Broadhand's page

Brawler/Investigaator? Brawler/Inquisitor?

Actually, that last one sounds mighty good...

Nezzmith wrote:

My personal experience has been that it is the good characters that end up betraying the evil ones in my campaigns.

Same here. As soon as they see "Evil" on the character sheet they get weird. Metagamers gonna metagame, I guess.

I once used that fact to great success in a campaign once. Never has a man had so much egg on his face than that poor PC did that day.

There is ALWAYS a way around metagaming.

134. Raise them. When they're of age, garb them in green tunics. Then, send them on their way with wooden swords. Give half of them pixies as companions; the other half get will o' whisps.

HEY, LISTEN.

I designed a backwards-dungeon once. The only thing keeping the monsters inert was the presence of an artifact at the dungeon center. Once picked up (using the handy-dandy container that blocks all artifact "signals"), I assumed I would be free to make the monsters all go berserk.

Damn PCs kept the thing out and just waltzed out of the dungeon with it, and all the monsters just sitting there.

*slow clap*

*builds to crescendo*

*stands, continuing the ovation*

Wiggz wrote:

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

You need to define SEX first.

Despite dictionary and science, lots of people have very different definitions they assume are the correct meaning on this one.

That said, Summoner is certainly allowed to create a female-looking eidolon for sexual recreation. I'd call this an evil action, as it really isn't any different from giving birth to a daughter for the purposes of sexual recreation. Depraved behavior.

I will note that the First World Summoner is able to create a fey eidolon, so don't restrict it to just outsiders.

Since when does depraved = evil?

Well one, perhaps of a River Kingdom decent, might argue that a summoners bond puts the Eidolon at its control, and exercising such control to have sex with the Eidolon would be tantamount to rape. The same way using Charm/Dominate person to exact the same end would be considered rape.

So I'm okay with Rape == Evil.

Now you could spin the fluff a lot of different ways out of that box, like the eidolon serves the summoner because their bond is love, and the summoner doesn't actually force his will on the eidolon, but requests and eidolon does so, but your walking a find line between exploitive and voluntary there.

So if you want to really press the issue, perhaps the eidolon's bond is formed through carnal activities, and it is the summoner who must fornicate with the eidolon as a form of payment, in which case perhaps the summoner is the one being exploited, but they are doing so for their own power.

In the real world, any tying sex with power can get sticky fast in a judicial, and ethical perspective, in a fantasy game the way your fluff is perceived is through a different lens. Just appreciate that while how you character acts doesn't necessarily mean you believe or feel the same way, no amount of claiming otherwise might not still leave your fellow gamers uncomfortable. So the extent to which you take adult themes needs to be agreed to by everyone in your game.

Okay, so ... moral dilemma.

WHAT IF, much as the spells raise dead (and the like) specifically allow the person to decide "You know what? I don't want to come back," and the spell fails ... what if eidolons have a similar "creed" that stipulates they can tentatively read the summoner's mind, and if they strongly disagree with the intentions of the specific summoner, they themselves can refuse to be summoned?

In that sense, every eidolon-and-summoner pairing is necessarily one of mutual understanding and agreement, and this problem ceases to pose any problem whatsoever.

110. Find exactly as many kobold hatchlings as you have goblin babies. THUNDERDOME.

Broadhand wrote:

Kalindlara wrote:

Mikaze wrote:

Tacticslion wrote:

No, Rydia's summons really were actual creatures - she actually had to go meet them before she could summon them in the first place!

They even had their own kingdom down in the depths of the world.

Yeah, the Day Outside, Year Inside realm. There were some unusual cases involved in that game too, like one person becoming an Eidolon after death. Which made the Whytkin/"eidolon larva" thing introduced in the DS remake even less sensical. (I love almost everything else about that remake though)

There was one possible case that might have been close to what Rynjin WS thinking of, with the connection between Rydia's mother and her Eidolon, but I figured that was more of a bonded creature situation.

The Eidolons autonomy becomes more of a plot point in The After Years too.(which needs a Steam release already, SquareEnix)

(guess it's pretty obvious which FF is my favorite)

But... Celes.

:(

I still cry during the Opera. You're not alone.

That whole game IS an opera.

You ... I ... just ...

MIND = BLOWN

Mikaze wrote:

Tacticslion wrote:

No, Rydia's summons really were actual creatures - she actually had to go meet them before she could summon them in the first place!

They even had their own kingdom down in the depths of the world.

Yeah, the Day Outside, Year Inside realm. There were some unusual cases involved in that game too, like one person becoming an Eidolon after death. Which made the Whytkin/"eidolon larva" thing introduced in the DS remake even less sensical. (I love almost everything else about that remake though)

There was one possible case that might have been close to what Rynjin WS thinking of, with the connection between Rydia's mother and her Eidolon, but I figured that was more of a bonded creature situation.

The Eidolons autonomy becomes more of a plot point in The After Years too.(which needs a Steam release already, SquareEnix)

(guess it's pretty obvious which FF is my favorite)

But... Celes.

:(

I still cry during the Opera. You're not alone.

Well, hell. Feels like this thread died.

THANKS, PFS.

Classes I've home-brewed because there isn't one that can be done even from re-flavor:

1. A class that functions like Calculator from Final Fantasy Tactics.
2. A class that functions like Dragoons from the Final Fantasy universe (in-general).
3. A caster class who gets rid of all material/verbal components in exchange for prolonged casting times with many more somatic components.

Can we get back to the topic of summoners schtuping their eidolons, PLEASE?

One game, I banned all classes until level 2. You had to be an Isgerian commoner first. :D

That's nothing! I banned all classes until level 20.

LET'S SEE YOU GET CAPSTONES NOW, PCS.

StabbittyDoom wrote:

I would just flip it around on the DM and ask if I could DM them a one-shot about retrieving loot from a manor.

Tell them they don't know where the house is, and when they ask to look for it, say they're standing at the door. They didn't realize this because they hadn't asked yet.

"I open the door."

"You don't see a door."

"I look for a door."

"There's a door right in front of you."

"I open the door."

"You don't see a way to open the door."

Lather rinse repeat. Then after a while, switch it up.

"I check the room for monsters."

"No monsters."

"Alright, I loot the room."

"You get stabbed for 1d8 + 1 damage, roll initiative."

"WTF? I thought you said there were no monsters."

"Nope. None. There was a man, though."

It would take like 7 hours to get through a single CR 1/3 fight and grab an otherwise unguarded piece of loot that sits in plain sight, but it would prove the point: Forcing people to declare every perception check makes everyone a jackass, so don't do it.

In fact, expand that rule out further: If you are doing things, whether as player or DM, that force people to play defensively and have to anticipate your every move or lose horribly: You're being a jackass.

LOL you sound like one of those text based dungeons from the 80's.

Ye find yeself in yon dungeon. Ye see a FLASK. Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.

What wouldst thou deau?
>get ye flask

You can't get ye flask!

Wow Such Doge wrote:

pezlerpolychromatic wrote:

Greetings from the Wizard Most Wild, everyone! I, Pezler the Polychromatic, have been scouring the multiverse to answer these oddly fascinating questions! Here's what I've found so far:

1) Can eidolons have sex? Yes.

2) Do eidolons WANT to have sex? Yes!

3) With you? No.

That baby bump she's displaying most likely isn't yours, sport. Eidolons might be faithful to you on this plane of existence, but once they're dismissed...... I'm so sorry for you.

Honey, why does the baby look like the Planar Mailman?

Plus, his package is infinite.

Dorcus did the research, everybody!

Ashiel, I clearly need to hang out with you more. You seem to have the inside track on all the neatest and weirdest things.

"You're not losing the Fabio hair, so don't even."

Another quote-win. So many in this thread!

Monk Succubus. That way "Acrobatics" is a class skill, and Grappling is even more obvious against an Eidolon.
Easy!

2 evolution points:
The thread gains a new pair of legs.

So... I am WIGHT!!! =)

Would you rather be wight or happy?

For some reason, I'm reminded of this.

Robot Chicken is hilarious.

On a completely tangential note:

Okay, let's assume that a summoner can summon an eidolon with the intent of having non-procreative sex with it firmly in-mind.

What happens when the eidolon attempts to grapple a succubus?

Yeah, but what about his ability to re-arrange his own stats on his character sheet in the middle of battle?

Or am I the only one here who read 8-Bit Theater?

Wow, horrifying in spades. If you were my GM, I'm not sure how long it would take for me to trust your NPCs again.

Although not exactly the horrifying I'm looking for in my campaign; mostly just good secrets. Neat story, though.

That was precisely my point in doing so. The whole theme of the campaign became "don't trust what you think you know." I mostly messed with the meta-knowledge (i.e., what races looked like, how they functioned, etc., so that the DFL/Ranger wouldn't immediately, for instance, use fire/acid on that troll over there without any reason why he would know that), but it ended up being a good tool to get the party to think exceptionally critically before they took any actions, because EVERYTHING they did had consequences.

Oh, and I don't know if something like this has already been pitched, but:

Any of those grab your fancy?

I started a game once with an assassin and a cleric of a murderous deity in the party mix as NPCs.

"Rex" (a derring-do rogue like Robin Hood) and "Cleese" (a bumbling oaf who was a retainer of Rex's) were the two characters that these guys were playing. Their real names were Vesper (assassin) and Aren (cleric). [As an aside: for added fun, Vesper and Aren would switch who played "Rex" and who played "Cleese," just to see if anyone would notice ... to test the party's sense of perception.]

Because one of the party members had traveled with them for a short while without incident, all the PCs used meta-knowledge to assume that I had added them in as a benefit to the team, rather than a hindrance (two of the party members were on the "to be assassinated" list, and the other was Aren's preferred victim type). Also, these two were self-proclaimed leather tradesmen, who harvested the skin from their victims (part of Aren's ritualism) and turned it into leather products, which Vesper would happily sell back to the very village the "leather" came from. The PCs used meta-knowledge to presume that I had given them this "business" in order to help them earn money and reputation in the town they started in.

Furthermore, I dropped bread crumbs about a tribe of orcs being in the area, and that a young girl (the cleric's favored victim type) had gone missing. The de facto leader of the group declared the orcs were responsible [ASIDE: they weren't; it was the two NPCs, though the orcs were helping], and demanded the party venture out to confront them.

Knowing this ahead of time, Vesper went to the orcs and planted a bauble that belonged to the de-facto-PC-leader's fiancee in the pile of goods the orcs were interested in trading to the villagers.

So, here's how this plays out:
1. Party sneaks into area around campsite at night, when the nocturnal orcs are most active.
2. De Facto Leader (DFL) and Vesper/Rex approach the orcs. De Facto Leader stupidly declares that only he and Rex are in their party. The other two PCs are left to freeze on their own in the dark night of the desert with no food, water, or shelter, and nearly get killed by a cobra guarding its nest.
3. DFL agrees to eat and drink with the orcs who are celebrating. Food tastes funny; not a kind of meat DFL had ever had before.
4. DFL pretends to get drunk and roams around campsite, pretending to need to pee. He tries to sneak into each tent to see if the girl is in any of them.
5. When DFL sees guards at the back tent containing the tribe's shaman, he sneaks around the back of the tent and pokes a hole in the tent fabric to look inside. Inside is a crazy, old orc shaman, burning all kinds of sagebrush-like weeds for smoke while he beats on these huge drums in the center of the tent. No girl anywhere.

The next morning, the orcs offer their trade goods to "Rex" and DFL. DFL sees the bauble of his former girl; the orcs tell him to take it with their blessing. The simple gesture completely flips DFL's mind about the orcs, and the party returns to town (the two PCs left in the desert start verbally abusing DFL for his treatment and failure).

When the PCs get back to town, the head cleric of one of the temples comes running out to tell them a vision of a girl's skeleton buried in a pit in the sand, left behind after the orcs flee. The PCs immediately run back to where the encampment was, and they discover that the oversized drums were both hiding the physical location of the pit containing the girl AND masking any noises she would make underneath.

Long and short: DFL realizes he ate human meat while a girl was tortured to death.

... That kind of horrifying truth?

From the description:
The eidolon takes a form shaped by the summoner’s desires.

Part of this discussion comes down to whether the GM/campaign world/etc. considers an eidolon's mind/feelings/psychology as part of this "shaping" process.

My wife can't wait to read this entire thing.

We still have that popcorn? I'm enjoying this discussion.

Wow. I just meant "for having fun." That teaches me to proofread what I write...

I LOVE building memorable characters who break their racial molds. That said, I typically do that within the rules.

Examples:
- Elven Ranger with 18 STR, a penchant for warhammers ... and not much else. "I speak three languages: Common, Elven, and Warhammer -- and I speak the last one best."

- Halfling Barbarian who has struggled her whole life to be as strong as possible, because she just wasn't as good at anything else.

- A refined half-orc gentleman (INT 16, CHA 16) who has disguised himself among the lower classes because he's ashamed of being both orcish royalty AND a bastard child.

I'll add here - at this late point - that I am the GM of the game in-question.

The reason this question came up in the first place is:

1. The NPC had mere moments to look through the mail, open it, read the letter, and re-seal it.

2. To do anything other than what I suggested in my original post (open it carefully and then melt it back together in such a way that it didn't look disturbed) would have resulted in the PC knowing her mail had been tampered with (either because my NPC would have had to have taken the letter, or left it open and obviously damaged).

My wife (the PC in-question) suggested a heated needle would have been very ideal, and was often used in the past for just such a thing (she's a history buff).

3. Pathfinder source materials don't list a relevant skill for this particular procedure.

Thus, I posed the question.

So far, I find Disable Device to be the most convincing argument for how this trick was carried out. Other ways would/could have merited uses of: Knowledge (nobility) to know the color, shape, texture, etc. of wax to be used and where to procure such items; Linguistics if the symbol were broken, and how to put it back together so that the picture made sense; a combination of the two and/or Craft skills to reproduce the necessary seal out of "whole cloth," and perhaps affix said symbol to a brand new letter (forged or otherwise) in such a way that looked exactly like the original.

I can definitely see how Knowledge (nobility), Linguistics, and Craft (variable) could and would be used IF my NPC had been interested in faking the whole thing. She wasn't. She was interested in getting the information and getting the hell out of there without anyone suspecting anything.

As it was, my wife's PC made the necessary Perception check against Disable Device in order to recognize that it had been tampered with.

I just ran a session in which one of my NPCs - a 6th level rogue on her way to becoming an assassin - opened a wax seal on a letter, then used a heated needle to re-seal it, in order to make it look unbroken. I searched and searched, and I could not find an appropriate skill to use for it.

What skill would you use for re-sealing a wax seal on a letter? I know the opposed skill would be "Perception," but I'm confused as to which skill would set the target DC.

1. Paladins are no longer restricted to Lawful Good - they must agree with the alignment of their god (as opposed to the one-step-away that Clerics are required to be).
All paladins on the Good spectrum get "___ Evil" abilities and Positive-Energy channeling, all paladins on the Evil spectrum get "___ Good" abilities and Negative-Energy channeling.
Lawful Neutral Paladins get to choose energy channeling (static once chosen) and get "___ Chaos" abilities, Chaotic Neutral Paladins get to choose energy channeling (static once chosen) and get "___ Lawful" abilities.
True Neutral Paladins get (slow) scaling bonuses to Perception/Sense Motive, which can be expended in a "blast" once per day, and must expend HP equal to the damage/healing rolled in order to heal or harm all living/undead creatures in the radius.

2. If a character takes a significant (usually 50% or more) amount of damage on a single turn, I might come up with an imposition (broken arm, shattered kneecap, etc.), which can only be fixed through regenerative means (or just more than simple magic, like splinting a broken bone). Same goes for long falls, severely abrupt stops, and the like. I tend to make fights very cinematic.

3. A roll of "20" adds +10 to the subsequent roll IF that roll is above 11, otherwise the roll is 20. Likewise, a roll of "1" adds -10 to the subsequent roll IF that roll is under 10, otherwise the roll is 1. This can be repeated for truly epic results in either direction.