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![]() What about talking it out with your GM?
Say you max spellcraft out and crafted your own version of fireball, named "Hogeyhead's internal probe" that would, in a 20 ft radius zone burn the lungs and boil the blood of all living being for lvld6 fire damage (10d6 max). ![]()
![]() Go for a Diviner foresight wizard and win the game, no matter what bonus spell you select, because the bonuses are just that good. Now for the spells:
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![]() I'm GMing this AP as well (anniversary edition), and my party is overpowered too.
Now I also think that some fights are just not hard enough.
I'm balancing this all out by buffing the opposition. Basically, every opponent has most of its stats buffed up to a +2 (att, dmg, saves and so on) and I also max their HD. Also, you must really prepare ahead of time and imagine the best tactics possible in order to play the opponents efficiently. Last but not least, for meaningful fights, I allow myself to simply rewrite them.
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![]() Snowlilly wrote:
But then you'd be very short on feats to actually build your archer till high level. ![]()
![]() Chess Pwn, nevermind me really, it all started by me convincing myself the cavalier used divine power, for a reason I couldn't explain! Therefore I was wrong and you are right. Claxon wrote:
He didn't, I was the one reading the whole thing wrong. ![]()
![]() Several meaningful points: - I never said the Zen archer wins. I said he does better with haste than what you said. - One more time: you keep saying that divine powers users get one more attack when haste is cast.
- You also disregarded critical attacks (and possibly perfect strike). Obviously the guy sending 6 arrows/round gets more of them than the one sending 4 arrows, we can probably agree on that. - Yes sure, Divine archers are self sufficient in terms of buff. That doesn't mean in actual gameplay they do get that much more buffed than other archers. Once again OP hasn't asked who's the best lone archer in a vacuum. So once again, by your own calculations, the zen archer now reaches something like 120 DPR, almost closing the gap with the cavalier (123) and 10 DPR under the first round of a Chaplain.
Chaplain is still greatly better at DPR, I'll agree on that. Now let's talk Saving throws and touch AC! just joking ;) ![]()
![]() I disagree. Original poster hasn't asked "who is the best archer in a vacuum" but "who is the best archer" By your own calculations, a level 10 divine power user has 4 attacks per round, no matter if haste is cast or not.
That's 2 more attacks at full BAB. Now I'm no math wizard and maybe 2 more attacks at +19 isn't worth it, but I'd really love to see proof of that. And, since probably no one here plays solo, I wonder why it is so hard to imagine that the Zen archer couldn't also get some prebuffs cast by his friends. A caster with a zen archer on his team will most probably agree that casting Heroism on him before a fight is indeed great expenditure of his ressources. But yeah of course, all this makes calculations harder even if, in actual gameplay, it seems pretty legit to me. ![]()
![]() Woah hey guys all I said was "most often then not".
I said that just so that people reading this post and trying to build the best archer possible will knowingly chose an archer that reflect their parties tactics. TL:DR: if your party often casts Haste/Blessing of fervor, your monks archer will do better then you'd expect if you only read the DPS raw results. ![]()
![]() Most often than not though, you'll be playing under a haste effect if you have a decent team. And Divine powers' extra attack doesn't stack with the haste extra attack.
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![]() Seems to me like you have to go lovecraftian on this.
Think Confusion, Phobia, Feeblemind, Suffocation, Horricfic doubles, Vengeful Outrage, Black tentacles, Phantasmal putrefaction, Fear, Enervation, Audiovisual hallucination, Blindness/deafness, Hungry earth, Caustic blood, Banshee blast, Acid pit, ![]()
![]() Sleep is a good way for a wizard to deal with a bunch of level 1 PCs. Spells like Obscuring mist, Cause fear, Ray of sickening/exhaustion wouldn't instantly give away his level. Glueseal or Peacebound are rarely used and, should you provide a flashy description, would make a great impression. Windy escape is an immediate action defense spell that should really surprise them. ![]()
![]() IMHO I feel like you have too many blasting spells and not enough defensive and buffs spells.
First, I see many redudancies in your blast selection.
Burning hands deal useless damage to this point AND put you at risk by getting close to your opponents. Seeing as you have no defenses at all, avoid it.
You also have Fire ray as a power AND Magic missile AND acid arrow AND scorching ray. They all function in the same way and do nothing else than dealing damage. What's the point in having three of them?
Secondly, relying solely on invisibility AND Greater invisibility (seriously, don't take both) to survive seems very dangerous to me. Almost suicidal in fact. Blasting sorcerors are the main focus of any intelligent foe. Mirror image, displacement, dimension door, alter self, emergency force sphere, globe of invulnerability, dispel magic, resilient sphere, liberating command, protection from evil...pick a couple, they would all greatly improve your chances (and your group's chances) to survive. You also need a plan when damaging spells won't do the job (Golems, SR, Globe of invulnerability...)
I don't mean to say your spell list is bad, but it can be improved for your own good. honestly you don't need that many ways to do the same action. Select a few good blast and stick to them, then use your other spells known to be flexible, you'll see how satisfying it is to have the good spell to solve a problem. ![]()
![]() My picks: 1st Level:
2nd Level:
3rd Level:
4th Level:
5th Level:
To deal with SRE you might wanna check the spells that ignore the problem. Telekinetic charge is a great example. You might also wanna check Cloud spells (Cloudkill, Stinking Cloud...), Summon spells (summon monster, summon swarm..) and Pit spells (Create pit, acid pit, hungry pit, spiked pit..) And also:
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![]() General recommendations would be the highest +Int object available and the highest +to save object available.
You could also buy a Cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone (+1 init) for 500gp.
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![]() Avoron wrote:
I actually had to go and re-read the decription of the spell, just to make sure your point was not to...err...fart'em to oblivion. ![]()
![]() 1st spell level:
Spell Level 5:
Then land a second hit. If opponent is down with 1st or 2nd hit, great cleave applies.
Spell Level 6
And then:
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![]() Hire my DM.
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![]() DominusMegadeus wrote: In place of Archmagi, consider Otherworldly Kimono for double the CL check bonus applying to all CL checks. Along with Maze 1/day, I think it's something to take into consideration. Damn I missed that one...I would definitly have crafted this one instead! (the Armor bonus and the SR are useless at this level) ![]()
![]() That's a pretty good amounnt for a 17th level wizard I made one not long ago at lvl 15 I think. I don't have the sheet with me but i have my notes, so here's the stuff I picked (the prices , as much as I remember, included the discount for crafting feats): Robe of archmagi 37.500gp (you can get a better AC with an enchanted Haramaki and better saves with a cloak of resistance but you'd lose out the +2 caster level to overcome SR, which is the real gem here) Belt of physical might (con/dex)+4 20000gp Headband of vast intellect +6 45000gp Handy haversack 2000gp + Gloves of storing 5000gp (to manage your meta rods and scrolls) Annihilation spectacles 12500 gp (transmutation flexibility? Yes please) Mithral buckler +5 (26000gp? better check it out) Cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone 500gp (you're doing a divination specialist already right?) Pearls of power: one of each from level 1 to 4 (15000gp, you can afford higher levels) Dweomer's essenceX10 2500gp (take this even if you're an elf with all the good feats, it's a must have) Metamagical gems (silent, quicken, empower one of each) (forgot to write down prices) Lesser empowering rod 9000 gp
Various scrolls and wands for me and my familiar including the prerequisites needed in order to craft most of my stuff (pick opposed school ones for your familiar) Since you have much more money than I do, go for a Tome of clear thought +4 at 110000 gp (above all if the "wish" spell was your level 9 pick and you have the craft wondrous item feat) Go for the Belt of physical might +6 too, "only" 25.000 above the +4 Maybe swap the Headband of vast intell for a Headband of mental prowess, pumping your Intell AND Wisdom by +6 is a great expenditure of your money ![]()
![]() If you're willing to mix "bare" hands and actual weapons, you could also go the Bloodrager/Dragon disciple road for an insane strength bonus and some nice perks. And a hell of a style. The Dragon bloodline gives you 2 claws right off the bat, a good elemental resistance, some natural armor plus a breath weapon later on.
The Dragon disciple prestige class will give you a good bite pretty quickly (primary and soon enhanced by your element), and then improve your natural armor, your strength and constitution.
As a bloodrager you also get the ability to cast some great self buff spells like enlarge person, mirror image... Obviously it doesn't give you access to Beast totem, but I reckon some ways to get the next closest thing, aka pummeling style were mentionned earlier. Now picture a large sized enraged half-dragon charging from the sky and beating the s**t out of everything in its path with his claws and teeth harnessing the force of a trainwreck, and then tell me you don't want to try it. ![]()
![]() Mystic Madness wrote:
I used to think the same. Untill we played higher levels with my illusion specialist.It's NOT fun at all when half the foes you meet actually see through your illusions through native powers (so many senses and powers trump visual illusions) or simply knowing who you are and preparing accordingly. Core only I think Conjuration and Transmutation remain superior for their spell list.
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![]() The Human Diversion wrote:
Bloodrager (Steelsoul) makes for an awesome entry into the class. Human as usualPower attack is probably the only real prereq, the rest is up to you. I'd take Arcane Strike, Focus Claws and maybe Bite too. And toughness/Iron Will As for traits, Berserker of the society is a must have (more rage rounds). Carefully hidden is useful too. You have few spells really. I'd focus on enlarge person/protection from Evil at level 1
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![]() Mr Babadook wrote: When I said the sob thing about Wizards I was being sarcastic for sure but meant no offense. My point was is the Swashbuckler scares the DM then what does he do when a real broken class shows up. I wasn't offended at all by your post, I don't think anyone was. And I actually think exactly like you: if OP's GM thibnks swashbuckler is overpowered, then he should ban Barbarians and wizards. I was just trying to show that, after reading the whole thread, I thought a lot that was coming up is "they do x and y and z a lot worse than, say, the Barbarian"
The Cube of Rubix wrote: You would hate my paladin then.. well he is a Gestalt of Paladin and Swashbuckler. I wouldn't hate you really, since you'd help my party survive! But boy, Merwick Finn, my swashbuckler, would give him a hard time for picking up the easy way! ;)![]()
![]() Blackwaltzomega wrote:
Well I'm not a fan either, really. But many frontliners have this problem, I'm just used to deal with it and I don't feel like it makes this class unplayable or even under par. And I'm with you on the drinking problem. My swashbuckler is a night owl and a heavy social drikner. But guess what, I made him unable to handle alcohol, and it became a fun ropleplaying perk.Blackwaltzomega wrote: It would have been more keeping in the all-day advantage of martial classes if the Swashbuckler had kept its weak saves but been compensated by making Charmed life like a Canny Defense for Saves; as you level up, you get an increasing charisma bonus to all your saves at all times, no actions required. One, this would let the Swashbuckler parry/riposte and use all of their deeds without sacrificing their Charmed Life usage, two, you can't argue it's overpowered since Paladins, an extremely balanced class, get full Charisma to saves at level 2 AND have two strong saves to begin with, and three, it lets the Swashbuckler focus on his deeds and panache rather than trying to track two separately draining pools that use up the same action to activate. I'm gonna have to disagree here on paladins. I do find them overpowered or, at least, unbalanced. The +Cha to saves appears to me (and my whole group) like a totally cheesy add to a class that already has full BAB, casting ability, self healing or a dman swift action, burst of damage and defense, a mount and perfectly nice saves to start with. ![]()
![]() wraithstrike wrote: How you feel and what people mean are not the same thing. Ok, you're right I apologize for mindreading. I'm gonna shut up and let others do the talk. Protoman wrote: The class is still effective if one pays for all the necessary feats. But nowhere near as strong as some pure Strength builds or Archery builds available (2-handed Power Attack Barbarian or Zen Archer as primary examples) Arachnofiend wrote: The Swashbuckler is fairly terrible, actually. Overuse of the swift action means that the Swash will rarely get to use many of her tools, and even the ones that you can use are nowhere near as strong as the Barbarian/Paladin/Ranger. Mr Babadook wrote: I am now very curious what this GM does when someone rolls a wizard, does he just sob? Cause there is seriously no comparison in terms of power. What about Barbarians do they have to use d8s at your table as well? Blackwaltzomega wrote: The Swashbuckler's balance is just fine. If anything, the class is actually rather weak. It's easily out-damaged by a fighter, ranger, or barbarian making use of a two-handed weapon, and it is laughably outclassed as a mobile damage-dealer by the Brawler with his Pummeling Style online. RumpinRufus wrote: If you compare Swashbuckler to other core classes like Barbarian or Wizard, there's definitely nothing unbalanced about the Swash. Just a Guess wrote: The Barbarian, the cavalier and, depending on the enemies, the paladin can deal the same amount of damage. And often with less feats needed. Anewor7 wrote: So someone can feel free to direct me to a Barbarian of mwahaha Death Lemmy wrote: A single level of SB (or daring champion Cavalier) followed by 19 of Urban Barbarian is also much better (...) Also, Barbarians can have both flight and Pounce. Plus a lot of other cool tricks, like breaking magic. Argus The Slayer wrote: Any marginally well built two handed Barbarian or Fighter is going to do more damage across a larger variety of combat situations than a Swashbuckler (...) The Swashbuckler may have a few more options in combat, but they aren't significantly better than either a Fighter or a Barbarian in combat (...) Outside of combat, a Swashbuckler probably has a few more skills available to chose from, but I would say they are on par with Barbarians and Lore Warden Fighters in that regard, and still behind a Ranger or Slayer. Avoron wrote: Yeah, the most mobile combat classes are Druids, Barbarians, and Summoners wraithstrike wrote: By now someone has probably mentioned barbarians and how they can get pretty good AC, and between raging and the DR can deal with taking the AoO, even if they get hit. I consider them to be better mobile combatants, if they have pounce that is Edit: Seems like Genuine is mindreading too. ![]()
![]() wraithstrike wrote:
It wasn't adressed to you. I just read the whole thread, and this is the feeling I got. Because let's face it, what are the features that make a front liner considered mobile? Extra movement and pounce.You either get this by feats that any martial character can have, or by...being a barbarian. Besides I think the multiples Aoo's the swashbuckler gets added to Opportune parry and riposte and dodging panache are pretty good "mobile" option, really. I also believe pounce is kinda overratted as a "mobile" option. It's an awesome power, really, but most of the times the first charge gets you to where the action is, and you can rarely get another charge during that fight. Making it more an opener than a really "mobile" option, imho ![]()
![]() So basically the Swashbuckler's problem is that...it's not as good as a Barbarian?
I play a Swaskbuckler (Inspired blade) in Kingmaker, and I'm having a lot of fun with him while being very effective. Sure he has a saves "problem".
I find this boring. I want my characters to have some flaws. It makes them actually much more fun to play, and helps making the others players shine when I'm calling for their help. So my swashbuckler is somewhat lackluster on fortitude and will saves? Good! Then my bard and my priest can save my ass, getting their pat on the back after the fight, ensuring next time I'll step between the bad guy and them to protect and save them cause, you know, I'm a swashbuckler, this is what I do. ![]()
![]() Keyafay, thanks a lot really.
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![]() As far as music goes, it's pretty easy: I'm not sold on the horde though. I believe players would rather die to an epic ennemy (above all if they're coming back for him after death) rather that to pawns. Even if there are thousands of them. But maybe that's just me.
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![]() Tarantula wrote:
Wait. Breath of life is a 5th level spell, and you expect an Oracle to have it. Yet you're surprised that an 8th level Barbarian (the needed level to cast Breath of Life for an oracle) can reach 24+ damage? At 8th level?Power attack alone adds 9 dmg on a greatsword with a +8 BAB.
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![]() AS a GM it's banned in all my games. That's actually the only power/feat/spell that is banned in my games.
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![]() Undone wrote:
1 level of unbreakable Fighter solves that, and gives you proficiencies. Plus you can get Increased Damage Reduction up to 3 times![]()
![]() JuanAdriel wrote: IMHO instead of thinking on tactics tricks and other subjects to nerf or just kill the player, I stick to the ones that say that you must talk to him, probably you all are a bunch of friends. Tell him to try to not augment more his bow attacks, and retrain his cleric level to inquisitor, because he already is good enought and doesn't need that boost. Just the recon that he is creating a monster character will be enough award in a friends group. Amen to that. When I'm about to create a monster or exploit a rule or a combo, what I do is I explain it right before the game start out loud and describe it and what it would do. And then add: "even I wouldn't actually use that." But they just know I could. And that alone makes me happy, and I can go back to playing an optimised but enjoyable dude.Oh btw i'm playing a Zen archer right now in Kingmaker. And i'm head and shoulders above all the rest of the team's DPS. So I agreed with my GM to not go the Improved Snap Shot line. And we'll probably skip the Clustered shots line too. I'm fine with that. ![]()
![]() Prethen wrote: Imbicatus, I sent you a PM regarding Qinggong. I'm going for that build. I'm concerned about legality though. Are there Qinggong or Zen Archer abilities now that I have to juggle between? Here's a link that will make you feel better about it: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9qnl I'd swap out Slow fall for Barkskin asap.
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![]() daryl patino wrote:
If you start at level 1 with that much money, a level one pearl of power might be your best option. Other than that, cards are the best way to keep track of spells known and description.
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