Graypelt

Cyberwolf2xs's page

Organized Play Member. 359 posts (774 including aliases). No reviews. 2 lists. No wishlists. 4 aliases.



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doc the grey wrote:
You know I didn't think about it before but in pathfinder I would totally have that happen next, I mean your talking about one hell of a loss of life and an explosion powerful enough to probably knock a hole into another plane. Will say though I think it would be more daemons then demons or devils. God that would be horrifying, could you imagine making that reflex save, living through that insanity, and then you see a small horde of daemons starting to peel out of the puncture holes in reality that this bomb has made?

Oh yeah, I like that idea since I read Lukyanenko's Watch pentalogy (Nochnoi Dozor and the sequels - oh and yes, the books are WAY better than the movies).

If you don't know what I'm talking about: in that world, you got the material plane and several "levels" of the "twilight" on top of that (think of several layers of an astral/shadow plane) - it takes magic to access the first, and each layer requires geometrically more power to enter and remain in it. A nuclear blast ruptures ruptures through all of them.

Regarding the OP:

I'd say, whatever amount of damage you settle for, the effect should be composed of fire, sonic (heat and shockwave) and untyped (radiation) damage, with reflex saves only helping against fire and sonic (because you can't dodge radiation), plus direct con damage, plus con/str damaging poison effect, plus blindness & deafness (fort save), plus flying/falling debris (additional reflex saves).

For good measure, add a bunch of dispel magic effect vs every active spell or magic item in the area of effect, because the raw energy literally blasts away the magic.

Oh, and btw... I think nuclear blasts are things which should make you think about implementing other types of subsystems for handling explosion damage. Like the one Shadowrun uses: every explosion has a base damage which is reduced by a certain amount per range increment between you and the center of the explosion.
In a smaller scale or for magical effects (like a fireball), the normal rules are fast and easy, but it just makes no sense that a subject touching the bomb takes just as much damage as a subject that's 5 ft in the max range.


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Congratulations! You've been nominated for the "strangest thread title of the year" award.


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There's also this 1200 page monster of a thread on the wizards of the coast board.

The photoshop artists there are great. They work best if you come up with a picture to use as a basis. Ask nicely and chances are someone will modify the picture however you want.

I'd especially take a look at the links provided in this post. I think you can find a basis for almost anything in these galleries.


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Always have some kind of wind spell running, because you like to "feel the breeze" or something. Fly around, use clouds as cover, nuke everything with lightning.

Well, it obviously depends on your level, but... If someone annoys you, send a negotiator to their village and have him tell them that you will cast control weather for the rest of the year if they don't do what you want.
When their crops, cattle and houses are gone, they will understand to not disturb the peace of your forest again. ;)


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Milton, Chadwick & Waters

(Hey, it's Satan's personal law firm.)


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"Familiar" evolves to "Improved Familiar"!

SCNR.


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The Knowledge Skill description says

Quote:
You can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s CR. For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster’s CR. For particularly rare monsters, such as the tarrasque, the DC of this check equals 15 + the monster’s CR or more. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster. For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information.

If you pass the check, I think you should get "a bit" (+1 per 5 above DC) that you don't already know just by looking at the creature.

Depending on the creature, such "a bit" could be one of the "Special Quality" entries, a special sense it possesses, an elemental resistance/immunity/weakness, the material/alignment that penetrates its DR, which saving throw/AC type/CMD is the lowest...
But of course also stuff like standard behaviour, like telling them wether the creature will normally go for whoever shouts at it/tries to flee/smells of blood, wether it will leave its lair to follow them or loses interest as soon as they get out of its sight, wether it is a solitary living creature or if they have to be ready for more of it...
That means you could need some collective rolls to remember everything important.

Oh, btw, I found another bit regarding the library thing, also under the skill description:

Quote:
You cannot make an untrained Knowledge check with a DC higher than 10. If you have access to an extensive library that covers a specific skill, this limit is removed. The time to make checks using a library, however, increases to 1d4 hours. Particularly complete libraries might even grant a bonus on Knowledge checks in the fields that they cover.

So yeah. Basically what I said earlier. ;)


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cmastah wrote:

Ok, here's the thing:

One of my players is likely to go cavalier and will be riding into battle. Now my problem is, since the mount is large (human riding a horse), does that mean the space taken up is 2x2? What about the cavalier's lance, does that mean that when he charges, he'll end up with the horse ADJACENT to the target? Since the lance has reach, will that mean that there'll be 5' of space between the mount and the target or does that reach start from a different point within the 2x2 (meaning the horse will still be adjacent to the target)? Also, since the horse is large, does it have reach (I can't imagine it does though)?

1a&d. Yes, the horse takes up 2x2 squares (10 ft by 10 ft). Its reach is, however, only 5 ft (5ft / 10 ft reach is the main difference between size category large (tall) and large (long) - as this table shows).

1b&c. The Mounted Combat rules say that "For simplicity, assume that you share your mount's space during combat", which means that you effectively count as possessing every square that your mount possesses, and that your reach is effectively enlarged by 5 ft.
Therefore, your second assumption is correct: if you make a mounted charge with a lance (or other reach weapon), the mount itself ends up with one free 5 ft square between itself and your target.

Quote:
Now, starting the cavaliers round, he'd roll a ride check to get the horse to move for his charge attack, right? What about handle animal to get it to commit the charge (while he's riding it obviously)? Now what's combat mount/trained for combat mean exactly? Is it that package from the handle animal section?

2a. I'd like to point you to the Ride skill description.

Under Control Mount in Battle, that you only need to make a ride check if your horse is not combat-trained (vs DC 20, as a move action, becomes a full-round action if you fail!)
If it is, you don't have to roll, and you can have it move as you want (such as, bringing you into attack distance). (Out of battle, no checks are needed to move around.)
However, if you don't have a free hand to control it, you need to make a ride check vs a DC of 5 (basically autosucceed, doesn't take an action) as it is said under Guide with Knees.
If your horse is combat-trained, you can also direct it to attack (with its natural attack) in addition to any attacks you might make (free action, under Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount).

2b,c&d. I'd say that since you are definitely riding the animal, you have to use the ride skill if you want it to do anything more than moving.
Anyway, if you want to use the Handle Animal skill, you have to consider that it takes a move action (and a check vs DC 10) to have the animal do a trick it has learned, and a full round action (check vs DC 25) to have it do a trick it hasn't learned.
The only tricks a riding animal has learned by default are "come", "heel" and "stay", none of which are applicable if you're sitting on top of it. A mount with the combat-trained purpose (or "trick package") knows the tricks "attack", "defend", "down" and "guard" in addition.
So the conclusion is: about the only thing you could do with animal training is having a mount without the "attack" trick attack an enemy (but it's a full-round action to command it), as a combat-trained mount can be told to do so as a free action (see above).

Quote:
Let's say the horse is now within melee range of a target and that target hits the horse, is there a ride check? Does the horse take it without reaction? On ride-by-attack, it says you can move after a charge (continuing a straight line), but wouldn't that move you through the enemy's space (incurring an AoO)?

3a&b. There is only a ride check to avoid a hit if you have the Mounted Combat feat - a cavalier will have it, but it's only once per round (as an immediate action, vs the attacker's attack roll).

3c. The Ride-by Attack feat says "You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack." (Besides, depending how you line up your charge, you wouldn't necessarily have to move trough his square - you could probably move past him, only moving through his threatened squares.)
The resolving is somewhat similar to making an Overrun (without feats) that your target automatically avoids.

You could, btw, take the feats Improved Overrun, Trample and Charge Through. That way, you can make an overrun as a free action while charging, without provoking an attack of opportunity, and your opponent can't choose to avoid you.

Quote:
Also, a ranger/druid can get his companion to do whatever it's been trained to do (such as attack, work or stop attacking) with a free action and no roll, whereas an action it's not trained to do is at DC10, correct? So if a companion attacks a foe and it (the foe) yields, that actually means you have to give the companion a handle animal check to stop attacking (I mainly ask because neither I nor my friends have ever had animal companions in anything other than 4e, which treats them seperate PCs apparently)?

4a. You still have to make a roll. The Link ability (under the Animal Companion rules) doesn't change that, and it also doesn't directly change the DC. It does, however, give you a +4 circumstance bonus (so handling (free action) is now effectively vs DC 6, and pushing (move action) vs DC 21), and your companion/mount will have most tricks learned (the Cavalier's mount is automatically combat-trained).

4b. Well, actually yes. There's the While that might be a situational DM's decision, there's the "Down" trick (included in the combat training package) for exactly that situation, so you'd have to make a handle animal check. But, considering the iterative way Pathfinder handles combat, there's one potential problem: if we're talking about a mount, you can command it, since your mount acts on your iniative count, simultaenous to you - but if it's an animal companion that acts on its own initiative count, you're technically out of luck (if it's not your turn, you can't give orders). As a GM, I'd probably allow you to shout "DOWN!" anyway.

Quote:
If there's a ranger in the party, is there ANY reason a cavalier should take handle animal? If the ranger can train the horse for different tricks and the cavalier uses the ride check when in combat, then what benefits would there be for taking handle animal? If the ranger can train the horse for different tricks and the cavalier uses the ride check when in combat, then what benefits would there be for taking handle animal for the cavalier?

5. The reason would be "fluff". I'd say that a cavalier should at least know the basics of how to deal with his mount (how to train/command it, how to attend to it), even if he may not need the skill mechanically - putting one or two points in the skill, maybe up to five over the course of his career, just feels "right".

Well, another reason to put more points into it might be "time of the ranger". Teaching an animal a specific trick takes one week, training it for a purpose even longer.

Quote:
Also, on knowledge checks, suppose a guy has all day or even a week/fortnight/month(s) to check out a library for information, should I treat it as a take 20? Since it'll also be a month, if I DO make it into die rolls, should I allow several?

6. Uh... The taking 10 / 20 rules could certainly apply.

Realistically, the maximal result would depend on the quality of the library (you probably won't find anything about Demon Lord Baalzebul's secret bastard that lived four millenia ago in a library about modern art), but you could as well give them a bonus on the check as you see fit (like a +2 for craft check tools) when they're in the right library.

Quote:
Additionally, when would a companion/mount make their attacks or actions, on rounds for themselves or is it their master's round?

7. For a mount, it's specified: it "acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move." A companion that is not used as a mount technically acts on its own initiative count, but most groups rule that it acts right before or after its master, for simplicity's sake.

Quote:
Sorry for the giant wall of text, but any help would be much appreciated.

You're welcome! :)

Edit/Addendum:

cmastah wrote:
Actually, could someone also please explain how range increments work?
Sure. The explanation is somewhat hidden. You can find it under Weapon Qualities in the Weapons part of the Equipment rules and describe it as follows:
d20pfsrd.com wrote:
Range: Any attack at more than this distance is penalized for range. Beyond this range, the attack takes a cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment (or fraction thereof) of distance to the target. For example, a dagger (with a range of 10 feet) thrown at a target that is 25 feet away would incur a –4 penalty. A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon can shoot to 10 range increments.

Does that suffice?

PS: If there's anything else you need help with... I'm always trying to help.

PPS: Did I already tell you how much I like http://www.d20pfsrd.com ? It got everything the official paizo prd got, but I feel that it's faster and easier to navigate and search. If something's in the rules, you'll find it on that page. ;)


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Look at Mornaura's stats.
Those have been rolled (standard method) by the GM of the PBP I'm playing her in (with +2 Int from being a human).

Calculate how many points these stats would be worth.
Ah, you know what, I'll make it quick: 70 points. Seventy. Points.
That's three and a half times the amount of points for high fantasy point buy.

Now, in our PBP, it's okay because everyone got similarily extreme stats, but in other circumstances?
Imagine one character like this and another whose rolled scores total at about 15 points worth in the same group... God forbid even thinking about PVP.

I really don't understand how anyone can support such a method, that leads to blatant imbalance between different characters in a group, right from the beginning, just because someone happens to roll great and someone happens not to.

For me, the conclusion is clear: this character is the only and last one I'll ever play with the default stat rolling generation method.

That said... YMMV, and if you totally dig it, go for it. But spare me.

---

Btw. If you want to have a random element to your character generation, there are different methods that are random yet completely fair (in terms of: everybody gets ability scores worth the same amount of build points). Need examples?

Method A:
1. Create multiple arrays costing the same amount of build points.
2. Roll a dX (where X is the number of arrays you created), take the matching array.
3. Optional: randomly determine which attribute gets which score (d6 for the first score, d5 for the second etc).

Method B:
1. Choose a point buy value, then roll 24 + that many d6 (So 20 point buy -> 44d6).
2. You start with -4 points in every attribute, then add 1 point to Str for every 1 you roll, add 1 point to Con for every 2 you roll, 1 point to Dex for every 3 you roll ... ...
3. If you end up with more than 17 points in one attribute, reroll any points in excess until you don't exceed 17 anymore.
4. If you end up with an amount of points that doesn't have a corresponding ability score (-3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16), either shuffle those around freely (only allowing to result in a +-1 ability score), or reroll them until everything's fine.
5. Optional: Either allow shuffling the scores around or don't.


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InsaneFox wrote:
I've got a witch who's probably taking the heavens domain.

Since "heavens" is an oracle mystery, I got to ask:

What exactly is she? A Wiracle? Half witch, half oracle, and almost a miracle?

(Also: 1. Hellknight, 2. see above, 4. rogue-ish. Where's the third? ;) )


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Okay.

Btw, I just found this nice little tool for character creation.

It allows you to include/exclude all the rulebooks, set the amount of BP and resource availability, even configure the BP-per-point-ratios of everything, as well as multiple optional & house rules... A great tool!


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It's just a mundane item that happens to act as an anchor for a permanent spell.


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In our 3.5 homebrew setting, we had a legendary chateau (complete with garden and basements) that appeared on the material plane once every decade.
For two weeks or so, it stayed inert, protected from intrusion by magical veils better than those of Golarion's Skywatch observatory, then it allowed entry for another week or so before vanishing again.

Everyone who dared to could enter the compound through the main gates, but to leave it again you needed one magical key per person. These could be found anywhere in the compound, some just hidden in a kitchen drawer, most of course guarded by typical dungeon means (hordes of monsters, traps, puzzles), along with heaps of treasure.
If you managed to reach the front door with a key held in your hand during the active week, you were a hero, could keep all the treasure you found and even got awarded a piece of land by the local king.
But if you failed, or died inside, you disappeared together with the rest of the chateau, and you surely didn't come back a decade later...

It was a prestigeous event, with a whole fair of aspiring adventurs, curious onlookers and talismongers all around the compound, including small tournaments for those who wanted to test their mettle in the inert phase, before deciding wether to go for real, and Bards writing poems and ballads about those who survived.

So of course, with multiple groups of adventurers strolling around inside, when the deadline came closer, you could have some serious battle royale going on for the keys...


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Throwing a baseball at (or more exactly a foot or so to the side of) somebody requires a ranged (maybe touch) attack roll, right? So... How many times do baseball pitchers hurt themselves* while throwing? Once in 40** throws?

Punching a sandbag requires an attack roll, right? So... How many times do martial artists of all sorts hurt themselves while hitting one? Once in 40 swings?

Punching the opponent in a boxing ring requires an attack roll, right? So... How many times do martial artists of all sorts hurt themselves in the ring? Once in 40 swings?

Hitting the target on a shooting range with your 12-gauge shotgun requires a ranged attack roll, right? So... How many times do people hurt themselves while shooting? Once in 40 shots?

Hitting a suspect with a taser gun requires a ranged (touch) attack roll, right? So... How many times to cops hurt themselves with those? Once in 40 shots?

*= or destroy their equipment
**= 1/20 x 1/2 (assuming 50% default hit chance and miss = confirm) = 1/40


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^ This.
Just stick tower shields all around you, build a real turret on top of your beetle, so that you get improved cover from all sides. Use a heavy crossbow or a siege weapon to turn it into a real tank.

Bonus points if you give your beetle armor proficiency and coat it with spiked plate armor.


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Prediction: this thread will be going downhill fast, when people start seeing themselves in completely unrelated rants of others.

That said, I know a player who always finds a way to upset other PCs ingame, by being disrespectful, insulting, directly acting against their ethics (like when the paladin in a good party correctly states that something will be considered evil or when the group says that something is an insult to their gods), but when someone opts to react on that ingame, like attacking him when they directly witness his evildoing, or even just telling him to stop it, he starts crying foul, that PVP was bad and unfair, throws a fit sooner or later, and mostly leaves the group for the next weeks at that point.


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I'd say the character who takes the first action gets a surprise round, then everybody rolls initiative and the actual combat begins.

On the other hand, you could also say that any guards worth their money will always ready an attack (or a "move to shield boss") for someone taking an offensive action (they can even take a 5ft step when needed).

So maybe it's actually better if you have everybody roll initiative, count guards and the offender(s) as aware, and have any guards with a higher initiative take the ready action.
That way, you have a surprise round in which the offender goes first, triggering the actions of some guards, then anyone else who "saw it coming" gets to act. It's regular initiative round after that, with all the guards acting right after whomever had triggered them.

You could also roll initiative at the start of the conversation, have guards ready all the time while everyone else takes "turns" discussing stuff until someone decides to attack.


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Guys, you're starting to run circles here...


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Dosgamer wrote:
You know what would be awesome? Some type of (programmable) holographic projection that you could dial to whatever effect you wanted (line, cone, sphere) and range and it would project it into 3 dimensions for you. Want to see a big red fireball? Dial it in, center it, and voila! No messing with templates. Somebody get to work on that, mmkay? *grin*

It's actually not THAT hard to do, if you have enough spare money.

All you need is one of those fancy 3D TV screens that you use as your battlemap, connected to a PC with a 3D maptool software. Of course, it might look a bit silly if the whole group has to wear 3D goggles for each combat, but... I'd certainly try it.

That said, I'd also like one of those multitouchscreen table displays... There's certainly a device somewhere that is capable of both. Or you need kinect or sth. to control the 3D screen.

/derail off

On topic: I would've ruled it the same way as RD.

For line spells, instead of a 3D template, you could as well use a laserpointer. :)


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If you'd know where and how large you want the chambers and corridors inside your pyramid, you could probably exlucde that volume from your calculation.

You could use balloons (like they use for igloos nowadays) or inner perimeter walls (you got Wall of Stone at will, after all) and build around that.

Don't know if that would save any time, actually, against carving your rooms out of the massive pyramid afterwards (Transmute Rock to Mud and bulldozing with Move Earth).

Another thought... is there a way to make your pyramid out of a harder substance than what Mud to Rock gives you?

Btw, if you need some nice obelisks in front of your pyramid, you can cast Create Pit right in a puddle mud.
Let the mud flow into the pit and fill it up.
Then cast Mud to Rock to form one stone block.
As Create Pit says it drives creatures inside upwards when the spell ends, I'd assume it also drives objects inside upwards, so one nice 10x10x(10/2 CL) colum rises from the dirt.
Shape the tip before or after it rises, as you please.

Actually... That probably allows for some giant quasi-hydraulic piston apperature... But I've derailed this far enough already.


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Well, if you want to end that campaign anyway, just let it end with a big bang.

A last stand, king of the hill style, like in the flashback scene of Alien vs Predator, where the Preds try to defend the top of the pyramid against the mass of aliens. (If you don't know what I'm talking about: two short views of that are in this trailer, from 1:30 to the end.)

You could have the PCs trying to defend the caster who performs the ritual for a set amount of time (/rounds), before he manages to banish the ancient evil.
If you want to let your PCs live, you could have the explosion in the end be a positive energy effect so that it only blasts away the undead minion army and the BBEG.


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31. You seemingly randomly visit a magic curios shop, where you play around with several items of unknown purpose and power, and damage a snow globe by accident. After a night that brings the winter's first snow, you awake in a strange place - which of course turns out to be inside the snow globe.

32. A remote colony hasn't sent message for a while. When you get there to investigate, instead of the colony, you only find a vast, deep, smoking crater of unknown origin.

33. Some northwestern regions of the land seem to get struck by terror, plague and madness. Some people claim they had seen a dark wanderer in these very regions, always shortly before it started, always travelling eastwards (or, in case of Golarion, southwards).

Didn't catch the trope?:
If you don't know yet what I'm talking about: he wanders from the northwestern realms, through the desert and into the jungles. In a temple in the ruins of a long lost city, he'll jump through a portal to some plane of hell. You follow him all the way, and later exit that plane to a northern realm at the foot of a mountain, upon which the entrance to the worldstone keep is hidden...


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Umm...

A little link collection.
I'm sure you'll find something, somewhere...

Also, take a look at this thread in the WotC board.
1030 pages of character picture customization. Yeah, that's right. Customization.

When you've found an image that just doesn't quite match the character you want to play, post it there, name the changes you'd like to be made to it, and kindly ask if one of the photoshop geniuses who contribute to that thread could take care of it.
Chances are, someone will - and most of them don't need 9th level spell slots to cast miracle...

You could also post some keywords of your character's description and ask if someone has a matching picture, but you'll be generally seen in a better light if you show some effort and do the basic search yourself. ;)


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Short: yes.

Long: Cleave and Cleaving Finish are two separate feats, two separate effects that grant each you one additional attack under special circumstances. They do not interfere with each other.

So yes, if you drop the first enemy with your single standard action attack, you get one additional attack against a foe in reach for each of both feats (since you fulfilled both requirements).

If there's only one foe within reach after you dropped the first one, you can attack that foe twice.
(If there are more, you can distribute the two attacks as it pleases you.)

There's nothing in the description of the two feats that forbids it.


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Well... That problem is a really good catch.

The main question is: how are temporary HP supposed to interact with nonlethal damage?

The way I see it, it goes either like this:
"If anyone gets temp HP by any source, he isn't knocked unconscious when nonlethal damage excesses his normal HP any more, but when nonlethal damage excesses his normal HP + temp HP."
Or like that:
"Temp HP do not distinguish non-lethal from lethal damage / Non-lethal damage is counted as lethal damage with regards to temp HP. Therefore, if a character with temp HP sustains nonlethal damage, the temp HP are reduced by that amount. If the temp HP are reduced to zero, any damage in excess is handled according to the normal non-lethal damage rules."

---

If my first version is correct, we run into the problems you (Umbral and Seraphim) mentioned.

How are we supposed to apply the following paragraph of the rules for temporary hit points to nonlethal damage?

Quote:
If the effect that grants the temporary hit points ends or is dispelled, any remaining temporary hit points go away. The damage they sustained is not transferred to the character's current hit points.

If nonlethal damage is an entirely own pool and remains the same, unaffected by changes of temp HP, when the effect granting the temp HP ends and the HP drop back to normal, the nonlethal damage can suddenly be much higher than the HP. You're knocked unconscious, but what's supposed to happen with the excess?

Is the excess nonlethal damage instantly transferred into lethal damage, which could kill a character, as Umbral showed?
Is that transfer delayed until you sustain 1 additional point of nonlethal damage, and then possibly still kills you?

Additionally, it leads to a different wierd instance with the synthesist: the eidolon itself can never be knocked unconscious - well, depending on how you read its description and incapability of own actions, it might be all the time, but that's not the point.

You have to deal nonlethal damage equal to (synth's HP in fused form)+(temp HP given by eidolon)+1 to make the synth unconscious, then the eidolon is sent back automatically. You then have a synth with (temp HP given by eidolon)+1 excess nonlethal damage in his stack, while the eidolon itself has zero points of nonlethal damage.

Maybe it's more behaving like two different, linked pools?
If you sustain (synth's HP in fused form)+(temp HP given by eidolon)+1 nonlethal damage, you're knocked unconscious and the eidolon is sent back automatically. You then remain with the minimum nonlethal damage needed (equal to your HP +1) and the rest gets transferred to your eidolon?
(The logic behind that could be: your nonlethal pool is filled, the temp nonlethal pool (and thus the one of the eidolon) is filled, any excess is lethal damage which has to be applied to your eidolon first.)

Following that, it would leave you with an unconscious synthesist and a staggered/unconscious/injured eidolon, depending on how much excess damage there was.
Does it make a difference for a synthesist, wether the eidolon is unconscious or not?

If you have the Resilient Eidolon feat, it stays with you for some rounds... Whatever that gives you. Supposedly you still get to benefit from it's AC increases and so on, but you're unconscious and prone to being CdG'd anyway.

---

But my second version brings along its own problems. If it is correct, we're looking at just another major discrepancy between a normal summoner and a synthesist. Which?

Let's see...
The summoner rules say:

Quote:
Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures, except that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score.

The eidolon (and any other summoned creature) is not sent back by merely being unconscious, right?

So if you want to send back a normal eidolon by means of nonlethal damage, you have to deal twice its total HP plus Con score (or deal nonlethal damage equal to its total HP+1 to make it unconscious, then make a Coup de Grace as long as its helpless).

Now, since a synth's eidolon's HP are all temp, and temp HP are reduced by nonlethal in the same way they'd be by lethal damage, if you want to send back a synth's eidolon by means of nonlethal damage, you'd only have to deal damage equal to the eidolon's HP. Temp HP are gone, eidolon is gone.

---

So maybe it's entirely different than what I could imagine... Hopefully someone will come by and enlighten us.

Regarding your plead, Seraphimpunk, even if it doesn't have to do very much with the temp/nonlethal problem, I just wanted to say that I'd like to chime in on that.

Please, rules-authors, lock the synth's own HP at his normal, unfused hit points.
It would really simplify things a lot and make the synth's Con somewhat less of a dump stat.

And please, let the Eidolon's HP be normal HP that get reduced first (as I proposed).

Maybe add a paragraph along the lines of "If the eidolon is dismissed, damage to his HP (nonlethal and/or lethal) is not transferred to the synthesist's HP." to make it even easier to understand - but I think, as it already says that damage to the eidolon remains even after resummoning (as long as it's not slain), it wouldn't possibly be needed.

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Now that we're at it anyway, let me repeat another question someone else brought up:

What's happening if an elven (or half-elven) synthesist in fused form gets struck by a sleep spell?

Just to show one imminent problem that could result from ruling that the sleep spell would work, and to spread insanity, let me ask what happens next.
The spell works, so the synthesist is put to sleep and the eidolon vanishes. Since the synthesist no longer counts as an outsider, does he wake up again because his natural immunity kicks in?
In which case he is better off without the Resilient Eidolon feat then with (debatably, but it's awake w/o eidolon vs sleeping and helpless w/ eidolon)?

More seriously, the rules do say that "the synthesist counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse".
Is "type" the same as "race"?
There's only the humanoid type, but there are subtypes named matching the races (but subtypes don't grant racial traits).
So, are your racial traits still active?
Does a gnome in fused form lose its dodge bonus vs giants?
What counts as "an effect related to type" and what doesn't?


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Why don't you just leave them as normal HP?
Just replace "The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. When these hit points reach 0, the eidolon is sent back to its home plane." in the Fused Eidolon abilty by the following:
"Since the eidolon is surrounding the synthesist, somewhat like a suit of armor, any damage the synthesist gets while fused is subtracted from the eidolon's HP instead of his own. When the eidolon's HP reach 0, it is sent back to its home plane, as normal. Any damage in excess is reduced from the synthesist's own HP."

Plain. Simple. Elegant.

To make the ruling of healing even more clear, add: "Any HP gained through any form of healing are added to the synthesist's own HP first. When these reach maximum, any healing in excess is added to the eidolon's HP."

How'bout that?
(Hope my wording is as clear as it sounds to me, not being a native speaker and all. ;))


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I'm playing a desna-believing half-orc defender/bodyguard/protector/guardian/mmo-style-tank/whatever-you-call-it. His quest is to protect a (also desna-believing) female aasimar oracle of the heavens. At any cost. She being half-blind and stubborn as a varisian mountain mule probably isn't going to make his task easier. And I know, a guard with a purple butterfly on his chest might not look very intimidating, but he's hopefully going to make up for it with sheer effectivity. ;)

That's where all you folks come into play – I need some input to make him really good at what he's supposed to do. What is the best approach to... to... well, to saving the oracle's cute ass?

Here's what I got so far, but, by any means, feel free to change everything to improve him, apart from the race – yeah, I know, now that there's the helpful halfing trait, that seems to be another viable approach, but I'd like not having to explain why my character transformed into something half his size at last full moon.

Race: Half Orc
(Darkvision, Intimidating, Orc Blood, Weapon Familiarity – traded Orc Ferocity for Sacred Tattoo)

Class: Fighter (phalanx soldier) 4 (so far)

Attributes (20 pt buy incl. racial and lvl 4 bonus):
Str 18 +4
Dex 16 +3
Con 12 +1
Int 13 +1
Wis 10 +0
Cha 8 -1

Trait (only one in our group, GM's call): Reactionary (+2 Ini)

Feats:
1. Combat Reflexes
F1: Bodyguard
F2: TWF (to reduce the penalty on shield bash, could be replaced later)
3: Improved Initiative
F4: Combat Expertise

Feats that should be included (sorted by relevance):
Imp Shield Bash -> Shield Slam -> Shield Master
Imp Trip -> Greater Trip
Pin Down
Shield Focus -> Greater Shield Focus and Missile Shield
Dodge -> Mobility -> Combat Patrol and Spring Attack -> Whirlwind Attack
Disruptive -> Spellbreaker -> Ray Shield

Feats that could be included, but don't have to be:
Antagonize (though I'd probably need a higher cha to do it, and normally our GM lets us do things like taunting through roleplaying, so it shouldn't be necessary)
Power Attack -> Felling Smash and Pushing Assault

Equipment:
horsechopper (reach, trip) + spiked heavy shield
alt: bill (reach, brace, disarm)
(Got to find somebody who can build a halbard with a longer shaft (read: reach) or fuse both my polearms into one.)
alt: throwing weapons like javelin, pilum, spear – could be substituted by a composite longbow for enhanced reach if necessary
light or medium armor (With spikes. For added spikyness. Got to make up for the purple buttlerfly somehow. >.<)

I think that it shouldn't be hard to guess where this leads us, but I'll explain my tactic anyway:
1. always stand right next to or better yet in front (soft cover for free) of the oracle
2. provide cover and ac with shield and bodyguard/aid another if necessary
3. control a large area of the battlefield by using polearms with reach (could be further enlarged by Combat Patrol)
4. use AoOs and readied actions to trip, shutdown or bull rush everything that wants to move closer
5. if something moves into adj, make shield bash bull rush to move him out again
6. as a last resort, use In Harm's Way to intercept

Build possibilities (I'll only mention the abilities that are benificial to my cause):

#1 Fighter (phalanx soldier) 20
-> Use polearms and spears one-handed with shield at level 3 – Three words: one handed reach. That's pretty much the main reason to go this route. (I know, there is a discussion still going on about wether you could as well use a small sized two handed reach polearm in one hand, but... I want to stay away from cheese-smelling territory as long as possible.)
-> Shield Ally – it's basically the reason to go further than just level 3. Use a heavy shield so that you can still shield bash, and grant up to +8 cover bonus to AC for an adj ally. Needs a move action, but still: neat. So together with Aid Another we're looking at +10 AC.
-> can grant allies evasion (and improved evasion)
But the other abilites are kind of... meh. I'd desperately want to mix this archetype with some of the standard fighter and/or polearm figher abilities, but my GM fears that it would lead right back into cheesyland so it's unfortunately no option.

#2a Fighter (phalanx soldier) 3+x / Cavalier (Order of the Dragon, Honorguard Archetype) 17-x
Simply put: if cavalier, then Honorguard. It's great – it replaces most of the abilties the cavalier has that would otherwise have no use in my build.
-> Perception as class skill might help to spot ambushes
-> Teamwork feat could be Escape Route or Shield Wall (my oracle could use a buckler to benefit)
-> -1 own AC, +1 adj ally's AC @ challenge
-> Intercept gives Bodyguard at Cav level 3, well... saves a feat, and +1 AC @ aid another. Should stack with improved aid another bonus of the Order ability (so we can be up to +6 at Cav lvl 14).
-> Strategy can give +2 dodge AC to allies within 30ft for 1 round at Cav level 8
-> Warding Charge and Defensive Challenge are also better for what I want to do, but I don't know if they're worth taking so many levels of Cavalier.

#2b Fighter (phalanx soldier) 3+x / Cavalier (Order of the Dragons, Honorguard and Emissary Archetypes) 17-x
Same as above, apart from:
-> lose Teamwork feat, gain full movement in medium armor
-> Mobility at Cav level 5, another feat saved
Other changes are uninteresting since I won't spend much time with mounted combat anyway, but this has no real disadvantage, so I'd probably take it.

#3 Fighter (phalanx soldier) 3 / Cavalier (Order of the Dragons, Honorguard (and probably Emissary) Archetypes) 3 or 5 / Bard 1 / Battle Herald 10 / Whatever +3 or +1
So this could bring us to an aid another bonus of 8 (can be reached at level 15, depending on the order I take the classes).
-> lose 1 point of BAB
-> can grant allies DR 4/-
-> improved versatility through different available commands
-> improved leadership score, which will never be used in my case (since our group is almost too huge even without everyone dragging a crapload of NPCs with him).
Would it be a far shot into cheesyland to ask if the Demanding Challenge of the Battle Herald could be replaced by Defensive Challenge of the Honorguard Archetype we took (which would normally replace the Demanding Challenge of the Cavalier)? *mumbling* Yeah, thought so... ;)

#4 Fighter (phalanx soldier) 3 / Cavalier (Order of the Dragons, Honorguard (and probably Emissary) Archetypes) 14 / Bard 1 / Battle Herald 1 / Whatever +1
Would I be better off with shuffling Build #3 around for this?
-> aid another +6 (+7 with Inspiring Command) and less usable rounds of IC
Are the Cav abilities better than the ones BH would give me?

Please tell me what you think of all this.
And as I said, feel free to change everything if you have a completely different build that would be better at protecting an oracle.