Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 36 posts (83 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.
I see no reason I couldn't have a character who believes in collectivist anarchism though. Is that character lawful or chaotic?
They are an oxymoron.
Collectivist Anarchism was a real thing that people took seriously, so clearly not an oxymoron.
At my table, I would say that character is likely good, but conflicted on the law-chaos spectrum and is neutral.
Collectivist Anarchism, and/or idealist Marxism, has always struggled to be successful in real life. Specifically because it has always fallen quickly to anarchy or authoritarianism.
So this conflict within the character works with the metaphysical forces of the game defined in this way.
Again, I have no problems with people having other views on Law/Chaos...this is the definition I enjoy, and would hope they don't scrap!
Well, many political philosophers have considered the "benevolent dictator" to be the best form of government except for a crucial flaw: Ensuring they and those who come next are and remain benevolent since they now lack oversight! (Historically, strings of good monarchs/emperors only lasted so long, it only taking one to derail the whole endeavor.)
Ya thats what I meant.
Law is collectivist and authoritarian
Chaos is individualist and libertarian
I for one always appreciated the law/chaos dynamic. Though it's certainly true that different authors have defined the axis inconsistently over the years.
I see it fundamentally as,
Collectivism/individualism
Authoritarian/libertarian
In my head cannon at least.
And yes, free willed good and evil people will have issue with dictators, whether they are motivated by good or evil.
I think this works well.
It gets messy when some authors think that lawful means always (as in always good, always evil etc) or that chaos means random.
While I dont think its a problem to have the fake it to you make it CHA themed Thaumaturge,
I think its more important to get an INT and/or WIS based version of the class that is actually based on study and/or understanding.
Those character archetypes in fantasy fiction or fairly common. Warhammer Witchhunters, Van Hellsing, Constantine, etc are not well served by this CHA version of the class.
"Restoration cures all temporary ability damage, and it restores all points permanently drained from a single ability score (your choice if more than one is drained). "
As to the OP. I like them a lot, except the no vengeance for yourself.
Ragathiel is Heaven's general in the war against hell. He seeks vengeance personally every day. Vengeance need not be a non-good action. It is simply Justice, when you yourself were the victim.
If a follower of Ragathiel comes across a family whose children were murdered, he would probably seek out the murderer. But if it was his children, he can't?
Having to kill an evil doer every day is fine as his Obedience.
Ragathiel and his followers are crusaders. They are meant to throw themselves endlessly into the battle against, cultists, demons etc. The obedience states that the slain can not just be random evil people, it asks for more.
It would be very difficult to flavor (at least to my satisfaction) a follower of Ragathiel serving and/or working for pathfinders. But there is a lot of character concepts in Pathfinder Society that are pretty loose in the fluff aspect.
Having the obedience does not require you to do it everyday, you just gain no benefit for when you do not. It is a difficult requirement to meet everyday. It should not be met everyday. The benefits of the Obedience are Ragathiel's favor and reward for furthering his vendetta against the forces of evil. A Paladin of Ragathiel who is killing for the sole purpose of his Obedience should fall.
The hour long ritual does not have to be a ritualized murder or sacrifice. Rather it is an hour long prayer and self-reflection, in which the Paladin comes to terms with the necessity of the slaying, the cost of the lost of life, and its effects on his being/soul, etc.
Redemption is not necessarily a topic that Lawful Good people need to be concerned about. Especially ones concerned with Justice. If you commit evil deeds you must pay the price to society/the gods before redemption can be considered. In some cases your price is just to high. Yes Ragathiel is very familiar with evil from his background. His redemption/struggle to goodness was through his own actions. If one wants to be redeemed, that is a choice that must come from within. He would support ex-evil doers who have turned a new leaf and are living lives as champions of good, buts its not his responsibility to help evil people make that choice.
Also, Vengeance, well not typically associated with "Good" does not have to be evil or even neutral. Justice is a similarly loaded word, yet we accept that justice while more of a Lawful topic, can be Good or Evil. Vengeance in many ways is just Justice, that is personal.
There is nothing in his write up that suggests he is ok with his followers being "murder-hobos," especially Paladins.
Now an inquisitor of Ragathiel, who is LN and a bit of a "murder-hobbo," well that could be fun.
Clerics are a really powerful addition to the party, especially in the first adventure due to the plethora of ghosts. If u need to add a healer I would consider a healing focused bard or alchemist.
In the Legacy of Fire campaign,there is a mention of somethic called Ebon Flame. invented by the archwizard nex, its essentially endothermic fire. I.E. fire that does cold damage.
If he's going to be a sorcerer, not much harm in saying his elemental bloodline stems from one of Nex's experiments, and just have his fire spells do cold damage.
Treasure is usually buried in a wall of text, and is easily missed.
Also you guys may just be failing at perception checks! Either not looking into the right places, or rolling poorly when it matters.
That said, most of the loot (value wise) is concentrated in a couple locations/npcs. I'm sure you will be happier by the time you finish.
Also, every GM, needs to take treasure into their own hands to some extent. Limiting/enhancing treasure to keep the group in the level your comfortable with and desire. (Playing low magic games can be really fun! Though LoF, probably doesn't fit that mold).
But if you guys haven't done the Battle Market and stuff after that yet, don't worry about loot, you should get some soon.
From my own experience, there was a plethora of loot in the first adventure, by the end the group was substantially past the wealth by level estimate. Though we did run the set piece adventure as well.
How many players are in your group? We had 4 characters, if you have more obviously loot distribution would be limited..
Also, there is a lot of adventuring you guys have left to do, things could turn around, complain at the end of the adventure!
Inquisitors are not Paladins. They do not lose their powers if they perform an act that is against their alignment.
They lose their powers when they have performed such actions frequently enough to change their alignment to one their God can not abide.
Torture is evil.
Performing an evil act does not immediately change your alignment. How frequently you would have to engage in said torture to change your alignment is up to your DM.
If it is completely unjustified and performed with rational cold intent...your alignment will change a lot quicker than if you perform said torture in a fit of passion that you then deeply regret.
Overtime he will change to an Evil alignment and lose his powers, unless he spends a lot of time performing a lot of good actions.
If the character wants to have this moral tension as part of their character, a N alignment, worshiping a good god makes more since.
A character that makes a habit of engaging in torture (IE more than just once or twice in incredible duress) should not be good.
That's already been answered though, it's working as intended. "Water balloons", realistically speaking, are just going to be inferior to bows
I have heard again and again how disappointing the water balloon posts were to so many people, but I think that it is really best to let it be water under the bridge. I felt similarly at the time, too, and the snark was irrepressible when the sting was fresh... but that's old, now.
Move forward, provide feedback, try to effect positive change, don't let it pain you like an old wound. And don't use it as a reason to be bitter (...I remind myself).
If you can change developers' minds about those things through useful feedback rather than through anger, then there will be no more reason to care about what once was.
So talk about constructive things. Perhaps how you want your slings calibrated to fantasy expectations, like the sling of Karajuk the Shepherd of Turkish story, which was so powerful that it threw up earth like artillery shells do when it missed. Not about that old post again and again.
This. So much this.
Especially concerning unarmed monks.
I really can't agree with this argument.
None of the designers of d20 are/were medieval historians. The system isn't based on history, or reality. Its complete fiction.
I see no problem with someone being able to play out their monk unarmed fantasy while others get to play out their two-handed sword fantasy that is just as ridiculous.
The fact that this two-hand sword fantasy is so bizarrely the most optimal way to make a martial character, when it bares so little connection with reality is pretty lame.
I support opening up the game to different character concepts. Its fantasy. You can claim the game has some relation to reality...but no it just doesn't.
Two handed swords are defensive weapons meant solely to deflect pikes on an advance. The upper quillons were not spiky bits that look cool, its a second hand guard so that the sword could be used a short-spear to actually hurt someone with.
Longbows were awesome, sure. 5 or 6 shots in 6 seconds...yeah no.
Slings were actually used extensively in battle. They have several advantages over bows and vice versa. In game, they just suck.
Shields were the most important equipment carried into battle...not in d20,they give +1 to ac...
The entire system is based on fantasy. Thats great, I like fantasy! Even fantasy involving unarmed martial art masters and rapier wielding duelists.
I do not play Pathfinder Society. And while I know your living campaign is popular I believe the majority of pathfinder players play their own campaigns, with their own GMs.
We all know, there are many things in Pathfinder that are broken. Sometimes these hurt PFS (From My understanding) and I know some archetypes are banned in PFS, this doesn’t bother me. Every GM needs to come up with their own house rules to ensure game balance. And the nature of a Living Campaign requires such action.
However, in my home game, it is my GM’s task to handle balance, and to create house rules as they are necessary. Crane wing can be broken, especially when taken at a low level because of a broken Archetype, but its also the only mechanical benefit that was worth taking to build a duelist style fighter around.
Now in one of my home games, which I have been playing nearly every week for two years, my dashing noble duelist, renowned throughout the kingdom for his unmatched ability in a one on one duel with a rapier, will wake up in our next meet and be completely incapable of doing the one thing he is supposed to be good at. He does 1/3rd of the damage of a barbarian, and now has less defense than someone using a shield.
Sure, maybe we can house rule this and use the old rules. But its much easier In any group to ban what is broken on a case by case basis than buff what isn’t.
Pathfinder is not and should not be World of Warcraft. I play pen and paper role playing games. If I wanted to play World of Warcraft and have the mechanics of my character change every week, I would do so. Pathfinder and/or DnD will never be "balanced" despite anything you do. Balance is taken care of by our GMs, or by me when I'm GMing. Changes like this ruin characters and they ruin games.
If GMs in PFS can’t have the latitude to ban things that they deem unbalanced or inappropriate on a case by case basis, please have sweeping changes like this, only affect the PFS crowd.
Sincerely,
A loyal costumer for many years, growing increasingly disturbed
For the record, I chose Human because they classically make the best Fighters while the favored class option for Aasimars make them the best choice for Dervishes of Dawn.
The point of the thread is to compare the attack and damage bonus between the Dervish and the Fighter, keeping to class features and a few basic feats that can be assumed to have been taken at the earliest possible opportunity.
Fighter
Included in the comparison:
BAB, Weapon Training, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization
Dervish of Dawn
Included in the comparison:
BAB, Battle Dance - Inspire Courage, Weapon Focus, Arcane Strike, Aasimar favored class option for Bards
Now of course there are other factors to consider when discussing melee combat - Fighters gain additional iterative attacks at a higher rate and have the advantage of Armor training as well. Dervishes meanwhile can make use of spells to significantly enhance their combat abilities. At higher levels they can also bounce back and forth between the various Inspires (Inspire Greatness for +4 attack & 4d10+Con temporary hit points and Inspire Heroics for +8 saves and +8 AC) as a Swift action and can cast Cure spells while still taking standard actions to attack.
I'm playing part of a Dervish duo in Wrath of the Righteous and I found the comparison interesting.
First, Your giving the Bard the benefit of a feat (Arcane Strike) along with its class features and comparing it to a pretty bare bones fighters. To really have any relevancy whatsoever the fighter should at least have power attack.
Second your comparing a highly optimized build (assimar bard, the favored class bonus is stupid) vs a very poor build (Fighter one hand fighter)
If you are tying to make a statement pointing out that the Dawnflower Dervish is overpowered (and it is very good, I play one) then you should have better controls.
Its like comparing a 100 dollar whiskey to 8 dollar vodka and declaring that whiskey is always better. (you'd be right, but your comparison would be worthless, lol)
A human fighter two handing a greatsword. With BAB, Weapon Training, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, Power Attack, Furious Focus
Verse a Human Dawnflower Dervish Bard with BAB, Battle Dance - Inspire Courage, Weapon Focus, Arcane Strike,
As for stopping the government, the Democrats could have accepted any of the Republican proposals and kept the government running.
You're not even reading this thread, are you? :P
I'm reading it. Some people aren't acknowledging that the Democrats could have accepted the Republican budget and kept the government running. Oh sure, they would have felt that they just handed over a baby to be dropped in a blender, but the Republicans would have felt the same way if they accepted the Democrat budget.
Congress already passed the PPACA. It has to be funded until it is repealed. Laws cannot be repealed by refusing to sign funding bills. Additionally, concessions and negotiations were already made 3 years ago to such an extent that Obama is criticized heavily for compromising too much with conservatives. I am sorry but you clearly just do not understand what is going on here.
This is completely wrong.
The Anti-Deficiency Act of 1984 allows congress to kill government programs by not funding them.
It also makes it illegal for the Executive branch to continue government programs that have been de-funded.
Indeed, Torag, a LG deity excepts animal sacrifices.
And as I mentioned above, Ragathiel, excepts the sacrifice of humans, provided they had committed grievous evil actions.
Depending on his character, especially if he is more tribal and/or ignorant of standard society, I think its very fitting for a barbarian to respect, and worship, Rovagug, without being evil. He is the god of destruction and bestial rage!
In the barbarian's ignorance he may just not fully understand all that Rovagug's faith desire. He worships Rovagug, because Rovagug is strong. Rovagug is angry and violent. All traits that Barbarians share, even the good ones!
Is this wrong, well yeah, but characters, just like people can be wrong! Look at how many people have committed grievous acts of murder in the name of God/Allah. These are evil people who worship a good god! Is the opposite not possible?
Its a group game, and sometimes when you roleplay you need to chose the option that not only makes since for your character, but also allows everyone else to play their own characters as well.
This is a give and take. Its possible for good characters of good gods to work with this barbarian. Even likely in some cases. Evil actions deserved to be punished. Ignorance however needs education and reform, not punishment!
Well according to Chronicles of the Righteous the cult of Ragathiel believes in human sacrifice...
Their cult obedience is the ritualized murder of an evil humanoid. Yes that is justice, in a way, but it is done as part of prayer, and definitely has that sort of good sort of wrong flavor to it.
In my opinion, I dont think Ragathiel would care about animal sacrifice. Considering his background, his familiarity with evil on a personal level, he would probably want to work with this barbarian. Turning evil, violence, and destruction into tools to use against evil is very much Ragathiels mojo.
At our last session, a player who was playing a lvl 1 alchemist wanted to use his wand of cure light wounds. The GM informed him that he could not do so without making a Use Magic Device skill check. The player argued that his character had a spell list, because his formulas acted like spells, but the GM ruled against it. His ruling was based on the idea that
1. The class receives Use Magic Device as a class skill.
2. The book says that alchemists are able to make three types of magic items, which include extracts, bombs, and mutagens. So they are not spells.
Was the GM correct in making the alchemist use his skill to activate the wand?
Quote:
Although the alchemist doesn’t actually cast spells, he does have a formulae list that determines what extracts he can create. An alchemist can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formulae list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so).
I would agree boosting STR is better than DEX. STR frees you from having to take a feat (Weapon Finesse) and opens you up to using more weapons.
I disagree entirely that the Flowing Monk is weak, or that the Maneuver Master is better.
Consider this,
At first level
Be Half-Elf, take ancestral arms to get Exotic Weapon Profiency with the Kusari-Gama.
Take Improved Trip as your Monk Feat,
And Furry's Fall as your 1st level feat.
With a 25 Point Buy
16+2, str
15, dex
14, con
10, int
14, wis
8, cha
You will have a +8 CMB, more importantly you can flurry to make two trip attempts at range.
If you are charged you get an attack of opportunity (Which you can use to trip someone) and then your Flowing Monk ability to trip them if that misses.
At higher levels, use your unarmed strike for primary damage, while holding the kusari-gama to threaten range attacks of opportunity. (Combat Reflexes will be awesome at 3rd level)
Class Traits: Aura of good(ex); detect evil(sp); smite evil(su) 1/day
Background
Spoiler:
Holy warrior is a name he has been called. One typically thinks of people in shining armor and stuck up chins preaching about how good their diety is. Marcus's faith is different. He has always felt the call to do something but the caller has been without form. Marcus prays to no gods he meditates upon virtue, honor, and goodness then acts accordingly.
Marcus appears in used armor and a tattered cloak. His weapons are old but sharp and well oiled. He has the look of a woodsman more than a knight.
Marcus spends most days hunting for food which he brings to hungry people. When not hunting, he finds himself walking among people. He has a habit of sitting and listening to anybody. He sees the best way to convince another that the virtuous path is best is by living that way; lead by example.
