Tactical Drongo's page

forbid everyone from using phones between the turns

you said you dont want that but that seems to be the biggest culprit

they should make a quick sheet for important stuff around their character, the gm should know the ohter stuff
the only one with unlimted time to look stuff up should be the gm

the players *should* know what their characters can do
there *should* be no need to have the phone in hand outside of the turn

watching what actually happens in the combat is rather important to make good tactical decisions and planning your turn during your allies and enemies turns can speed up the process by a lot

I am usually gm and I have an iron rule of no phones during the sessions
there are players with tablets for pdfs, but that is only character sheets and rule related stuff
I drill my players in the rules, making them remember the stuff that is important (for their characters, everything else is bonus)

of course I dont collect phones before the sessions, theres always reasons for breaks, research and of course emergency calls
but during the session as long as the party is not split (which I also avoid whenever possible) No phone

it is the biggest distraction that can be around and even if you want to use it just for rules, people tend to drift off as soon as they got it in their hands

for people who want to have a summary

Ronald the rules lawyer has madde an analysis and talks about his thoughts

the first thing you miss: this is an optional rule, you are technically in homebrew territorry so RaW and RaI are all a bit malleable

but as someone who plays dual class regulary I would say if a feat is from one specific class, ot uses that class' dc

as a counterpoint, there are feats which let you choose 'your class or spell dc whichever is higher', those are an exception, but not necessarily one that shuts down the argument

in the end its all gm fiat

Honestly, I don't think it makes as much sense for the Impossible playtest to actually be about the Impossible Lands, mostly because we just got an Impossible Lands Lost Omens book not long ago.

More realistically, I lean on it being a book on magic in genera; and a successor toward Secrets of Magic. And the addition of Necromancer leaves room for it to include a lot of Book of the Dead content.

this ispretty much what I expect for the impossible magic reveal

Tridus wrote:

Start recording every d20 roll he makes to see if it's actually this bad. If it is, change dice.

I can suggest "The Dark Eye", "Das Schwarze Auge" in German - you have to roll low to succeed there.

We sometimes "promoted" D&D-dice to DSA-dice or vice versa - sometimes even threatening to do so helped!

Don't suggest that xD

the fifth edition suffers from gameyfication, the fourth is a slog to work through and if you are even remotely getting used to the dynamic three action system from pathfinder the combat will be a slog too

and people who complain that blaster casters are not very good or lasting in pathfinder, never had to manage their mp (or AsP - Astral Points) in DSA :P

Oh I agree but flavor is what's holding him down. He wants to punch fire which is very niche and generally not that great. However long term the problem is just the fact he can not roll above a 10 reliably. Our DM checked his rolls in the last 3 sessions. Also our sustainability might not be that great but I was building to have some healing capability The Radiant Epithet and potentially Oracle Nudge the Scales is very useful to keep this party alive.

As for the speed, I have no idea why he wants to move more then 50ft per movement action. I suppose though with his insane speed he even makes Sudden Charge less impactful lol.

that sounds like he needs a new dice

otherwise I think his setup does actually sound not that bad, its not the strongest instinct but still does decent damage and the difference to the strong ones shouldnt make that much of a difference in feeling
of course, with the stance he technically trades down damage, while its still a very good stance the d8 is ... well, many barbarians do d10 or even d12
but then it is again not so much that it makes a huge difference

maybe also tell your gm that he should throw him a bone
make a chase, make enemies that take cover in bigger distance where he has to cqc fight somewhere

but if it really comes down to his 'bad luck' with dice, well then there is never anything that will change it because of the system balance
someone really ought to make a balance change for the dice to be sure

I really wonder what he wants to achieve with being that fast

and I am also a bit worried about the sutainability of the group

I also don't quite understand WHY he is not feeling belonging in the group
Does he in his perception not do enough damage? (imo not a point for that)
Maybe a second barbarian is just not quite right?
or is there something else going around?

I'll just give each paragraph a number to make the analysis easier

1) well, got to try to figure things out, but the 'more reliable' then saves is something few will agree, partially because on a save spell you still get effect on a miss

2) that is *exactly* what you are supposed to do and what recall knowledge checks are premier for, finding which save to target and then - boom

3) another problem 'fixed' with a successful recall knowledge

4) strengths and weaknesses of the spell lists - and I guess bad luck for kineticists, but they still have an attack more reliable then casters

5) that is by design, there are monsters with a difference of 6 between the different saving throws (possibly more, those were found with a spontaneous find) and saving throws can on top be weakened with conditions (the easiest being fear, but many others possible like clumsy, drained, stupefied) if you *then* still put boni on top it gets wild

5.1) hero points are a bit lackluster in base variation, since it can vastly vary how generous gms are with those and they are an emergency survival option I wouldnt *exactly) count them

6) and some enemies have physical resistance and you dont hear martials bringing that up every discussion :P
balance can be wonky but its the job of the gm to adjust on the fly should it be to extreme - and of course, when you know the course of a campaign choosing your spells wisely goes a long way

7) good rant, I hope my points make sense to you
you will surely get limited agreement from some people, but I also think I have covered many of the counterarguments already

stupid question but:
what happens if you recover from drained outside of resting? Do you get the hitpoints (current and max) back?
because I just yesterday read about the bloodrager and it feels...dangerous to play (i know, the temp hp are probably supposed to be a buffer before the drained 'Damage')

I would really love a BG3 with pathfinder

there are a few pathfinder games out there but their scale is a few levels at best if they stick close to the rules

I played BG3, but after playing pathfinder2e for so long I couldnt get halfway through the first act because at every gods forsaken corner I stumbled over 5e and thought to myself 'that would work so much smoother in pathfinder'
not to mention that larian did some homebrewing and aimed the campaign to end at lvl 12 because of the technical limitations of the system

ffs please make a pathfinder game, it works the whole level range!
and you get more then one choice in defining your build!
and you dont have to decide between attributes and feats!
and...

I could rant on for a quite a bit
I heard that larian has 2 games in the work, which are both their thing, which I get after being annoyed with wotc

Yes +12 is correct. But I'm not satisfied, can I do more?

lower your standards so the game doesnt get boring with normal scaled encounters

I have an idea what could also work

there are some feats that scale with level and other requirements (first that come to mind are kineticist impulses, but also extra lore)

if the baseline of the companion would be slightly better and we add feats that improve over time, we could reduce the number of feats required and smooth out the progression

like that we could spend 1-2 feats to have a decent companion and a third one to carry it into the endgame, with autmatic stat bumps at certain key levels so it doesnt fall off quite as much

I wonder what kind of enemies OP has to fight that they consistently seem to have their shields with maxed runes breaking quick enough to validate backup shield with a full rune on it

WatersLethe wrote:

I like it just fine. You get reliable access to a shield that you can use for blocking, no matter what loot drops or what shops or crafting are available. That extra point of hardness on an already Sturdy shield is gravy.

Also, blocking three strikes in a battle covers most battles, no? Not only is that a decent amount of damage mitigated, you also have your main class feature competing for the same reaction resource.

Anyway, looks like a matter of taste to me.

In my opinion It really doesn't, a champion with shield of reckoning and reactive shield should AT LEAST use two shields blocks every turn, and if you're not using viking's second shield then you're not gonna last more than three rounds.

Also, +1 hardness Is... Pathetically useless, with all due respect It could've been taken out completely

while I have also mixed feelings towards the new shield ally, this looks a loot like whiteroom mathematics

then again, with your last answer it feels also like your opinion is set in stone and you are going to ignore most, if not all, of the arguments presented here

There seems to be nothing on paper that indicates either way

My instinct would say no since the engraving of essential runes is mentioned within the discription of the keepsake as a specific thing that can be done which might not be valid otherwise

My feeling as gm says: go for it, talismans are not that big of a deal anyway and some on a case by case basis might be incompatible or just dont work by default

In the end its the decision of whatever gm you are playing with

I think the main problem is that the OP thinks of 'Tanks' in mmo turns and not in tabletop terms

being able to get hit by all the enemies in an encounter standing upright, mitigating damage and forcing them to 'waste' their action on the character while the healer pumps lifepoints into them

YuriP is a regular here, shouldnt take tooooo long :P

after the digital paizocon events theres likely an update

TBF, in Golarion Katanas are pretty much the Pop culture weapon :P

On the topic

You have two possibilities, you opt for a Katana or you opt for a 'Katana'

The first one will not go with monk, but there are still plenty good options to play
Monk is a class with high unarmed defense and mobility, you likely won't get that quite as easy and theres only one class which rivals it in unarmed defense. Unfortunately unarmored defense is a bad idea with a Katana - you can easily opt for medium, maybe for light if you watch yout skill points.

So, lets head for the options:
-Fighter has the highest attack and feats to support whatever you want to do with the Katana
-Exemplar is a bit complicated to play for a beginner, but imo a very fun class and you can get a 'flurry of blows' with one of the ikons (gleaming blade)
-Ranger with Precision edge maximizes your damage, while flurry edge helps with multiple attack penalty, depending on what you prefer
-interestingly, if you take the Ruffian Racket Rogue you can one-handed use a katana and make sneak attacks, while you can two-hand it against everything where sneak attacks dont work - or you can take the avenger archetype to lock on and and always sneak attack with katana no matter how many hands
-Champion, especially of Shizuru, works well with a Katana, even if the support is not *that* great, but you will be beloved by your party
-Magus with the Inexorable Iron study will also have a good time wearing a katana and will absolutely destroy with crits

for multiclasses you could take up:
Monk - for the mobility
Duelist - for one-handed combat
Mauler - for two-handed combat

Now, if you want to go for a 'Katana' instead of a Katana you get a lot of extra options
-Monk is back on the Menu, the nine ring broadsword was mentioned, the elven curve blade would also work, but you wont likely find any finesse weapon with the two-hand trait
-The swashbuckler makes for an interesting option two, especially if you are looking for a sword saint style character -> imagine having panache as having the iajutsu stance ready and its a great fit
-other rogue and magus archetypes will work too and most of them will be great fun

I am with the others on this one. If the Priest in a actual faithful of Shelyn, the Champion is well in his rights to slap him and send him on a repentance quest later on.

Now if the priest is maybe a cultist in disguise and would get his powers from somewhere else and sets this all up as a sacrifice for whichever dark entity he serves, it would ... not inherently change a lot. The priest would still need to be awefully convincing and have a lot of (secret) followers and the champion would be even more so in the right to put him in his place.

Not to mention that all the potential lower priests there should back up the champion and most people would side with him too, rather saving their lives.

The only way the scenario could work out is if the priest actually has a notable part of the city already under his thrall in some sort of enchantment or mental corruption.

Well, I don't want to claim that my suggestion is the ultimate solution
I think I have a decent enough grasp on the balance, but there are surely many players who can do that better

I see the problems that Teridax notes, there has to be some sort of differentiation between non-damage and damage spells, I forgot for a second how easily one could 'abuse' the hitting for some spells

although with the action investment and little other opportunity to reliably land spells, maybe that is what the magi need (?)

I know the errata is mostly a fix for the reduction in attack spell (hence why I put the 'remaster' in the title in quotations)

I really love the class from the concept and it opens so many cool concepts, but it plays a bit clunky and the remaster did not really help

With the last errata pass the Magus can finally use non-attack spells for their Spellstrike. (with the AoE effects and the like put behind Expansive Spellstrike)
But the enemy still has to save regulary against the attack.

IMO
that just does not go far enough
This detracts from the dynamic use of Spellstrike and makes the save spells not very fun to use it with the spellstrike.

You still use two actions for the spell and one for the attack, you only can upgrade the whole process with a focus point - and you don't always have the conflux spell at hand that would be best suited for the situation.

One loses range and the advantage of making an attack roll spellstrike while having to contend with the lower saving throw *AND* making the class more MAD. Not everybody wants their magus to be intelligent, with the reduced number of attack spells they now have to contend with lower saving throw *and* having only a secondary attribute for the spells.

Considering all that I suggest: The Magus should treat saving throw spells as attack spells.
Critically hitting the enemy, acts as the critical failure of the saving throw
regular hitting, makes the spell as if the saving throw is regulary failed
Regular hit - well, either the spell goes poof (which would be a tradeoff I am willing to pay) or it acts as if the enemy was successful at the saving throw
which incidently would lessen the pain of just having wasted up to 3 actions without getting anything for it. (The decision between that I would rather leave up to discussion)

Although, once I used a really pretty pebble that I felt represented my character well.

Okay there is a story here and I am curious. As a corvid I want to hear all about the pretty pebble hero.

Like the Common language on Eox is Eoxian, the Common Language in Russia is Russian. These are both places your Pathfinder character could go (or maybe even be from).

I dare say the common in pathfinder is more akin to english in europe/north-america

Tactical Drongo wrote:

where do you take it from that pharasma endorses such contracts?

She does maybe not care in particular about them - because that only makes your soul take another route to oblivion
In the end, the stream of souls continues unburdened

The difference is that (lets go with the devil magic powers) whoever did sell their soul ends up as asmodeus pawn or fuel for a while, after which everything continues as it would have anyway

Pharasma doesnt forbid those contracts because they have little to no influence on the penultimate outcome
But it is hard to imagine that she endorses them
(I mean, I could see why she would do it, if the soul goes straight to hell she doesn't have to deal with it)

She considers soul contracts valid reason to claim the soul, even when the ethos of the mortal does not match the plane. (I'm guessing this is why souls start their time in hell being tortured, great way to make people super evil) Her direct agents hand these mortals to devils and gods for promises made by mortals during their life. That's what it means to officially endorse something like that. If she did not endorse slavery, all those contracts would be considered invalid in her court and ignored.

Note that this entire notion of respecting contracts over matching soul ethos does absolutely throw the true importance of ethos matching into question. If souls can be made to align after they arrive, that invalidates a whole lot of the supposed "need" for the current system's methods.

We also know thanks to Belcora, that one can promise the soul of another to a devil in exchange for ___. Anyone with physical control of another person (like their child) could literally hand that person to the devil, claim the reward, and end the contract.

Considering something or straightout endorsing it are still two different things. Do you have a direct source on the Psychopomps delivering those souls? I was always under the impression that, since they are marked to go to a specific place anyway no interference was required.

The important thing of pharasma is tha souls go to a place they can reasonably be to 'live out' their existance and become quintessence by some point. Her point of view is probably like 'well, you made a deal to go there, so you go there' while for everybody else she takes care of the service that they go where it would fit best.

And looking up Belcorra - I admit to not knowing the AP - seems to be a unique cultist/ghost. A unique adversary who does really bad things on a (comparatively) small scale has little influence on the general dealing of things.
But a unique cultist/ghost who does some really f***ed up stuff is an excellent plothook and adversary for a group of players.
And she was ultimately defeated by a group of adventurers, so there was little actual damage done

where do you take it from that pharasma endorses such contracts?

She does maybe not care in particular about them - because that only makes your soul take another route to oblivion
In the end, the stream of souls continues unburdened

The difference is that (lets go with the devil magic powers) whoever did sell their soul ends up as asmodeus pawn or fuel for a while, after which everything continues as it would have anyway

Pharasma doesnt forbid those contracts because they have little to no influence on the penultimate outcome
But it is hard to imagine that she endorses them
(I mean, I could see why she would do it, if the soul goes straight to hell she doesn't have to deal with it)

reading to this it feels like Trip has taken personal offense to Pharasma existing

while the old lady is just sitting there, doing her job, basically not bothering anyone

Tactical Drongo wrote:

I have 2 times guns and gears in my downloads, but none of them is remastered

Hav you tried downloading the new one? My remastered copy didn't say it was remastered, but downloading the new version showed it was the remastered PDF.

multiple times now, both the same (non-remastered) pdf

I have 2 times guns and gears in my downloads, but none of them is remastered

my complaint is still that you have to build a caster character with limited defensive ability and light armor proficiency into a strength character, since (almost) all the listed weapons of the feat are strength based

so if you go that path you have to build around it from the start, be very squishy in be beginning of the campaign and have to invest additional feats to make it work in the first place

I agree with ElementalofCuteness that it is kind of a trap, maybe a soft one, not a dead end for the character, but to make it work you have to jump through some hoops, endure a phase of squishyness and invest extra feats to be able to wear proper armor

amalgam_81 wrote:

Kalaam wrote:

Crossing fingers for a SoM one too lol

Though very curious to see what might change

The odds of Secrets of Magic getting a reprint in its current state are low. Considering:

1. Several pages of lore regarding the old D&D schools of magic that are no longer valid.

2. Several of the options presented in the book have been reprinted in other books:
- Elementalist got reprinted in RoE
- Runelord is set to appear in Rival Academies
- Several spells got reprinted across Player Core and Player Core 2.

If they have to replace the reprinted/OGL content, we would be looking at a completely different book.

Then again, what do I know?

I don't know, but something tells me because so much of the Secrets of Magic material has already been incorporated into the Core books, is it possible the upcoming "Impossible" book might not contain just the two new classes we are playtesting, but also might contain remastered versions of the Magus and Summoner? I mean if a remaster of SoM is redundant, it would make more sense to incorporate them in the new book, especially since we have no idea what the book is about except possibly Impossible Lands, which themselves are excellent areas where Magus and Summoner might hail from

I had that thought too, since that book is already magically themed, incorporating the remastered magus and summoner would be a good place there

I think the main problem with racial weapons is that there are too few weapons that are actually worth it

If I play a spellcaster, I am going to rely mostly on my magic (I know not everybody does that, but I know that there ought to be some people agreeing)

If I am a martial I most likely got proficiency anyway (with alchemist being the one exception to the rule - ancestral weapon training is great for all alchemists except maybe the bomber)

If I want advanced weapons then the feats are not going to help me in most cases anyway (thats why at some point I homebrewed a bunch of weapons for most ancestries, many were advanced - but I ran out of steam in the process)

Except for your go-to theme (which imo fits the grandeur cause best) theres really not much to go on about with your setup here

It really is all possible and valid options depending on how you focus your character
give us a bit more about how you imagine the character

Str and Dex are both Valid, bot causes are good and fitting, all of the ancestries and the domain spells are desna approved anyway

I remembered the Cultivator archetype
It needs occultism which you got anyway, gives some interesting (if sometimes situational) focus spells, can give you (with some stamina) 3 skill feats for the price of one, has self-healing and gives you a path to immortality

First off - don't let your friends talk you into anything you don't like

Secondly - I have not played a warpriest myself, but I can give some GM perspecitve insight and thoughts

now to the topic at hand

Warpriest certainly has some small problems juggling the actions between proper attacking, movement and casting spell
but then again, if you go for a cloistered cleric you have to juggle your healing and other spells
with a decent weapon and the attributes to back it up you have a new third action option

Attacks of opportunity are dangerous of course, but so are they for the magus - and in the end something that is really heavily dependent on the gm
it should be something you could Recall Knowledge about and if you feel like 3/4 of all enemies are using AoO you should possibly talk to your gm

restorative strike should be of good value if your party (and you) properly consider tactics - flanking is easy and should be done whenever there in an opportunity
(that being said, 2 action heal is for immediate healing the strongest option, it is a tactical tool, not the go-to as you probably guessed)

as for weapons who are (imo) decent for warpriest, come with a god and support the playstyle

-Bladed Scarf has a lot of traits for maneuvers and is supported by Ashava and Sivanah
-Bo Staff gives you parry as additional option and is Sun Wukongs chosen bludgeon
-Glaive is also given by the lady of the north star, but forceful is not a very good trait if you are not a full martial or action starved (talk with your gm, the Naginata would work as variant glaive maybe)
-The Guisarme is the favored Weapon of Saloc, a psychopomp usher (those usually work well for good campaigns too)
-With Deadly simplicity the longspear offered by Lubaiko becomes a bit more interesting, although she might not be compatible with every campaign
-The Ranseur is availible to followers of the sarkorian stag mother of the forests and stones
-while not very good damage wise, the wip is a decent support weapon with a number of useful traits

this is from an incomplete list as the relatively new divine mysteries adds some more options for Halberds, Longspear, whips, Meteor hammer and others I have surely not seen spontaneously

really depends on the weapon, but I would say most weapons that dont have moving parts are completely safe if you are unseen
-> remember kids, if your sword actuall goes 'shwing' when you draw it, its time to replace the scabbard

if you want to ambush someone crossbows should probably be pre-cranked and pulling a bow is usually rather silent too
(and the ammo can be silenced in the quiver with enough padding)

but good luck staying completely silent with an (unmodified) spiked chain

I would also say that if the weapon you draw is larger then your cover, you should rething if you can properly hide behind it and if it should be drawn already at that point
i.e. the above mentioned javelin, if you duck behind a crate and have it lengthswise ready, it can be stealthy

moving away from weapons (and items in general)
I agree that purely mental actions (the not magically enhanced kind at least) wont give you away

beyond that, it really does depend on the circumstances and judgements should be made by the gm with a measure of logical thinking and good faith towards the characters and the players ideas

You could take up the undead master archetype to get an 'animal companion' level undead you can order around for 1 action

if you like to dig deep for your bones you might pick up archeologist and learn a few things to deal with ruins, traps and dead societies

dandy is another fun archetype if you want to add a social layer to your character
gossip lore is a fun feat and we know most necromancers like to dress in style

if you are a bone or flesh necromancer you could consider exorcist
helping spirits and souls to move on while immediately recycling their bones

of course, werecreatures or undead archetypes are always working in some way

More weapons and maybe a section on how to design weapons (and how some of the more mind-boggling designs come together balance wise)

and lots and lots of archetypes

hopefully at least *one* that lets you specialize in an advanced weapon without it being cut to specifically that weapon

Tactical Drongo wrote:

This goes in the category of topics where logical and critical thinking should be applied

as said above, even its considered an injury and not contact poison, applying them to unarmed attacks is a recipe for disaster

claws? chip a nail on your enemies armor and you are poisoned

Nick yourself while applying poison to a sword? Have it run off and get onto your exposed skin? Have some of it splash off into your eyes while you're swinging that weapon around at full speed? (Especially since with a feat it can already splash onto an adjacent target!)

This isn't just a thing that applies to unarmed attacks. I mean, is the idea that I can apply poison to claws that can kill things wearing plate armor really so much more unbelievable than the idea that I can safely apply poison to a sword in two seconds in the middle of combat?

This just doesn't feel like that big a deal to me considering how much of what the Alchemist can already do feels well outside what "critical thinking" would suggest is actually possible. It's a fantastical game, after all.

I guess it's, as so often, a matter of perception

I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to apply poison mid battle without wearing some durable leather gloves to reduce the risk
(and alchemists are among the prime candidates to wear goggles)

and having the poison on weapons to pierce armor or go for weak points seems more believable then claws

working regulary with sharp tools, more or less dangerous chemicals and protective gear of different kind in my job (luckily not that often) marks the difference between our, lets call it cutoff points, drastically different

Now, as the title says I am wondering if anyone can help me out. I find that having so many options for players to choose from has caused some issues in my games. I'd really like to pare down to as few books as possible to get away from all the choice bloat (and power creep) that comes when there are just so many books. I am not trying to gimp the players into unplayable characters by limiting choices, but rather keep the choices to ones that I can still enjoy running a campaign for.

There might be choice bloat, but the system math allows rather little actual power creep, as mentioned before

Example: A few posts down I see one titled "Help me make a Teddy Bear Warrior". While I'm sure there are tons of players and GMs who would be thrilled to have that in their game, I am not interested in telling that story.

That has little to do with choice paralysis nor with power creep, thats a personal preference, of course if you are gm you can do what you want

Another problem I have run into is having a character that is so complicated that each turn we struggle to figure out what even happens when all of their abilities are activated at different times (Magus - bow wiedlder, Starlit Span, Expansive Spellstrike, etc.) After a while I just kinda took their word for the 40+ damage and where their spell that was delivered by the arrow began and who it hit just so we could move on to the next players turn.

You should be able to take the word of your players anyway

that being said, when the players have settled on a concept and you see the copy of their character sheets, it is certainly not wrong to look at what they can do now and potentially later
Nobody expects you to have a full rule encyclopedia in your head
but players should also strive to not unneccessarily stretch turns

HERE IS THE CRUX OF MY QUESTION: Which books could I limit player access to that would make for a still fun (subjective i know), competitive yet much more simple game?

if you want to keep it simple keep to the core books

one step more would be allowing lost omens books

the ones I would most likely ban are the adventure paths (that you are not currently playing) since their content *can* (but does not have to) be a bit swingy

I am personally of the opinion players should enjoy maximum freedom for most campaigns
if they are experiences they'll figure it out, if they are beginners you should be helping anyway

that said, for some campaigns it makes sense to make a curated list or set some limiters so the theme of the story sticks
(easy example - no undead archetypes in a campaign where you are supposed to be the heroes - then again, that could also be interesting in its own way)

I really don't get why you would ban poppets, but I don't get why some people ban gnomes from their table

This goes in the category of topics where logical and critical thinking should be applied

as said above, even its considered an injury and not contact poison, applying them to unarmed attacks is a recipe for disaster

claws? chip a nail on your enemies armor and you are poisoned

teeth? dont even think about it it

horns? you want to risk is running down your forehead into your eyes?

even smaller ammounts of the poison being left after the use - or after the 'effective period' (i.e. the poison dries without effect on the nemy) expose the body to the poison
taking it in through the skin (or, imagine - taking a bath with a cut somewhere and the poison gets reactivated by the water)

if you want to use natural poison your options are (afaik)
nagaji - venom spit
venomous anadi heritage
and of course vishkanya who use weapons for their venom

My first look at the class, I really do like it, probably won't get an opportunity to see them in play before the playtest ends, so that is a bummer

based on my experience and impressions and what I read in other threads I still feel like sharing thoughts and making suggestions

1) making the class an occult caster slightly surprised me at first, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Having Int as key attribute seems fitting, but slightly dissonant with the theme of the dirge and the described performance flavor for the spells - maybe we should get an attribute choice? Although I would not tie that to the fascinations, that would only create an artifical barrier for playstyles

2) I really like create thrall, a flexible spell with a lot of utility and great action economy. The thralls are interesting and I love metamagic keying off them - there should be more thrall spellshape feats (more powerful widen spell if you use a thrall at its point of origin, gaining bonus damage per spell rank when sacrificing a thrall next to the enemy, etc)

3) I see the flexibility problem of thralls some people mentioned. The easiest way to adress it would probably be to add a line in create thrall akin to 'instead of creating a thrall, you can order one of your existing thralls to move 15ft'

4) while there are some options to use thalls outside of focus spells, focus spells seem to be the main focus, which especially in the early game where you need 2 actions to recharge a focus point once per combat with consume thrall, causes for periods of not many possibilities of what to do
I think adding another early focus cantrip (and generally adding a cantrip or two) and increasing the starting focus pool point to 2 might both alleviate this problem

5) there are some skills supporting wading into melee and being the worst nightmare of your enemies (weapon familiarity, ostea armaments, draining strike, desperate surge) but those feel a bit like trap options
bind heroic spirit is a good substitute for heroism but comes online rather late
the familiarity is mostly for strength weapons, but the class can only wear light armor
I would suggest giving medium armor proficiency and a way earlier (likely tiered) bind heroic spirit
maybe add a focus cantrip 'undead might - sacrifice up to X thralls to gain +X to attacks until the end of your turn'

5.1) speaking of ostea armaments, starting level 10 the lvl 8 feat scales perfectly to level, but before that it gives you an 'underleveled' weapon? only a minor nitpick but I think the feat should probably come online on level 4 or 6
I know the weapon is not technically underleveled, but for a feat that seems so flexible and potentially important to some builds, lvl 8 seems to be late

Not exactly. In mid to high level gameplay is pretty cheap to summon some level -1 creature to sacrifice, including we have a pretty strong spell to do this.

sorry to burst your bubble, but final sacrifice says you need a creature with the minion trait while the sidebar on the necromancer explicitly states that thralls are 'not minions with the summoned trait'

-Soothe and Fear are always decent choices

-If you move in close bane and malediction are things that help you and your allies

-command could easily be flavored to command the enemies skeleton :P

-invisibility to slip away between your thralls

-since the necromancer has some singing flavor sonata span might be oddly fitting (and so are many other sound based spells)

-rouse skeletons, thematically very fitting and with summon thralls being one action a movable sustainable aoe seems very handy

to name some examples - I also fully expect that book where the class comes in to deliver new and thematically fitting occult spells

halflings are short humans
gnomes are short half-fey elves

if you keep it in mind like that, theres plenty of difference already

d4 feel unsatisfying to me and all my players if we dont get to roll loads of them, which with weapons of course does not happen

for (almost) every situation where you could use a d4 weapon, you can have at least a d6 and usually dont lose much

and d4s ruined the starknife for me
I really like the design but its so unsatisfying to use..

Nothing to Shamira, would have been interesting

Do we have better by now? The first link does *work*
but how the boxes are all differently aligned triggers some minor OCD streak in me *hard*

A bit of a sideline interjection towards grapple again

If the player wants to do awesome martial arts and have grapples that can be really *really* powerful

The player might want to check out the third edition of Exalted

in itself you can grab the enemy, push them around, throw them around, savage them and bash them into stuff

and then there are martial arts and 'class' specific abilities that can be stacked of top

its a lot of rolling with a lot of dice, but (after pathfinder2e) one of my favourite systems (which of course has it's very own problems)

Tactical Drongo wrote:

There is combat stealth which can be quite useful, especially for rogues

and of course the will (and perception) debuff is a decent setup for almost every other spell you get from the bloodline

also consider that your bloodline effect is optional, you dont have to activate it - but in combat the concealed is again a flat chance to enemies just not hitting you

the +2 performance are admittedly a bit circumstancial, but imagine you are doing a performance for whatever reason anyway and cast a subtle spell during that - your next check is boosted, yay!

I guess I just have to wait to higher levels to get my bloodline spells for those will saves to come into effect. I’ve used concealed effect in combat, though at level 1 getting 3/4 chances of getting hit doesn’t seem worth the risk.

I’m glad to hear the bloodline effect is optional, I couldn’t read anywhere that it was, it just made it seem like I had to choose which effect and it would happen no matter what.

You should probably grab some additional vs Will spells from your list

more realistically it still can be a difference from like 6 points which gives you a 30% higher success and critical chance - if the lowest save then happens to be the will save you can increase your chance by 10% extra

Concealed is much better than 3/4 of a chance of being hit.

It works like this.

The target is concealed.

The enemy says "I am going to swing at the target." Then they roll a d20, and if they fail the flat check, they auto-miss and effectively lose the action(s).

If they make the flat check, then they roll as normal to actually hit.

As a GM, I've lost track of the times a monster has rolled a 20 on the Conceal flat check, and then something like a 7 on the actual hit roll. The Concealed condition has mitigated thousands of points of damage in the games I've run.

It's really undervalued by a lot of people I think.

But that also doesn't mean a low-level caster should stay tight in melee and rely on it to save them, all I'm saying is don't sleep on how good it is.

This is very important too

you are an easy target (10% easier vs average martials, 20% vs monks and champions, possibly 5-10% extra depending on your dexterity)
and have (comparatively) few hit points

you eat more hits and eat them harder (when you are engaged)
now if 25% of those hits simple are non existant, that can give you a lot of extra time on your feet