Bluddwolf's page

captain yesterday wrote:

Of course, Lovecraft and Tolkien died decades ago, this dude is still alive and cashing the checks.

That's largely why I'd have problems with that attitude. I wouldn't want to support that myself.

But I wouldn't demand everyone else hold to that. It's the constant juxtaposition of "I only care about the game" with "He's really not so bad" that gets to me.

I did not juxtapose (swap out) anything. I said the game system has some I interesting elements and even if the guy was guilty, he served his time and hopefully he does not repeat through actions what he went to jail for.

In the new expansion of the game, into a new setting, the game really does not deal with issues of character race, all characters are of the same race. Apparently the new "bad guy" is various globalist entities. The story for each is a little weak in my opinion, actually the overall story of the apocalypse is a bit cliche and uninteresting.

However, in character creation, each player must roll a D4 to determine the number of flaws their character will have. Having a character begin with a number of mental, social or physical flaws is once again and interesting element in game design. It will create some interesting Roleplaying opportunities that you normally don't see in an RPG.

Bluddwolf wrote:

Again, not familiar with everything the guy has written or did. The game is either a good system or it's not. If I started being so selective in my entertainment and the full access to the background of every single person associated with that product, I'd probably not be able to read, watch or play anything.

You don't have to have "full access to the background of every single person associated with that product", this is pretty much a one man show and he's pretty blatant about it.

He's a convicted murderer and arsonist.

If you don't care, that's fine. Your business. Hiding behind "I'd have to check everything anyone involved with every product has ever said or done" is b#+*&*@%. Or comparing Vikernes with far milder people "expressing pride in whiteness", for example. If you don't care, just own it. Don't try to defend him.

I gladly own my specific, exact statements.

The game has some interesting elements and overall it is quite good in my opinion. I view the game system as a separate issue from his personal politics and from his past actions. Even if he were truly guilty, he served the time, and hopefully he has learned to keep his thoughts and beliefs separate from his actions.

The game, the game, the game is what I'm interested in.

Bluddwolf wrote:

Irontruth wrote:

When I make a purchase, one of the things I do consider is who I'm giving my money to. Sometimes it sways my decision, sometimes it doesn't. Since it's my money, I'm allowed to do that. Just like it's your money, and you're allowed to spend it how you like.

I am curious about the game and want to read it at some point, but I have no interest in giving Mr. Vikernes any of my money to do so. I enjoy a good Nordic setting and even play several other games, both historical and fantastical, that have Nordic elements.

I agree and often do the same. There are some people that I chose not to put my money towards their products. That is a basic freedom of speech issue, that I fully support and respect.

I've since your original post looked into some of Varg Vikernes' statements and history, albeit it being Wikipedia and other internet based postings. He certainly has some issue with attaching a defining terminology to his beliefs, and a one point he does claim to be a "racist" but his definition is not the typical definition of the term.

I go back to the argument, you can express pride in just about anything but if you express pride in being white, that is "racist". I don't buy into that, just as I don't buy into ridiculing persons that lived a century or so ago for not having the same social sensibilities that I may hold today.

Sure some of the writing (stories) of Robert E Howard, H.P. Lovecraft or J.R.R. Tolkein are racially insensitive in our modern view, but that does not take away from their storytelling or the characters or Mythos that they have created.

He has also expressed the desire to have joined the SS and killed Jews, considering that to be an honorable thing. He's stated this in a blog post... ie, after his release from prison.

You want to make the case that that's okay and just "remembering his heritage"? You don't have to.

Again, not familiar with everything the guy has written or did. The game is either a good system or it's not. If I started being so selective in my entertainment and the full access to the background of every single person associated with that product, I'd probably not be able to read, watch or play anything.

I'll be getting "The Coming" in the mail today and I expect to have a test run of the rules and setting, sometime this weekend.

When I make a purchase, one of the things I do consider is who I'm giving my money to. Sometimes it sways my decision, sometimes it doesn't. Since it's my money, I'm allowed to do that. Just like it's your money, and you're allowed to spend it how you like.

I am curious about the game and want to read it at some point, but I have no interest in giving Mr. Vikernes any of my money to do so. I enjoy a good Nordic setting and even play several other games, both historical and fantastical, that have Nordic elements.

I agree and often do the same. There are some people that I chose not to put my money towards their products. That is a basic freedom of speech issue, that I fully support and respect.

I've since your original post looked into some of Varg Vikernes' statements and history, albeit it being Wikipedia and other internet based postings. He certainly has some issue with attaching a defining terminology to his beliefs, and a one point he does claim to be a "racist" but his definition is not the typical definition of the term.

I go back to the argument, you can express pride in just about anything but if you express pride in being white, that is "racist". I don't buy into that, just as I don't buy into ridiculing persons that lived a century or so ago for not having the same social sensibilities that I may hold today.

Sure some of the writing (stories) of Robert E Howard, H.P. Lovecraft or J.R.R. Tolkein are racially insensitive in our modern view, but that does not take away from their storytelling or the characters or Mythos that they have created.

I find it's best to keep politics out of MYFAROG threads, otherwise nobody will talk about MYFAROG. It's irrelevant to game design or your gaming group having fun.

I own the first edition that came in the big hardcover but sadly haven't gotten to play. None of my friends are interested in playing a low magic game where hunting and gathering is a part of the fantasy. If I got the opportunity to play I would absolutely buy the latest edition: fewer rules are better than more rules, after all.

I agree, I bought the game because it had positive reviews for its newest version and I have a general interest in Roleplaying game systems. The setting is also of high interest for me, I'm interested in Vikings, Nordic Paganism, Norse Mythology, etc.

I also more of a fan of low fantasy vs. high fantasy, such as Conan the Barbarian based games (both PC and TT RPG), Life is Feudal (PC), Lord of the Rings, etc.

As for your liking a bit more magic, Lord Wimpy, I'm expecting the magic supplement on Friday. But, if it does not have as much as I'm looking for, I'd certainly look to add some.

I like the idea of incorporating Druidic, shamanistic or other natural / ritualistic forms of magic. I also like "magic" similar to the described in the writings of Robert E Howard and HP Lovecraft.

@IronTruth

First, I see some truth (no pun intended) in the quotes you provided. The first is essentially an indictment of political correctness and multi culturalism, which I think it's pretty obvious they are destroying Europe.

The second, if said by anyone but a white male would be taken as racial or ethnic pride and preservation.

Thirdly, the game is quite interesting and from what many familiar with the first edition, it has improved significantly. There is also further improvement or modifications that can be done, at the prompting of the developer(s) (I'm not sure if the YouTube tutorial was actually V.V. Himself) to discard any rules or details you wished to.

I found a few of the race base modifiers to be odd, such as if you were born in the warmer climates you would suffer more from all diseases. I would make that apply only to certain cold based ailments like frostbite or other conditions / diseases more prevalent in cold climates.

I'm not really picking up the overt racism from the game, but I admit I'm not familiar with his writing or his music to say yea or no on the subject. The term "racist" is thrown around far to casually and selectively for my taking a very small sampling's word for it.

But thank you for the heads up, I'll see where my player's opinions lay and if we find parts of the rules that are seriously questionable or minimally unfun, then we will change them.

I recently purchased the latest version of the MYFAROG RPG and I'm looking for several players to form a group to test out the new post apocalyptic setting.

If you have the original MYFAROG rules, I'm sure you will get by with those. The main differences, from what I understand, is that the new version streamlines the system, omitting a lot of the more tedious modifiers found in the first.

In the new campaign that my group will be running, whether in the original setting or the new setting, we will be following a few house rules or modifications of the original rules.

These house rules will be discussed on the social media sites we use as a gaming group.

If you are interested in trying out this game for the first time, you are also welcome. If you have not yet bought the rule books, they are cheap, and well made books. The rule system itself is odd in some ways, but very interesting in my opinion.

Interested persons can pm me here, and I'll direct you to several websites (forums) where we can discuss you joining our gaming group. I already have a few players looking to play.

Bluddwolf

Fallout or a Fallen Earth based PnP RPG would be great. I'd prefer a stand alone system, not a supplement for use with another system.

If post apocalyptic is really your thing, I've also seen that Myfarog 2.0 has a supplement called "The Coming" that came out last month. I've read / heard some positive reviews of that as well.

Modiphius puts out a Mutant Chronicles based RPG, using their 2d20 system. I've only recently started playing REH's Conan RPG and I've found the 2D20 system to be an excellent gaming system.

So, chapters 1-6 have been released in PDF,, 7-10 are due out in PDF soon.

Chapter 1 - Introduction - Ready in PDF
Chapter 2 - Character Lifepaths - Ready in PDF
Chapter 3 - Skills & Talents - Ready in PDF
Chapter 4 - Core Rules - Ready in PDF
Chapter 5 - Action Scenes - Ready
Chapter 6 - Equipment - Reasy
Chapter 7 - Sorcery - Line Manager Reviewing before edit
Chapter 8 - Signed off by Jeff Shanks given, with Line Manager before Edit
Chapter 9 Gamemastering, Fortune, Doom, Treasure, Renown & Carousing - With Line Manager before Edit
Chapter 10 - Encounters, Mortal Foes, Wild Beasts, Monstrous Foes, Creatures of the Outer Dark, Characters of Renown - In Edit before Layout

I have seen a number of these sprouting up and many dedicated to the "Golden Age 1980's" RPGS, but also some of the more recent but less known PNP RPGS as well.

There is a resurgence of interest in:

Star Frontiers
Twilight 2000
Conan RPG (TSR)
Top Secret

Also some not so old:

White Box
Myfarog

And finally some soon to be released:

REH's Conan RPG
John Carter RPG

I'm curious what others here are playing, looking to play or might be interested in playing.

Human beings thrive when their decisions are proven correct. You abandoned the game in disgust, as is your right, and now you have a degree of personal investment in its failure, since that will justify your decision.

I disagree with that assessment of my motives. I gain nothing from its failure, my only gain is from someone actually producing the game in a state I believe will be fun to play and viable in the long term.

The reason I sold my account was simply to offset a purchase I made for another game and the fact that an opportunity to make back my entire investment was appealing.

The only failure that I consider was a vindication was that of Ryan Dancey, who personally attacked me for my opinions and ultimately I was proven correct over his.

If we had only gotten the game that was described in the Dev Blog on this forum, what a world of difference PFO would have been. Cynically, I look back at those Dev Blog entries as a near perfect sales pitch. They did not only promise much innovation, they had also made it seem like their development team could pull it off, just not with Ryan at the helm.

If it were an established company, it would have a name. I recall in one of Lisa's posts that she claimed they had game development experience, and did they gain this experience under a pseudonym?

Could it be that if the name of the company was revealed, it would not inspire confidence? Or worse, would it elicit the response of "Who?"

It has been 7 months since the initial announcement that a new investor was being spoken to. What is not constructive in my opinion is the lingering perception that there is no deal, and they are just running out the clock.

I guess we will see where things are at in 5 months as I project that is when the longest term KS accounts will have to decide to resub or not.

KarlBob wrote:

Is NewCorp the actual name of a company, or just an anonymous designation for "the un-named company that has been in discussions with GW for quite some time now"?

The latter.

That tells me there is a lack of confidence in the deal and or in the project, so the new party can avoid embarrassment if it does collapse.

It could also mean that this new company has absolutely no experience in making an MMO, in marketing an MMO or in properly funding one and likely all of the above is true.

It has been admitted to that this new company is also seeking third party funding, which means they are not even self supporting themselves.

By January 2017, the last of the original maximum time Kickstarter accounts will end, then they will have to rely on new money and players coming in to sustain the game.

Character Generation chapter released:

Chapter 2: Character Generation

Quite a few I remember fondly:

Villains and Vigilantes
Bushido
Swordbearer
Twilight 2000
Star Frontiers
Boot Hill
Conan RPG

You can actually get many of these in PDF, some even for free. Although they may be outdated in their systems, it might still be useful to read about these systems because most of what I listed were the best of their genre.

I thought the 550 was a fair amount for a DT account that also had 10 months of paid time still available, and was an account with settlemeng leasdership attached to it as well.

I sold it for $400 out of respect to Kenton Stone, and the very quick transaction. I felt I was at least walking away with every penny I put into the game, minus the transaction fee from PayPal. Bottom line, my entire gaming experience with PFO cost me $12 and included almost two years of play time.

The quick sale also deflected the wife aggro because that very night my Kickstarter cost of $580 hit for Conan RPG, and I was able to say... It was only $180. Yeah, my no questions asked limit is about $500, above that and it's a problem unless it's car tires or a new gun.

I'm also glad to have had the opportunity to step away from the game when I did. Even if the game lasts for a while longer, I don't see it comparing well to newer games on the horizon. PFO needs a complete reboot, including a different game engine and a complete wipe. No investor(s) in their right minds would touch this game otherwise.

"Shards of Ymir" v. 1.2

I have made a few revisions, but these are the last until the full rule set is available in June / July.

I have written my first adventure using the Quickstart Rules v. 3.5 and piecing together several other resources. It is available here, for free, and is formatted for Microsoft Word 2013.

"Shards of Ymir" an Adventure for Conan RPG 2D20 system

Bluddwolf wrote:

Bringslite wrote:

Has there ever been a company that had the time and money to develop an MMORPG product with both really great non theme park PVE and also balanced and fun PVP?

In all of my experience with MMOs I have only come across two games that I felt came close to getting both PVE and PVP in a decent balance and both were fun. Star Wars Galaxies and Fallen Earth.

didn't play Fallen Earth but played MANY others

SWG is the only one that came close

I would still be playing it on the live servers but Sony borked up

Fallen Earth is still around, although small population (but not as small as PFO), and is free (to buy and play) through Steam. You should give it a try, especially if you like Crafting. FE was recognized for having the 5th best crafting system of all time in an MMO.

Has there ever been a company that had the time and money to develop an MMORPG product with both really great non theme park PVE and also balanced and fun PVP?

The answer to this is "No", but there have been a few that came close.

I think part of your problem is in the use of the qualifier and adjective "Really Great". Not only do they fall subject to the "Eye of the Beholder" but even if we accept that it is possible for just one element of a game to be "Really Great", it is virtually impossible for any developer to get multiple aspects of the game to be so.

Non Theme Park PVE is almost always represented by grinding. How could repetitive, risk free, and storyless activities be considered "Really Great"?

On the PVP side, again we have to look at the terms "Balanced" and "Fun". Again, they are very subjective. A developer has in my opinion just one responsibility in developing their game to be "balanced", and that is where they have pre set classes. Classes should be balanced, so as to not favor one class over the other or to avoid the never ending cycle of trying to repair unbalanced classes, and usually creating the problem of FOTM classes.

In all of my experience with MMOs I have only come across two games that I felt came close to getting both PVE and PVP in a decent balance and both were fun. Star Wars Galaxies and Fallen Earth.

Yeah, it feels more of a indictment than endorsement.

Based on my experience with him, I'd have to agree on the indictment feel.

Although I'm not familiar with the game, it leaving the hands of Alderic's new Director (Ryan Dancey) is a probable plus for its future.

P.H. Dungeon wrote:

The game does use kind of a zone type system to track location and movement, so I think it lends itself fairly well to theater of the mind type combat- at least just as well or better than say 5e D&D. Plus since it's low magic there won't be a lot spells flying around that you need to worry about tracking locations of.

The 2d20 system looks interesting, but I haven't had a chance to actually play it yet. I like that it is not a class/level based game system. I think that a more open skill/talent based character creation system works better for the setting than something like pathfinder. It looks like characters start off fairly competent and improve gradually over time. IMO this fits the Conan setting a lot better than the a game based on D&D (like the Mongoose version) where you go from zero to super hero.

Personal preferences I guess. I've played with the Mutant Chronicles a little bit, and I find the zone thing makes playing without maps harder, because players want to know exactly which zones they're in, and you have to work out how long it takes them to get from zone to zone. I find you need a much better defined map layout.

Savage Worlds I just say if they're at short, medium or long range, tell them if there's any cover, and for area of effect weapons/powers I roll a die to see how many people they hit depending on if the AoE is small, medium or large. I play fairly free-form so this works far better for my groups.

Well, most of the Kickstarter pledges included maps (PDFS) and some with the option to get print copies.

Also, the game is being supported by RollD20 Virtual Table Top, and you will be able to download the maps

You can get all three needed books for Dead Lands as a bundle from Amazon for less than $50.

Includes: Marshal's Guide, Player's Guide,, and Savage World's Rules Guide

I'm nostalgic for Boot Hill.... Boot Hill RPG PDF.

I'm not sure this is the best, but it's the only one I can think of.

Robert E. Howard's Conan RPG Quickstart

You can download for free from this link. I've never played by those rules before myself but at least two systems or mentions I find intriguing.

First is the Doom system. Simply put, it takes the slower pace of the player's decision making process and it adds to the GM's pool of actions to "encourage" the players to move the play along. This is kind of like playing chess with the timer, which revs up the action.

The second, is more of a mention, that there is a system (or potentially one) for PvP. This is known as "Struggles" which is explained on pg. 15. Although not specifically combat based, these could be interwoven within combat (competing in accomplishing various physical feats) that will add to the victor's momentum, which would then be usable in the actual combat contest between two or more characters.

Example: Two characters are running across the room towards a sword in the stone. Both have to roll a Simple action roll, to see who gets there first. Then they can roll a Strength or other appropriate roll to struggle to wrench the sword free. Because the winner of both struggles will have gained 2 x additional Momentum, he then can use those to gain a combat advantage or two in the actual fight.

It is not to say that there was no PVP in other PnP TT RPGs, but it was typically not encouraged. This new RPG is trying to remain as true as possible to Robert E. Howard's original Conan stories and setting. Betrayal by or of party members happened quite frequently, usually by Conan himself (yes, he was the epitome of Chaotic Neutral).

What do we know about mechanics for this game? A quick look at the kickstarter didn't seem to say much.

Is it a d20 thing?

It is actually a 2D20 system, the same that the Mutant Chronicles RPG by Modiphius uses. They have mentioned putting out a conversion for the previous Conan RPG by Mongoose to the 2D20 system as well, but I'm not sure when that PDF will be released.

There is a free Quick Start PDF where you can read and even test out the new system.

In about two weeks the Pledge Manager will be set up and the PDFs will be available to those of us that participated in the Kickstarter.

I figure a week after that and we should start seeing adventures run on the RollD20 VT servers.

The speed with which these accounts sell is impressive. Either there are still MANY hopeful players, speculators, or a goodly number of high end disposable income MMO players that have faith in the future and the game's potential. 5 more great accounts just sold very fast without having to list out the details or reach out on many platforms to get noticed.

I find it encouraging.

Mine sold so quickly out of fear! I sold it cheaply (without profit) out of friendship and respect for Kenton Stone, so he would not to lose all of which he had built in Aragon.

I was only willing to sell at this time because I had to cushion the blow of the wife aggro I was about to receive for dropping nearly $600 on Robert E. Howard's Conan RPG Kickstarter.

When she saw the nearly $600 deduction from account she was like "WTF did you just buy!" I told her "Don't worry it's handled and will be offset by $400 coming back".

I'm grateful to Kenton's friend for depositing the funds in my Paypal account that very hour!

Aggro evaded, and I live to play another day!!

Still, I hope someone from NewCorp will take a hard look at all those Blogs and can breathe new life into them. I feel that PFO only scratched the surface of what was explained in the blogs, and I am still hoping that most of it materializes.

I am curious what NewCorp will do with the "funnel of suck" that was supposed to curb griefing and a toxic game environment. :)

If they're smart, they'll dicard the "funnel of suck" idea because that is what helped create the funnel of suck that PFO was and in most aspects, still is.

I'm hopeful that a valuable lesson has been learned when it comes to developing a SANDBOX MMO with PvP at its core.

I don't believe Ryan ever understood the analogy of my arguement when I tried to explain, he was trying to create a nascar event, but was also handing out speeding tickets. It is not fun to watch a race at 40mph on a simple oval track. It is even less fun to be a driver in that event.

Robert E Howard's Conan RPG

Conan Exiles

Age of Conan Unchained

REH's Conan RPG is a new (still in Kickstarter if you purchase through PayPal) PnP RPG, that will also be supported on RollD20.

It is developed by Modiphius, but they have been smart enough to cross promote with Funcom. Funcom already has Age of Conan MMO and is developing a new Open World Survival MMO called Conan Exiles.

Funcom is giving kickstarters of Conan RPG a package on in-game gear for AOC. They will probably do the same for Conan Exiles. Modiphius is creating source books for both AoC and CE.

Both companies have independent contracts with the owner of Robert E Howard's Properties, and so they are working together with the blessings of the IP holder.

I am currently playing Age of Conan, will start a group for Conan RPG and in the summer, I will buy into the beta of Conan Exiles. One IP, multi platform and an IP I've been a fan of for over 35 years. Winning!!

I sold mine pretty quick.

I sold mine within 30 minutes, but I only asked for exactly what I put into it. I forgot that Paypal charges a transfer fee, that was just $12.00

All in all, I played PFO from Alpha 6 up until about 4 months ago and it only cost me $12.00.

There's no direct public evidence, that he was fired. However, they said he'd be staying interested and involved after stepping back for personal reasons, yet he has not said a thing about the game since or communicated with the player-base.

In recent posts on social media, Ryan still advertises himself as the CEO of GoblinWorks.

The prospect that he is still involved or could return should give or may be giving any new investors pause.

People forget those so called "personal reasons" did not prevent him from sitting on a panel at the time that it was announced he was leaving.

I think he may just be serving a "time out" and told to lurk well behind the scenes so that the game has some chance of recovering the public relations debacle he had created.

He basically dared MMORPG to treat the game as if it was feature and content ready, and when their review was that is was 4.0 Craptastic, he whined that the game could not get a legitimate review unless it was judged on its potential.

"I'm marketing a race car, with a lawn mower engine in it now, but we will someday upgrade it to a Vespa engine".

So to answer the impossible question of the OP.... The answer is "No" the general direction was flawed as soon as it left the blog posts and began to be developed.

The last time the game was actually fun to play was in Alpha 6, which was also the last time it had a decent population to support the game as an MMO.

Now that I have divested myself from the game, I looked back at some of my earliest posts going back over 3 years ago.

Germaine to this discussion, all I can say is.... Damn if they only made the game they described in the blog posts!

The early ideas of the flagging system, were what really sold me on the game. Unfortunately, they never really got the PvP system right, it was never open enough and just far too limiting and without risk or reward.

The account is sold.... Good luck to its new owner and good luck to those sticking it out with this game.

Well, it is about time for me to move on… Looking to sell my Main/ DT account:

Reward Quantity
New Player Pack 0
Destinys Twin 0 (1 = DT already created).
Daily Deals 1
Early Enrollment 1
Memorial of Honor 2
Soundtrack Download 1
1 Month game time 10
Alliance Pack 1
Regional Trait Pack 2
Shield Mate 1
Test Server Access 1
Class Pack 0
Head Start 1
Ticket: Buddy Trial 20
Behind the Scenes PDF 1
Character Name Reservation 1
Twice-Marked of Pharasma 2
Test Server Access 1

Two Characters, both Day 1 (Main and DT), and a 3rd untrained min. XP alt.

Tyv Blodvaerd (Rogue 12 / Fighter 10 / Cleric 4): Unspent XP = 408,540

Qiang Tian Zsu (Fighter 10 / Cleric 6): Unspent XP = 535,758

My asking price is $550, considering it still has 10 months of prepaid game time, but I'm willing to accept nearest best offer.

Note: Both characters are Leaders of settlement of Aragon, so I would likely inform Kenton Stone before any transaction is finalized.

Nihimon wrote:

Bringslite wrote:

I feel like the Funnel of Suck was destroyed with the implementation of "Universal Support to 20".

Me too.

Heck, even *I* agree with that one.

They did that in an effort to stop bleeding subscriptions. The idea of tying players to a specific location (ie settlement) was never a good idea.

Settlements are locations and not social structures, it runs counter to the gaming community, and I tried to explain that to Ryan but he was too daft to get it.

The Reputation system was going to fail to deter abusers, once their training time exceeded the time it took to recover reputation. Again, I tried to explain that, but it fell on deaf and foolish ears.

Meanwhile in other MMOs that went the opposite direction, were outperforming PFO in almost every aspect. They went sandbox, but also did not look to limit PVP, but rather expand it to a wider audience. In one case, even a dev openly ridiculed a gamer who asked for limitations and basically said "this isn't the game for care bears". That game boasted 40 times the population of PFO in its Summer Alpha.

The funnel of suck was too effective and found in too many aspects of the game.

Just way too many problems with the game, that started with its marketing and continued all the way through to its implementation. Nearly complete failure in its vision, which never appealed to enough people to ever produce a viable product.

If they truly shot for EvE with Swords, it would have had a better chance. But thebgane engine would still have been a major stumbling block. Monetization was also a major mistake, and the play of words as to the stage of the game led to the terrible reviews that the game received.

All of these decisions became the real "funnel of suck".

Hopefully Paizo will be smart enough to undo some of the damage, by first declaring the game is in an Early Stage of Alpha. They should suspend the subscription fee, until major changes have been reached, including and most importantly a whole new game engine. The current engine has no future, it is obsolete and can not compete with games made since 2009.

Is it essentially dead or what? I read an article about the devs firing all but three of their staff and if that isnt a death knell for a game I dont know what is.

What the hell happened O.o

Well, you seem to have already drawn your own conclusion. ... Move on, nothing to see here....

Avena, dude, man, just say WoW clone, much clearer and everyone already knows that term. ;)

If it were a WOW clone, or a clone of just about anything else, it would have been more successful.

I wish Lee Hammock was able to just re-skin Fallen Earth, basically bringing most of its mechanics over.

* Crafting (rated 5th best of all time)
* Factions (PVP, Faction Based Skills, Faction Based Gear).
* Combat (melee, ranged and mounted)
* PVP (Voluntary Flagging, Zone Flagging, Faction Based)
* Gathering (Zone based)
* Not completely tab targeting, you still had to keep the target in
the target zone.
* Hit location for more damage and better protection.
* Full Loot

The graphics would have been about the same, circa 2009.

Duffy wrote:

I'm not sure why you highlighted that aspect or how you think it would be the candidate to draw in players that aren't super fond of PvP.

It makes Social PvP more meaningful. The players who are able to articulate a position that gets a significant faction of the server supporting them will have an actual advantage in-game, rather than the advantage always going to the most bloodthirsty / least scrupulous, as seems inevitably the case in most PvP sandboxes where the only thing that limits a player's ability to continue the attack unhindered is their own determination.

Those that left the game because of PvP, would have left even if their attackers were weak and naked, but relentless. They still would have been forced to PvP, any time and any where. There were players who quit, because they heard rumors of other players getting jumped.

Trying to make PvP palatable to strongly PvP adverse players is like trying to convince some one on welfare to vote Republican. Their interest is just not there.

You used to get so upset when I said "This game is not for everyone" and I directed it to a PvP adverse person. There was no way to convince them, and wasting time trying to do so may have slowed advertising efforts on the part of goblin works.

I have never, in any industry, seen such a poorly marketed product. Not just in its target audiance, but also just in the lack of overall advertising.

TL;DR: Anyone thinking of selling a DT to Bludd, I'll happily pay you ten dollars more than he's offering.

Bluddwolf wrote:

I wouldn't pay 5 cents for an account before the end of September, because there has been nothing to indicate that servers WILL be up in October.

There's been lots to indicate it, just nothing definitive because nobody can see the future. There's nothing wrong with trying to get the best price you can on accounts, but none of us are obliged to stand by and let you pretend that DT accounts are worth less than $35

Bluddwolf wrote:

Besides, have you noticed the server pop drop off? I'm going to guess there are less than 200 unique subscribers left.

Trying to extrapolate active subscribers from who is playing is no more valid today than it was a month ago. I personally (i.e., in real life) know three people who have not played in many weeks but have continued their subscriptions and are in no hurry to cancel them. In fact, whe current state of the war between Xeilias and Phaeros probably means that trying to judge active subscribers from people logging in is less useful than it was a month ago. Many people are simply keeping their heads down.

I didn't say they wee worth less than $35.00, just not more than what they had cost if they were the $35.00 version.

Banked XP has no value if the servers are Touch-and-Go, and unless Paizo announces they have a new backer, they are Touch-and-Go.

So my offer stands at $35.00 for a DT account, and I will purchase it on or about October 1st or 2nd.

thenoisyrogue wrote:

This thread was the moment I knew pathfinder online was in trouble:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pasw&page=2?Why-this-whole-OnLine-Thing-wo rries-me#86

You really should be talking about this more, Dancey opened with this when he came into the thread:

Ryan Dancey wrote:

@All - I think it's unavoidable that some folks who love Pathfinder tabletop will see Pathfinder Online as a mistake. That's just human nature.

I'd like to emphasize we're all in this together. It's unhelpful to tell people they have bad-wrong concerns, or that they're being repetitive of things others have said, or question their knowledge or their love of the brand.

The best thing you can do is not respond.

You're not going to convince Captain Marsh, and those like him that he's wrong. Can't be done.

But you will create the impression that it's us vs. them. And that's bad for Pathfinder, Pathfinder Online, Goblinworks, and Paizo.

You help us more by saying nothing. Just let it go. These kinds of messages will appear forever. Allow it to simply pass without comment. There's no upside to engagement, and a lot of downside.

RyanD

Looks like Captain Marsh was correct and Ryan was wrong.

Bluddwolf wrote:

On October 2, if the server is still up, I will be looking to by a DT account for $35 (the kick starter cost).

So once you take into account the 2 months game time - you are offering about $5 for a DT :D

The seller would be recovering initial investment, and I would be risking the loss of $35 on a game that might close its doors at any moment.

I wouldn't pay 5 cents for an account before the end of September, because there has been nothing to indicate that servers WILL be up in October.

Besides, have you noticed the server pop drop off? I'm going to guess there are less than 200 unique subscribers left.

On October 2, if the server is still up, I will be looking to by a DT account for $35 (the kick starter cost).

Pathfinder Online is tabletop WoW?!

I'm no fan of WoW (only played it for about 6 months when it launched), but WoW is a better game in every aspect, and that includes during its first few months.

It seems overly complicated, which is one of the reasons PFO is failing as well.

The simplest forms of PvP to create, and ithey are on an opt in basis are:

1. Faction based PvP
2. Zone based PvP

The way you entice players to opt is is that you give benefits to those that opt in.

Faction based benefits could be special skills, faction weapons and armor, etc.

Zone based benefits are access to higher tier resources.

No need for complicated reputation system, feud system or even war mechanics. Because it is all on opt in basis, no complaints from those who don't ever want to PvP. For those who want to PvP, they will always have their faction enemies to fight or they can fight over the control of the PvP enabled hexes.

And to prove you aren't psychic - My "heart's desire" is to have fun playing a game. Sometimes that's improving my character, other times that's improving my PvE fighting skills or improving my PvP fighting skills, or maxing out my crafting.

Non-consensual PvP rules don't fall anywhere in my desires.

You really can't improve your PvP fighting skills when the only type of PvP your willing to accept is consensual PvP.

In 99% of all arena style PvP, there is no risk or reward and you tend to use set skills and gear as does your opponent. Sparring is not really PvP, it is practice in a controlled environment and not even good practice for PvP in an open world PvP setting.

As for the next step for this game, I'm afraid it's probably either a near complete start from scratch or just a shut down. If it's a shut down, I wouldn't expect another Pathfinder based PC game anytime in the distant future.

YOU SHOULDA LISTENED TOO LATE TO FIX THAT SHUSHI GRASS NOW

It is obvious, the poor grass was due to the lack of irrigation. The true root cause is waterless rivers.

Wizards of the Coast went the route of handling its IP license over to be used to create a cooperative multiplayer RPG, and Sword Coast Legends might actually be a ROLLD20 killer.

That would probably been a better route for Paizo / Goblin Works to have taken.