Agents of Edgewatch Update

Monday, June 22, 2020

We at Paizo strive to represent our company’s values of inclusivity through the content of our Pathfinder and Starfinder publications. Showcasing diversity in the stories of the cultures, races, sexualities, and gender identities of our characters is something we’ve tried to emphasize since the company’s inception 18 years ago. As we wrote in our public statement earlier this month about the Black Lives Matter movement, it’s an ongoing and vital process.

The murder of George Floyd by police and the resulting political actions, increased visibility around issues of police brutality, and ongoing conversation about the role of policing in our society casts a difficult light upon Agents of Edgewatch, our upcoming Pathfinder Adventure Path in which players take on the roles of members of the city watch in a vast fantasy metropolis. As Paizo’s publisher, I want to take this opportunity to address the situation directly.

When we began work early last year on Agents of Edgewatch, we conceived of the adventures as a pseudo-Victorian crime drama in which a party of Sherlock Holmeses would bring a cult of sinister murderers to justice against the backdrop of a World’s Fair-style celebration in Absalom, the huge city at the center of the Pathfinder world. Along the way, we’d dabble in some buddy cop movie tropes and use the players’ role as new and idealistic town guards as a framing device for a tour of the city as they attempt to thwart the evil cult’s machinations.

In our heads, this was a classic detective story, not a chance for players to act out power fantasies of being militarized police officers oppressing citizens. As publisher, I was confident that we could steer well clear of egregious parallels to modern police violence and handle the material responsibly.

But there’s more to it than that. What I hadn't realized—no doubt a result of my own privilege—is that the very concept of police, the idea of in fact taking on the role of police, makes some members of the Paizo community deeply uncomfortable, no matter how deftly we might try to pull off the execution.

While I remain proud of the work we as a team have put into the Agents of Edgewatch campaign, and I believe that our writers, developers, and editors have ensured that the subject matter has been handled responsibly, I also believe that if we were making the decision about Adventure Path themes today, we would have chosen to go forward with a different idea, or a different take on a similar detective-story theme. For many of us here at Paizo, our understanding has evolved, not just of the horrible impact of police violence, but how some members of our community—especially those who are also members of the Black community—have not had the luxury of ignoring it.

To that end, I should acknowledge that some members of our staff did raise concerns about the campaign’s theme early on. In retrospect, I did not give these concerns the full audience that they deserved, and I regret this oversight. That’s part of the learning process, too.

I remain confident in our ability to create a campaign that lives up to our editorial and moral standards—even while acknowledging that we should have chosen a different approach for this Adventure Path. The events of the Agents of Edgewatch campaign assume empathic, heroic player characters who are there to serve their community. Groups who wish to play the campaign without taking on the role of city guards will be able to remove the law-enforcement element from the story without much work, instead telling the heroic tale of a band of local adventurers who take it upon themselves to rid the city of murderers and evil cultists. The free Agents of Edgewatch Player’s Guide (scheduled to release next week) will offer several suggestions on how to do this, as well as tips on how to utilize and adapt Pathfinder’s non-combat conflict-resolution mechanics as well as non-lethal combat rules when running the campaign.

I’d like to acknowledge the efforts of our editing team, who have been exemplary in helping us to eliminate unintentionally problematic elements, consult with sensitivity readers, and ensure that products come with detailed content warnings. The developers have likewise been striving to be more sensitive to these concerns. I hope that Agents of Edgewatch as a whole will display our ability to listen and present the subject matter respectfully. We will continue to strive to improve our sensitivity and ensure our adventure and plot elements remain firmly in the realm of fantasy.

While we cannot afford to cancel or delay the Adventure Path, we want to show our commitment to remedying our earlier choices through action. As we stated in a previous blog, we’ve contributed the Starfinder Core Rulebook to Humble Bundle’s Fight for Racial Justice charity fundraising campaign, which has already raised more than $3,700,000 for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, Race Forward, and the Bail Project. Furthermore, Paizo will donate a portion of proceeds from all volumes of the Agents of Edgewatch Adventure Path sold through the end of 2021 to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. Lastly, next month, we’ll announce another major fundraising effort focused squarely on Paizo’s products, with charity proceeds to benefit Black-oriented charities. We hope you will join us in these efforts.

We remain committed to the ideals of inclusivity and racial justice. We will continue to listen and will strive to do better in the future.

Erik Mona
Publisher

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Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
PFRPGrognard wrote:
Now, you can't even just write an adventure without having to apologize for it.

Of course they can. They've apologized for one adventure out of nearly a hundred or more.

No one is apologizing for Curse of the Crimson Throne being about a political leader encouraging the spread of a plague while common folk protest law enforcement overreaches.

You mean the one who is under influence of a malicious external power?

Grand Lodge

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I'm sure I don't know what you mean, we're only in book 3.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:
PFRPGrognard wrote:
Now, you can't even just write an adventure without having to apologize for it.

Of course they can. They've apologized for one adventure out of nearly a hundred or more.

No one is apologizing for Curse of the Crimson Throne being about a political leader encouraging the spread of a plague while common folk protest law enforcement overreaches.

Of course, that might have been received differently if it came out today. Sometimes, due to no fault of the creators, the timing for something is just wrong.

Shadow Lodge

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Or maybe some people didn't find it so welcoming.


Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

I lived in extra territorial Vatican property for 3.5 years abs know that Tuacany is very diffwrenr from Lazio which is different from Sicilia which is different from Castilla and the Gallego regions of thr Iberian peninsula.

However, that doesnt mean that there could not be a respectful development of Meso snd Native and Hispanic culture esqe places in Golarion. Out of the currenr TTRPGs I would trust Paizo the most to do so in a respectful manner.

I mean it is hard to boast of inclusivity when a major grouping of the Americas in general and the US in particular is left out.

Hispanic culture is a little tricky to do without more of a direct history parallel than we really have. It's a legacy of recent colonial history in a way that most other represented ethnic groups aren't.

Native cultures could certainly have a place in Golarion, of course.


Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
They have at least 2 Hispanic game designers. One who developed La Llorona for 1e

And Diego did a great job on her design.


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Psiphyre wrote:
Ludovicus wrote:
coyotegospel wrote:
Also, it is their right to not announce a number. Even 0.5% is better than 0%
Without announcing a number, they shouldn't have said this at all. If I tell all my friends that I'm donating a portion of my income to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, and that portion turns out to be $1, all I've done is try to deceive people into thinking I'm virtuous. Expressions of commitment are only meaningful if the commitments are meaningful.

There are many for whom even $1 is a significant donation to make from what little 'income' they may have...

(Not everyone is fortunate enough to be in a financial position where one can consider $1 to be a pittance.)

Respectfully,

--C.

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks. I apologize for the example; I recognize that, for many people, budgeting is a nerve-racking and depressing exercise in stretching every dollar as far as it can go. However, while I get that the last thing you want is to make this thread even more fraught than it is, it may also be worth considering that (a) Paizo is not among these people, but is rather a for-profit corporation, and (b) giving for-profit corporations a pass on whether they are actually materially helping those in need in a meaningful way, as opposed to making superficial gestures at providing this help, may not be the best way to express sympathy and solidarity with the people you describe.

Scarab Sages

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Catulle wrote:
YawarFiesta wrote:
However, defunding the police will bring mob rule and lynching as it always happens when there is no police.

It may be worth doing a bit of reading in regard to how police responses to lynchings in the early C19th US "solved" that problem.

See also the Lynwood Vikings and recent case of Robert Fuller: this is not a purely historical or theoretical matter.

Not to mention, actually doing some research into what "defunding the police" actually means and the programs that will replace it. If all you are doing is hearing, "defund the police," and immediately assume, "that means there will be vast swaths of anarchy and lawlessness," then you are doing yourself and everyone you communicate with a vast disservice.

Scarab Sages

5 people marked this as a favorite.
YawarFiesta wrote:


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
The vast majority of people arrested weren’t arrested for rioting, they were arrested for protesting.

Again, source please. As far as I know protesting is legal in the USA. However, if they are facing false charges for rioting, a Legal Defense Fund might be even more useful since the Public Defender system sometimes leaves much to be desire.

Have you actually been paying attention? And not just to Fox News? There was a violin vigil done in a park that the police used pepper spray on. That's hardly rioting.

People were getting arrested for not moving away from certain areas fast enough when they were marching or protesting. The charge was disorderly conduct. So they weren't technically arrested for protesting, as you say, that isn't a thing. But they weren't doing anything else but protesting, peacefully, and got arrested under some trumped up charge, simply because they were protesting the police.

Scarab Sages

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YawarFiesta wrote:


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

So again, I have to wonder, what big historical changes have been driven by centrism, not causing a fuss, and quietly hoping people in power will just one day become better people?

Because every major progressive movement victory has protesting, rioting and civil disobedience to drive the change. Read a history book.

Okay, first centrism means someone who takes policies from right and them left. Centrism doesn't mean fence sitting. For example, I've always agree with same sex marriage and adoption rights, does that make me a leftist suddenly?

Second, please, don't mix civil disobedience and protest with rioting. Perhaps I am being simplistic, but rioting implies the use of force and violence and that legitimizes the use of force against you in the eyes of the spectator. If anything its poor tactics. I would recommend you read Rules for Radicals or watch a video about it if you are short on time.

Humbly,
Yawar

That's not actually what centrism is.

centrism

Wikipedia wrote:
In politics, centrism is a political outlook or specific position that involves acceptance or support of a balance of a degree of social equality and a degree of social hierarchy, while opposing political changes which would result in a significant shift of society strongly to either the left or the right.

That sounds a lot like me to, "keep things as they are."

And when discussing centrism in regards to the spectrum of left/right, you are talking about the median of voters, policies, and politicians. In other words, today's centrism is roughly Reagan-level conservatism and policy, where centrism during Reagan's time was more along Elizabeth Warren's actual policies (not what she tried to sign onto with all the socialist democracy stuff).

The point is, calling yourself a centrist doesn't mean, in common political parlance, what you are saying it means.

Its literally sitting in the exact median of the Far Left and Far Right, and that line shifts over the years and decades. Right now, the Centrist seat sits rather closer to GOP conservatism of Reagan than it did during the Reagan years. Because the GOP and conservative politics has really, drastically, gone far right, where many of the current GOP ideals and platform would have been considered freakishly right-wing in the 1980's.


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YawarFiesta wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
With five black men hung outside courthouses in recent weeks, ruled “suicides” by police, seems mobs and lynchings are going to happen regardless.

Could you please provide a source for the article, that one flew under my radar.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
The vast majority of people arrested weren’t arrested for rioting, they were arrested for protesting.

Again, source please. As far as I know protesting is legal in the USA. However, if they are facing false charges for rioting, a Legal Defense Fund might be even more useful since the Public Defender system sometimes leaves much to be desire.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

So again, I have to wonder, what big historical changes have been driven by centrism, not causing a fuss, and quietly hoping people in power will just one day become better people?

Because every major progressive movement victory has protesting, rioting and civil disobedience to drive the change. Read a history book.

Okay, first centrism means someone who takes policies from right and them left. Centrism doesn't mean fence sitting. For example, I've always agree with same sex marriage and adoption rights, does that make me a leftist suddenly?

Second, please, don't mix civil disobedience and protest with rioting. Perhaps I am being simplistic, but rioting implies the use of force and violence and that legitimizes the use of force against you in the eyes of the spectator. If anything its poor tactics. I would recommend you read Rules for Radicals or watch a video about it if you are short on time.

Humbly,
Yawar

This got buried because other people posted crazy things, but I wanted to address it. You're drawing distinctions between protesting, civil disobedience, and rioting. But a given example could be labeled as all three of those by different people viewing it. The problem, as I see it, is that the people who make that distinction in the eyes of the law are the same people being protested. Arguing we should never bailout people who have been arrested for rioting only makes sense if we can actually trust they were rioting. And right now many of us (myself included) just don't trust the police assessment on this crucial distinction you're making.

(Black Lives Matter, in case I need to out right say it here.)


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Ludovicus wrote:
Psiphyre wrote:
Ludovicus wrote:
coyotegospel wrote:
Also, it is their right to not announce a number. Even 0.5% is better than 0%
Without announcing a number, they shouldn't have said this at all. If I tell all my friends that I'm donating a portion of my income to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, and that portion turns out to be $1, all I've done is try to deceive people into thinking I'm virtuous. Expressions of commitment are only meaningful if the commitments are meaningful.

There are many for whom even $1 is a significant donation to make from what little 'income' they may have...

(Not everyone is fortunate enough to be in a financial position where one can consider $1 to be a pittance.)

Respectfully,

--C.

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks. I apologize for the example; I recognize that, for many people, budgeting is a nerve-racking and depressing exercise in stretching every dollar as far as it can go. However, while I get that the last thing you want is to make this thread even more fraught than it is, it may also be worth considering that (a) Paizo is not among these people, but is rather a for-profit corporation, and (b) giving for-profit corporations a pass on whether they are actually materially helping those in need in a meaningful way, as opposed to making superficial gestures at providing this help, may not be the best way to express sympathy and solidarity with the people you describe.

I think part of the issue here is what defines "meaningful?" That seems like a really complicated question that I (and most people on the internet, I reckon) am not qualified to answer. You'd need to know profit margins, how much staff are paid, cost of living for their respective regions... I dunno how they prove that a number is meaningful short of sharing the personal information of all their staff, and without that complete picture people would try and dissect the percentage named and inevitably do a bad job of it. Not sure any good would come of it.


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Tallow wrote:

That's not actually what centrism is.

centrism

Wikipedia wrote:
In politics, centrism is a political outlook or specific position that involves acceptance or support of a balance of a degree of social equality and a degree of social hierarchy, while opposing political changes which would result in a significant shift of society strongly to either the left or the right.

That sounds a lot like me to, "keep things as they are."

And when discussing centrism in regards to the spectrum of left/right, you are talking about the median of voters, policies, and politicians. In other words, today's centrism is roughly Reagan-level conservatism and policy, where centrism during Reagan's time was more along Elizabeth Warren's actual policies (not what she tried to sign onto with all the socialist democracy stuff).

The point is, calling yourself a centrist doesn't mean, in common political parlance, what you are saying it means.

Its literally sitting in the exact median of the Far Left and Far Right, and that line shifts over the years and decades. Right now, the Centrist seat sits rather closer to GOP conservatism of Reagan than it did during the Reagan years. Because the GOP and conservative politics has really, drastically, gone far right, where many of the current GOP ideals and platform would have been considered freakishly right-wing in the 1980's.

Part of the problem is that a one-dimensional political spectrum doesn't cover all the bases. Take a look at the Pournelle chart. There are other two dimensional charts with different features on the axes. As Pournelle himself said, two dimensions aren't enough either. Note how close together "welfare liberals" and "various conservatives" are on this chart relative to other political ideologies.


Tallow wrote:
YawarFiesta wrote:


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
The vast majority of people arrested weren’t arrested for rioting, they were arrested for protesting.

Again, source please. As far as I know protesting is legal in the USA. However, if they are facing false charges for rioting, a Legal Defense Fund might be even more useful since the Public Defender system sometimes leaves much to be desire.

Have you actually been paying attention? And not just to Fox News? There was a violin vigil done in a park that the police used pepper spray on. That's hardly rioting.

People were getting arrested for not moving away from certain areas fast enough when they were marching or protesting. The charge was disorderly conduct. So they weren't technically arrested for protesting, as you say, that isn't a thing. But they weren't doing anything else but protesting, peacefully, and got arrested under some trumped up charge, simply because they were protesting the police.

Local laws and policies vary, so the actual charges used will vary along with the percentage arrested for minor charges vs actual assault or burglary. According to one AP article near the top of my search: Of some 3000 arrests in LA, about 2500 were for failure to disperse or curfew violations.

Others might be charged with rioting simply for being in the area when things turned nasty - or being in an area when the rioting entered it. If they've actually got evidence of you doing something, you'll be charged with that: assaulting an officer, burglary, property damage, etc. If they don't have anything specific - prove you weren't rioting.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Typically, I do draw some limits myself, but they're more about "Everyone should have the same rights, so what am I comfortable with everyone being able to do without fear of reprecussions?"

Which for me, means imagining groups that scare me utilizing similar tactics-- I'm supportive of civil disobedience tactics from movements like BLM shutting down highways and such, but I'd be much less ok with it if it was a right wing nationalist movement doing the same with "You will not replace us" signs.

I'm also conscious that I can differentiate simply by making (the obvious) moral judgement as to the legitimacy of each cause to determine my comfort with the tactic, but it still runs the risk of normalizing the tactic such that it could become much more acceptable for the groups I disagree with.

But, all of this is simply nuance concerning the tactics, culture, and possible ramifications of a faction I support with my whole heart. We need radical change in our Society, we need to become less bigoted, and more egalitarian. If we're going to have Law Enforcement, then it can't be used to maintain an unequal and evil Power structure. Defunding means different things, it's being proferred as both Police Abolition (by groups that self identify for that purpose), and as an avenue of Police reform and a rebalancing of how we address social ills.

Ultimately, I think that's where we are now- the political narratives of incremental change won't cut it, we need to reinvent the whole conversation. Political discussion, dissent, and such are well and good- but the conversation has to move forward at some point for us to be able to have healthy dissent, rather than dissent that simply rubber stamps the status quo.

Equality is non-negotiable, the end of bigotry is non negotiable-- the oppressed will simply not consent to any alternative. So it's time to accept that, accomplish it, and look forward to the questions posed by the society that leaves us with.

I specialize academically in questions of identity, and that's the fight I'm gearing up for, to tussle with ethnic sectarianism and nationalism. For culture to be a truly universal human heritage, rather an ethnically specific one.

Scarab Sages

Ed Reppert wrote:
Tallow wrote:

That's not actually what centrism is.

centrism

Wikipedia wrote:
In politics, centrism is a political outlook or specific position that involves acceptance or support of a balance of a degree of social equality and a degree of social hierarchy, while opposing political changes which would result in a significant shift of society strongly to either the left or the right.

That sounds a lot like me to, "keep things as they are."

And when discussing centrism in regards to the spectrum of left/right, you are talking about the median of voters, policies, and politicians. In other words, today's centrism is roughly Reagan-level conservatism and policy, where centrism during Reagan's time was more along Elizabeth Warren's actual policies (not what she tried to sign onto with all the socialist democracy stuff).

The point is, calling yourself a centrist doesn't mean, in common political parlance, what you are saying it means.

Its literally sitting in the exact median of the Far Left and Far Right, and that line shifts over the years and decades. Right now, the Centrist seat sits rather closer to GOP conservatism of Reagan than it did during the Reagan years. Because the GOP and conservative politics has really, drastically, gone far right, where many of the current GOP ideals and platform would have been considered freakishly right-wing in the 1980's.

Part of the problem is that a one-dimensional political spectrum doesn't cover all the bases. Take a look at the Pournelle chart. There are other two dimensional charts with different features on the axes. As Pournelle himself said, two dimensions aren't enough either. Note how close together "welfare liberals" and "various conservatives" are on this chart relative to other political ideologies.

Oh, certainly, I've seen many different multi-axis political charts like this before. And many of the ideas and thoughts are intersectional as well. Lots of ven diagrams.

Customer Service Representative

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