Thanks Jason, Its very cool that you guys are taking the time to support the game at this level. Paizo keeps going that extra mile and its appreciated.
The last intelligent weapon I created for my players was a few years ago now.
I used a similar process for creating intelligent items as I did for NPCs, I write a list of questions then flesh it out from there.
Who created the item?
Why did they create it?
How many had owned it?
Are any of the owners still alive?
Do they or their families want it back?
Is the weapon/item famous, do others want it?
and so on...
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In the article, it mentions the item keeping silent and hiding its abilities, until it can be sure of its new owner's worth.
Is that possible in 3E/PF?
It used to be possible in 1E/2E, since the Identify spell only gave partial, incremental readings, and wasn't even guaranteed to give result at all. A PC could be walking round, thinking he only has a +1 weapon, unaware of its other properties (even basic ones, such as flaming, etc) unless he was willing to blow hundreds more gold on further speculative Identifies 'just to be sure'.
That changed in 3.0, when Identify just gave the whole game away in one shot. This is probably because the older way was harsh, and resulted in some real wall-banger moments, when the PCs traded away the campaign's Ultimate McGuffin, or were TPKed without realising they had the means to survive.
The PF Spellcraft rules only state that it takes 3 rounds study (DC 15+crafter's caster level), to identify an item's properties. Is it the intent of the designers that this should reveal one of an item's powers in increments?
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In the article, it mentions the item keeping silent and hiding its abilities, until it can be sure of its new owner's worth.
Is that possible in 3E/PF?
That is an interesting thought.
I'd be inclined to house-rule that an intelligent item be allowed a Will save to resist the Identify, to keep some of it's secrets hidden. While Identify doesn't normally have any sort of saving throw, it would be in keeping with precedent of other invasive divination spells (like detect thoughts and discern) having saving throws, while more basic 'detects' generally don't. The intelligent item wouldn't get a save vs. detect magic, and so, if it succeeded on a save vs. Identify, it should at least allow the spellcaster to confirm that it is a +X longsword or whatever, even if it holds back the bit about being intelligent, CE, and wanting blood and souls for it's lord Arioch. I wouldn't allow it to actually lie and misrepresent itself (unless it had a special power to do so, with nondetection / misdirection, etc. built into the enchantments), but it could hold stuff back or give only the basics.
But that's all just house-rule stuff. Against a normal identify spell, the average intelligent item has no recourse but to give up the goods.
I think I would leave the intelligence and any powers related to it undiscoverable to Spellcraft/identify.
An intelligent +2 sword would read as a +2 sword with some form of hidden power that cannot be identified. The PCs would instantly know that their is something special about the sword, but not know exactly what it is.
Edit: Another alternative is a caster level check against 10 + the item's ego.
Since identify is based on detect magic, the item could have nondetection as a part of its powers. I think that an intelligent item would be heavily invested in thwarting its misuse. Not allowing it to keep its secrets makes it too easy for the players. Where is the fun in that for either players or GM?
Misdirection could be even more fun.
"Okay, this magic sword seems to be... uh... a +1 mithril shirt?!?"
Good read! I've only tried using an intelligent item once so far, but it wasn't for anything epic. I used it for was a way of keeping the party's insane gnome bard from doing incredibly stupid things (with out of character permission of course). The gnome has such low wisdom that he can easily fail the ego checks even though it is a fairly weak item. Out of game, we call it the 'Ring of Better Judgment'. I probably haven't done everything with it that I could have XD
Director of Games
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Interesting point everyone. While a number of rules alterations would work (and I might just cover a few of these ideas next week), one of the things I did have in mind was a new power that allows the item to hide its true powers or even to give off the aura of different powers if it so chooses.
More on that next week.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Another option is to look to books like Fred Saberhagen's Books of Swords. Knowing an item's powers doesn't mean you know all the drawbacks or limitations.
Soulcutter will blanket an area in an aura of despair (but you're not immune to it).
Townsaver lets you defend the innocent. (but won't let you let go if there's an innocent left) etc.
Maybe the item doesn't know its weaknesses. Or maybe make it so Identify doesn't pick up any of the 'intelligent' powers. So The Saphire Blade, imbued with the collective intelligence of vizers past, able to heal its wielder, sense gold and cast shield to protect the wielder, just Identifies as a "+2 shocking burst scimitar."
Interesting point everyone. While a number of rules alterations would work (and I might just cover a few of these ideas next week), one of the things I did have in mind was a new power that allows the item to hide its true powers or even to give off the aura of different powers if it so chooses.
More on that next week.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Great article and wonderful points. Some of my best campaigns have centered around intelligent items, almost accidentally. In many ways its like introducing an NPC to the party. I like the idea of a power to mask its properties, although will you also include the idea of allowing it to have a Will check?
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One of the things that I do in my game for magic items that have more to them than meets the eye (such as intelligent items or magical macguffins) is that Spellcraft / detect magic / identify will give basic information, aura, etc., but NOT the extra abilities above and beyond what the item is, for example if an item is a +1 wounding longsword but is also intelligent and has powers and other things associated with it, the PCs can get the +1 wounding longsword stuff but nothing else (such as that it is intelligent or has dedicated abilities) from the above 3 methods; however, I do give some sort of omen or hint that there is more to the item than what the PCs are able to detect by normal means, such as when someone grasps the hilt they shiver for a second as if someone walked over their grave and then the feeling passes, or that the magical aura is overwhelming for something that should only have a moderate or strong aura.
This is where sages and higher-level spells such as analyze dweomer and legend lore can be used to discover the things that detect magic and identify were not.
Another option is to look to books like Fred Saberhagen's Books of Swords. Knowing an item's powers doesn't mean you know all the drawbacks or limitations.
** spoiler omitted **
Maybe the item doesn't know its weaknesses. Or maybe make it so Identify doesn't pick up any of the 'intelligent' powers. So The Saphire Blade, imbued with the collective intelligence of vizers past, able to heal its wielder, sense gold and cast shield to protect the wielder, just Identifies as a "+2 shocking burst scimitar."
<thud> <thud> <thud> <thud>
+1
I was waiting for the Fred Saberhagen reference.
Hi everyone.
But what's the need to go rules intensive? There is no need for a rule so specific. Snorter's question has a great clue and that is "the item keeping silent". An identify spell might reveal it has more qualities and powers, but if the item is intelligent it might CHOOSE not to reveal or allow their use, precisely under the basis of the wielder being unworthy.
On the other hand though, when swords are "intelligent" the trick is not making them to break their silence... but to make them to shut up.
:)
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I placed an +2 Axiomatic Bastard Sword as part of a treasure which came with it's own history as the personal sidearm of a relatively severe paladin who had been killed by a giant.
I had not planned to make the item intelligent, but I wanted to get across to the players the idea that this item was Axiomatic because some of the paladin's extreme lawfulness had rubbed off on it. Also, there is the fact that a chaotic character picking it up would gain a negative level, so I felt that it should be obvious to the characters what this thing was without the need for an identify spell.
So when the first PC, a chaotic bard, picked up the item, I ad-libbed something along the lines of "Picking up the sword, something feels off. You feel 'rebuked' by the sword. You can tell that you are not worthy to wield it! A vagabond like you could not hope to unlock the power of this honorable blade! Not while gallivanting around willy-nilly just as you've done for years! Is this really the best you could achieve in life? What would your mother say if she could see you now?"
The bemused bard quickly handed the blade off to the party paladin, who got an impression along the lines of "Ah, yes! You sense that this blade is for you. Why, you could achieve great things with this blade! Think of all of the unlawful miscreants you could smite, the criminals you could bring to justice, the order you could impose by it's power! Truly, you are worthy to wield this great weapon!"
The players seemed to take this to mean that the sword was intelligent, but I decided to make it more "emotive" than intelligent. When Chaotic creatures threatened the party, if the Paladin ever dithered when deciding his action for the round, I'd often say something like "Of course you smite them with your mighty blade! Your sword longs to taste the blood of these beasts of chaos! Attack!" If the party ever retreated from Chaotic foes, he could tell "Your sword feels very disappointed." Occasionally, if he was unsure of a foe's alingment, he'd ask "how does my sword feel about this guy?" ("Meh" was the usual response to non-chaotic adversaries)
There was never any question of a contest of wills between weapon and master, and the thing never had any ideas of its own, but it did add a fun dimension to the item beyond "+2d6 damage to chaotic creatures".
...A vagabond like you could not hope to unlock the power of this honorable blade! Not while gallivanting around willy-nilly just as you've done for years! Is this really the best you could achieve in life? What would your mother say if she could see you now?
You sound like a fun GM to play with :-)
I placed an +2 Axiomatic Bastard Sword as part of a treasure which came with it's own history as the personal sidearm of a relatively severe paladin who had been killed by a giant.
I had not planned to make the item intelligent, but I wanted to get across to the players the idea that this item was Axiomatic because some of the paladin's extreme lawfulness had rubbed off on it. Also, there is the fact that a chaotic character picking it up would gain a negative level, so I felt that it should be obvious to the characters what this thing was without the need for an identify spell.
So when the first PC, a chaotic bard, picked up the item, I ad-libbed something along the lines of "Picking up the sword, something feels off. You feel 'rebuked' by the sword. You can tell that you are not worthy to wield it! A vagabond like you could not hope to unlock the power of this honorable blade! Not while gallivanting around willy-nilly just as you've done for years! Is this really the best you could achieve in life? What would your mother say if she could see you now?"
The bemused bard quickly handed the blade off to the party paladin, who got an impression along the lines of "Ah, yes! You sense that this blade is for you. Why, you could achieve great things with this blade! Think of all of the unlawful miscreants you could smite, the criminals you could bring to justice, the order you could impose by it's power! Truly, you are worthy to wield this great weapon!"
The players seemed to take this to mean that the sword was intelligent, but I decided to make it more "emotive" than intelligent. When Chaotic creatures threatened the party, if the Paladin ever dithered when deciding his action for the round, I'd often say something like "Of course you smite them with your mighty blade! Your sword longs to taste the blood of these beasts of chaos! Attack!" If the party ever retreated from Chaotic foes, he could tell "Your sword feels very disappointed." Occasionally, if he was unsure of a foe's alingment,...
~laughter~ That is AWESOME!!!
I appreciate this kind of blog very much. I'm a fan of intelligent items, and this was a treat. I look forward to the next installment.