Major,
I haven't been updating the characters on discovery points but I have been revealing various mysteries to them as they go along. I think that the discovery point system is too abstract for my players - they are a thoroughly realpolitik group.
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Hey Major, I did NOT tell them how the other camps were doing unless they specifically went looking for that information. I had a jungle rogue that was really interested in sneaking into enemy camps and stealing their discovery points. Since this really isn't allowed by the camp rules (only way to steal discovery points is a full camp vs camp assault) we made a compromise. He could get close enough to the enemy camps' research tents to tell exactly how many discovery points they had. This seemed to make everyone happy.
Heck, I didn't even tell them where the other camps were located unless the campfires could be reasonably seen from the PCs' camp. Of course that was a hint for the ranger to head out and scout for the location of the other camps. So if during the day I said another camp seemed to be packing up and porters were moving south, and there were no campfires in sight that evening, the ranger would head out and start scouting. Then I'd put the camp back on the map once he spotted it.
Really made the party's sneaky-guys feel like they were contributing to the intelligence operations of the camp.
On another note, my PCs were a bit cool towards the whole Discovery Points too at first, usually just leaving the camp to mop a few of those up instead of assisting with Mysteries. Then I came right out and told them metagame-wise that there are PA bonuses and xp story awards for claiming the city first.
They suddenly got more interested. :)
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Also, I think the whole Dragon Rumor on the Mercantile District turning out to be a Bat is utter and total crap. Paizo's APs, while I love them, are always really low on dragons, which I think sucks (even more if you consider the original name of the game); and this would be a real let down for my players. I'm SO putting a Dragon running that District.
I'm going to add in one of the kongomatos from the bestiary in Sanctum of the Serpent God. It will have to be something for later (CR 15) but it could make some appearances in the sky well before hand. They get a dragon to fight (or encounter or make some use of) at some point and it is unique to the Mwangi expanse. Not so smart, no spells, brutal strength and sonic breath weapon.
I kind of think it would be funny if the pc's were boasting to the natives about the "dragon" they killed because they thought the natives were just that dumb and about the point the kongomato flies over.
On another note, my PCs were a bit cool towards the whole Discovery Points too at first, usually just leaving the camp to mop a few of those up instead of assisting with Mysteries. Then I came right out and told them metagame-wise that there are PA bonuses and xp story awards for claiming the city first.
I'll probably do just that.
I kind of think it would be funny if the pc's were boasting to the natives about the "dragon" they killed because they thought the natives were just that dumb and about the point the kongomato flies over.
That sounds cool. I may steal that idea...
I'm gonna need some help. Lots of questions, and I want to know how other people have handled these:
1. Buying and selling items. The rest of the campaign takes place here. The nearest city is like 800 miles away (exaggeration). How does the party sell their loot and purchase new gear? And how long does it take for their faction to acquire the gear that the party wants to purchase?
2. Acquiring the discovery points. The PCs clear a district and can now make those Knowledge (History) checks to make discoveries, and everyday the faction will make an exploration check to earn discovery points. But the faction can also use the paragraph on page 59 about "Discovering Mysteries". Is this the same process used on page 10 with the Knowledge (History) checks?
3. The faction stats seem wrong to me. For example, every faction looks like they've set up 500 feet from a river or lake. There are few places on the map that aren't 500 feet from a river or lake. Also, using the Pathfinders as an example, they get +4 to exploration checks and have set up in "ruins", a ruined tower to be specific. But their stats give them an exploration score of only 12. Did they only put 6 points into exploration, then? Does that mean that they're not, technically, using the water campsite for +2 supply? Looks to me that the tower they're holed up in is adjacent to a water source that feeds into the lake. How is this not a water campsite?
I was really excited about running this module, but the party already seems bored with this sandbox stuff. They started exploring the Mercantile district straight away, and even with random encounters, it's mostly been a dull drag. I don't even know how to describe one empty set of buildings from another set, so I've resorted to blocking off areas and saying this took you 4 hours to make a thorough search and you didn't find jack. Had to say that a lot, actually. Maybe it's just this district, as it seems very flavorless.
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I basically look at the Azlanti as kind of like the romans and greeks of ancient times. My descriptions and flavouring of the city has been heavily inspired by them. Wikipedia and podcasts have been handy here in giving me some ideas. I've described statues of heroes, pillars enscribed with pictures and symbols of the gods, murials of Savith, bronze enscribing referencing famous houses/organisations, etc. Basically I've looked at what we've got left of the ancient societies of this world, how they decorated things and the legends/stories we know of them and their key figures and tried to replicate for the Azlanti.
As we've neared the end of book 3 I had the Iron Cross create a neutral trading outpost so the PCs have a different place to hear about the other factions and buy/sell bigger GP items. All expeditions can come in and trade with them and they have no interest in heading into the city. All they want is to make money off the expeditions and adventurers going into the city. I've set them with a higher limit in items and will have that grow as the story progresses and I figure more things are found/pulled out of the city. All people entering the camp must wear peace knots on their weapons and I've descibed the campsite as heavily guarded with veteran warriors and spellcasters. Entry into the camp means you abide by Iron Cross rule. No fighting or provoking others. Failure to comply means being blacklisted from all Iron Cross traders or possibly more heavier punishments such as stripping of all gear for compensation, loss of limb, or death.
I've also added some minor bits that have hooked the players and encouraged a bit more activity in the city and bonded them to it. I wanted a lost technology hook and here's what I've used thats worked well:
1) Memory Masks - bronze masks of human faces. When someone puts the mask on they gain a free feat. So far I've just used three; angry face (free weapon proficiency - long sword), stern face (free chainmail armour proficiency feat), and neutral face(free alertness feat). They have to succeed or will save DC 15 where failure leaves them unable to gain the benefit and stuck with a headache for the day. I figure by using small/minor feats it won't unbalance the game and serves as a good reward.
2) Referenced power armours. After reading Brandon Sanderson's Way of Kings I got this idea for ancient armour that functions like power armour in comics. I'm going to have this armour function a bit like Elven Chain in that it grants the wearer more than just AC and enhancement properties. My intention is to have it give the toughness feat, endure elements for the wearer, jump 3/day, strength surge ability 3/day, etc. Basically things you don't normally get as armour enhancement properties that aren't completely awesome, but by stacking a few on top of normal enhancements will make for an appealing armour. I'm thinking of using Gozreh with the armours linked to storms. Naturally the guys will come across some basic versions and then as we get into the later books some far more powerful versions.
3) Legends - I've started to build up some legends on famous individuals, heroes and organisations. I've used a bit of roman history here taking the non-Julius Ceasar and Hannibal related bits that most people aren't overly familiar with. It's really breathed some life into the city.
4) Murder mystery - this was a real hit and a good change of pace. I had some cultist of the god of secrets infiltrate the camp and start sabotaging. Small things at first, like food poisoning, getting dinosaurs stampeding through camp, structures collapsing, and then slowly working up to things like theft of an idol worshipped by the native porters/workers of the expedition to set them against the expedition leaders, and of course murdering a key researcher. My guys loved it and it was a great change of pace to go into the city of death. I'd done some foreshadowing on this with the end of book 2.
I'd recommend this thread for all your Azlanti info:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2msyd?Collated-Notes-on-Azlant-and-the-Azlanti
There is another thread where someone has put up info he/she used for the different districts. Can't recall which one it is, but I got it from these boards and its very useful.
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1. Buying and selling items. The rest of the campaign takes place here. The nearest city is like 800 miles away (exaggeration). How does the party sell their loot and purchase new gear? And how long does it take for their faction to acquire the gear that the party wants to purchase?
The faction camp is good up to 2500 gp. If they want to buy or sell up to that level they can do it right there.
To get an item more than that, they have to have the camp make a supply roll. I think it's something like 30 days - result, down to a minimum of one week. So most things that they have to order (over the 2500 gp) will take 7 days to get there.Much easier way is for the caster to learn Teleport at earliest opportunity. This solved many of the limits by at least making quick trips to Kalabuto where the gp limit was 10 or 12,000 (can't remember off the top of my head)
2. Acquiring the discovery points. The PCs clear a district and can now make those Knowledge (History) checks to make discoveries, and everyday the faction will make an exploration check to earn discovery points. But the faction can also use the paragraph on page 59 about "Discovering Mysteries". Is this the same process used on page 10 with the Knowledge (History) checks?
That was a bit ambiguous whether the camp needs to make the Knowledge (History) check or not. I just had them automatically pass.
So the way I did it (that worked well) is if the district has been cleared, the camp can either a) make a roll for discovery points (possibly getting 2 or more) or b) automatically get 1 mystery. And remember each mystery is ALSO worth 1 discovery point.If you want to speed things up, you could have the camp be able to do both I suppose. Get 1 mystery (worth 1 discovery point) AND make an exploration roll for an additional 0-3 discovery points.
3. The faction stats seem wrong to me. For example, every faction looks like they've set up 500 feet from a river or lake. There are few places on the map that aren't 500 feet from a river or lake. Also, using the Pathfinders as an example, they get +4 to exploration checks and have set up in "ruins", a ruined tower to be specific. But their stats give them an exploration score of only 12. Did they only put 6 points into exploration, then? Does that mean that they're not, technically, using the water campsite for +2 supply? Looks to me that the tower they're holed up in is adjacent to a water source that feeds into the lake. How is this not a water campsite?
There's a couple of the faction scores that didn't seem to add up. I don't think the NPC camps played by the exact same rules as the PC camps. Probably due to the +1 / NPC the PC camp can use to offset some of the difference.
You can really play fast and loose with the NPC camp scores. The +1 to all camp stats once the Factions start clearing districts is what is really going to make up the difference quickly anyway.I was really excited about running this module, but the party already seems bored with this sandbox stuff. They started exploring the Mercantile district straight away, and even with random encounters, it's mostly been a dull drag. I don't even know how to describe one empty set of buildings from another set, so I've resorted to blocking off areas and saying this took you 4 hours to make a thorough search and you didn't find jack. Had to say that a lot, actually. Maybe it's just this district, as it seems very flavorless.
It is partly due to starting there. I had the exact same problem starting in the Mercantile district. Once there's more NPCs to direct/track/follow to major encounter areas, things go a bit quicker.
BUT, there was still quite a lot of "You search this block for d4+1 hours and find d20 gp worth of interesting trinkets (insert random items I'd see around the room... mirrors, finely made chairs, etc)"
If it was an empty block I'd also give them a 50% chance of finding some small items that would give a random level 0 spell effect. A bowl that would chill food put in it. A box that would shine boots. A brush that would change the color of fabric it was run across. Children's toys that would move by themselves. Very minor stuff like that just to spice things up.
I like the idea of tying the camp's Supply score to the amount of time it takes to order expensive items. I also like the idea of another group coming in and playing host to all the factions, sort of like you have in the oil and natural gas industry, where another company will come in and service all the oil service companies, having no interest in competing with them. Both could be valid, and I might consider implementing both. Having neutral ground where the PCs can see and talk to their NPC castaway friends would be good for roleplaying, and encourage the group to take a day off every now and then from all the exploring.
Maybe I'll make up a random list of 100 cool items of Azlanti origin for the PCs to find in the ruins. In fact, it'd make a pretty good thread and a lot of people could use it that way. I'm not very creative, myself, at least in a lot of the flavor details.
I also like the idea of inserting info on legendary Azlanti that the PCs can discover as mysteries when they start to exhaust the other ones. I like how many of the mysteries are one time things, and having a lot of lore about Saventh-Yhi would give me a lot of things I could tell the party that might make the city feel more robust and less like a flat map on a table.
I can see it happening over time, but if book 3 takes all of 3 months, and book 4 takes a month at most, that's only four months. It took almost that long for the expedition to get here. I'd think it'd take a year, at least, before we started seeing more permanent structures start to come up.
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Once the city was claimed at the end of Book 4, I gave them an additional month before the valley was largely "pacified." This was were I stopped rolling for camp attacks from random encounters and the party could move through the valley relatively safely. This took us to the end of Book 5.
During the month of Book 5, the claiming faction (the Pathfinders) were moving more permanent settlers/settlements into the camp area. As Martryn said, no new buildings being constructed, but using cleared ruins around the base camp for temporary shops, inns, etc.
Halfway through book 6 (about another 2 weeks), the party and faction moved enough people and goods into the valley to set up a Saventh-Yhi Pathfinder Lodge in one of the larger ruined buildings.
So at about 5 months from arrival at the valley, the area is pretty safe and just moving into what I'd call "settled." Troops from the various factions are flooding in for the attack in Book 6 and with them will be coming alot of support assets. These will most likely stick around and be the settlers you spoke of.
As for inns, brothels, merchants, etc... I'm sure those would show up long before the valley was settled. In the base camp set up in tents or in cleared ruins. That's part of the camp's established 2500 gp limit.
I think I'm going to say it's a flat 30 day wait between buying / selling things, and seeing the results. If they're going to sell all their fat loot, they give it to the Pathfinders (their faction), wait 30 days, then see the results. Same if they want to spend that gold.
This will be modified using the Supply score of the camp. I'll make a supply check every time this happens, and the real wait time is that result from 30. I think they have a supply score of 11, so if they rolled a 10 on a d20, the modified roll is a 21, so they'd have a 9 day wait for their gear. If they happen to roll a 30 or higher, I'll say that they were lucky enough that the Pathfinders have that item with them and are willing to sell, or a 31 means they can purchase the item immediately at a 5% discount.
This, of course, is offset by the gear the Pathfinders already have in stock, which is what's available for purchase using the faction points. As the party gains faction points, more gear will become available.
Maybe by the 5th adventure we'll have regularly teleportation runs, but for now, I think this works.
I'm gonna need some help. Lots of questions, and I want to know how other people have handled these:
1. Buying and selling items. The rest of the campaign takes place here. The nearest city is like 800 miles away (exaggeration). How does the party sell their loot and purchase new gear? And how long does it take for their faction to acquire the gear that the party wants to purchase?
I looked at what the AP said (which has already been discussed in this thread) and thought it hurt suspension of disbelief too much. If the expeditions can acquire new stuff so quickly then why didn't they use that method (whatever it is) to get to Tazion right away? The exception is that I gave the Aspis consortium a ring gate connecting to home office, so they can certainly get new stuff pretty much immediately. They'll sell it to anyone else at a premium.
I looked at what gear the NPCs in Saventh-Yhi had and figured out where they got it. For instance, I ended up creating a boggard adept who could create magical pens and inks for scrolls/spellbooks as well as a few miscellaneous minor magic items, and had her open up a trading post.
I also added an NPC with boots of teleport in one of the other expeditions, though he's shady enough that the PCs are leery of overusing that particular resource.
For the most part though I just described the situation to the players and then made it their problem. If they want to buy new stuff, they need to figure out how. The teleport spell is only level five, so parties should be able to learn it before the end of chapter three, after which they can take care of things however they like.
I like the idea of using the Supply scores for each expedition. It makes the three scores mean more to the PCs if they directly influence their actions. My party enjoyed making the rolls. Not only did the camp get attacked via random encounters, but if the PCs rolled a random encounter while they were in camp (I pre-roll them, so if they happen to be in camp at the time the random encounter is to occur), I just have the camp make a defense score, and describe the aftermath. And they're starting to get into this discovery point thing, rolling exploration checks for the expedition. One player really nailed it, rolling two 19's and a 20, with the exploration score being 11, so now their expedition has a bit of a headstart over the others.
Anyways, I figure it'll be quicker to resupply and place orders if it's a smaller group traveling quickly. The expeditions were doomed to move slowly, and the PCs couldn't get too far ahead while trailblazing. Dedicated scouts / messengers, could travel quickly using things like Mount spells, to keep refreshing mounts for quick movement, Bags of Holding to carry large quantities of goods quickly, and cheap Rings of Sustenance so they don't have to spend too long resting on their epic runs.
Right now I'm most worried about my PCs combat abilities. Everything is too easy. I'm not sure if those Keches were supposed to be challenging, but I threw 12 at the party all at once, and with a surprise round, and one character dropped to single digit HPs, and he had focused fire from 4 flanking Keches making full attacks. A +7 to attack isn't high enough to regularly hit AC's in the mid 20's, and 1d4+1 damage isn't going to drop a PC any time soon. I'm afraid I'll throw something too hard at them in an attempt to challenge them and kill them all off in a single combat, which is the last thing I want, but I don't want things to be so easy that they start to bore of the campaign.
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Anyways, I figure it'll be quicker to resupply and place orders if it's a smaller group traveling quickly. The expeditions were doomed to move slowly, and the PCs couldn't get too far ahead while trailblazing. Dedicated scouts / messengers, could travel quickly using things like Mount spells, to keep refreshing mounts for quick movement, Bags of Holding to carry large quantities of goods quickly, and cheap Rings of Sustenance so they don't have to spend too long resting on their epic runs.
At first our group had the same questions on how they could have stuff ordered to the camp so quickly, but I think Martryn nailed the main reasons.
-It took the PCs expedition nearly 2 months to travel from Eleder to Tazion, but most of the re-supply orders can be filled in Kalabuto (only half the distance)
-A small group of 2-3 riders is going to move MUCH faster than a deep jungle expedition largely on foot
-Once the route is blazed (by the PCs and expedition), others are going to have a much easier time traveling it.
-The more time that passes, the more supply trips up to the base camp, the better established the trail becomes. This is well reflected in the Camp Supply score increasing.
When you factor in those things, a one-week minimum time to get an item ordered to the camp makes a bit more sense, as Martryn said.
Right now I'm most worried about my PCs combat abilities. Everything is too easy. I'm not sure if those Keches were supposed to be challenging, but I threw 12 at the party all at once, and with a surprise round, and one character dropped to single digit HPs, and he had focused fire from 4 flanking Keches making full attacks. A +7 to attack isn't high enough to regularly hit AC's in the mid 20's, and 1d4+1 damage isn't going to drop a PC any time soon. I'm afraid I'll throw something too hard at them in an attempt to challenge them and kill them all off in a single combat, which is the last thing I want, but I don't want things to be so easy that they start to bore of the campaign.
This is partly due to starting in the Mercantile district again. I found that area a little on the weak side as well, but it's the first area the PCs are likely to hit and Book 3 starts them off nice and easy. You can have a bit more fun with the shadows in the bank (consider letting the PCs get down into the empty submerged vaults and then having shadows appear from the walls above, below and next to them. Good times...) and the Mwangi giant bat should be more of a challenge.
For the other areas, the mook encounters become a BIT tougher... but the PCs should still be steamrolling them. This is the time to let your party actually feel like heroes as they cut through the evil humanoids holding the city. The real trick is to keep on their resource management. KEEP throwing patrols at them. You have alot of mooks in each district to play around with. And they know the ruins much better than the party does. So what if they burn down the first boggard patrol easily. Probably the 2nd too. But what about the 3rd and 4th ones circling around to cut them off from their nice easy retreat back to camp when they think they're "done" for the day?
Basically I'm saying don't let the Kech get you down. :) My PCs blazed right through them with little trouble too. It was when they started cutting through large numbers of far more organized boggards, degenerate serpentfolk and charou-ki that I was able to stress their resources and make them sweat more.
Each district does also have at least one tough encounter that should strain your party a bit more. Sure they can drop keches all day long but what about keches and then the Mwangi giant bat? Or they might struggle to drop the Green God and burn all they've got on him, but then you can throw a few more boggard patrols at them as they try to fall back to camp.
Also don't forget that the heavy rains and jungle mist can make the easiest of encounters much more difficult especially for a "ranged/caster heavy" party. One of the best sessions we had was after hunkering down through several days of extreme rain, the weather finally broke and the party set out into the Farming district as the temperatures once again started to soar. Trying to press forward through the thick mists added a whole new element of danger as boggard patrols kept leaping out almost right on top of them.
They fought the bat before the keches. It was a tougher fight, and might have led to a player death if the party wasn't really coordinated. The bat scooped up the gnome sorcerer and would have easily killed him, but the druid managed to get over and cast Freedom of Movement.
And the shadows actually killed a cohort, and was close to being a TPK. I shouldn't complain about the encounters being too easy, as several of them are difficult. I guess I'm just frustrated because the party had two fights against the keches that were absolutely boring for me, and hard to keep track of kech HPs, and then they wtf-stomped the boggard oracle on the island in the government district. Two silence spells, two lightning bolts, and a charging fighter ended that one quick.
I should remember the rain and mist, as a reduced visibility would benefit the monsters and make the fights harder. Thanks for reminding me.
martryn,
The other thing to do is have the monsters bring the fight to the party. If the party has been raiding an area that is organized it is reasonable for that group (especially from the Military or Government districts) to raid back.
It's an excellent way to give the party the jitters. A small raiding party with some raiders getting away in the night followed by a larger raid at dawn. Just take care as to the size of the party or you can end up with a TPK.
If you just want to provide your party with a more difficult time have the raiders steal supplies.
martryn,
The other thing to do is have the monsters bring the fight to the party. If the party has been raiding an area that is organized it is reasonable for that group (especially from the Military or Government districts) to raid back.
The party hasn't been anywhere but the Mercantile District. Things are gonna get a bit crazier now that they're starting to branch out to other districts. The Sargavans have riled up the Military district, and that might spill over to affect the PCs expedition.
Also, there's an aboleth that's a bit upset with the party right now.
How did you guys handle Egzimora?
The party has successfully routed the Residential District. The druid is high enough level to cast Control Plants, and he won initiative when the party reached the top of the ziggurat. Basically Kliboolya and his "bodyguards" are charmed by the druid, who led them off into the wilderness for a conference, and the party led a contingent of Pathfinder agents onto the ziggurat where they Acid Splashed the Russet Mold out of existence. Now they've stumbled on Egzimora's manor house, and it's pretty obvious that she's not entirely what she seems. I tried to use the written information about how she's bound to the manor house and can't leave for any long period of time, but the party are asking her questions like "Where'd you come from?", "How long have you been here?", and "How are you bound to the manor?". I've played it off that she's been here so long that she can't remember, and everything is fuzzy, and I realize that all of these things are lies she's telling, but it doesn't give much else. I didn't give her "fake" backstory much thought before the session.
Also, why does this adventure have so much left out? Too much is left up to the DM. It's starting to get frustrating trying to pull together different maps for encounters, and keeping track of so many things going on behind the scenes. If it weren't for stealing some of the content other DMs have used and posted on this site, I'd be completely over my head with this specific adventure.
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How did you guys handle Egzimora?
I ran with an idea that Nullpunkt used from his own journal and it worked great. Might want to check out his thread "Nullpunkt's Journal of City of Seven Spears."
Egzimora has travelled around the valley a bit so knew about the ghost at the entrance to the city. So when the party arrived, she was very successfully in passing herself off as another member of the ill-fated Alithorpe Expedition that the group had already learned of (from the ghost's journal). She said she was a sorcerer from that group and had stumbled on the mansion and was now cursed/bound here. My normally paranoid party bent over backwards to try and help her, all to no avail.My plan was that once the party finally decided to give up and come back later, she'd thank them for their attempts and offer to teach them some of her skills in crafting and alchemy. The PCs wouldn't be too thrown off by this, since they'd done the same things with the castaways on Smuggler's Shiv to learn their boons once their quests were complete. I think I'd have been able to get a few of the casters to spend the night there "studying" and possibly end up as plant experiments but the party's halfling rogue starting getting bored with all the "talky bits." He slipped off and started exploring the manor. Once he found the wine cellar, Egzimora knew her gig was up and launched her attack on a very surprised party.
Still a great encounter over all.
Also, why does this adventure have so much left out? Too much is left up to the DM. It's starting to get frustrating trying to pull together different maps for encounters, and keeping track of so many things going on behind the scenes. If it weren't for stealing some of the content other DMs have used and posted on this site, I'd be completely over my head with this specific adventure.
Yup. All I can say is "Welcome to City of Seven Spears." It is a good yet horrible adventure. I loved the flexibility of doing whatever I wanted with the factions and tribes, but -as you pointed out- there's a LOT that was still missing. I too pulled lots of great stuff from the boards here and sounds like you're on the right track doing the same.
All I can recommend is stay flexible with the maps and try to have some fun. SS does get better with a bit more structure (and maps!) in books 4-6.
One other idea I'd recommed borrowing form the boards is not having a clear distinction between module 3 and module 4. If you allow the party to locate one or two of the crypts from module 4 before the end of module 3 you avoid a jarring transition.
I also had a number of encounters with various slaves of the Body Thief from module 4 during module 3. Knowing that there is an entity trying to pull everyone's strings gives the party something interesting to worry about.
Another thing that worked well for my group was having them encounter survivors from other groups failed expeditions (Maybe some Sargavan scouts fleeing a group from the Military District) and giving your party an opportunity to expand their following.
(They could encounter an NPC who is the cleric of their dreams and use that leadership skill to gain a cohort - if they roleplay it reasonably well.)
Egzimora has travelled around the valley a bit so knew about the ghost at the entrance to the city. So when the party arrived, she was very successfully in passing herself off as another member of the ill-fated Alithorpe Expedition that the group had already learned of (from the ghost's journal). She said she was a sorcerer from that group and had stumbled on the mansion and was now cursed/bound here. My normally paranoid party bent over backwards to try and help her, all to no avail.
My party never found the ghost or the journal. I laid out the map of Saventh-Yhi before them as they entered the valley, and let them immediately start looking around, and they never looked over in that direction. That does give her a plausible cover story, though. They do know about the missing Pathfinder expedition from times of yore.
All I can recommend is stay flexible with the maps and try to have some fun. SS does get better with a bit more structure (and maps!) in books 4-6.
I am very much looking forward to the later adventures. I love dungeon crawls, and there looks to be some amazing ones coming up.
One other idea I'd recommed borrowing form the boards is not having a clear distinction between module 3 and module 4. If you allow the party to locate one or two of the crypts from module 4 before the end of module 3 you avoid a jarring transition.
I need to start doing that. I don't have the 4th module yet as we're only three sessions into the 3rd. I should pick that up, though, and start letting them stumble across things.
I am implementing the other expeditions, though. Next session they're going to get a request for aid from the Sargavans, who have riled up the military district and set in motion a few things that I still don't know how to handle.
Hey everyone, great posts and great questions so far about SS. I'll add my own:
I'm currently in the middle of the City of Seven Spears and things are really dragging. My PCs have had fun exploring the city so far, but a sandbox type game moves very slowly in my group and I can feel my players are getting antsy. It's been about a month of in-game time and they have cleared three districts and are currently exploring two more. However, they only have around 35 discovery points, a long way from the 120 needed. Is this about right for this point in the game? How have your campaigns progressed?
I guess I'm looking for ways to speed things up. I'm really looking forward to the next books, but I don't want to skip over all of the exploration aspects of this current book. Is there anything I can cut that the PCs won't miss, without creating gaps in the story? How can I seamlessly speed up the acquisition of discovery points?
Full disclosure: Part of the reason it feels like it's taking forever is that my group only plays every other week, so it's been about 6 months of real time to get through 1 month of game time. Ugh!
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35 pts after a month of in-game time is right about on track. It should take 3-4 in-game months to explore the entire city.
One thing to remember to speed things up is that yes the camp gets 1-2 (possibly 3) discovery points with an Exploration roll. BUT the PCs can also make a Knowledge roll to gain a Mystery which is also worth a discovery point as well. So the PCs can essentially give the camp an extra discovery point through their personal effort. If you want to speed this up, give one, two or however many NPCs you want the ability to also make Knowledge rolls to gain mysteries and thus more discovery points. OR allow the PCs their Knowledge roll even if they go out adventuring during the day (its supposed to be an either or - adventure or spend the day looking for an extra mystery). You could easily say the PC(s) adventure for the day then go over what the camp found that day in the evening and gain another mystery.
Also remember that the more districts the PCs secure, the faster the discovery points will come. The +1 to each camp stat gives more to the Exploration stat, so they'll roll higher and get more points each time.
I had a sit down with one of my players recently, and we've both decided that this is the weakest adventure we've ever played in / run. And our group has done Shackled City, Savage Tide, Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Legacy of Fire, Jade Regent, and Kingmaker.
Some of the shortcuts in the writing are frustrating. For example, they tell you to take advantage of the dungeon tiles. I bought them, and even the ziggurat one, doubled in scale, doesn't work as a representation of the ziggurats in the city. How hard would it have been to just put some maps in the book? Maybe take out that section on Juju worship that doesn't even come up and instead give us an article on Azlanti culture, exploring ruins, and some common building floorplans.
And I know this is partly my fault for not pushing it harder, but my group doesn't feel invested in the adventure path. They've figured out (it wasn't hard) that the serpentfolk and somehow involved, and the campaign will likely end with a confrontation with a weakened Ydersius, but we're halfway through the third module and they don't really understand why their characters are sticking around in the city. Several of them have other motives elsewhere with their backstories (reasons why they were traveling to Sargava in the first adventure), and freelancing for the Pathfinders doesn't interest them.
They're tired of random encounters, as they've already had two full adventures where they happen non-stop, but for as large as the city is, there isn't a lot of scripted encounters in the various districts. My group is traveling from building to building using a laminated copy of the poster map, and most of the time I have to either tell them how much time they've just wasted, or try to invent details about a culture that we've got precious little information about. Why not have a brief encounter list for each district? Just a list that a GM could expand on himself to describe the various things the PCs might stumble upon while walking through a district that should have hundreds of inhabitants but is strangely quiet.
Also, why isn't there some guidelines on what the other factions are doing? Just guidelines or recommendations to give us something to work with. I've been trying to work with them behind the scenes, but I've completely forgotten about the Free Captains.
I wouldn't complain if not for the complaints of my players. This adventure just isn't panning out as envisioned, and I'm trying to convince them to stick with it because I'm hoping that the last two adventures in Ilmurea, being more traditional dungeon crawls, will end the campaign on a high note.
And I know the players think I don't spend any time preparing for the game due to all the gaps in the adventure. I incorrectly drew a ziggurat last session so that the scale didn't make any bloody sense, and I had to redraw it, the entire affair wasting ten minutes of play time. Also, I fumbled a bit with Igzimora's fake backstory, as that was also not provided and I didn't think of some of the questions that the PCs would ask. It's frustrating and I want to strangle that player as I feel like I spend a good 5-6 hours a week prepping for the next adventure, but the adventure path doesn't do the DMs a lot of favors.
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So, just got back from my weekly session, and things went well. I still fumbled over some things behind the screen due to trying to juggle so much, but some of the quick fixes that I've been using have turned out to be incredibly effective, and the players don't have much complaint with that. They left feeling as if they really got things done.
Egzimora, who escaped last session after the fighter critted her massively, came back to exact her revenge. She Charmed Pezzock and led him off into the jungle and it was days before anyone realized he was missing. The Druid, being a complete bad-a, managed to track Pezzock to where Egzimora was holed up experimenting on him. The party killed the hag, rescued the tengu, and everyone was happy.
But Pezzock was there for days, and I think it'd be kinda cool if I could work that into his character. I've got him statted up as he occasionally accompanies the party and participates in combat. I was thinking of adding a template to him, something like the Plant-Infused Template, but not nearly as powerful. Any ideas?
Juliver's appearance may provide your group with a (from what it sounds like) much needed catalyst/direction goal to get them focused again.
(undead plague! Attacks every night! Our faction's hurting! we can't just let this keep happening! Then...Cure her up and discover the greater threat. etc.)
The party is still level 8, but I might spring Juliver a level early, in two sessions instead of the five sessions it'd probably take to hit level 10. Even if the party doesn't make it to the vaults, at least she can serve as an enigma for a while, a portent of things to come.
With my group having other factions taking actions that pissed them off was a great motivator. I know you've got the Sargavans asking for help but you could steal another idea from the boards and have them setting up proclamations regarding their authority over the city and give your player's someone to butt heads with.
Finding the Aspis folks carting off a statue or two from a disctrict that your players control might also give them a reason to stay and take charge.
What type of relationship does your party have with the Radiant Muse and her followers?
My party hasn't met or seen the Radiant Muse yet. One of my PCs took Leadership and picked up a Wind Oracle, though. I told that PC that his cohort's patron has been whispering for him to find the Radiant Muse, which was his reason for joining the Pathfinders and joining this expedition into Saventh-Yhi. I was thinking it would be kinda cool if the cohort's patron was another "Muse" from back in the day who really wants to make contact with the Radiant Muse and bring her around to aiding the party, but for reasons I haven't thought of yet, can't directly contact her.
I also dropped the name Radiant Muse during the party's fight with the Half-Fiend Dire Ape demon thing, but no one caught the reference, so I guess my PC's cohort hasn't made much of an impression on the PC. The cohort didn't catch the reference due to speaking in tongues and not understanding anything during combat. Since the baddie escaped during this combat, I was thinking it would be really cool if he made a reappearance after the party met the Radiant Muse to demonstrate just how powerful of an ally she is, but I'm afraid that might take the spotlight away from the PCs.
My party has four PCs:
Bishop, who has fled Varisia after exacting vengeance on his sister's rapists, and is now being pursued by Hell Knights who are set to arrive in about a week according to my timeline. Bishop wants to leave and get further away from the Hell Knights and any connection to his past, so in character Bishop is close to heading further South. Bishop is NG, though, and I know he'll stick around once Julliver reveals what's at stake.
Ellisar is an elf raised by two former slaves in the Shackles. He's returned to the Mwangi Expanse seeking the tribe his parents are from. He wants to leave to search further into the jungle, nothing besides loyalty to the party is keeping him around. I'm going to change the Tribe of the Radiant Muse to elves instead of humans, and say that they're the tribe he's looking for, under a new name. That'll tie him to Saventh-Yhi.
Strel is a gnome seeking evidence of his grandfather's exploits in the Mwangi Expanse. His grandfather discovered an artifact that teleported him to space briefly, which is where Strel has gained his sorcerer bloodline (Starsoul, I think). I've already revealed to him the real movers and shakers behind the artifact, which is a small army of daemons ready to invade from Aucturn the Stranger. I was going to tie the urdefhans from Book 5 into that plot line, though I haven't fully worked out the details yet. I hope I can keep Strel around until then, but it's all up to the party to convince the low WIS gnome not to teleport into outerspace.
And the last member is invested in the expedition as he's a replacement character and is a member of the Pathfinders. I'm actually going to kill off Amivor Glaur at the beginning of Book 4 and allow this character to become the new leader of the Pathfinder expedition as he didn't come with another backstory to tie into the campaign.
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I am taking the encounters in the districts very much as a guideline.
For example my players have so far:
Come to Saventh-Yi with the Pathfinders. They set up camp and explored most of the merchant district. I created a subplot about a long dead Azlanti skeleton being taken to the Chimeras lair (they like to chomp on skeletons) that was then to be put to rest. The players embraced that as their main story objective in the district.
Right after the district I introduced the pirates. The pirates were fighting with some of the apes from the military district, but also went to the pathfinders. They demanded equal share in any exploring. The pathfinders let the players handle the annoying pirate leader. Eventually they sort of made enemies and they'll get back to that. They have scouted out the pirate camp and are keeping an eye on it.
Meanwhile I had been giving visions to the life oracle about a big demon ape being 'born' in the military district. They checked out the island with the cleric with the stone salve. She escaped. They then circled around the military district and decided to skip to the residential district. That evening they saw the 'demon ape' fly above the military district. I'll get back to that.
In the residential district they were observed by vegepygmies, they killed the nightmare spider and eventually 'attacked' the russel mold and the vegepygmy chieftain at the obelisk. They managed a stand off eventually and awesome miming roleplay ensued (in my campaign vegepygmies don't quite talk). The players were able to convince the vegepygmies that the other factions would destroy their 'home' and they had to move. The vegepygmies are only willing to move to the 'tower'/manor of the 'evil lady' (aka the hag). Which I will be setting up as a nice 'go kill the hag and help the vegepygmies move' thing.
I will also be introducing the next faction, the aspis consortium soon.
I do feel like I am 'writing' much of the actual ongoing story. It has to make more sense to the players then just random encounters. So far they are really loving it.
Nothing I've thrown at my party so far as gotten them to like this adventure path. I'm really trying to tie in backstories and make the NPCs memorable and fun to interact with, but the players just aren't feeling it. I had one player today tell me he wouldn't really care if we stopped meeting because he was becoming bored of the adventure path, and even suggested I handwave all the plot stuff and let the players level up and just pick up the adventure path in the 5th module.
The issues they're having deal with character motivation and the lack of any plot. They see how things are tied together, but don't understand where the adventure path is going. They were frustrated with Smuggler's Shiv due to lack of resources. They were frustrated with Racing to Ruin for that same reason, plus the fact the entire module felt as if it were a connected series of random encounters. And right now they're frustrated with Saventh-Yhi because they don't feel as if they're working toward anything.
And are they? They were thinking the Discovery Points did something, but the first group to get to 120 gets...? 9600 exp and bragging rights? The party is allied with the Pathfinder Society and the Sargavan Government, the Red Mantis could care less about bragging rights, the Pirates are about to be wiped off the map by a sixth faction I've introduced (Hell Knights), and the Aspis Consortium becomes a non-factor almost immediately entering the 4th module. So the party wins by default. And their final reward is a pretty paltry 9600 exp, which they'll earn and split four ways probably around the time they hit level 12. It's meaningless!
I hate to continue posting in here with nothing positive to say, but I feel as if Paizo cheated me out of my promised adventure path. This module had so much potential, and I feel it's largely wasted. How about a few pages of random maps we could use in some of the encounter areas? How about instead of an article on Juju, we get an article on ancient Azlanti culture, along with a list of 100 cool discoveries the PCs can make while exploring Saventh-Yhi, instead of expecting the GM to pull imaginative and interesting tidbits out of thin air? The last AP I ran was Rise of the Runelords, where I did half as much work behind the screen during the week, and the party had twice as much fun.
Luckily my party reached the Julliver encounter this week, and are progressing into the 4th module, a bit ahead of schedule, but I'm going to award some bonus exp to make up for it. They fought and stomped Sozothala this week, partly due to party tactics, and partly because I probably drew an encounter area map that was really unfavorable to the enemies. A Wall of Fire incinerated half the undead, and the fighter could 1-hit KO the rest while doing minimum damage, and with a Haste spell, he cleared the room in two rounds. Due to a selection of spells with a range of close and a central dome that was 150 feet in diameter, Sozothala managed to launch a lightning bolt, two magic missiles, and a nat 1 on a single attack with Vampiric Touch before he was obliterated due to concentrated fire of return lightning bolts, flame strikes, and a hasted, flying fighter. But, the party had fun, and thought the session went very well.
In fact, due to Julliver's big reveal of information, plus all the hints I've been dropping of Ilmurea (which the party thought was another plane, a creature, and an item all at different times), I think the party feels as if they've got some direction. One of my players told me that he was excited for next week, which was the first time that's happened since the party arrived in Saventh-Yhi some 8 or 9 sessions ago. I'm pumped that they're pumped, so I'm hoping the second half of this adventure path, with all it's awesome dungeon crawls and slightly less sandbox-y feel, keeps my group interested a bit longer.
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Martyn,
I agree with all the issues you've been expressing. Seven Spears is the worst product that I've seen come out of Paizo - the entire thing is a poorly designed sandbox that lacks the cohesion or support to DM easily.
The utter lack of maps is extremely frustrating and the lack of real, important information to give out for discovery points was bad as well.
Worse, is most of the "major" encouters are either underpowered or too dangerous. This combined with the enforced calendar of several months of adventuring means that the PC's are full powered at almost every major battle because they are afraid to fight anything but the boring, boring wandering monsters and guards without full prep. Fully prepped a party of the appropriate level rolls over almost everything in the book.
As a DM it is exhausting to manufacture so much content within what is supposed to be an out-of-the-box prudoct, but fortunately I have a good group of players who have tried to take the slog with grace and enjoyment. The heavily manufactured "hook" with Julliver should come in a couple more sessions - fortunately the party chose Pathfinders and I should be able to use that to leverage them forward.
I'm hoping that the next installment is easier to deal with.
I heavily re-worked the story of the AP for my campaign. Here are brief descriptions of some of the changes I have made:
1. I reduced the number of factions from day 1. The only ones that exist are:
-Pathfinders
-Free Captains
-Sargavans2. My players decided early on to join the Pathfinders and I made the following changes to the AP:
- Juliver and Eando are no longer part of the story. I edited them out completely. Instead, Amivor Glaur (the PF expedition leader) is the main NPC for the AP after Smugglers Shiv. Amivor is actually Isillar the serpent-folk in disguise (much like the first Serpentfolk from SS). Issilar is impersonating Amivor to use the expertise of the Pathfinders to find Saventh Yi (in my campaign he was never there) and explore it with a group of humans under his control.
- During the journey to Tazion the PCs quickly get separated from the PF expedition and spend the majority of the journey trying to find them again. They find bits and pieces of them (literally) as the in disguise Amivor is marching them without mercy to Tazion, even occasionally eating some of them. I reduced the journey to Tazion to about 25 days and made it more of a race to save the Pathfinders then a race to Tazion.
- The Intellect Devourers in Saventh Yi have already infiltrated the Free captains and are controlling them as they move toward Saventh Yi as well. The ID are using them as vessels to explore Saventh Yi to look for a way to defeat the various enemies below including the SF. They know the Azlanti defeated the SF years ago with some kind of "weapon" in Saventh Yi and are looking for it to use themselves.
- The Sargavans are infiltrated by the Aboleths and are searching for their companion in the lakes of Saventh Yi. He has been able to get word to his "homeland" about his discoveries in Saventh Yi and is eager to share what he has learned with his people.
- Since Issilar is impersonating Amivor, where is the REAL Amivor? Well he is captive in the SF city below Saventh Yi and will...
Those are some cool ideas Cibet. My only concern is that having all the factions controlled by evil monsters may make the PCs feel like they were screwed no matter which faction they decided to choose. Why did you decide to take out the other remaining factions?
Also, I like how you are using the IDs in a more subtle way than they did in Thousand Fangs Below, as it was pretty disappointing to me that they pretty much just became run of the mill monsters in that AP.
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Martyn,
I agree with all the issues you've been expressing. Seven Spears is the worst product that I've seen come out of Paizo - the entire thing is a poorly designed sandbox that lacks the cohesion or support to DM easily.
The utter lack of maps is extremely frustrating and the lack of real, important information to give out for discovery points was bad as well.Worse, is most of the "major" encouters are either underpowered or too dangerous. This combined with the enforced calendar of several months of adventuring means that the PC's are full powered at almost every major battle because they are afraid to fight anything but the boring, boring wandering monsters and guards without full prep. Fully prepped a party of the appropriate level rolls over almost everything in the book.
As a DM it is exhausting to manufacture so much content within what is supposed to be an out-of-the-box prudoct, but fortunately I have a good group of players who have tried to take the slog with grace and enjoyment. The heavily manufactured "hook" with Julliver should come in a couple more sessions - fortunately the party chose Pathfinders and I should be able to use that to leverage them forward.
I'm hoping that the next installment is easier to deal with.
I have only read CoSS, not DM'ed it, but I agree with people saying that this is a weak AP volume that serves mostly as a bare bones framework on which to build an actual adventure.
I don't think paizo should take all of the blame for this one though, because as I understand it James Jacobs and Rob McCreary were brought on to salvage this AP after the original author failed to deliver and by that time it was too late to order the maps.
Still to be fair, I have to say that there was some pretty cool ideas in CoSS. For instance, I really liked the Angazhan plot around freeing Olujimi and also the aboleth sending out explorers into Saventh-Yhi made for an interesting mystery.
Honestly, from reading through the entire adventure path, CoSS stirred my imagination way more than Racing to Ruin, but that adventure had some decent maps and I can see how on a practical level, "maps" beats "no maps" any day of the week.
Makes sense, and I really like what you suggest in point #2.
So my PCs started by trying to take over the Military District, and I would like some advice on how to handle the ramifications of their actions.
First let me give a brief description of what happened:
They ran into a Charau-Ka patrol, and captured one of them, killing the rest. Through magic and skill use they figured out that Olujimi was in the Fort.
They advanced into the Fort, the infiltration of which was fairly easy because from the description the Anghazani only kept his dominated dire Apes as guards. They subdued them quickly, and then had a vicious battle with Olujini who almost killed them. They got lucky and killed the bad guy before he escaped.
The cut off Olujimi's head, using as proof they were tough, based on the information they had on Charua-ka who respect the Mighty. I has them advance into the plaza and once again through skill, lucky rolls and magic, they tamed the Girallons and called the Charua-ka forward to bend the knee.
I had the Charau-ka set up a parley, and they went looking for their shaman to talk to the PCs. The Shaman, after hearing the news, freed the Demon with the Salve.
The PCs were informed that the Shaman and the new Leader would meet with them at the Spear. The rest of the Charau-ka, torn between Grogunoth (sp?) and the PCs, decided to stay neutral and watch what unfolded.
The Half-fiend Dire Ape proved formidable, and it took every last ounce of the Players resources to survive. The Shaman and Half-fiend were able to escape.
The session ended with the PCs holding the Spear, the Demon Ape fleeing with the Shaman.
Now I need to decide how the Charau-ka tribe reacts. The PCs of course are now dreaming of using monkey armies. I am of course loathe to allow them to, considering that the Charua-ka should be a head-ache to control.
I'm also wondering what the Half-fiend will do. My players hate when NPCs get away, but I'm not sure where the Half-fiend Ape would go to try and build an army.
Any ideas?
The Charau-ka may bend the knee but they will expect to be led to conquest and pillage. Perhaps they have one who speaks for them and asks to attack the farming district or the temple district or perhaps a group of them sneaks off and raids the artisan district, bringing back some slaves and some dead humans to eat.
Impress upon your characters that the Charau-ka are really just a murderous swarm of chaos. Your group may prefer to send them off into the jungle.
One of my players is playing a Charau-ka monk. (A misfit who preferred order and structure and was cast out because of it.) There could be a few misfits that want to stay with the party and adopt their way of thinking. The party gets a monkey swat team and you have a lot less monkeys to deal with.
The half fiend could head to whatever place it is that the Gorilla King is from. He can either come back as the Gorrila King's champion or end up dead at the hands of the Gorrilla King or become the new Gorilla King.
Have fun.
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Grogonoth(again, spelling?) was imprisoned in the first place by the Radiant Muse in the Artisan District. I believe it mentions that he very much wants revenge. He is not beholden to the charau-ka shaman at all and would probably only keep her alive if he felt it would do him any good.
I would say that Grogonoth might set up the Shaman to regain control over the charau-ka, thus removing your monkey surplus issue. The monkeys would like be drawn to his might, love of destruction, and general ape-like appearance over the pinkskinned humans. After gaining the loyalty of the Charau-ka, Grogonoth would probably use them to strike at the humans in the Artisan district to weakened the Radiant Muse's allies and draw her into a confrontation. I would switch the radiant muse's request from killing the vyrkolakas to defeating Grogonoth probably once she became aware that he was free.
These are great ideas. I was already thinking of having the Charau-ka splinter off and start in-fighting, as some wanted to back off, others become followers of the Party, and finally another larger group leave and join the shaman with Gruganoth.
Those that back off and leave end up contacting the Gorilla King and bringing him to Savnth-Yhi.
I liek the idea of the Demon ape atatcking humans, and changing the Radiant Muses quest (or adding to it :D).
Just letting you all know that I have created a word document that contains 120 discoveries (bits of info) that can be found in the city. It uses the ten headings of historical discoveries as noted on page 10 of the module.
A lot of it is as I have made up from reading the first three modules (I like to read ahead only one module at a time) so the information in the discoveries are from what I understand and a bit of fiction that I have added (particularly around the legend of Savith herself).
If you want a copy email me at m.knights AT bigpond.com
We will e heading into the City of Seven Spears in the next couple of sessions :)
My email has changed unfortunately. You can now email me at mark.knights AT gmail.com
How did they manage to do the last 50 or so hit points of damage to Olujimi in one round? With his spell resistances and elemental resistances, that would have to be one hell of a lot of damage! Want to know so I can try to avoid that with my party.
Didn't last long with mine either...
My party hit him with slow, that all but did it.
Main fighter (archer) challenged him for leadership. Olujimi came out to accept challenge. The Rest of the party flying over ahead unleashes hell in the Surprise round (aka, Ninja Sneak Attack, Curse-by-Familiar, and Slow)
Round 1, his initiative tanks. Archer pelts him, Ninja pelts him, Wiz one misses spell, wiz 2 obsidian flows him. (Now SLOWED and In Difficult terrain. if he "runs" he makes it in the door or halfway to fighter. Dimension Door time...fails concentration check.
Round 2, let us just say he died...
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Ah, okay, I would have just had him not try to use dimension door defensively, and taken the attacks of opportunity, which would negate ranged attacks, but then he wouldn't have had to make the concentration check. From the sound of the combat there, there wasn't much in melee range, so minimal aoo's. I'll avoid that tactical snafu.
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Ah, okay, I would have just had him not try to use dimension door defensively, and taken the attacks of opportunity, which would negate ranged attacks, but then he wouldn't have had to make the concentration check. From the sound of the combat there, there wasn't much in melee range, so minimal aoo's. I'll avoid that tactical snafu.
*smack
I didn't have to make the concentration check did I...
*sigh...
you GM...you learn. Thanks
Please help!
We will be starting CoSS next week, and my group has adamantly refused to join any of the factions. The players are extremely wily (2 have been playing for 35 years, one for 30, and the baby of the group has been playing for 9 years).
On Smuggler's Shiv, they worked hard at keeping all the NPCs alive, and developed close ties with Sasha and Jask, but they didn't tell any of them about the Temple of Zura or what they found there.
Once they reached Eledor, they tried to keep all of their experiences quiet, but almost as soon as they arrived in port, Gelik let the entire city know about *his* exploits on the Shiv.
When the factions started approaching the PCs, they became paranoid (even the PC who had ties to the Consortium), and they left in the middle of the night, just hours after researching the route to Tazion. At that point, the other factions were still, at minimum, one week away from being able to leave, giving the PCs a giant head start.
They made friends with Athyra (incredible Diplomacy roll),warned her about the approaching "armies," and suggested ways that she could slow them down (felling trees in their path, etc.). the PCs then collapsed the exit to the Salt Mine, disallowing anyone from using the shortcut.
After killing the chemosits for the villagers, they told them about the approaching "armies" and, with another incredible Diplomacy roll, convinced them to retreat to the jungle (and hide all their food), so that the armies wouldn't be able to restock their provisions.
During their 3 day stay in Kalabuto, the ranger made contact with the Aspis, and promised to leave trail signs for them to follow, however, the oracle, in disguise, overheard the plans, and spent the rest of the journey erasing the ranger's trail signs and creating false ones.
Despite the fact that a couple Pathfinders from Kalabuto aided them in their fight against some extremely beefed-up Mzali warriors, the PCs still refused to align themselves with them.
During the final stage of the journey, the rest of the trailblazer groups fell even further behind, due to flash floods, disease, and false trail signs, so the PCs arrived in Tazion a full two weeks before the next closest group.
In Tazion, the PCs managed to kill every single charau-ka (amazing tactics involving a flying zombie succubus ringing the eloko bell while circling around the tar lake). They stone idols are dust, and the half-orc barbarian sundered the map with her earthbreaker.
In order to minimize the chance of someone being able to follow them, they plan on levitating to the trees and then brachiating for as long as possible, only dropping to the ground when they reach water. With a two week head start, and a shattered map, it would seem deus ex machina for any of the factions to be able to follow them.
Out of character, I informed them about the camp rules in CoSS, as well as the benefits that a camp could provide them, such as the ability to get magic items via the Supply score, or the ability to go exploring without worrying that something will come along and destroy their camp while they are gone. I flat-out told them that having a faction will be *very* important in the later books, but they are still adamant that they do not want to join a faction.
From reading the messageboards, I understand that most of the fun from this module involves interaction between the factions. Given their precautions, how can I plausibly have the factions show up to a city that has been hidden for so long? How can I adjudicate their defense of their camp?
Please help!