.
Prerequisites:Hand of the apprentice ability, Base attack bonus +5, 17 intelligence
Benefit: You can concentrate on your hand of the apprentice ability in place of a move action instead of a standard action.

Hand of the Arch-mage:
Your ability to channel magic through your hand of the apprentice ability has been mastered.
Prerequisites:Hand of the apprentice ability, base attack bonus +7, 19 intelligence
Benefit:As a full round action, you can deliver a touch spell of 6th level or less through a successful attack with your hand of the apprentice ability.

Anyway you get the point... you could have a feat where it threatened AoEs, allow a full attack action, or really a number of effects. This might be better as a prestige class ability but I thought the idea was solid.

Making the barbarian was fairly similar as always seeing is the first level difference is minimal minus the overall system changes.

Drayk the barbarian

I walked around the obvious orcish pick and went half-elf on this character.

The obvious difference in character creation is the skill points. I liked the 1.1 alpha system better, but the new way still is massively less taxing and annoying than the original concept. With 4 skills and a 12 INT, picking was pretty easy too taking: Acrobatics, Perception, Survial, Climb, & Intimidate.

Once again, one skill glaringly stood out, which I like. Given the half-elf bonuses, their free skill focus, and perception as a class skill, my perception sat at 10 for finding or hearing sneaks at first level.

The only real picking problem at this point was the decision to take either improved trip or overhand chop (which in use while raging is impressive at first level). I went with trip to play with the CMB.


Ok what gives?

I saw this and then quickly paged thru the feats to see if perhaps we have a new definition for quicken, but alas nothing.

What am I missing here...or is this just here incase the sorc goes multiclass? teh awesome.

Magical horses are for girl paladins.

That is all.

OK, so I love the idea to recharge the staff. I always hated the idea that I have created this potent iconic item that will go Kaput in about 2 weeks. In fact, this is something I couldn't tolerate much at all.

I do have a concern about the recharge rate and the cost though. 1 charge for maximum level means that at 18th level I spend a 9th level slot to add an "ice storm" to my staff of frost. It seems a rather steep trade.

If this was to limit the power of the staff in between game sessions I understand, but I think the cost is still rather high.

Perhaps you guys can tell me the design concept behind it.

Thusfar I like everything I have seen in the new release (I've only read it for a few minutes) but I have a concern about the staff and the ability to recharge.

Now I love the ability to recharge, but if I use those powers but the recharge would make no sense to use in most cases given that it's "highest spell slot" for a single charge...therefor I would assume that you would never recharge the staff in the middle of an adventure, because the spell would be more useful.

I mean at 18th level I would be trading a 9th level spell for the ability to do "ice storm" if I had a staff of frost. Not a very good tradeoff in my mind.

I do LOVE the idea and I hate the concept that I'm a wizard with this powerful iconic item...and that item will go KAPUT in the span of about a week or two (I always hated that with a passion), so sweet on that fact.

If it's a game design to kind of limit use to a specific amount per game session then cool, but I still think a higher level spell slot should power up the staff a bit quicker.

I have the next two days off. I currently require you to release the info you have been holding on the pathfinder alpha

I have this summary document on how we feel on the matter. Note this hold-out shall not stand:

Summary document

BTW, I'm wickederror (my sig on most other boards).

This was posted by me on the strange thread that has turned into some kind of wierd internet-legal-combat on the WotC page. I thought it deserved it's own thread here.

I just subscribed to your modules, but I have issue because I already ordered two that are getting shipped.

I signed up because I want the PDF's but I really don't want to purchase 2 copies of the "monsters revisited" book.

What do I do?

Do I have to return the other in the mail or can you guys just fix it?

By the way, the order number is 938906

I'm not one for hampering the brainstorming process, but this has to be said.

Since we have all played tabletop games, we pretty much have a good grasp of the community. In general the community is full of clever, imaginative people chalked full of good ideas. Lying amongst this field of bright ideas are landmines of tragic thought.

My fellow gaming companion and I were remenicing of old campaigns and the people we played with, and came to the realization of what a system would look like given some of the bizarre house-rules or hangups they had with the game. After doing this, I felt it important to point out that there will certainly be some bad suggestions posted for new rules and thought it fitting to point some of them out. Here are some bad suggestions.

SR 3 monsters:
"This is a high-magic world, so everything has grown slightly immune to magic...even animals."
"Yea but only a little. Animals have an SR 3."

The concept of SR 3 monsters gives me a feeling similar to drinking a slurpee too fast. Wow. That's annoying on a new level...squirrels with 5% chance of ignoring my burning hands spell. Barring a newfound facination with magic-resistant rodents, let's leave this one lying on the side of the road.

Fat Iconics:
"Did you see all the people in the players handbook? They're all skinny. WTF is up with that?"
"What, just because I'm fat doesn't mean I can't be heroic?"
Well... the dwarf is a bit chubby...
"Don't patronize me. Fat people obviously aren't encouraged to play the game."
"I bet there are fat monsters."

Now I was chubby growing up...hell I'm still a bit. I'm an athlete and if I stop training for a few months I put on 25lbs...just the way I am. We all have hangups over something. There might be a fine line between "hangup" and "rubber-chicken swinging insanity", but the line is clearly there. Let's try not to step over it, shall we?

Arbitrary combat modifiers:
"Have you ever tried to fight with a bad case of hayfever?...Seriously it's harder than it sounds."
I'm not adding seasonal hayfever modifiers into my game.
"What, we travel all over the world and nobody is allergic to anything at any season? That's highly unlikely dude.
Damn, the game is broken I guess. Too late now, let's move on.
"I have a table written up, here take a...
NO...just roll already please.

Somehow, someway, somebody will always find it pertinent to add some kind of bizarre combat modifier to the game that doesn't currently exist for the purpose of enhanced realism. Let me clarify by saying NO. NO. Oh, and NO. House ruling in something for injuries when you are dropped to 10% HP... ok I can see that, but it should be a house-rule I say. Combat modifiers when you have to pee really bad?...Just roll the dice...please lord, roll the dice for them, or hit me with a bolt of lightning and end my suffering.

Skill or feat obsession:
"Dude, why can't there be a feat for uchi-mata?"
That falls under grappling.
"Look I like the grappling stuff you houseruled, but no uchi-mata? Why the hell not?'
It's a gelatinous cube, dude. Even if there was an "uchi-mata" feat it's not happening.
"All this stuff is clearly non-gi based...why do you hate Judo?"
What? I don't hate Judo...*sigh* Just roll please.
"Yes you do. It's obvious."
I think I'm blacking out...

Given some of my own houserules and obsessions I can understand this a bit, but that line is crossed when I no longer know my own obscure obsession doesn't belong in a core handbook. Regardless of how much you are fascinated with the process behind crafting baseballs in a medieval fantasy setting, or your insistence that "breeding gerbils" is a whole different level of complexity than most forms of animal husbandry deserving it's own mechanics, please consider if the finer points of gerbil breeding have in any way taken hold in popular culture enough to assume that anybody is interested besides you. That or warn me before I read the thread, so I don't feel compelled to beat myself to death with the oversized stapler on the corner of my desk after reading it.

Good gaming. putting out stuff like Classic Monsters Revisited.

I had no choice but to buy it and go over my gaming budget.

This will not be forgotten... I feel abused!

No love?

Come on now!

Ok, now I'm sure there is some kind of publishing force at Paizo looking at this new initiative saying, "You have XX number of pages to use for this more no less. IF you go over given page amount, you will be forced to play a 3.0 bard half-orc with 7 Charisma for the next 6 months during gaming, while everybody else plays the shiny new Paizo characters."

That being said, I would love to see a new class.

A new class included in the core would really set this book apart as it's own thing. Just one. It would not only give us a really hard line showing the difference but would also give us an example of just what you all can do for new mechanical material.

This is a bit greedy, and I'm sure your resident editor and publicist would be squirming at such a suggestion, but I think you could get over on them by making them a T-shirt that said, "I'm a Page-Nazi", and leaving it in a box on the hood of their car.

That or you may find your favorite feat erased from the book...but what the hell it's worth the risk.

How do you feel about a new class?

Now there are certain things I love about the Monk even though he has to sit in the back of the bus with the bard on the way to school, while the wizard and rogue pass him up in their new car bought by mommy and daddy...pointing and laughing at their misfortune.

First thing I love about the monk is how blatantly annoying it is as an enemy combatant. You don't know annoying until you are faced with a band of enemy monks at 12th level... all with fantastic saving throws, improved evasion, an extra 30 feet of movement, a maxed out escape artist skill, extra resistance to enchantments, and the ability to deflect arrows all while running around like crazed chickens tripping and stunning my players...just when you think you have it cornered this time it dimension doors and heals itself. At high enough level, it won't even die when you kick it of a mountain.

I get a weird amusement from this type of encounter every time I run it.

But alas, the encounter is short lived because playing a monk isn't quite as much fun as the encounter is, and the encounter is at best a way to drain some resources out of my players after they have collected too much garbage and insist on trying to take a magical wagon up the mountainside or thru the chest-deep swampruins.

One of the biggest problems with the monk is that it's best offensive ability relies on exactly what it shouldn't do...stand in one place and attack.

I think the solution to this is pretty easy...make the flurry of blows ability a /day ability with ample uses like the barbarians rage and let it be used as a standard action.

Is there any compatibility problems with this I don't see?

This is just an idea, but with Paizo's decent ability to throw some PDF's around, would it be possible to get a copy of the Crimson Throne adventure set up specifically for this new alpha test, or is that something that is being waited on until the beta release?

I'm currently running the pathfinder modules...the first non-homebrew in quite a while and I would love to have that module set up specifically to give some tests.

Given the new idea of a skill-buy and given the fact that feats have always been able to alter feats a bit, my brain inevitably goes to the idea of buying skills with feats as an option.

What I was thinking:

One or multiple feats that do the following:

1) Buy one crossclassed feat not taken and make it a taken class-feat.

2) Buy two class feats not taken and make them class feats.

3) Buy two cross-classed feats taken and make them class feats.

If that is too powerful then:

1) Buy one class feat

2) Make a taken cross-classed feat a class feat.

I'm sure taking this project on a revised version of 3.5, you have some goals in mind.

I'm sure you have stated them, but I guess I would love to hear a specific list.

So far what I've come up with is:

1) Make a book that can replace The PHB and DMG once it goes out of print.

2) Keep the system as compatible as possible with 3.5, so conversion between the two is relatively quick and painless.

3) Get rid of the "dead" levels characters sometimes get.

4) Make the skill system more usable via consolidation and mechanical makeup change.

5) Alter the feat system to give players (specifically those engaged in melee combat) some more options and perhaps a bit more power and versatility.

6) Change the combat maneuvers into something a bit less cumbersome and distracting to the game, while keeping all the options.

7) Give some of the characters that lack some power and/or versatility (namely the fighter, monk, and bard...hopefully) some improvement so they can get off the 2nd string bench.

8) Even out the classes a bit, while keeping their flavor intact.

9) Make 1st level play with slightly less possibility of a quick demise due to one bad dice-roll.

10) Stay in business, instead of banking your companies future on somebody else's. :P

Is there anything I blatantly missed or is that about it?

Well I have some concerns about and I would like some feedback for anybody who may think the same.

The Wizard:

1) The Universal school power progression of the wizard is too high at the top. I'm guessing they already know this, seeing is it was a question on the poll and am just wondering publicly how many people think so as well. I took the poll before I really examined all the way thru and feel I should go back and change my answer from I don't know to YES.

2) With the extra feats you get, I really don't think it's necessary for the elf to get spell penetration automatically and feel it's a bit overpowering and steers the elf too hard towards "wizard" along with it's automatic bonus to intelligence. Actually I think the elf-traits along with the INT bonus already makes the elf a fine choice for wizard and don't think I really need the extra incentive of spell penetration to make the character worthwhile... I would rather have a different ability in that regard or simply as-is without. Perhaps something like +2 to spellcraft checks if anything or +2 to Knowledge (arcana) checks.

3) For that matter, I wouldn't mind seeing Knowledge (arcana) and spellcraft merged.

The Fighter:

1) I like the fact you have enough + attack options to now advance well with both range and melee combat. This along with the new combat feats gives the fighter alot more depth and options, but still the fighter is lacking in one area of attack...he has little if no way to effect the saves. I would love to see some fighter (or non-caster) abilities that effect the saves. I'm not sure how hard this would be to implement but I really think it's needed.

2) The fighter has greater use of skills due to the armor advancement that lessens the armor-check penalty. That being said, the fighter is still short on skills. I wouldn't mind seeing the fighter start out with 3+INT skills or perhaps even 4+INT. Some of the skills would end up being crossclassed by the time you got up to higher levels given what he can take, so it would add minor ability without stepping on the rogues and rangers toes for what he can do.

3) While I like the combat feats, I would kind of like the first part of many of the progressions to be non-combat if possible, such as cleave, precise shot, and Dodge. Dodge is +1 vs one's not overpowering by any means while stacking with another effect. I think you should be able to use that and at least precise shot automatically with other effects.

4) The fighter still lacks some defensive ability that simply doesn't come with AC or HP. I wouldn't mind seeing perhaps a +1 to REFX and WILL in the mid-levels of the fighter, either in addition to or instead of two of the Weapon and Armor training bonuses. While the other classes have abilities to either alter these through magic or pick up class-specific skills like the rogue does, the fighter has none, which kind of leaves him at the mercy of his party in many cases. Either something different, or a direct effect that helps this out would be nice, perhaps at the cost of a small bit of the massive feat-type-progression he now has. Maybe even increase his Reflex progression to high or give him basic evasion at 10-15th...although both of those seem a bit drastic and may be overpowering.

I really like the new system being worked out and it doesn't look like I will have much of a problem converting all my stuff. Either way, the fact that the style of my game design and play will be kept in tact with a living product really makes me happy.

I would love to hear some feedback on what everybody thinks about the wizard and fighter, and if they found the same things I did.

I may be getting too far along here, seeing is you are working on the first world. :P

Paizo has always done a terrific job of making adventures and material for traditional D&D settings and their own stuff in my book.

One thing I have yet to see is an actual lower magic world. Almost all of the settings fall somewhere between mid to high...pushing towards high. I would love to see an actual setting that borderlines the other direction, pushing towards mid to low instead.

Now the system isn't specifically designed for this I know, but most of the homebrewed material I see tends to push this direction to fill the niche that has never really been filled.

Is there a possibility in the distant future (after you get the new game set) that you would possibly build something that is on the lower end of the scale (not where magic is absent but where it's more rare)?

Is anybody at Paizo mildly interested by such an undertaking, or is their no market for it?

I'm getting the impression there is some kind of line in the sand from the posters here, which I'm not sure is really there

Now I will certainly be playing Pathfinder and don't have much interest in 4th...especially now, but does this announcement mean that no 4th Ed material will come out, ever?

The conversions will currently be done by the fans, but really I'm not sure any other way can exist at the moment can it? Paizo doesn't even have the ability to preview the gaming system even if it wanted to...certainly this kind of means since the two new editions are so blatantly different the game would basically have to be re-written from the ground up which would take a good deal of time...much moreso than converting to something like true20.

I find it a bit strange because a rather small number of posters here and elsewhere said they are dropping their subscription as soon as possible...this makes little sense seeing as the current subscription isn't for 4th, and it looks likely that no 3rd party gaming producer (now 1st I guess for all intents and purposes :P) will be putting out much of anything until well into 2009 at the earliest.

Perhaps since the majority of it's fans love the old system or other systems, it wouldn't be cost-effective but I'm still not sure that's some kind of line in the sand that has been sworn never to be crossed.



This board almost turned me off the the Wizards website entirely.

Basically putting up anything negative about 4th Ed (especially since the new spell list has come out) you can basically draw the wrath of 95% of the board. This board in "MAX TROLLING CAPABILITY" has become second only to the My little Pony fan forums in maximum's absolutely aweful.

Any non-trolling concerns are met with a group of snotty comments questioning the posters intelligence, and when the poster has some minor inkling of sniping back at the wall of brat-ism, a mod pops up and tells everybody to remain "civil"...after a halfpage of veiled insults and potshots at the OP or commenting party.

Their concerns and critcism's section has become a pom-pom gallery with almost a quarter of the threads being about what is terrible with 3.5 and another quarter being about what is NOT wrong with 4th Ed and why people who disagree are wrong. Seriously this place is amazing.

Seriously, I almost feel dirty going there and downloading charater sheets now...this from a website I have had bookmarked for several years (not that the content was that mind-blowing, but still it was enjoyable).

Out of all the gaming boards that I have seen, Wizards takes the taco as most unlikeable for me.

I'm glad I can come here and a few other places and still read and talk about gaming.

Ya know, I just really wrapped my head around this one.

I'm pretty sure I have also just lost all interest in this game, I will wait to see the higher level spell and save mechanics, but basically I think this may be the nail in the coffin for me.

Spells and effects now have a "to hit" vs a save but this is to hit and is not the save.

Saves are also now based of two stats, taking whichever bonus is higher: Fort (con,str) Refx (dex,int) Will (wis,cha).

The actual save occurs if a spell takes effect. The save occurs at the end of a creature or players turn to end the effect and this is done round after round for the vast majority of spells and effects. The save is a strait 55% chance of success regardless of spell level, caster level, or level of the creature/player making the save.

Some creatures have an ability to get a higher save against certain effects and spells (spell resistant creatures will probably have a strait bonus vs all spells I'm guessing). There are also a large number of game effects that give a creature/player an immediate or extra saves.

Like I said, I will wait to get a full grasp of the mechanics, but I think i know where this is boring-town, annoying-ville, or pathetic-city for me and my wizard.

This is the MMO/video game effect of the wizard and it looks like 90% of the time this will be the role with little variation to mechanics. What the controller will do is spam AoE effects for either damage or constantly failing spell effects that will need to constantly be maintained during the course of the battle...basically defining the roll for the controller to this and this alone.

All the battles are based on groups of creatures now and you have unlimited minor spell effects....and you will need them because basically everything will save from your spell effects within a round or two. This means two things to me. One, I will do what I end up doing in MMO's with my wizard charater. Two, the wizard with low HP and saves(from what I have seen in comparison to the other 4th ed example charater sheets) will be basically useless on its own in comparison to the other classes.

I could be wrong on those assumptions, but if I'm right...well I will see you at the gamestore if you want to play 3.5.