BQ's page

Huzzahhhhh! I caught up...

Since I started voting I've come across a lot of
* Undead interaction items
* Torcs
* Soups - though not so many since the cull
* Voice manipulation
* A lot of drawbacks as a counterbalance

I don't know about anyone else, but this voting has revealed some things to me:

1) Handy items trump powerful items
2) I don't like dream items, or teleportation and time based items
3) I'm a stickler to the each turn a player may make 1 full round action or 1 standard action and move action. Didn't realise how much I dislike Swift actions.
4) Don't like items that require extra GM work (found myself muttering, "Got enough on my plate" a few times)
5) Cinematic trumps mechanics for me as long as there are no major errors/flaws with the item
6) I like items in the hand that require you to wield it and interact with it
7) I have a preferred range of about 5-30k in market value. Items under that don't tend to have abilities that interest me and items above that tend to frighten me off power wise.
8) The easier it is to read the more favourable I am to the item
9) I don't care if words are mispelled or the format is a little off, as long as it's easy to pick up what the item does
10) I'm finding myself repeating what a mate used to repeatedly say back in the 3.5 days, "Some spent significant XP, gold and time to make that...why?"

I looked at the map scale and thought the 2000ft scale couldn't be right. This is supposed to be a huge city. I was just grouping the buildings and say to my guys, "So you want to check out these ones?" it will take half the day.

If you did go with the 500ft hexes I suppose two hours would work for clearing a hex. Using the scale you're getting a few buildings in each hex so maybe 2 hours isn't enough given the aim is to thoroughly search and check every room in every building. Given they would be clearing it to be safe for non-combatants a search would involve looking through every room, on every roof, down every stairs, looking for secret doors, hidden basements and interesting objects/pictures. This would be quiet time consuming to do for every building so I'm now thinking probably 4 hours.

No I didn't use them there and to be honest don't think it needs them. I would think about using them for Racing to Ruin though. If I was to run that one again I would print up the map without the pre-set trail and have the PC's decide how they want to get to Tarzion. The faction leader would advise the course that's in the book, but ultimately the players would have the deciding vote.

The map could then be "hexed" and you'd have the players clearing out a hex for the expedition to move into. I think it would give a greater sense of clearing a secure path for the expedition. From what I've read in the book 2 thread and my own experience there is a tendancy for players to shoot out as fast as they can forgetting about the expedition.

Most of the encounters in the book could easily be moved about and dropped in to where the terrain is a match or tweaked to match the terrain you want to use it in. I know for that one I added in small towns, additional travelling merchants, slavers, Mwangi hunters, a young T-rex, and a lot more encounters than what was in the book. I didn't really bother too much with random encounters instead just had some prepared ones that I slotted in where I wanted to kick things along.

I've read through the various threads and the module itself and have to admit this is one of those modules that needs needs a lot of GM tweaking to get it right. So after finishing book 3 I thought I'd share what tweaks I made, where I've gone off script and what worked and didn't with thoughts on why. I should also mention that some of my ideas came to me halfway through or towards the end of book 3. So they missed some foreshadowing, would have been better used earlier and were implemented a bit hastily. I know many have criticized this module heavily and agree there are some holes and missing content, but overall we've enjoyed it. I do however have no doubt if I was to run this one again it would be significantly better experience for all.

Alright so here's some background on our group and our playing style.

I like to put roleplay choices on my players that have both gains and consequences. I would say that of my group I’ve a got a method actor disguised as a heavy role player and a world builder that likes to connect his character to the game world and build organisations, buildings, kingdoms, etc. So for this part of the AP the history of the city is a key motivator and reward for my group. I’ve found the boards really helpful here and recommend Gms interested in this to check out: Jemmer2057’s Chart and Mysteries to discover in the General Thoughts on this AP thread and Collated Notes on Azlant and the Azlanti. Near the end of the book I started using bits of roman history to give the feeling of an ancient people that rose and fell to rise again, before being destroyed by Earthfall.

My group is primarily just 4 characters with odd cameo from a mate we’ve gamed with in the past. For most of it we had an Alchemist, Inquisitor of Desna (with 1 level of fighter), Sorcerer (Fey bloodline), and a Bard/Dragon Disciple. We've just lost the Inquisitor for a few months, but have the cameo (two weapon fighter) looking like a potential regular.

My group has formed a coalition expedition with the Pathfinder Society (PFS) and Sargavan Government (SG) and this will be an ongoing working point requiring the group to step in to resolve conflicts and hold the expedition together at times. I’m playing the PFS as single minded, impatient and ambitious in their desire to get into the city ruins as soon as possible and uncover the long lost history. The SG are the opposite and are much slower and more cautious with a long term view of ensuring that the expedition has a strong secure base camp. More of a slowly, but surely approach.

I should also mention I don't really believe in random encounter tables. I normally have some prepared encounters and put them in where I think we need a bit of action/tension and as a way of sharing information (leads & foreshadowing). My philosophy is that as the GM I control the pace and tension so I don't really use random encounter tables instead having a few opponent combinations ready to throw at the PCs. I have also gone off script and changed encounters in the book by shifting some to other areas and boosting others for a greater challenge.

Also we haven't completely covered all of book 3 so some areas my group hasn't ventured into yet.

Feel free to post questions and comments as I go along as this will take a long time to get it all up.

I basically look at the Azlanti as kind of like the romans and greeks of ancient times. My descriptions and flavouring of the city has been heavily inspired by them. Wikipedia and podcasts have been handy here in giving me some ideas. I've described statues of heroes, pillars enscribed with pictures and symbols of the gods, murials of Savith, bronze enscribing referencing famous houses/organisations, etc. Basically I've looked at what we've got left of the ancient societies of this world, how they decorated things and the legends/stories we know of them and their key figures and tried to replicate for the Azlanti.

As we've neared the end of book 3 I had the Iron Cross create a neutral trading outpost so the PCs have a different place to hear about the other factions and buy/sell bigger GP items. All expeditions can come in and trade with them and they have no interest in heading into the city. All they want is to make money off the expeditions and adventurers going into the city. I've set them with a higher limit in items and will have that grow as the story progresses and I figure more things are found/pulled out of the city. All people entering the camp must wear peace knots on their weapons and I've descibed the campsite as heavily guarded with veteran warriors and spellcasters. Entry into the camp means you abide by Iron Cross rule. No fighting or provoking others. Failure to comply means being blacklisted from all Iron Cross traders or possibly more heavier punishments such as stripping of all gear for compensation, loss of limb, or death.

I've also added some minor bits that have hooked the players and encouraged a bit more activity in the city and bonded them to it. I wanted a lost technology hook and here's what I've used thats worked well:
1) Memory Masks - bronze masks of human faces. When someone puts the mask on they gain a free feat. So far I've just used three; angry face (free weapon proficiency - long sword), stern face (free chainmail armour proficiency feat), and neutral face(free alertness feat). They have to succeed or will save DC 15 where failure leaves them unable to gain the benefit and stuck with a headache for the day. I figure by using small/minor feats it won't unbalance the game and serves as a good reward.

2) Referenced power armours. After reading Brandon Sanderson's Way of Kings I got this idea for ancient armour that functions like power armour in comics. I'm going to have this armour function a bit like Elven Chain in that it grants the wearer more than just AC and enhancement properties. My intention is to have it give the toughness feat, endure elements for the wearer, jump 3/day, strength surge ability 3/day, etc. Basically things you don't normally get as armour enhancement properties that aren't completely awesome, but by stacking a few on top of normal enhancements will make for an appealing armour. I'm thinking of using Gozreh with the armours linked to storms. Naturally the guys will come across some basic versions and then as we get into the later books some far more powerful versions.

3) Legends - I've started to build up some legends on famous individuals, heroes and organisations. I've used a bit of roman history here taking the non-Julius Ceasar and Hannibal related bits that most people aren't overly familiar with. It's really breathed some life into the city.

4) Murder mystery - this was a real hit and a good change of pace. I had some cultist of the god of secrets infiltrate the camp and start sabotaging. Small things at first, like food poisoning, getting dinosaurs stampeding through camp, structures collapsing, and then slowly working up to things like theft of an idol worshipped by the native porters/workers of the expedition to set them against the expedition leaders, and of course murdering a key researcher. My guys loved it and it was a great change of pace to go into the city of death. I'd done some foreshadowing on this with the end of book 2.

I'd recommend this thread for all your Azlanti info:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2msyd?Collated-Notes-on-Azlant-and-the-Azlanti

There is another thread where someone has put up info he/she used for the different districts. Can't recall which one it is, but I got it from these boards and its very useful.

Don't have my notes on that anymore, but I'm pretty sure I ran it like a Haunt (probably CR 3 or 4) with the destruction being to defeat the raid and protect the couple. The trigger would be entering the Captain's cabin or touching the skeleton (like removing a ring or something). Off the top of my head, I'd probably have the Hit points 10-20. Perception DC20 (to hear faint whispers and crying). And the effect would function like a programmed image.

Its a story encounter really and works best with minimal rules and I think the way you start it determines how the players approach it. I think the build up is the key and you've got to set it up with a very visual description. Start with describing the cabin and decking starting to change in appearance before their eyes . Its as though the rotting wood and rusted metals transforms to look like a brand new ship (at the end of the haunt ensure you describe a return to the shipwreck).

Have them see the wide open seas instead of the Shiv and off in the distance they see a large ship rapidly gaining ground (or should that be water?). Describe that ship as an ominous pirate ship and have a PC overhear one of the crew mutter something like, "We're done for...its Blackbeard and the Dreaded Hag..."

Then describe the classical gallant captain rallying his crew before telling a beautiful noble lady to have no fear and lock herself in his cabin. Have him talk to the PCs as though they are part of his crew and that he needs them to be in amongst the crew who draw courage from their presence. The captain moves about the crew speaking words of couragement.

Also don't use mini's for this bit. I've found that when you don't have the mini's out players tend to be less rules intense and approach the situation with a more story based mindset. If they ask for minis tell them its not needed.

Another trick is to tell them that their melee and ranged attack now use their INT or WIS instead of STR or DEX. Gets them busy calculating that they're not whinging about why they don't get a save.

Of course there are players out there that just won't let things go and will sulk if they don't get their miniatures, saves for everything, etc... For that you could have them make a Will save and if they're successful they can get a bonus to attack or take half damage (I'll leave up to you).

*Shrugs* Meh...as long as everyone's having fun who cares if the group is steamrolling the encounters. Pathfinder is all about having a bit of fun with your mates.

Azmyth are you guys going to discuss Serpent Skull as a whole one day on a segment? My group has hit book 3 and I'd like to hear about your groups experience and what Cherry did to make it work for you guys. Its definitely the most sandboxy game I've ever run and have found that reading/hearing about other groups experience has been a great help.

As for the whole ideal end point for APs I know they'll keep the current structure of 6 books per AP with end point around 15th. I think thats pretty spot as it suits most groups and is just a bit longer or shorter for the others. High level play requires the GM to shape encounters and challenges to the strengths and weaknesses of the group which is hard for an AP to do.

I guess this AP is one of the better ones having stopping points after the books as you could easily stop after books 1 and 3, and I reckon you could tweak book 4 to be a stopping point too.

For my group we've been playing since 2nd ed and have always played our characters all the way to 20th or TPK (whichever came first) and we'll continue to do that no matter where the APs finish. Theres always one last adventure for characters to take and mutter, "I'm too old for this sh1t"

I agree the math of the game gets screwy when you've got expanded options and optimised characters wielded by tactical players. Combat starts to bog down and become lethal grinders or "one-shot I wins" which makes it difficult to keep things challenging and fun. Players have a role to play here by making sure their characters aren't game breakers that kill the fun for everyone else. Its a tough gig being the GM at the high levels, but if you get the players to consider group fun when making their characters and help out with keeping combat rolling along its still fun.

Anyways, my group has hit book 3 and are having fun...what more could we want.

After reading the OP I have a few thoughts on this situation and these types of encounters:

1) I agree with one of the previous posters who said something about your GM style might not match the game that your players are looking for. For this scenario to work your PCs need to be creative thinkers that are willing to go with indirect tactics and I think there needs to be in game set up for them to know that its possible to pull off.

2) GMs need to keep in mind that your previous games set a precedent that players will make decisions with that in mind. Even previous campaigns in different game worlds will affect how players view the current world you're running. If all your encounters are a fight to death why would surrender ever be an option for them? If you don't put in negotiation challenges then why would they think this encounter was one to talk their way through. Same goes for skills and save DCs. If your DCs are always high or 50-50 shots with bad repercusions on failure then PCs are going to avoid putting themselves in situations where their lives are in the balance. PCs like assured wins/survival and if they can't get that then they'll go for the highest odds possible of survival. Low % success is typically avoided like the plague unless its something with zero to minor consequences. Looking at your later post about the characters I'm not sure your PCs would have felt they had the right skills to pull it off. I'd have slipped a rogue NPC with them who offers to hide a blade on each one and surrender with them to break them out. Sometimes you just gotta hold your PCs by the hand...

3) PCs never surrender or let themselves be captured alive in my experience. They always go down swinging. If PC surrender was your intention for this encounter you need to set it up with some in game info about the villain ransoming off prisoners. Set up so that the PCs know that this guy isn't a murderer he's a hostage taker looking for the most profitable ransom. He never hurts the hostage unless pushed into it and always true to his word. Because players tend to drop in IQ when they pick up their dice (I am guilty of this) you'd need to spell it out to them several times before doing an encounter like this. In fact smack it over the back of their heads with it as thats what it normally takes for me when I'm a player. You had in your second post that the villain is known for deals, but how well is it known to the PCs. Have they made a deal with him before?

4) Consider your PCs capabilities and your players' style for handling encounters, obstacles and challenges. If your PCs approach all opponents head on with their biggest and loudest punch then they are never going to negotiate or accept being exchanged. If your PCs didn't have the escape type abilities (escape artist, stealth, invisibility, etc) then they're not going to attempt it either.

Ultimately I think this is a case where the GM sees the encounter from a story point knowing the PCs won't be killed and will have an opportunity to escape whereas the PCs see assured death if they surrender.

I probably would have left the kids as the kids on the bridge and have the PCs deal with the consequences. It could have been a key moment for your players and changed their play style to look for alternatives to the "get in first attack" mind set. Personally I like to put choices on my players. Part of being a hero is making the tough choice so I think by turning the kids into illusions you've taken that away and potentially set a precedent that they won't see future prisoners as more than just an inconvienance.

Consequences could have been lose of reputation and the PCs having to do in game things to build it back up. You could have some mechanical affects here with negatives to interactions with locals and people of the region as word spreads. Maybe they're brought to trial or the Paladin must atone.

Given you've changed the kids to illusions I wouldn't have any consequences. At most I'd have maybe a spirit of a legendary long dead paladin approach the Paladin saying he's been watching him for sometime. He'd say that he's there to offer guidance and that the Paladin caught a break there and questions the paladin on what if the kids weren't illusions and were actually kids. The spirit could tell the Paladin that he made an oath to be held to higher code and he could have failed irrepairably. Throw in something like its a toughline to walk, but if you're gunna do it then do it all the way.

And finally theres nothing wrong with saying to your guys, "okay just stop for a moment and think things through a bit. You're not considering all your capabilities and possible ways to approach this."

Oh yeah and as for your Changling assassin I have to laugh...had similiar stuff myself...sometimes you just can't help players. I think players need to be trained/taught as I know when I started (que old voice) way back in 2nd ed we just thought about gear and damage spells until we had a couple of older and more experienced players join us who spent their hard earned loot on strongholds, guilds, etc. They also used stealth and other tactics to our usual kick in the door and kill stuff. Its one of the great things with convention play is that you get to see other play styles and tactics. Might be worth bringing in some experienced players who have a different style to your current group to hopefully rub off on them. Or at least show them there is a different way to doing things.

I like a lot of the ideas already put forward here.

* Themed gear sets - kind of computer game cheesy, but it adds to a collectors sense of accomplishment. I think it would be particularly good if the theme gear was based on bloodlines or faith based (eg get extra ability or bonuses if wearer/wielder/user has a certain bloodline or domain)

* Pre set starting gear packages - cuts down workload for GMs

* Pre set treasure hoards - oh god yes. This is really needed.

* Seige Weapons and stronghold building. My players are world builders and lap this sort of stuff up.

* Action economy mundane gear - potion belts, wand holsters, etc

* Medicines - either allows another save or gives bonus to save versus certain conditions. You could even have crafting rules to make them giving more bang for buck when investing ranks in craft skills.

I like the idea of weapons developing along with PCs as long as the PC is invested resources into it. I disagree that its a demotivator as my guys have never had their characters motivated to find the next uber sword when thinking about what they want to do next.

Its a shame SKR has said there will be no new rules system as I'd really like an alternate wealth and item value system to the current one. The RPG economy from all versions of D&D and Pathfinder is just so off kilter. You've got PCs running around with ridiculous amounts of wealth and the potential to just destroy a local economy they come across. I know a lot of the old system is tied to tradition in that a dragon's hoard should be filled with mighty wealth and so we need even minor magic items costing the equivalent of a house to drain the money from the PCs, but its just crazy to me that PCs can be running around with such wealth. I think it could surely be scaled back and more balanced to be in line with the good old common folk.

I think starting out as a zero level commoner is something that should be unique for a particular AP rather than the standard kick off. It would get old pretty fast.

I don't think the APs need an intro adventure to bind the PCs as its really up to the players (with a bit of GM help) to ensure the group has met each other. Thats all part of the backstory stuff and player prep for a campaign.

I'd like to see some non-combat based challenges in the APs. Diplomatic/Talk based encounters and even skill based challenges.

Cheers mate. I'll be using some of that.

My group has a coalition expedition (Sagarvan Govt and Pathfinder Society). I'm thinking that given the Red Mantis primary interest is the temple that they can be a potential ally with some diplomatic effort.

What I'm thinking of doing is using the big map from the Map Folio and putting it out in the open for my PCs to plan which areas they want to target. I'm thinking that given the Sagarvan Gov have a military leader, the Colonel will mark out areas (which will freakishly match up to the districts). He believes that for the expedition to claim the city it will need to control these areas. I'll then leave it up to my PCs to decide where they want to target, but the Colonel will say he thinks a better defensible position would be somewhere in the city to get the PCs to focus on one area.

For the other factions I figure the Mantis would focus on the Temple District. I'll set a time that the PCs will have before the Mantis control the temple and then another set time for when the Mantis have expanded their control out to the entire district. This will push out the current occupants who will spill into other areas.

The Aspis could go anywhere, but I think they would focus on the Mercantile and Government districts. I'll set a time that the PCs have before they form an agreement/pact with the group controlling Merchant District and another time for them to push into the Government district which will force the current occupiers into other areas. I'm thinking of having the Aspis supplying the side they've got a pact with or having the forces of that side with Aspis spellcasters and archers.

The Pirates could go anywhere too, but I think their greed would pull them to the mercantile district. They may also be interested in the Military district looking for powerful magic weapons. They'll push into one and diplomatic their way into another. Timelines for this too. I'm tempted to have the Pirates creating a bit of chaos by setting things on fire, explodings things and so on.

For secretative groups you've got a few options:
1) Word gets out about survivors from Smugglers Shiv. They're approached by someone, who may/may not be linked to a faction, that believes the island may have an ancient Azlanti outpost. Their discussion/approach is overheard by someone else that leaks it to another faction. And maybe there are spies in these factions to let another one in on the info.

2) One of the NPCs found something that he/she sells off to a historian who identifies it as Azlanti. Think of archeology and the sort of stuff they find and identify as being linked to a particular ancient culture. That gets to a faction who sends a group to check out the Shiv and comes across the temple.

3) NPCs ask the PCs what happened when they get back to camp. Have the NPC's chatting to the PCs about what they're coming across. That way they have the information and can be a leak or open link to the factions. NPCs may even offer up their faction and the benefits.

4) After the PCs deal with the temple maybe theres a small earthquake or something which reveals part of the temple to people travelling by sea. You could even do it while they're in the temple to add to the urgency. Word could get out about the wild and unnatural looking lightening storm atop of Red Mountain, which would catch the interest of adventurers and obviously the Pathfinders.

5) Its called Smuggler's Shiv so smugglers must use it. There may be caves around the Red Mountain that smugglers have been using when they come across the temple. They check it out and come back to Eleder claiming the discovery. This should really irritate your players, particularly if they're being celebrated for it when the PCs were first. Could add to the race aspect.

6) The Govt. hears about the PCs escape from the Shiv and approach them to learn about their experience. The Govt. is interested in setting up an outpost to function as a warning beacon for Eledar. You could roleplay it out and see if you can catch the players letting slip info regarding the outpost.

7) To locate Tazion the group still needs to research. They'd be getting books and maps, speaking to local experts and so on. This is likely to attract attention to that the group has something big.

8) This is the fun one. Word gets out about the PCs surviving the Shiv. Have one of the faction members approach one PC on their own to learn about their experience. Bribe the PC by offer up gold to entice them. You can have the PC make Bluff checks to conceal that they came across something major. I'd say the Pirates and Aspis Consortium are most likely to do this.

You may need to explain to your players the reasons for why they'll need an expedition. I did it and it ended the "why do we need them". You can even explain to them that explorers have been known to be bumped off by larger groups. I think you need to explain the whole Trailblazing role anyways so why not explain why the need an expedition rather than just going solo.

I used the NPCs as an information source on the factions. Each NPC gave a positive spin (their faction), negative spin (rival faction) and a general info (neutral faction). Tried to keep it as much of an open and unbiased decision as I could.

My group has really enjoyed it so far, but we're only up to book 2 (right at the end). Book 1 needed some miner tweaks and probably underplayed the shipwreck crawl/survivor element, but thats fine. It was a good bit of room for GM creativity.

I've enjoyed GMing book 2, but I must admit that I've needed the forums to help me out. There are some pretty big gaps that needed to be fleshed out more. The negotiations is underdone with information on the factions and the trailblazing role isn't fully explained. Groups naturally want to shoot off like a sprinter, but can't/shouldn't as they'd be breaking away from the expedition too much and thus defeat the point of being trailblazers which is to clear the path.

I also think book 2 really missed an opportunity to add some "talky" challenges. As it currently is you don't really need the guide at all and I think having some diplomatic challenges would have improved book 2. Random merchants, native tribes, colonial explorers, etc. can have been encounters and would have the whole "we need to get the guide" relevant.

Must admit that I wonder if book 2 should be about the group researching in Eledar with book 3 being setting out for the expedition. Theres a big write up on Eledar and you barely use it as the group is out getting the guide and then off on the race. In saying all this though, my group is having fun and so am I - its just taken a bit of GM work to make it work for us (which is pretty normal).

Patrick, my group is about to wrap up book 2, and I'm looking at book 3 and thinking what I can do to "jazz it up". What changes would you make if you had the time?

I'm thinking of making it a contested ground and treating it as having capture points that the PCs need to win, control and hold. I'm thinking of having the expedition camps eventually move into the city by forming alliances with the groups controlling the spears. Based on your experience would this work?

After having a read I think book 3 is really just a level boost to get the PCs ready for book 4. So I'm also looking at dropping in The Harrowing by Crystal Frasier, which seems an easy drop in.

I think you're really missing an opportunity for your good aligned PCs to make a positive difference in the game world. The PCs can impose some terms on the factions for positive social change. You might need to spell it out to your players and remind them that they can't impose massive change, but they could set change in motion that leads to what they want - eg: end of slavery and equality for all.

For a group with an idealistic-bent I'd tweak the factions or at least make the negotiations a key part of the game. Let the group know that its a bidding war and they have a chance to do something more than just line their pockets. They can make counter offers and put forward their own terms and demands to the factions. The factions can respond with another offer and eventually they come to a mid point that both can accept.

For example:
The Sargavan government's primary interest in the city is to get the wealth they need to pull their country out from its security dependancy on the pirates. They want a large navy, which takes years to build and train. The potential wealth of Savinth-yhi would enable them to keep their security agreement with the pirates going for a couple of years while building the navy. In the negotiations they are willing to:
* End slavery once they've built at least two hundred ships which is expected to take two years.
* Creation of education programs for the natives so they are capable of working in offical positions
* Good pieces of land in safe areas for the natives to own and work. Some of it could be around the city as the government develops it.
* Involvement of the Freeman Brotherhood in the growth and development of Savinth-yhi and the region with natives being given fair oppirtunity to become land owners and merchants.
* Non-negotiables would be significant (probably majority) of cities wealth, military gear (eg: mass warfare magical items such as enchanted seige weapons) and any artifacts that could cause civil unrest

PCs could make gather information checks to learn that key influential figures in the government detest slavery, but are unable to end it because its the biggest wealth generator and they need it to pay the pirates. They could also learn who these key figures are get them as part of the expedition party to settle and occupy the city.

Red Mantis primary interest is the temple and the potential sacred artifacts inside. They'd be unwilling to let anyone have that, but the rest would be negotiable. Naturally they'd want some land and wealth, but its minor interest and tradable. I would think they would be willing to accept the following terms:
* 50% of the surrounding land to go the natives to work and own as they see fit. PCs may even be able to negotiate that the city belong to the natives (except the temple) with the Red Mantis providing intelligence and training to ensure the city is safe from the government
* 25-50% of the wealth found to go to the natives or be distributed as the PCs see fit to the surround tribes and/or Freeman Brotherhood.
* They would likely try to have the entire temple district left to them, but the PCs should be able to negotiate with them to ease off here. They would however be unmovable on the temple to their god being in their position only. With negotiation PCs could get them to allow historical experts to enter under the strict supervision of the Red Mantis and on their terms (some areas off limits).
* Non-negotiable would be that they control the temple and get all its contents, plus an artifacts and magical items relating to their god in the city.

Aspis Consortium's primary interest is wealth so they would want a major cut of the wealth as well as the trade routes and best resource generating land. They could offer to provide jobs, land, education and training for the natives to enable them to rise above the oppression. They'll want to make the city a trading outpose as quick as possible and will need a population to build it and work it. They're really flexible as whether the people working the city are slaves or paid workers they would get rich out of getting the city up and running quickly.

Its okay to have some factions as clear villains for your PCs and I think thats why they all have a bit of an unsavoury flavour to them. Have the Aspis and Pirates promise greater levels of wealth to tempt your good guys. It will be good for the role play and give the players a chance to show that their characters are genuine good guys.

Hope it helps mate.

In the lead up to the faction negotiations I would try to think of how the PCs would react to the factions and the reasons why the PCs won't choose them. Think of how the factions would make their pitches to appeal to the individual PCs because they really want the PCs to pick them.

I found that the book lacked detail in how the factions would contribute to the expedition so I had a flick through book 3 and read up on how the factions contributed. I also used the NPCs from the island to give their opinion on the factions.

We have our own forums so a lot of this is put up on a forums before sitting at the table to play, but here's one bit that I'd put up:

Aspis Consortium

Ishirou: "The Aspis Consortium is a trade organisation with interests in many parts of the region. Many will speak ill of them and say that the Aspis are willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish their goals, but like any large organisation they are a diverse group and not all its members are ruthless in their pursuit of ambitions. You can pick their members by the emblem badge that has a golden snake on a shield. The metal of the shield tells you their rank with bronze being a base level member, silver a full member and gold the mark of regional leaders. I can make contact with them to organise a meeting if you like. If you were to forge a deal with them you would be well supported as they always succeed and are well resourced to ensure such an endeavour as yours will succeed."

Gelik: "Unlike many other trade groups the Aspis Consortium has greater reach and the willingness to ruthless use that reach. I advise caution in dealing with. Take time considering whatever they offer you as its always double edged. They will no doubt offer you the best support, but they'll be demanding and push you to make great haste to get achieve their aims."

Jask: "I'm told that Dargan Etters is the local leader in Eledar. I'm pretty sure I've dealt with him in the past at the Bloodcove. From memory at the time he was a young charismatic merchant rising up through the ranks. He was full of ambition that bordered on arrogance as he relentless worked built his prestige amongst his colleagues and forced his way up the ranks. I have no doubt that he will be interested in Saventh-Yhi and once he hears of it will seek you out. And he'll find out as the Aspis have many eyes and ears that would impress a spymaster. One last thing, before you make any agreements with him check it thoroughly for any grey areas. From memory he likes to exploit and twist interpretations."

After watching a Deadliest Warrior episode where the guy representing the spartans demonstrated the lethality of a shield blow I've wanted to make a shield wielding warrior. But never did it cross my mind to go with two shields...

I'm with James on this. Its silly and so is the direflail. I'll give people the double sword, but only because of Star Wars and thats as far as I'm willing to go. There is a fantasy element to the weapon stats in all versions of D&D/Pathfinder and I think they've been more game based and have kept to the original created lists than attempted to reflect the true lethality and utility of the weapons. Back in a 3.5 game one of the player's commented that there never was an army of spiked chain wielders dominating a region in history and yet it was one of the best weapons in 3.5 D&D. But thats okay as most groups I've found make their choices for weapons on what suits their character and of course what magical item of awesomeness that they just happened to pick up.

Just because you're evil doesn't mean you don't see the value in team work, trust and group cohesion. Your character would see the value in having strong companions around him to improve his odds of survival in dangerous situations. Being evil doesn't mean backstabbing, greedy betrayer. You might have that evil alignment simply because you take a ruthless approach and aren't concerned with collateral damage.

Adventurers put their lives in the hands of their companions so there is a strong trust element there that I would think no adventurer would risk violating. As once you did, you'd be marked for it and no trustworthy adventurer would never adventure with you. In a world where people can resurrect, call down lightening, destroy buildings, behead great beasts, etc an adventurer without allies would be very vulnerable.

Plus an evil character would see the benefit of having that bond and being able to manipulate his/her allies into doing things he/she wanted them to in order to uphold that bond of trust and allegiance. As long as all are upholding to it then the evil character is never cheated or shafted, but once its been broken then they could be dudded by one of the others. So yeah theres a good reason for evil characters upholding trust and fairness for all group members. I played in a drow campaign where we were all evil and that was one of the main reasons for our characters being true to each other. Well that and the fact that the strength of the group made the individual characters stronger.

Mate the ultimate reason for not betraying, backstabbing and cheating your team mates is that its a game and a social one. Everyone's fun is everyone's responsibility so you as a player have a responsibility to not cause disharmoney or anger other players. Theres nothing wrong with evil characters, just players who don't realise that its a game of group entertainment and not just individual entertainment.

I had my players make a Knowledge Religion check that they could get "potentially" make it work with a little blood. Surprise surprise it worked when they tried it....

Also its okay that PCs steamroll some encounters. Not every encounter should be a grinding near death experience.

I think the encounter a day element makes the journey to Tarzion fairly easy. If you're finding that its a dull walkover for your group I'd put in RE's just before and/or after the set encounters to drain the groups' resources. You could also adjust the encounters to better challenge your group, such as throw in a spellcaster, boost stats and/or add in additional opponents.

Well, it probably can't be the same T-Rex as the second book doesn't take place on the Shiv anymore. And once the group is in the screaming jungle I don't think another high CR encounter is really necessary with the ** spoiler omitted ** and ** spoiler omitted ** already around. Of course you can do as you please, just saying.

Sorry Null I was meaning that anyone running book 2 should put in a T-rex. Not that I had put one on the Shiv and was putting another in book 2. Basically making a recommendation based on my group's experience with this AP. I'd say that the only place the T-rex belongs is in book 2. The Shiv is too small, already has an apex predator (the RMD) and the characters are far too low a level. Plus a T-rex really belongs in open plains style environment which doesn't fit the Shiv or books 3 & 4.

I put it in between points G & H (2.7 days travel time). My guys easily walked over points F and G so I thought I'd throw in something dangerous. I figured a big predator like a T-rex would have to be a long way from the major cities otherwise they would have dealt with it.

Given at that point your PCs are likely to be levels 5-7 (mine were), I'd recommend making the T-rex young which at least drops down its stats. Its still lethal, particularly if your group isn't prepared or doesn't respect it. I set it up by having the group meet up with some heavily wounded traders who were part of a larger group hit by the T-rex. Basically a diplomatic encounter for the Charisma skills to come into play and a bit of roleplay with the good aligned ones helping the wounded. PCs were able to learn what had happened and buy gear off the traders to help them prepare for the T-rex. My PCs were able to buy low level scrolls and potions, and sell some of the loot they'd picked up along the way.

To me this encounter was more a story piece to remind the players of the snakes element of the AP and hint at whats to come. I'd focus on the bit the says about how NKechi foreshadows the unveiling of the ruins of a forgotten city from ancient folklore. I had him journey through a thick cloud and float above a city the glittered as if it was made of pure gold. Around the city they could see several forces coming towards it. One an army of mantis, one a legion of sea vermin (crabs and the like), one of gold coins, etc (basically things that could represent the different factions). As the group floats across towards the center of the city the clouds get darker and lightening crackles around them. They see a deep dark pit and its from out of there that the snake comes.

To me thats what this part is really intended to be. Its the set up for the rest of book 2 and a hint at whats to come in the AP. I don't think its intended to challenge the PCs or become a tough combat. I think that the combat bit of this part is just there to give it a bit of action. There's no risk of character death so I handled it lightly and tried to make it a different and give it a bit of uniqueness.

I went off script a bit and stepped outside the rules by ignoring the whole beast shape II bit. I just gave PCs AC 12+Dex/Wis (their choice) and for their attacks just gave them the respective animal's type of attack (eg: slam, claw, talon, whatever). For that attack rolls they used their base attack, but could choose to use their INT/STR bonus to attack and damage. Made their damage d6 or d4 depending on the size of the animal. Other than that PCs still had the same hit points, saves, skills, feats and initiative bonuses. It just made things a bit more interesting and different while still being simple and easy to do on the fly. Plus saves having to flip through books and mess about readjusting stats, attacks, etc.

I'd also recommend being prepared for player creativity. One of my guys was a peacock (he's a bard) so I allowed him to make a dazzling display with his feathers even though he doesn't have the feat. The monkey spent a round flinging dung at it to distract it so I gave the snake a -2 penalty on its next attack. Small things that the players did because they were in the moment so I wanted to encourage that by giving them a benefit for it. The guys enjoyed it and took the combat on with a creative mindset which made it fun.

I think the success of this AP comes down to two elements

1) NPCs - give them value/relevance
I think if the group doesn't bond with the NPCs early the GM loses an interaction tool and the players miss out on a resource and quest source. Without the NPCs its largely just a exploring crawl with little game world interaction. After reading through the book 1 thread I made the NPCs more friendly and willing to help with a sort of "stick together, help each other out and we all survive" mentality. I set up the first night watches with at least one NPC was paired up with a PC so they could share backstories and bond. I'd also recommend adjust the NPC skills list with craft ones so they can help supply the PCs with ammunition, armours and weapons. Any time your group comes back to camp highlight how there is food and fresh water ready and have the NPCs willing to help with healing, identifying, crafting, etc. Basically small stuff that enables the PCs to keep adventuring and exploring. If the cannibals haven't clashed with the PCs yet you could even have the NPCs showing the PCs a dead cannibal that died in their camp traps.

2) The Story - why are we here
The survival and exploring elements tends to draw the focus so after the initial dreams the PCs can forget why they ended up on the island. Theres plenty to do and not all of the encounters close to the campsite link up to the AP story. I ended up repeating the dreams with different players and added in some of my own to remind/draw the group to the key story spots and share some of the backstory. Its easy to get caught up in the explore and crawl elements and forget the story plot that sets up the AP and I think its important to keep the whole "Snakes" element fresh in players minds.

Other tips:
* Mix up the shipwrecks - break away from undead as it gets boring real fast. Plus this is where GMs can have some fun and use their creativity. Theres a thread ("Changing up the shipwrecks") that has a number of good ideas. Also add in normal equipment for the PCs to grab when looting the wrecks (eg: Hammer, pitons, barrels, rope, backpacks, etc) as it adds to the "Lost/Castaway" feel of the adventure and gives the PCs a chance for creativity.

* Diseases can just break PCs so I'd recommend having an npc identify a herb/plant that if they eat every day they get a +2 save vs disease. Or throw in some potions/scrolls in the shipwrecks.

* I added in an RE with locathah (Bestiary 2: 179) partly for the bard to use his social skills and partly for the PCs to trade and use their gold. It went well enough that the PCs are returned to camp to look at what they could use to barter/buy from the Locathah and to search for tubers (delicacy for locathah).

* Gelik jokes - were a hit. He was hated initially, but after using some of the jokes in this thread they took to him.

My group were reluctant to go to the mine too. I had to draw them there by having Athyra say that slavers had gone that way, which got my groups interest as they're against slavery. So they headed there mainly to liberate slaves and figured that while they're there why not do the mine.

But I think as others suggest the expedition is made up of a number of porters and the squares of the map are 20 foot squares so most of the path ways and bridges are 5-10 foot wide. Big enough for wagons to get through with a bit of grunt work from the stack of porters.

While up to this point I went a bit off script and threw in some non-book challenges and roleplay that my group enjoyed:

* in the days leading up to the mine I built up that a big storm was coming. When it finally hit I had Nkechi walk out into it, strip off and dance around in a ritual calling out to Gozreh. Invited my group to join him and had them make perform dance checks. Lightening strikes those in the ritual dealing 2d6 damage and they get a +4 enhancement bonus to a random ability score for the next 24 hours (players rolled d6 to determine which score got the bump). I used this one to bond Nkechi to the group a bit and for them to see him as valuable.

* Later that night a flashflood hit (pg 432 Core). I wanted to throw a non-creature challenge at the group and thought it brought a bit of the setting into play.

* Next morning a couple of cockatrice came down.

* After passing through the mine my guys came across the carcas of a big dinosaur. They poked around to investigate and were beset on by a botfly swarm. Surprised me here with some clever thinking by using a smokestick.

A big part of the fun of this book is the resource management and the joy the PCs get out of finding simple things like cauldrons and arrows. So I wouldn't go down the indestructable ammo path as you're reducing the challenge and taking some of that fun away. My guys were high fiving over finding simple things like a normal shortbow, which was quiet funny.

I'd give your players a heads up on ammo recovery rules and encourage them to take a look at the craft skills. Before my group started I let them know that they wouldn't have access to a stores and the importance of survival skills for the first few levels. If your players aren't interested in the craft skills then I'd recommend adjusting the skills of the NPCs to include the crafting skills that could help out the group.

One thing I've learnt out of DMing is that often players whinge when they're restricting in their access to in game resource (eg healing, ammunition, etc), but will think back on positively. It's like a badge of honour that they endured and survived the grind.

Like jorgenporgen says the Shipwrecks are not only a great way for the group to build up resources, but a place for the DM to be creative and have fun. Its funny to see a player cheer when you read out that they've found 13 arrows.

For the guys gear you could have the come across it as they explore the island. Maybe down the beach wedged in between some rocks is a crate full of arrows. To get to it the group has to get past/through 2-3 shiv dragons (or some other creature). Make the treasure from some encounters their own gear!

How are people finding the pacing of this one? In terms of game sessions/hours I'm thinking my group will race through this. In the first session we did lengthy negotiations to set up a coaltion of two factions, picked up the Tempest and knocked over his challenges, the riots, a couple of random encounters and finished up with the cockfight (brought it ahead of the Salt Mines). I'm thinking at this rate we'll blitz through this book in about 3 maybe 4 sessions. Did others find it quick too?

For the first book we took 6 sessions to knock it over with a typical session being about 6 hours, but we did have two marathon sessions that went for an extra 3-4 hours. We also use online forums to get a lot the group discussion/planning done, which allows us to get stuck right into the game when we able to get together, but I don't really see much of that being relevant here as it looks pretty straight forward - get to Tarzion.

I'm thinking about adding in some more interesting random encounters.

* Flash Floods (CR3): I figure this might be interesting particularly if I combine it with combat. Not sure if that attack should be a random creature or a planned assault by rival faction.

* Aspis Agents: The PCs encounter a small band of merchants where one is an agent of the Aspis Consortium. This agent will look to poison the horses to delay the PCs. A few days later the PCs will come across some merchants who turn out to be a second set of agents that have the task of selling the PCs horses. One or more of the horse's will have horseshoes enchanted with some sort of tracking/location enchantment.

* Merchant assassins: A group of merchants that are really Red Mantis agents. It will look like 2-3 merchants with a wagon, but in the back of the wagon are another 3-4 warriors ready to spring out (ambush). I'm thinking of grabbing a spellcaster from the NPC guide to throw in the mix. Might add another one from that book to liven things up tactically and make things more interesting.

Any other interesting encounters that people used?

For the Kalabuto ambush I'm giving the agents a bit more grunt by using the NPC Guide.

There's a thread called "Unified Expedition" in which a few of us are talking/typing about it. It should get a bit more to it as we start hitting book 3. My guys have managed to organise a coalition made up of them, the Sargavan Govt. and the Pathfinder Society.

Based on the write ups of the different factions and their interests in Savinth-Yhi in the book I took this approach to negotiations:

Pirates - no to deals with Red Mantis, primarily wants wealth and would push for a majority share of the wealth/treasury (60-75%). The most flexible of the lot as they're not fussed about holding territory, but would expect a cut from all land and artefact sales. They would demand any technologies or magical items related to sea travel or boats with no split or sharing. Most likely partner: Pathfinder Society

Sargavan - no to deals with Pirates. Primarily want the wealth and not willing to take less than 75% share of the treasury. Not flexible on control of the city and any magical item/artefacts tied to defense of the city and military/mass warfare. They'd also want any artefacts/items that could unify or divide the people. Most likely partner: Pathfinder Society or Red Mantis

Red Mantis - no to deals with Pirates, primarily want the lost temple and its relics. Will want sole control/occupation of the temple and everything inside. No interference or non-Mantis people to go inside the temple. Prestige/reputation within faction a bonus and they'll want a cut of the treasury. Most likely partner: Aspis Consortium or Sagarvan Govt.

Pathfinder - no to deals with Aspis, primarily after lost knowledge, artefacts and expand regional influence. They want full access to historical sites in the ruins and artefacts and would not be flexible on this. Want a lodge on site within the ruins. Want majority of artefacts. Wealth a bonus, but expect a cut of the treasury. Most likely partner: Sagarvan Govt. or Pirates

Aspis - no to deals with Pathfinder, primarily wants the wealth and the potential wealth from exotic artefact sales. Prestige a bonus. They'd want majority of treasury and artefact sales (75%). They expect to be able to set up a trading outpost there. Most likely partner: Red Mantis

I liked the Gelik jokes posted in this thread and found a few more that I used. Seems to have bonded the little guy to the group who hated him before. Here's the ones that I used:

Gelik Joke 1:
One day a King had his warriors and guests around a table. On the opposite sides of the table was the King's champion and a Half Elf bard. The champion was an arrogant brutish man who took delight in belittling the courtiers at the table. The Half Elf quickly realised he was far too clever for the arrogant champion and his cheer squard of fellow warriors around the table. He took great pleasure in subtle mocking to impress the ladies and in no time he was locked in a contest of one-up-manship. The Champion tired of the insults thought he'd outwit the Half Elf and asked, "What's the difference between a Half-Elf and a Half-Wit?" To which the Half Elf replied, "The width of this table"

Gelik Joke 2:
A knight returned to the king’s castle with prisoners, bags of gold and other riches from his victories. “Tell me of your battles,” said the king.

“Well, sire, I have been robbing and stealing on your behalf for weeks, burning the all of the villages of your enemies in the north.”

The king was horrified. “But I have no enemies in the north,” he said.

“Well,” said the knight, “you do now.”

Gelik Joke 3:
Q: How many pirates does it take to set fire to a lantern?
A: Forget the lantern our ships on fire!

Gelik Joke 4:
An elf tired of travelling late into the night decides to stop at a run down inn. He pulls up his wagon and knocks on the door. The old owner opens the hatch and croaks out, “name!” To which the elf answered, "Caladrel Lanliss Seldlon Talathel Summerchime." Which drew a reply of, "Sir, we don't have enough rooms for you and all your women."

Gelik Joke 5:
A travelling bard looking to ply his trade walks up to a inn named "The Dragon and the Knight". He approaches the bar seeking the innkeeper, but before he could open his mouth, the shrewish innkeeper's wife snaps "What do you want here, you tramp?" The bard eyes her for a moment and glances at the inn's sign. "Is the knight in?"

Gelik Joke 6:
A man was paying his last respects to his wife when someone asked him: "Whose at rest?", he replied: "Me, now."

Gelik Joke 7:
A curiosity hangs by the thigh of a man, under its master's cloak. It is pierced through in the front, it is stiff and hard and it has a good standing place. When a man pulls up his own robe above his knee, he means to poke with the head of this thing that familiar hole of matching length which he has often filled before.
Answer: Key, you sleazy bags

I told my PCs they could crush up the many red pearls they had gotten from the cannibals and mix them in with potion reagents/scroll ink to use as the "expensive" part of crafting. I figured there were appropriate liquids in Malikadna's hut that just needed a little oomph to magic up correctly.

Mate thats a ripper of an idea. Keeps the supernatural element flavour of the island and encourages the PCs to dive for pearls while keeping with the GP mechanics. I like it.

I added in a random encounter with locathah (Bestiary 2: 179) partly for the bard to use his social skills and partly for the PCs to trade and use their gold. We've just had the initial introduction and it went well enough that the PCs are returning to camp to look at what they could use to barter/buy from the Locathah. I figure I'll throw in what they could use for potions in trade for gold. An unintentional benefit of using the Locathah is that the PCs are planning to go into the jungle in search of some type of potato (Locathah like tubers), which is good as my group has kept to the beaches.

Hey guys I'd like some feedback on a minor situation with my group.

I've got a witch in my group who wants to use the brew potion hex to make potions. Obviously on the Shiv this is a bit problematic given D&D and PF use GP costs for item creation rather than list components. Normally not a problem in your standard game where theres an accessible market you'd just spend the gold to acquire what you need. So after having a bit of think on it and considering that you can't exactly stroll down to the local markets, I'm thinking about giving my PCs the chance to find the components and heres what I've come with:

Limited to first level potions only. Note too sure if I should open it up a bit for potions that remove disease, etc.

Survival or Knowledge Nature check to acquire components. PCs can help out and so can the NPCs which should also make them more useful. The difficulty of the check depends on whether you're deep in the jungle or on the fringes near the beach. A search of the jungle takes 4 hours and has a DC 15 and a search on the finges takes 4 hours with DC 20 to gather the basics to make a stock standard CLW potion.

For every 2 points you beat the DC you can either reduce the time spent gathering or choose to gather enough for another dose to make one more potion. You can reduce the time by 1 hour, but it always takes at least 1 hour no matter how much you smash the DC by.

So is the time too short or too long? I'm thinking about adding in that a search in the same area increases the DC by 2 for each previous search.

For a bit of added spice I was thinking that the potency might be a bit random and require a craft alchemy check for consistency. So for this I'm looking at a DC10 check for a standard potion. If they fail the check by 5 or more the potion is weaker and doesn't give a CL bonus. Still consumes the same amount of time and dose/s.

There's also the chance to make a stronger and more potent potion (DC25). Yes the DC is huge for their low level and requires a high roll, but if they hit it they've discovered a secret ingredient for that type of potion that they can use for the rest of the campaign and potentially financially benefit from (assuming you could farm/cultivate it). Once discovered crafting such a potion is normal with the only challenge being locating and gathering the secret ingredient, which will take a Survival or Knowledge Nature check (say DC 25). A stronger potion grants double the CL bonus.

What do people think? My players tend to enjoy this side of things, but I'm wondering if I'm making things too messy.

We played last night and I used Firest's suggestion with a bit of twist. I started it with the PCs spotting the skeletons of a man and woman holding hands slumped against the wall in the captain's cabin. Once one of the PCs stepped into the Cabin the ghost of the woman created an illusion that replayed a pirate assault on the ship. The PCs became part of the crew and heard someone yell out, "They're gaining on us!". The PCs looked to see a large pirate ship coming in fast. The Captain came out of his cabin buckling on his sword with his wife behind him. He rallies the troops saying that its a fight to survive. Thinking on this I would probably should have had the Captain mention that the pirate leader was the one who Ishirou has the treasure maps from.

The PCs realised that the ship was about to be overrun with pirates. Initially they thought it was an illusion being created by the captain and were weighing up on whether killing the captain would end it. I had the pirates come in waves with the PCs joining the crew in fighting them off. I started with 6 crew, the captain and his wife, and the PCs (3). So 13 for the good guys and went with 15 pirates. At the end of every round I had one player roll a d20 against me. At the time it was just a flat roll, but thinking about it after I would probably add the number of the pirates to my roll and the number of the crew to the PC roll. If I won I rolled d4+1 and added that many more pirates. If I had the full group with me I'd probably make it d4+3. If they won I didn't add any more and if they beat my roll by 5 I took 1 off and by 10+ I took 1d4 off (killed by crew). Once a round ended with no pirates the assault was defeated and illusion faded away as the ghost was now at peace.

I had the ghost (the woman who was the Captain's wife) walk past the players brushing her hand across their cheeks gently in thanks granting them a permanent +1 HP bump. The guys really enjoyed this one and I think it will be a memorable one for the first book so thanks for that Firest. I should add that no PCs died, but I had plan for TPK or any going down. If any died they would wake up (no hp loss) at the end of it with a major headache for the day (-2 to all d20 rolls). If I TPK'd them then they'd all wake up with the headache. The ghost would not reset the illusion for them until after the next full moon.

The other one I did was animated coral. I used animated object from the Beastiary for the stats. To set the encounter up my guys wanted to see if they could make a raft and sale across to the fungus islands. They didn't know about the fungus, but looking at their map of the island they believed it would possibly be a safer base camp. Their goal was to see if it was possible to sale across on a raft. From the beach they could make out the island, but decided to swim out to the three tiny islands there for a better look at the rips. At the first island they noticed a thick nest of coral in between the little islands that held some bodies of long lost sailors. One spotted something shiney and they decided to try to lasso the bodies to get them out. It was then that the coral came to life and came at them as it was the coral creatures lair.

Pretty easy encounter, but at least something different to undead. One of my guys rolled a 1 on his knowledge check so he believed it was a youngling from a Coral Dragon. Made for a mix of enemies as they'd taken on Shiv Dragons, Sasha's quest, pirates (ghost ship), coral and cannibals. My guys are a mix of level 1s and 2s now so I'll probably try to get them in amongst the main encounters of the book, but I'll use yours Catdragon if they keep exploring the wrecks. So cheers guys.

My group has taken to targeting the shipwrecks to build up their resources and I'm a bit sick of undead and aquatic animals. Are there some other more creative and interesting options that I could be using? What have other people done to mix it up?

Also what sort of stuff (loot wise) have people put in the random ships? I've taken to grabbing bits out of the equipment section (rope, block and tackle, blankets, etc) that the guys have picked up for survival options. They seem to really like this and I was toying with the idea of throwing in a relic or important item of some sort. I'm new to the pathfinder setting so I don't really know it that well. So what would be a good one to throw out that could tie into the adventure path later on?