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RPG Superstar 6 Season Star Voter. 80 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Responding to three year old questions I see...


I was assuming the player in question was trying to teach the others when the first post talked about the willingness to learn.

But you're right, even with my assumption, it would take an extreme amount of altruism to abuse leadership for the benefit of the party. Most likely an abuse case.


We aren't even sure the player has ill intentions, just that hey are possible. Best to inform them before hand and if they decide to abuse the feat, hit em hard. But the gm should give them an opportunity to be a good player before punishing someone for having the possibility of being a bad one.


As tempting as that is, don't blind side a player like that.


I would be careful here and ask a flew questions to get a stronger idea of what they are planning.

Where are you recruiting all these people?

How much daily profit do you expect to make?

Is this number based on all crafters doing 8 hours of work a day?

Is profit assuming each crafter at every hour they work is producing 1000 gold of goods?

Is the profit assuming each seller is making 550 for every 1000 gold an item is worth?

Where is the profit going?

How much will be spent in philanthropy?

I understand the mechanics of the feats basically allow the worst here but the logistics of an operation like that is too much scope for only one person to manage. Assuming they are milking everyone for every last gp they are worth (worst case), I would go with your gut feeling after asking these questions. If the player divides the gold to the party too that might not be a bad thing however. Maybe the player is frustrated and is going to boost their wealth to compensate for their poor choices. Just make sure the player isn't turning this into a solo campaign because with that many followers and gold on one person it will be one.


That cosplay is amazing.


Considering most people I know default to one transformation and air walk, I think this is a dead option for most people now.


chuffster wrote:
Markov Spiked Chain wrote:
Quote:
Probably true. I think some feel constrained to be overly strict when running a PFS game, and it's not really worth making a fuss.
When running a PFS game, you'd hope they'd at least be strict enough to enforce Evolved Summon Monster not being legal in PFS.

Is there any reason to think it won't be getting in once the official publication date is upon us?

Well considering what happened after Unchained, I think its safe to say it will either be banned or force you to use 1 point evolutions from the unchained list (no pounce cause its a 2-3 point now).


I believe the blog post said there would be an updated playtest and I think Jason or mark have said there would be more information released during a second portion of play testing.

Edit: oh I'm with you on arm chair feedback, I remember the hunter playtest and people could not get past the fact that it was enhancement bonuses for you and your animal cheaper and at a faster progression than what a normal character could acquire.


I did a playtest last week converting an scout/sniper unchained rogue with variant multiclass shadow bloodline sorcerer (home game house rules maybe make the playtest data not as great) and playing a session. For one the combat effectiveness was about even as a stalker vigilante (more feats, hide in plain site not costing me half my normal feats and trading my 10ft movement for guaranteed sneak attack shot for full range increment sniping) but this campaign was a dungeon crawl. I didn't report it because my only issue with the class as a whole is something they all share, the social identity is a glaring weakness that doesn't really accomplish much on its own. Hell I feel like the class is just pretending to be 4 other classes with a class feature that ends up being a glaring weakness rather than a boon.

I'm going to wait till the second iteration of this play test to post actual feedback because I think it coincides with the armchair feedback and it would probably get ignored but let me say, I think social identity would be received so much better if you were the vigilante and the social identity was more like using disguise to hide who you truly are rather than almost be someone else entirely. As it stands right now, the Vigalante seems like its being a fighter, unchained rogue, single class eldritch knight or, inquisitor but missing a few key class features. The social identity seems to be what is intended to set the class apart from the classes I mentioned but its not carrying its weight which I'm assuming wont be addressed until next month.

So yea, I think that's just a long winded explanation why I feel like playtest feedback for the class as it is now is going to be very similar to armchair feedback and I'm usually against the extensive theory crafting that never sees actual play that happens so often in this board.


niconorsk wrote:
Walter Sheppard wrote:
I've been burned by GMs that grouped difficult creatures into one initiative. The best example is the 13 vampire sorcerers that won initiative and hit us with 13 simultaneous fireballs

Quite literally burned.

I think the point that you can all delay to achieve the same effect is true but has one significant difference which is that the group is far less likely to go before the players. In the above example situation, I imagine that would have made a huge difference. If you see 13 vampire sorcerers and don't think to spread out, you probably only have yourself to blame.
So, if you do group for convenience, I would suggest rolling initiative for every member in the group and keeping the lowest.

This is why players have a problem with grouping monsters on the same initiative. Yes you can just delay everyone but if you don't roll for every monster and take the lowest, the monsters get an advantage over the players. Also my understanding in the goblin scenario is that you would group all four under one initiative, have them all take moves for flanking then take their standards. Wouldn't that provide 1 to 2 goblins with bonuses they wouldn't otherwise have using a delay action.

I guess what I'm saying is that a majority of the time it's probably a non issue but the slight differences can push encounters closer in the encounters favor. Why not just delay every individual you want to group so that they are effectively grouped then run all their actions individually in a row?


I wonder why the class has two separate people it assumes each day instead of the class being the vigilante and using abilities to pretend to be the social identity. Sort of how the master spy prestige class works but better. The whole two identity thing is rubbing me the wrong way with how it's worded making me think every vigilante is possessed.


What's your attatchment to exalted I didn't see much it was doing for you? I don't know if you can fit guided but that would save you some point buy if you just planned to have it online as soon as possible. That would mean just playing a generic supporting cleric until it was ready and you wouldn't be able to use touch spells that well outside of glaive discharging them.


Eh thought I had something but I forgot how few feats you have to play around with. What I was going to suggest falls into the old cleric problem of having a lot of things you can do but not a lot you can do together. Urgothan build is fine then but you have a 2-3 turn set up for single kills which ruins the concept atleast for me. I'm assuming the main deal of the build is to use reach cleric tactics and pre cast touch spells into your scythe and deliver them for free using an attack of opportunity?


To be honest the urgothan build hurts itself going with the scythe instead of just touch attacks and you don't get much out of the weapon to make it that interesting. Shelyn build is nice and more appealing with the glaive and a few other tricks it gets out of the deity. I'd look into adding some channeling if it fits te concept well enough and would allow you to justify a higher charisma score.


From my understanding there are a few problems with what this player is trying to create. That is if there is a strict following of the rules.

1. According to archives of nethys, The Green Faith has no clerics at all and its only intended for Druids to gain domains from it.

2. Green Faith provides only elemental domains and the animal domain.

3. Green Faith has weapons listed as Druidic weapons so even if a cleric of the Green Faith is allowed, they would only get weapons that druids are proficient in. A Dwarven Waraxe is definetly not a druidic weapon but there isn't anything inherently wrong with allowing it.


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I'm not sure where you guys are coming from but from my perspective on the mass effect 3 complaints is that it didn't come from the lack of a happy ending but the fact that your choices ultimately meant nothing. Which is fine, if the game series wasn't sold and praised for your choices actually mattering. Bioware games were known to have your choices change how the story plays and in the end, your choices dictated what sort of endings were available to you. Mass effect 3 even with the added ending made it so that it didn't actually matter what kind of person you played shepherd as, you pick your ending in the end. At least with the good ending added you could pretend like your decisions prior mattered but it was a huge let down.

And to keep this on topic, I am absolutely disgusted with natural attack builds that stretch to get as many natural attacks as possible. Two claws are fine, add a bite and it's still fine but there are others who aren't satisfied unless they get two wings a ogre and a tail slap and I'm glad I've never had to play with a player who accepts that.


Then what's the point of that wording if claws are always light slashing weapons? Even so, they are both enhancement bonuses so +5 and +5 won't stack but I'm pretty sure a +1 speed claw blade wasn't intended to combine with a +5 amulet to make +5 speed claw attacks.


Well considering that claw blades make your attacks light manufactured weapons and amulet of mighty fist doesn't enhance manufactured weapons no.


Logan Bonner wrote:
Captain Netz wrote:
Upon misinterpreting how tricks work I have to ask. Why do you have to preset tricks and then activate then? Why not just trigger them and then they manifest? There are way too many restrictions to a class feature that should be reactive rather than a part of preparation.
The class feature is meant to primarily be part of preparation! I'm going to look at easing the restrictiveness of the triggering conditions and making the effects more powerful. They aren't triggered when they manifest because then the player has to be on the looking for a large number of triggering conditions at a time. These should feel more like contingencies.

Maybe we are interpreting mesmers always being prepared differently here. When I think of Mesmer I think of almost a bard that's has a contingency for even the worst scenario. To me that means the Mesmer is always prepared to use a trick because they don't have to prepare the tricks. Immediate action activation of tricks that you are already limited in selection would be no more complicated than rogue tricks, swift actions spells, or the oversized bardic performance list. Honestly keeping the tricks as is but with 0 prep work would make for a much stronger class and wouldn't even be pushing the boundaries of difficulty that the other 5 classes or even some core classes have set.

Is like to see what you have in mind but the easiest and most appealing option would be to remove the preparation entirely. I just don't see how keeping track of a class ability that you have to choose yourself could be anymore difficult to track than a spell casters spells or a rogues talents or a skirmishes tricks.

Also there needs to be a bigger incentive to use a weapon with 3/4ths BAB other than getting the first feat in the whip chain (proficiency) for free.


Upon misinterpreting how tricks work I have to ask. Why do you have to preset tricks and then activate then? Why not just trigger them and then they manifest? There are way too many restrictions to a class feature that should be reactive rather than a part of preparation.


You guys complaining about tricks do know both the action becomes free and the range becomes 100+ feet if the trigger conditions are met right? A majority of the triggers are also last minute adjustments meaning you can get away with using then at the last minute.

My only concern right now trying to build a mesnerist is that every build idea I have benefits from one fighter level, without losing much at all. That's technically not a problem but with one fighter level I drop spells and trick progression by 1 level for increase armor availability, increased weapon availability, bonus feat and wualifying for bab+1 feats immediately (which is really nice if you want to use a whip as more than a maneuver tool without waiting till level 9-10 to do any damage).

Maybe I'm missing the point but as a sixth level caster I have a limited effectiveness as a enchanter compared to a sorcerer and weaker offensive power than a bard. That fighter level pushes my physical to a threshold I believe a sixth level caster should be at and te class has enough features to make compulsions still a viable tool.


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Magical Tail.


Argus The Slayer wrote:

That build would work, but you are going to be stretched thin and MAD with STR/DEX/CON requirements, in addition to WIS for your Ranger - which will lead to you have a a rather Meh attack bonus. I still think straight Fighter works best for Thunder and Fang.

Human Thunder and Fang Fighter
S18 D17 C14 I10 W12 C7 (with human variant +2 to two stats (STR/DEX) - all bumps to STR
1) Weapon Focus: Earth Breaker; Weapon Focus: Klar
2) TWF
3) Thunder and Fang; Medium Armor Training
4) WS: Earth Breaker
5) WS: Klar; WT: Hammers: +1/+1
6) Improved TWF
7) Power Attack; Heavy Armor Training
8) Greater Weapon Focus: Earth Breaker
9) Double Slice; WT: Hammers: +2/+2, Close: +1/+1
10) Greater Weapon Focus: Klar
11) Improved Critical: Earth Breaker
12) Greater Weapon Specialization: Earth Breaker
13) Greater Weapon Specialization: Klar; WT: +3/+2

Attack @ 9th w/ Gloves of Dueling, a +2 DEX/STR Belt and +1 Earth Breaker and Klar:

+9BAB+6STR+1Magic+1WF+4WT-2TWF= +19/+18/+14/+13

Damage:
Earthbreaker: +6STR+4WT+2Magic+2WS= 2d6+13 (or +19 w/PA)
Klar: +6STR+3WT+1Magic+2WS= 1d4+11 (or +17 w/ PA)

I would believe you if you would have claimed feats were too few and far between.

But I fail to see how a Ranger would be mad, considering he doesn't need to be a dual talented human or a high DEX score at all to pull it off.


I think it really depends on the alignment of the character. Desna, Shelyn, Iomede and, Sarenrae are some of the most popular good deities for mechanical and thematic reasons. Those four seem to have multiple facets to their character which some if the male core deities (Cayden and Abadar) seem really one sided by comparison. I will give you that Zon Kuthon is interesting but Cayden nethys and Abadar just seem uninteresting or atleast not as strongly supported as the four females I mentioned. Hell, I think zon has a lot of content only because of his relation to shelyn.


Bloodline is objectively worse but I would allow it.


On that note, I didn't see anything giving the effective swashbuckler level for the deeds picked through the arcana.


Thanks for the feral hunter archetype!


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You eventually are going to hit dead points where your cold spells are useless but the prestige class has features to bypass cold resistance and immunities. When that happens you just play as a normal witch with fewer hexs. You'll be fine if you like the base witch.


Fire resistance didn't have you resist fire damage, it made you add your resistance number to your save vs a fire effect. (Fire resist 5 = +5 to save vs fire spell).


Double dagger pharsma ninjas. Don't even need the prestige class but take ten levels of evangelist for wings and you have a flying invisible angel of death and sometimes life.

Nice to see that the new classes support off builds like using daggers instead of kukris. Wondering how zen archer of erastil interacts with that one obeidiance that gives wisdom to attack and damage.


John Kretzer wrote:
Mattastrophic wrote:

The Calistria boons look pretty sweet. I have a Calistrian who's now 19th-level, and Cha-to-AC is very appropriate. So, the burning question... what does one have to do for one hour per day, exactly?

Also, I second the request for Shelyn's information.

-Matt

Sorry I have had a damn cold... I'll start answering your guys question again.

If you guys just want to condense it to post as a reminder it will make it easier on me.

As for the above question...

Calistria obedience is either to engage in sexual activity with another individual in exchange for money, information or another valuable resource. Both parties must be willing. It should be a situation you are comfortable with. Also you must pray to Calistria out loud before and after the act...and should encourage your partner to do the same. Or wrap yourself in yellow silk and lay down mediating on Calistria's teaching and fantasizing about vengeance on somebody that wronged you.

All obedience have two ways to resolve them.

Shelyn and Irori's boons plus obediences are the two request I saw down the thread. Trying to get a sneak peak before Wednesday on Shelyn at least.

Someone also asked for realms of Iomede, Desna and what they have to offer.


My understanding:

1. Haste should give you a bonus attack beyond the normal limitation.

2. Yes, with the penalties as well

3. Claw blade would be a light weapon attack and claw would be a secondary natural attack made at the normal -5 penalty.

4. No idea, we have played assuming feats the specifically effect claws also effect claw blades because they fit over your existing claws.

5. Magic fang would only buff the claws uncovered.

6. They are weapons so yes.


I find it funny that the only problems that people have with paladins seems to be role playing wise where with my group the sheer mechanical power of the class seems out of line enough that on a bad day, the class is a normal combatant. On a good day, it turns into a "why bother, playing another divine class"? Seems to me the code only exist to prevent players from rolling up troops of paladins in any campaign with a central plot against evil. As a result we have running house rules expanding the paladins choices but limiting its powers a bit. However, with the inner sea gods and the advanced class guide, I would be surprised if there are half as many paladins across all pathfinder tables are still active.


Anyone mind spoiling some shelyn stuff for me. Waiting for the PDF launch :(


Most of the feedback was shrugged because it boiled down to straight up moaning about how animal aspects was an enhancement bonus. What a lot of people didn't realize or refused to recognize was that there was an actual reason behind making it an enhancement bonus for both animal and hunter.

The major problem I always had with having a tandem fighting duo in pathfinder is that it cost a lot of money to equip two fighters on a single characters WBL. The enhancement bonuses were intended to cut money off of buying belts and such and using that same money to better equip you and your animal. Most of the feedback after that point was a mob of people jumping and pointing their fingers saying "make it stack with everything or its bad" instead of trying to work with the skill.


Rangers can ignore the bab requirement and take the feat at level 6 as a bonus feat in the archery combat style list.


The builds really powerful but I can't find a character portrait that fits.


I always assumed there was a truce but that doesn't stop some of the more chaotic zon followers from acting out against shelynites.


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He said he thinks that Paizo is incorrect on one thing and you understand that as he thinks the design team is less capable than himself personally? Am I understanding you correctly?

He straight up said he thinks that crossblooded dipping like this wasn't looked at when he ruling was made and that the current ruling is not appropriate with this situation in mind.


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I think the DrDeth's point is that its silly that a potent level one power that certain sorcerers get to make them unique to other arcane casting classes can just be transferred to any class that cast spells, especially a wizard who arguably doesn't need the help doing anything. The design team probably only allows it because blasting at high levels is as much of a non issue as sneak attack at high levels.

At least that's how I see it.


Humphrey Boggard wrote:

1) Gnome Mad Dog Barbarian - kangaroo mounted lancer.

2) Kitsune witch with fox familiar. Bonus points if you can figure out how to get a dire fox animal companion.

Medium cat folk riding a large cat companion while holding a small cat familiar.


Closest I've seen is the winter witch archetype followed by the winter witch prestige class. There are also cool themed spells for the elemental races like the sylph. Doesn't due the elementalist ideal much justice though.


Lune wrote:
Captain Netz wrote:
Lune wrote:
So, yeah... I'm thinking that going with Half-Orc with Racial Heritage: Ifrit and then taking Scorching Weapons is the most consistant way of dealing fire damage. It takes 2 feats, one of which has to be at first level, though.
You can't take racial heritage of a native outsider. Only humanoid race groups (cat folk, kitsune etc)

I understand that. However, you also have to consider that some of this rests in the hands of a DM. Ask yourself, if you were the DM, would you allow it? I think any sane DM would. The fluff text states, "The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins." Is it not possible for Ifrit blood to flow in your veins? I believe that it is the intention for this to allow for use with Aasimars, Ifrits, etc. even though it is not worded so. My logic follows that of the fluff as the intention for what the mechanics were meant to accomplish.

With no balance related issue (honestly its fairly under powered), no reason RP wise to see why it wouldn't be possible and for it to rest in the hands of the DM many of whom I think it is safe to say would allow it I think it is safe to proceed forward under that assumption. I mean... unless you know for sure my DM wouldn't allow it? ;)

Because ifrits are already half humanoid half fire plane creatures. No it's not broken it just seems like a half orc going racial heritage ifrit is just as weird as a human going racial heritage orc. The race kind of already exist for that. If you can get your DM to allow it, go ahead. Hell, they might even let you just take racial heritage orc on an ifrit and then you can be a living tribute to the fire god!

Think how sick the RP would be on basically being an embodiment of an Orc god who for the most part, Orcs are not even sure what looks like.


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I find it funny that you count rogue talents as being just as valuable as feats when the general critisism for rogue talents is that the ones that don't outright grant feats are considerably weaker.

You're also ignoring that heavy armor proficiency requires medium armor proficiency which the fighter also has over the rogue. You would make a better argument that a Dex based fighter is similar to the rogue but then armor training wouldn't be so under valued in your analysis.


Lune wrote:
So, yeah... I'm thinking that going with Half-Orc with Racial Heritage: Ifrit and then taking Scorching Weapons is the most consistant way of dealing fire damage. It takes 2 feats, one of which has to be at first level, though.

You can't take racial heritage of a native outsider. Only humanoid race groups (cat folk, kitsune etc)


One of our GMs says no 7s because if its a dump stat, there is no real negative between 8 and 7 to justify the 2 more points to build with. I guess if it gave only a -3 for 7 instead of -4 it wouldn't be a problem for him but I do tend to agree that in most builds, you wont notice the negatives of a 7 compared to an 8.

But having played with 7s, I don't think it gives a power advantage at all unless you are taking more than one 7.

Star Voter Season 6

"Irregardless"


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Liked:

Items were updated every few days since release and a second document came up with major updates leaving most of the classes in a strong spot.

Disliked:

Felt like the design team stretched too thin during the entire thing. Playtest was run right in the holidays and felt like we had a dead week in the middle of the playtest. Also there were some classes that felt ignored for a large portion time because other classes were taking priority.

Surveys were really vague.


DragoDorn wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Ashram wrote:
Rogue and Minor/Major Magic and Minor/Major Eldritch Magic say hi. :3
An elective pair of Sp abilities for an otherwise nonmagical class is very different than adding a default four Sp abilities for an otherwise nonmagical class.

What I don't understand is why are you adding classes to the game in a book called 'The Advanced Class Guide' and all the classes don't have at least some kind of supernatural, spell like ability, or actual casting. Pure melee classes don't seem very 'Advanced'. The Slayer, the Brawler, and even the Swashbuckler, to some degree, feel like they are lacking in what I would consider advanced abilities.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just kinda confused about this point.

By that logic the sorcerer would be an advanced class. I think they are advanced on the way that without knowing how the parent classes work, it will be harder to make one of these classes work.

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