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andygal wrote:

For the record, according to the rules a Paladin falls immediately if they commit an evil act but NOT if they commit a chaotic act.

Paladins are supposed to be dedicated to good first, and then the law. A Paladin should have no problem opposing Cheliax because the laws are in service of evil.

If you want to have a chaotic good archtype of the Paladin in your game, you of course are welcome, but it's not really necessary in order to have a paladin oppose an evil government.

If a law is unjust the Paladin not only CAN oppose it, but it's his or her DUTY to do so. A regular Paladin would fit into Hell's Rebels just fine.

Benicio Del Espada wrote:
Stynkk wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
Not correct -- incorporeals take full damage from force effects.
Curses! Magic missile is a force effect.

And it's what my sorcerer did to the last spectral hand he fought. POOF! Didn't need all those missiles, after all! XD

Good times...

True, magic missile is a force effect and incorporeal creatures take full damage from force effects. However, magic missile specifically states that it only damages creatures. Having HP and an AC doesn't make you a creature. Weapons, armor, walls, pretty much everything has HP. You can sunder a sword, but you you cant damage it with magic missiles.

Tuyena wrote:
Just a note, you no longer need to worry about SR.

Ah, you are correct. Supernatural vs spell-like. So that's good.

I'm still worried that mystic bolts would be essentially useless against a lot of the higher level-creatures you'd fight (or anything with even low-level protection spells) due to them being limited to a specific energy type.

I posted comments on the following topics during the round one playtest:

1. Intimidate should be a class skill for all Vigilantes. The reaction here was overwhelming and it was an easy fix. Probably just an oversight in the first place. Either way, 100% satisfied.

2. Warlocks should have some ability to cast in armor. The Caster's Defense talent takes care of this nicely, and doesn't feel like too much of a 'tax' since Combat Casting is an ability that an armored warlock would probably want anyway.

3. Silent Dispatch sets a terrible, terrible, rules precedent. We debated extensively whether or not a stealthy one-shot take down was 'combat' (and hence DC -10 to hear). Then someone pointed out that the description of the Perception skill doesn't mention 'combat', it says "Hear the sound of battle" and I don't think anyone would consider a stealthy takedown to be 'battle'. In any case, I'm actually not too worried: I talked this over with my group and we unanimously agreed to throw out this rule if it made the final cut.

4. Various issues with Mystic Bolt. The rules clarification is very welcome. Now that it functions like a light weapon that rapidly pops in and out of existence, it is much easier to tell which feats/modifiers apply to it an which one's don't.
Now only one two major issues remain:
By limiting it to a single damage type (and the warlock certainly does NOT have spare talents to take Mystic Bolt multiple times) the ability becomes useless depressingly often. Especially as the Vigilante starts building a reputation ("And remember, the Caustic Avenger is patrolling the streets, so keep your potions of Protection From Acid handy.") The damage should either be untyped, or they should be able to swap damage types at will.
The damage still seems low (and actually had its bonus damage nerfed 75% between the 1st and 2nd playtest). If you could use Power Attack or Deadly Aim with it, that would be one thing (but it's a light weapon and a touch attack, so those options are out). Being able to get the Vigilante's dex or int bonus to damage would work as well (is there is some way to do this that I've missed?). Arcane Striker is something, but 2d6+6 (1d6+3 base, +3 arcane strike, +1d6 arcane striker) at 12th level is pretty darn weak. Those touch attacks will probably hit, but unlike weapon attacks you still need to worry about SR.

If you're going to compare Warlocks to Bards, don't skim over the value of casting in armor. The Vigilante comes with light & medium armor proficiency, but they are wasted on most Warlocks. A bard-like ability to cast in light armor (or perhaps a reduction in arcane spell failure percentage) would help balance this class out.

I actually built my first test-warlock assuming they COULD cast in armor, then was surprised to find that wasn't actually in the wording.

Thrawn007 wrote:

I'd personally like to see a talent chain built around the mystic bolt. Basically, make mystic bolt be a real choice against spellcasting.

Improved Mystic Bolt - Add an effect based on your mystic bolt type in addition to adding 1d6 damage. (selectable at 8th)
Acid:Save or sickened for 1 round
Electricity:save or dazed for 1 round
Fire:save or caught on fire for 1 round
Frost:save or entangle for 1 round
Save DC is 10+1/2 warlock level +int mod.

Greater Mystic Bolt - Add an additional 1d6 damage (on top of the d6 for improved), effects extend to 1d4 rounds (selectable at 12th)

Focused Bolt - Take weapon focus (Mystic Bolt) as a bonus feat. At 12th level, add weapon specialization (mystic bolt). At 18th level add greater weapon focus (mystic bolt) Selectable at level 6.

Critical Bolt - Take improved critical (Mystic Bolt). At 13th level add Critical Focus Mystic Bolt. At 18th level, add staggering critical (mystic bolt). Selectable at 8th.

Basically, this would give a real choice of whether to invest in mystic bolts vs investing in spellcasting. I'd like to see bombs be a third viable line of talents, but I don't think it would hold up to the other options. I like it at least being an option though.

Some good ideas here. As Archangel62 said, Mystic bolt should be untyped raw energy and talents like this could make it a viable alternate build to Warlock spellcasting.

Agreed. Given that they share class features that use it, Intimidate should be a class skill for all Vigilantes.

I'm sure the developers are tip-toeing around a certain 3.5 Warlock ability that wasn't covered by the OGL, but there should still be a good way to build a Vigilante who spends their talents enhancing this ability instead of spellcasting.

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calicokat wrote:

The action in question strikes me as a something that's difficult to perform without skill and training...

...and that skill and training should be skill and training in the Stealth area, covered by allocating skill points into Stealth.

This should be a basic something you can perform with Stealth.

I agree. A one-shot takedown is certainly not 'combat', and doing it quietly is one of the iconic uses of Stealth.

A clarification on what the relevant mechanics normally are and how this talent makes that easier would be welcome, but if it stays at DC -10 normally or stealth -5 with Silent Dispatch my group will ignore it entirely.