drain tanking


Advice


So in games like wow, guild wars and a handful of other game there are spells and abilities that allow one to drain tank IE. abilities that heal you based off of the damage you do most do it at a 1-1 ratio but I've seen some do it at a 4-1 ratio were you get 4 times the amount of hp back from the damage you do while any over healing turns into a damage absorption shield (would be temp hit points in pathfinder). Is there a spell or a class type that could pull something like this off?


The spell vampiric touch


Speaker for the Dead wrote:
The spell vampiric touch

vampiric touch doesn't really work for the idea as its all temporary hit points and no actual healing, what I'm looking for is things that actually heal based on the dmg they do with the potential of excess healing(sometimes called over healing) being turned into temporary hit points.


theres is a monk that alos good at draining, espeically when able to crit.


Weapons with the vampiric or greater vampiric property actually heal. No temp hp though. I suppose a magus could spellstrike vampiric touch thru a vampiric weapon to do both.


Yeah, I second the idea of vamp touch. Think about it this way: The extra temporary HP just keeps you alive long enough to get healed after the fight is over. It's still effectively letting you drain tank.

Magus is not the best tank class but there are archetypes which take you in that direction and if optimized drain tanking looks viable. Any traits or feats which up your effective caster level for this spell would be useful.


666bender wrote:

theres is a monk that alos good at draining, espeically when able to crit.

Yeah, Hungry Ghost Monk, or something like that (Don't have my APG on me)

If I remember right, you get Ki points back when you kill enemies, but there might be something about regaining health, too. You have to use Core Monk with it, but it's still the best option.
I remember hearing some noise about a third-party "Vampire" class at one point, too.


A 7th level hungry ghost monk regains some health whenever she knocks someone to 0 or fewer hit points or lands a crit. It's not a lot of health, and the text suggests that some consider it a bad thing in the sense of "that's kind of undead, dude".

Paizo appears to have an aversion to allowing PCs to drain hit points on hit in more than a very limited fashion, similar to how they have an aversion to infinite out of combat healing (boots of the earth notwithstanding).


The combo that I heard there was that you abuse the really vague definition of "enemy," so that you can tote around a box of rats, shake them up so that they get angry, and then kick the Ki out of them.
It's pretty cheesy, but at the same time, you have to play a Core Monk. So I'd probably let it into my game if anyone ever wanted to actually play a monk.


Floppy Toast wrote:

The combo that I heard there was that you abuse the really vague definition of "enemy," so that you can tote around a box of rats, shake them up so that they get angry, and then kick the Ki out of them.

It's pretty cheesy, but at the same time, you have to play a Core Monk. So I'd probably let it into my game if anyone ever wanted to actually play a monk.

Very inexperienced with monks but I hear core monk can be solid with the right archetypes. The complaint about core monk is that the poor guy is useless out of the box with no archetypes.

The Quingong monk plays as a sort of pseudomage who fights well, the hungry ghost has some cool health/ki draining sh shennanigans, there's a cool healer archetype. They also fill that mage killer niche with three good saves and do fantastically well when the party is captured and has no gear or a fight breaks out in a place where weapons are forbidden.

While I'm no fan of their flavor, I wouldn't entirely write off core monks.


I personally enjoy playing Core Monk, since I can optimize more without ruining the experience for everyone else. The flavor is fine, I think. It's mostly just that the "Monks are worthless" meme scares everyone off.


blahpers wrote:


Paizo appears to have an aversion to allowing PCs to drain hit points on hit in more than a very limited fashion, similar to how they have an aversion to infinite out of combat healing (boots of the earth notwithstanding).

Didn't they nerf the boots, or was that only for PFS?


WagnerSika wrote:
blahpers wrote:


Paizo appears to have an aversion to allowing PCs to drain hit points on hit in more than a very limited fashion, similar to how they have an aversion to infinite out of combat healing (boots of the earth notwithstanding).

Didn't they nerf the boots, or was that only for PFS?

I thought they did that too, but I can't find the nerf anywhere, even in Additional Resources.

Edit: Ah, right, it's in Campaign Clarifications for some inexplicable reason.


Floppy Toast wrote:
I personally enjoy playing Core Monk, since I can optimize more without ruining the experience for everyone else. The flavor is fine, I think. It's mostly just that the "Monks are worthless" meme scares everyone off.

Pretty much. Our party's CRB monk (no archetype) is dominating most combats--though the casters' buffs, healing, and battlefield control certainly help.


avr wrote:
Weapons with the vampiric or greater vampiric property actually heal. No temp hp though. I suppose a magus could spellstrike vampiric touch thru a vampiric weapon to do both.

Vampiric is also terrible the only version of it that's any good is the +3 version back in 3.0(which is not useable with my group) it would be a fine enchant if not for the limited cap on how much you can heal per hit(max of your hit die) and how much hp you can heal per day with it(2 per hit die or 5 per hit die with greater).


So what I'm seeing is that there is no ability in game that would be similar to a wow's warlock drain life spell or a blood death knights death strike ability, or any of the guild wars necromancer life drain abilities. That kind of sucks.


Eh, Pathfinder isn't World of Warcraft.

Dark Archive

You can't really easily apply MMO mechanical concepts to tabletop RPGs like Pathfinder. It's a turn-based game that relies on resources that are limited on a per-day basis to establish an adventuring day, rather than rapid action and resources that regenerate over the span of seconds. Having mechanics where health, one of the primary limited resources, could be easily and rapidly replenished while simultaneously dealing damage would throw the system entirely out of whack. There's a reason "tanks" in Pathfinder (which is really just the most durable characters, since there is no aggro system) generally focus on avoidance or mitigation, because those let the limited resources of HP/healing stretch further.

That said, you could conceivably reflavor something like a paladin's Lay On Hands as "vampiric" healing if the GM was willing to be flexible. Only use it after dealing damage, maybe allow you to heal by the amount of damage you deal rather than rolling (if that amount is in the range of healing the ability could normally do at that level).


DUDE. VAMPIRIC TOUCH. CLOSE ENOUGH.

Grand Lodge

You could go after converting some of your damage taken to subdual damage. Then you would double the effekt of healing or fasthealing.
Could be a primalist spelleater aberant bloodrager with a protector tumor familiar. Cast Ablative Barrier to help converting damage to subdual damage. The Fast Healer feat increases your spelleater fasthealing. A dip in unbreakable fighter to grab the feats Endurance and Die Hard.


i had a warpriest in evil game that liked going into melee with lot of low level mobs using Aura of Cannibalism (and later on empowered too) just for the feel of it. high ac,keeping them down while keeping his hp on the overflow, was nice. problem was adjusting for the creature type.

Dark Archive

Divine fighting technique

Advanced Prerequisites: Great Fortitude, Weapon Focus (scimitar), Heal 10 ranks.

Advanced Benefit: Once per round as you strike a foe with a weapon and deal nonlethal damage with that attack, you regain 1d6 hit points as the warmth of Sarenrae’s approval and the conviction that you are doing the right thing to minimize suffering infuses your body and soul. If the attack that dealt nonlethal damage was from a scimitar, you instead regain 2d6 hit points. You can gain the benefit of this healing only once per round, regardless of how many successful attacks you make with the weapon.

Dark Archive

Combine with flameblade spell, and the feats fire gods blessing, glorious heat and faster healer


If you're allowed Psionics classes, I'd recommend a Psychic Warrior using Claws of the Vampire or Vampiric Blade. They both last multiple rounds and they're fairly cheap to manifest. Psychic Warriors are tough nuggets to crack too, excellent tankers, especially because of the vigor/share pain combo and Share Power with Psicrystal.

If you're looking for a WoW-style drain tanker, this is the way to do it.


Magus also gets Vampiric Shadow Shield


If third party is allowed there are a couple ways in Path of War.

A Crimson Countess Harbinger can deal damage equal to level and heal 1d6 for each creature claimed as a move action, combine that with Grasp of Darkness and Dark Authority to boost claiming speed and defenses.
Silver Crane (SC) has some decent healing maneuvers, the harbinger doesn't get it natively but there are easy ways around that. Unquiet Grave also has at least one good temp HP strike.

A Sanguinist Angel of Mercy (or just Sanguinist if you arrange SC another way) Medic gets SC and can heal themselves and people around them with a blood reserve they fill by punching people. It's more of a healer but you can be selfish with it.

You're not likely to find anything that heals at a 1-1 ratio or better, but you can make yourself pretty durable by hurting people.


A 1-1 healing ratio on melee attacks in Pathfinder would be beyond broken.

An optimized character would be able to completely heal every single round.


Soulthief Method Vitalists are also exceptional drain tankers, and they can heal the whole group as opposed to just themselves.

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