Kingmaker 10th Anniversary Campaign Begins!

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Steve Geddes wrote:

I had an issue receiving my PDFs due to having opted out of marketing emails. I've now got that code (thank you for sorting it so swiftly!)

May I ask if we all have a unique redemption code, usable once and if so if it is permissible to give that to someone else to redeem on their paizo account?

I dont use PDFs and I know someone who didn't back the project but wishes they had. So it seems a waste for them to sit there undownloaded on my account.

I appreciate that if this is possible and someone else downloads my redemption code, I will never be able to access the PDFs without buying them.

I know the codes are usable only once. Customer Service is not monitoring this thread and I’m actually on a long weekend so you may wish to email them.

Gosh, Aaron. Don’t answer me off the clock. Enjoy your time off! (Sailing?)

No sailing, yet, but it might happen. I’m spending the long weekend with my brother, sister, sister-in-law, and one year old nephew having some family time and watching the Rings of Power premiere. :)

Will Adventure Path subscribers be able to get a PDF included with their purchase of the physical book? I'm guessing the answer is no, but you know, wishful thinking!

There are 4 pieces of kobold art in the AP: New versions of Chief Sootscale and Tartuk, as well as 2 new NPCs. All very good, but then I think the old depictions of Tartuk and the Chief were great too.

In general my players agree: old Sootscale was one of the finest pieces of kobold art anywhere in 1e... but new Sootscale is also an absolute banger of Paizo-style kobolds.

Will Adventure Path subscribers be able to get a PDF included with their purchase of the physical book? I'm guessing the answer is no, but you know, wishful thinking!

While it is our normal for us to offer subscribers a complimentary PDF if they preorder, we are not doing that this time due to the crowdfunding origin of this product line.

I only care about the PF1e portions so I just want the Bestiary for it when it comes out for everyone later. Glad Legendary Games cares about PF1e players unlike Paizo, who ditched us and won't make more game material for us. LG seems to be the only ones so far producing PF1e content still.

Can someone share the ToC of the Bestiary by any chance?

If anybody at Paizo was at any point thinking "gee, if we put out the PF1 bestiary then people who stayed with PF1 will be hopefully glad and happy, and that will encourage us to make more such products" they are likely having second thoughts right now.

I'm in New York State, so yeah, US.

October 26th. Waiting is... :-)

Hm. When will we be able to order it? Before street date, I hope. The way my subs are set up I probably won't get this until November anyway, but I'd like not to be the guy who tries to order and finds "sorry, out of stock". :-)

With your luck, hope for October of 2025.

Heh.

willfromamerica wrote:

Will Adventure Path subscribers be able to get a PDF included with their purchase of the physical book? I'm guessing the answer is no, but you know, wishful thinking!

While it is our normal for us to offer subscribers a complimentary PDF if they preorder, we are not doing that this time due to the crowdfunding origin of this product line.

I'll just say that, as a crowdfunding backer who has received both my books and my PDFs (who also has a lot of subscriptions):

It neither benefits me nor takes anything away from what I have to give non-backer subscribers PDFs for pre-order.

Just like it didn't take anything away from me when Paizo gave the crowdfunding backers PDFs for the original Kingmaker AP issues, despite doing nothing for me due to the fact I already had both physical and PDF copies from my subscription during the original run a decade + ago.

I'd encourage your decision-maker on that point to reconsider.

Likewise, I backed it because I wanted to see it happen as much if not more than for what I was getting out of it. "Exclsuive" is not a draw for me, nor any kind of appealing to keep others from getting something just because I have it.

Barachiel Shina wrote:

I only care about the PF1e portions so I just want the Bestiary for it when it comes out for everyone later. Glad Legendary Games cares about PF1e players unlike Paizo, who ditched us and won't make more game material for us. LG seems to be the only ones so far producing PF1e content still.

Can someone share the ToC of the Bestiary by any chance?

If anybody at Paizo was at any point thinking "gee, if we put out the PF1 bestiary then people who stayed with PF1 will be hopefully glad and happy, and that will encourage us to make more such products" they are likely having second thoughts right now.

grumble

@James/Aaron: going through the PDFs now and yes Sires, this is indeed a masterpiece! well worth the wait. Thanks to everyone involved in this monumental project.

PS: I'm going to run this with a 1E group, and was pleasantly surprised at the extensive 1E Bestiary add-on! the sheer amount of stat blocks in this book is impressive and will be a good addition to my 1E library. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have an easy time adapting the rest of the adventure to 1E (or I'll wing it somehow) but please don't hesitate to provide me with any tip you can think of (like a quick rule of thumb for skill DC conversion, if the 2E math is much different; thx!)

@James/Aaron: going through the PDFs now and yes Sires, this is indeed a masterpiece! well worth the wait. Thanks to everyone involved in this monumental project.

PS: I'm going to run this with a 1E group, and was pleasantly surprised at the extensive 1E Bestiary add-on! the sheer amount of stat blocks in this book is impressive and will be a good addition to my 1E library. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have an easy time adapting the rest of the adventure to 1E (or I'll wing it somehow) but please don't hesitate to provide me with any tip you can think of (like a quick rule of thumb for skill DC conversion, if the 2E math is much different; thx!)

Whew; that's good to hear!

Alas, there's no real "quick rule of thumb" for 1st edition DCs; fixing that problem was one of the many improvements we did with 2nd edition. I've not really had my head in 1st edition DCs for over half a decade now so I'm not the best to give advice there these days, but I'm sure that there'll be plenty of others who are tackling the same issue in their 1E games and can provide better advice. You can also, of course, look to the DCs we include in the monster and NPC stat blocks and equate them over to the parts of the game where they appear for examples, I suppose.

Beyond having the stats, the biggest thing that might trip up a 1E player is the treasure that gets put into the Adventure Path. A lot of the magic items are differently named or just work different, so you'll probably want to go through and rebuild all those treasures using resources you have. In particular, 2nd edition doesn't really use a lot of the ability boosting items, cloaks of resistance, amulets of natural armor, or rings of protection, so you'll want to adjust for those things not being in there too.

One great way to handle the treasures is to just reference the same encounter as it appeared in the original 1st edition version of the campaign, though.

I had noticed that others were having trouble with their orders shipping? I got a notice that it was to ship, but also had moved since this had all taken place. Sent in my new address an such. Sent an email to customer service, but no answer back on shipping! Would LOVE to have this in my hands soon or even the PDF'S.

@James/Aaron: going through the PDFs now and yes Sires, this is indeed a masterpiece! well worth the wait. Thanks to everyone involved in this monumental project.

PS: I'm going to run this with a 1E group, and was pleasantly surprised at the extensive 1E Bestiary add-on! the sheer amount of stat blocks in this book is impressive and will be a good addition to my 1E library. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have an easy time adapting the rest of the adventure to 1E (or I'll wing it somehow) but please don't hesitate to provide me with any tip you can think of (like a quick rule of thumb for skill DC conversion, if the 2E math is much different; thx!)

I think the best mindset for converting would be to not think about "how does DC23 translate from 2E to 1E?" but look at the situation and decide what DC would be appropiate from a 1E perspective.

Tbh you can actually use DCs from 2e in 1e without much of change <_< It will create some weirdness yes, but while 1e skill math is borked, the 2e untrained/trained/expert/master/legendary simple dc examples actually make sense in 1e's skill charts for most parts.

Like thing is that in 1e dcs aren't based on anything besides "10 or 15 for kinda easy, 20 for tough, 25 or 30 for pretty tough, 35 is highest core book example dcs, in aps 40 is like when writers want to demonstrate something being really hard and 50 is when gm realizes party succeed dc 40 automatically and gets desperate". So the "untrained 10, trained 15, expert 20, master 30, legendary 40" actually translates really well, only main difference is that some dcs in 1e scale really badly(15 + charisma modifier for example. Though there is also "number plus hd" dcs) so they would be very fast automatical successes while in 2e they'd be harder.

1e dcs in general can cap out really low when you actually look at different skill charts, at least when you consider PC ability to stack modifiers up to +20 before level 10 ^_^; So unless you want to homebrew 1e dcs to make sense, you can honestly use 2e dcs since they follow usually similar range(aka dcs for highest checks usually cap out in similar range). Like to my delight when I was looking at dcs in jade regent dungeon in 1e, they actually made sense in 2e (like in 2e, smooth wall is considered dc 30 and this level 10 around dungeon had climb dc around 25 or 30 depending on room in latter case because of smooth walls)

Arbitrary setting DCs in PF1 adventures doesn't really make much sense anyway due to how massive the discrepancies in skill bonuses are. Adventure author might have the idea that DC 40 is nigh-impossible epic difficulty at level 12 but here comes a moderately optimised PC with a +38 skill bonus. It's really best to tailor these DCs to your group to avoid the situation where a character trivialises "impossible" challenges.

That or you just go with philosophy of "The optimized character will automatically succeed and thats okay" :'D (which does make asking for skill rolls arbitrary yes)

Oh I realized, there is one more alternative:

You could adapt the starfinder skill math of
trivial = 5 + 1.5 * task level
easy 10 + 1.5 * task level
challenging 15 + 1.5 * task level
hard 20 + 1.5 * task level
impossible 25 + 1.5 * task level

It still won't be perfect for 1e because starfinder skill bonuses are much more limited than in 1e, but since starfinder also follows the "skill ranks and class skills" format, it might be good alternative to consider.

Starfinder is ... weird. It's super conservative with skill bonuses, unlike PF1/like PF2, but then it has Operatives who break the game with their class levels to skill bonus that puts them ahead of everyone else.

But still, "impossible" for a level 12 task would be DC 43, and you can easily hit that if you stretch your legs a bit in PF1.

granted, not everyone in party can make the dc with every skill, so any skill challenges that require multiple successes would be much harder

Must say that it's disappointing that Paizo shipping for US customers doesn't seem to have been synchronised with overseas partners. Can't see why Paizo should be "asking for updates" from partners when US customers seem to be receiving physical books already. Given they are shipping from partners fairly local to international customers, someone should have coordinated so that backers all receive physical products at about the same time (or at least they ship at the same time). Think it's a public holiday in the US today so don't expect any updates until tomorrow but we really should be told when the products we've paid for are shipping.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

You can also, of course, look to the DCs we include in the monster and NPC stat blocks and equate them over to the parts of the game where they appear for examples, I suppose.[...] In particular, 2nd edition doesn't really use a lot of the ability boosting items, cloaks of resistance, amulets of natural armor, or rings of protection, so you'll want to adjust for those things not being in there too.

One great way to handle the treasures is to just reference the same encounter as it appeared in the original 1st edition version of the campaign, though.

Great advice, as always. Thanks for that. And for treasure equivalencies, I may just pull things out of my hat as I go, kinda like the video game, where the party makes millions of gold pieces one moment, and then has to spend double that amount to fund the Kingdom... :P

Anyway, nothing I can't handle after all this time GMing Pathfinder... ;)

Tbh you can actually use DCs from 2e in 1e without much of change <_< It will create some weirdness yes, but while 1e skill math is borked, the 2e untrained/trained/expert/master/legendary simple dc examples actually make sense in 1e's skill charts for most parts.

HUZZAH! even less work for me!

Must say that it's disappointing that Paizo shipping for US customers doesn't seem to have been synchronised with overseas partners. Can't see why Paizo should be "asking for updates" from partners when US customers seem to be receiving physical books already. Given they are shipping from partners fairly local to international customers, someone should have coordinated so that backers all receive physical products at about the same time (or at least they ship at the same time). Think it's a public holiday in the US today so don't expect any updates until tomorrow but we really should be told when the products we've paid for are shipping.

Pretty much every crowdfunded campaign I have been backed or followed that has or is shipping products in the last couple of years has abandoned any attempt to coordinate shipments internationally. The current state of shipping is too unpredictable to allow for it. The once or twice it was suggested, most backers told creators not to even try.

As someone stuck in Australia, where I will likely be one of the last to receive physical goods, I choose to savor what other share when they receive theirs. I live vicariously through their joy.

Medriev wrote:

Must say that it's disappointing that Paizo shipping for US customers doesn't seem to have been synchronised with overseas partners. Can't see why Paizo should be "asking for updates" from partners when US customers seem to be receiving physical books already. Given they are shipping from partners fairly local to international customers, someone should have coordinated so that backers all receive physical products at about the same time (or at least they ship at the same time). Think it's a public holiday in the US today so don't expect any updates until tomorrow but we really should be told when the products we've paid for are shipping.

Pretty much every crowdfunded campaign I have been backed or followed that has or is shipping products in the last couple of years has abandoned any attempt to coordinate shipments internationally. The current state of shipping is too unpredictable to allow for it. The once or twice it was suggested, most backers told creators not to even try.

As someone stuck in Australia, where I will likely be one of the last to receive physical goods, I choose to savor what other share when they receive theirs. I live vicariously through their joy.

Thanks. Appreciate the insights on other campaigns.

Doesn't really seem too tricky to me, though, in that you wait until all your fulfillment partners have confirmed they have all the products they need to ship and then agree with them when you will all commence shipping. Any other solution prioritises the continental US which is hardly fair to backers elsewhere whose money is just as good as everyone else's. I don't think a level playing field is too much to ask for, given the significant amount of my money Paizo has had for more than 3 years, nor is it frankly too difficult to achieve.

Okay but it they did that, you'd have just as many backers complaining about yet another delay to their products that, as you pointed out, they've been waiting for three years for. It's a no-win situation, and considering Paizo is based in the US, of course, that's who gets prioritized. You might not think it's fair, but it is what it is.

It is what it is. Even companies like Paizo do apply the America first principle …. it is just so ingrained in American thinking. Not much to be done about it.

If the materials would have arrived in Australia or Europe first (not impossible from China) i expect they would have held the shipping until US was ready, as not to annoy their US customers. That they don’t do the reverse is telling enough.

However happy that the PDFs were distributed in parallel everywhere.

Okay but it they did that, you'd have just as many backers complaining about yet another delay to their products that, as you pointed out, they've been waiting for three years for. It's a no-win situation, and considering Paizo is based in the US, of course, that's who gets prioritized. You might not think it's fair, but it is what it is.

Not if they managed expectations on shipping dates and only sent shipping confirmations to US backers once they knew they were going to ship to RoW backers as well at the same time. The publicised shipping window is September and so if Paizo set a date later in the month and honoured it for everyone then no one would be complaining. The issue seems to be that they have begun shipping for US customers before international partners are ready. Setting a realistic timeline that works for everyone seems like fairly basic project management and customer relationship management to me.

And I would add that it is demonstrably unfair, not just something I think, but appreciate I'm in a minority as complaining about Paizo isn't popular here (as I've found out before) so guess I'll shut up and go back to waiting.

What is the anticipated end of shipping? I have my PDFs but hope to have the physical products to look at soon too!

What is the anticipated end of shipping? I have my PDFs but hope to have the physical products to look at soon too!

FYI, I got my "about to ship" in 11-20 business days on 25 August, so hopefully at worst, 23 September if it is 20 days. Today is day 7. New York state, USA, and I have downloaded my PDFs.

-- david

Cori Marie wrote:

Okay but it they did that, you'd have just as many backers complaining about yet another delay to their products that, as you pointed out, they've been waiting for three years for. It's a no-win situation, and considering Paizo is based in the US, of course, that's who gets prioritized. You might not think it's fair, but it is what it is.

Not if they managed expectations on shipping dates and only sent shipping confirmations to US backers once they knew they were going to ship to RoW backers as well at the same time. The publicised shipping window is September and so if Paizo set a date later in the month and honoured it for everyone then no one would be complaining. The issue seems to be that they have begun shipping for US customers before international partners are ready. Setting a realistic timeline that works for everyone seems like fairly basic project management and customer relationship management to me.

And I would add that it is demonstrably unfair, not just something I think, but appreciate I'm in a minority as complaining about Paizo isn't popular here (as I've found out before) so guess I'll shut up and go back to waiting.

My bud, when the shipping date was pushed to September back earlier this year, there was an uproar from people, despite it being communicated over six months in advance. If they changed the target date again at the last minute you don't think there would have been more of an uproar? How very optimistic of you.

I do not see these products in the Release Schedule at the bottom of this page.

My bud, when the shipping date was pushed to September back earlier this year, there was an uproar from people, despite it being communicated over six months in advance. If they changed the target date again at the last minute you don't think there would have been more of an uproar? How very optimistic of you.

Thanks. Would be grateful if you could dial back the sarcasm if you don't mind.

I spent hard earned money backing this project and I'm entitled to offer an opinion after waiting patiently for three years and more about how distribution should have been handled. I rarely frequent these boards any more because if anyone raises a word of dissent there are always people who pile in to tell them why their opinion isn't valid. This "community" needs to do better and be more respectful of those who are not happy with the service they are getting.

I was basically bullied out of this "community" a year or so ago for raising issues about bad customer service. It won't happen again.

And I'll wait patiently for those who inevitably pile in and tell me that "this is the internet" and I should live with it.

I do not see these products in the Release Schedule at the bottom of this page.

Correct. This is intentional. We are only shipping to backers at this time. The product pages have not gone live to the public, so they don't show on the Release Schedule yet.

In case any other UK backers are interested, I've had this from Spiral Galaxy Games (Paizo's UK fulfillment partner):

"Kingmaker is onboarding right now with all data and stock still arriving on site. Its been a little slow on information this one so we didn't want to post up until we were certain everything was in place. That said I expect this to be moving in the near future."

Obviously, would have been nice to get this update from Paizo given than it confirms that shipping is not yet underway for UK backers but an update is an update.

Obviously, would have been nice to get this update from Paizo given than it confirms that shipping is not yet underway for UK backers but an update is an update.

The shipping announcement on gameontabletop says all shipping updates will come from the select distributors rather than Paizo. That said, I’m in the US and haven’t had my stuff shipped so you’re not that far behind the curve just yet.

As I understand it the books came into our warehouse, we split them up, and shipped them to the international distributors—so the retailers can sell them in late October, and our partners—so that backers can get them, and now we are shipping to the backers themselves. We are not waiting and the process is going as fast as the international distribution systems allows. Thank you!

It is what it is. Even companies like Paizo do apply the America first principle …. it is just so ingrained in American thinking. Not much to be done about it.

US is their biggest market, I think, so it seems logical to serve them first if simultaneous doesn't work (and it appears from Aaron's comments that all the books were shipped to Paizo and then split up to international distributors, so it's not weird that US gets them first). Doesn't have to be "American thinking" at all, they were shipped to Paizo (to check them, I guess, and probably because it's cheaper to send one big batch to one place than to split it)

Kickstarters and the like doing this--not to mention distribution from most companies, pretty much--is just the norm. It is what it is, and it's not malicious but seems like it's a fairly natural sequence given the logistical constraints a mid-sized company has.

I spent hard earned money backing this project

there are always people who pile in to tell them why their opinion isn't valid.

No, there's people rebutting your opinion.

Why should you be allowed to post unopposed? That's basically your complaint here.

People disagreeing with you isn't automatically a personal attack against you.

Ageron wrote:

What is the anticipated end of shipping? I have my PDFs but hope to have the physical products to look at soon too!

FYI, I got my "about to ship" in 11-20 business days on 25 August, so hopefully at worst, 23 September if it is 20 days. Today is day 7. New York state, USA, and I have downloaded my PDFs.

-- david

What he said.

Cori Marie wrote:

My bud, when the shipping date was pushed to September back earlier this year, there was an uproar from people, despite it being communicated over six months in advance. If they changed the target date again at the last minute you don't think there would have been more of an uproar? How very optimistic of you.

Thanks. Would be grateful if you could dial back the sarcasm if you don't mind.

I spent hard earned money backing this project and I'm entitled to offer an opinion after waiting patiently for three years and more about how distribution should have been handled. I rarely frequent these boards any more because if anyone raises a word of dissent there are always people who pile in to tell them why their opinion isn't valid. This "community" needs to do better and be more respectful of those who are not happy with the service they are getting.

I was basically bullied out of this "community" a year or so ago for raising issues about bad customer service. It won't happen again.

And I'll wait patiently for those who inevitably pile in and tell me that "this is the internet" and I should live with it.

Your opinion is quite valid. The way you share it needs some work. I'm pissed that it isn't a 1e love fest, but I will take my 1e book and pretend the 2e parts are a misprint. We are all a bit upset about something and as long as we are all equally frustrated, I can live with the imperfections in both product and process.

My books arrived yesterday and they look very nice. Well done, Paizo.

Here's hoping I have considerable mail today.

Mine has arrived. Great job packing this I must say.

Mine arrived yesterday, here's a quick unboxing video.

I'm excited that this has finally arrived after many delays and I'm looking forward to digging in and running Kingmaker later this year/early next year.

here's a quick unboxing video.

23:56

I mean...

Jickoby wrote:

here's a quick unboxing video.

23:56

I mean...

Lol fair enough. I suppose I should have said "here's an unboxing video I quickly put together because I was excited."

Got my notice yesterday, hopefully it will get here by the weekend. Nothing on USPS Informed Delivery yet.

Medriev wrote:

I spent hard earned money backing this project

So did every other backer

Medriev wrote:

there are always people who pile in to tell them why their opinion isn't valid.

No, there's people rebutting your opinion.

Why should you be allowed to post unopposed? That's basically your complaint here.

People disagreeing with you isn't automatically a personal attack against you.

My complaint is not that I should post without people replying or debating the points I am making and it's disingenuous to suggest that. Your use of the word unopposed is interesting as it suggests the need to "oppose" my personal views about the service I am receiving for money I paid out. That's probably where the problem lies. This isn't a confrontation with the community, I am simply trying to find answers to something that Paizo is conspicuously silent on.

I am happy to have a constructive debate but people don't engage with the content of posts that complain, but instead just offer explanations of why I shouldn't feel how I feel or indeed share it here (which I only did reluctantly due to a lack of communication from Paizo). This is why I stopped engaging with this "community" last year (and flagged a number of posts that amounted to bullying to Paizo that they did absolutely nothing about) and why I already regret engaging with it again now.

There is debate and then there is essentially telling someone their opinion is irrelevant which is what generally happens here. Once again, I wonder why I bother trying to raise things here.

I also wonder that.