Core Principles: Rewarding Heroism in the Pathfinder ACG

Friday, April 26, 2019

Keith here, to talk about something pretty darn shiny that we've added to the game. At the end of the day, we all like toys. And I'll admit that sometimes I've wanted to get them faster than the game has offered them. For instance, I love power feats, so waiting to win 10 scenarios in Wrath of the Righteous to get my first was frustrating.

No more.

We've been hinting for a while that we did something fun with the backs of all of those markers we added to the game. Time to spill the beans: The Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Core Set introduces a new game mechanic and resource called hero points. They do a whole lot of fun things.

First, when you are rewarded with a hero point, you can immediately spend it to gain a card, power, or skill feat—your choice. Now, you can take those feats in whatever order is best for your character and your group. Just got a fantastic loot card? Maybe a card feat is in order. Botched a vital roll by 1 and it's bothering you? Skill feat. Or take one of those sweet power feats to spice things up a bit. This new reward system increases your ability to decide how your character develops, but it does have limitations to keep things from flying entirely out of control: the number of feats you can have of each type is limited to the # of the adventure you're playing. So while you're playing adventure 2, you can gain up to 2 skill feats, 2 power feats, and 2 card feats.

So what do you do with your hero points when you're not buying a feat? Use them to be heroic! Or at least luckier. During a scenario, you can spend a hero point to reroll all the dice on your check. Just missed on your check to defeat the villain, and failing it will mean you fail the scenario, or perhaps even die? Or maybe you've found that fantastic boon you've been chasing, and you botched the check to acquire. You'll be glad to have a spare hero point for a reroll.

You might also want to keep a hero point on hand for their most powerful use: If you die during a scenario, spend all your remaining hero points at the end, and you're no longer dead. This provides a reasonable compromise between those who feel death should never be permanent (always have at least one hero point on hand!) and those who think it should always be permanent (spend those hero points on rerolls, so you're not going down without a fight). Death still packs enough of a punch to add consequence to your choices, but not so much that a risky decision or moment of bad luck might derail your entire Adventure Path.

The number of hero points you collect varies by Adventure Path, giving each a different feel. The Dragon's Demand gives you just enough that dying too much will eat into feats, so play carefully. Curse of the Crimson Throne thinks you might need some of those rerolls, so it gives out a few more hero points.

Sometimes a reroll is handy. And sometimes failure is not an option.

Starting at PaizoCon, the freshly renamed Pathfinder Adventure Card Society replaces die bumps with hero points, and greatly simplifies its schedule for taking feats: every new scenario you complete gives you a hero point. This also helps cover for the occasionally missed scenario or mishap that might arise from playing with strangers at conventions.

Since we're talking a bit about feats, let's talk about roles. Remember when I said I get frustrated waiting for power feats? I also get impatient waiting for role cards. And I'm not alone. There are many discussions around which order to take power feats on a character before you get your role, because you generally have to take almost all of them, and you have to play for probably more than half your character's career before you open up more options with your role.

No more.

(Okay, so that seemed less dramatic the second time. Well, anyway‚ After extensive testing and gathering opinions, we've moved roles to show up a bit earlier. In Dragon's Demand, you gain your role as the reward for adventure 2, and Crimson Throne gives out roles after the first scenario of adventure 3. And the new Pathfinder Adventure Card Society reward structure will give you your role along with your third power feat. In all three cases, that means you'll select your third power feat from your shiny new role card.

Lini speaks softly, but Kyra carries a big flaming sword.

So, your level 3 Kyra Smiter can always have a weapon or Attack spell or be great at avenging. Your level 3 Lini Wild Whisperer can wild shape her way through all sorts of physical problems or ensure she can always heal her Animal allies.

With cards this great, never let them leave your side.

We've got a small mountain of blogs lined up for you to carry us through to release. I've got three open on my desktop now: one on how embracing randomness really opens up options; one on all of the awesome stuff in Curse like Harrows and Supporters; and a wrap-up of Season of Tapestry's Tide since the final chapter just got released this week! Jump on board, it's time to defeat a Voidlord. See you again soon!

Keith Richmond
Adventure Card Game Designer

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Tags: Pathfinder Adventure Card Game
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Mike Selinker wrote:
Cantide wrote:
So wait, if the adventure deck number limits the number of feats you can have, does that mean 6 is the new upper limit on power feats? Or will we be going from Adventure 0-6 to 1-7 instead?
This will be discussed in an upcoming blog. Hang loose.

Still hanging loose...

Up to now I haven't seen a way to get more than 6 power feats, unless I play Dragon Demand and then CotCC with increasing the difficulty level and considering CotCC to be levels 4 to 9.
I'd like to get the upcoming blog soonish so we don't realize too late in our adventure that we missed some opportunities...


emky wrote:
Better to sit at a spot and let the clock run out than to risk character (and feat) losses...

This is exactly why in our home games, we always add a penalty for failing a scenario.

Good thing is with Core we have an easy one:
Lose a scenario = lose a Hero point.
Works great.

Lone Shark Games

Core and Curse give out feats at the fastest rate of any of our Adventure Paths, though it's true that they have a lower cap than our previous 33-36 scenario paths.

In Organized Play and Curse (see 7A's reward), we already give out the ability to exceed that cap by 1 when appropriate, and that's the same tech we'd use for any future paths that might include more scenarios or go higher level.

We actually tested failing scenarios costing a hero point at one point for precisely that reasons. It didn't make the cut for the game overall, but - as always - please play it your way!


Cool. Indeed we were having (in home games) exactly those mixed feelings :
- winning feats (too) fast
- not enough scenarios / level
- not being able to use more that 3 power feats or card feats
Obviously those being very interdependent

I guess it's just a matter for us to add some homebrew scenarios in each level and to raise the feat cap - maybe adding difficulties (and there are many ways to do it now) to balance.


Frencois wrote:
- winning feats too fast

- said no PACG player I know, ever. Just thought I'd add a diverse opinion ;)

Frencois wrote:
- not enough scenarios / level

Actually, we had similar concerns. However, we realize that the reduced total number of scenarios would make it that much more likely that we'd actually finish an AP in under a year. I strongly suspect that might have been Lone Sharks leading motivation here.

Frencois wrote:
- not being able to use more that 3 power feats or card feats

- wait, what? Are you talking about DD only being 3 adventures long, or am I missing something?

Finally, what is the lower cap that Keith is talking about? Is it that your Role power feat actually counts as your L3 power feat, or is something else? Even so, Card and Skill feat rules in general seem to remain unchanged (at 6 feats each for an AP) - or is some change thereas well??

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

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Longshot11 wrote:

Finally, what is the lower cap that Keith is talking about? Is it that your Role power feat actually counts as your L3 power feat, or is something else? Even so, Card and Skill feat rules in general seem to remain unchanged (at 6 feats each for an AP) - or is some change thereas well??

Yes I think Keith was referring to having one fewer overall power feat because you don't get a free one from gaining your role anymore.


Longshot11 wrote:
Frencois wrote:
- not being able to use more that 3 power feats or card feats

- wait, what? Are you talking about DD only being 3 adventures long, or am I missing something?

No it's me not being clear, I meant to say, even if you get them "fast", ultimately you have less feats to play with, and for much less time, at higher level.

We LOVE our characters. We want to play them for MANY scenarios.
Usually we play on saturdays every other week or so, and each time we may end up playing 2-3 scenarios. That means in 6 months you may have 30 scenarios played. I was cool that an adventure last that long.

If you look at when you get your 6th power or card feat and how many you get when you play the final 6th level scenario it end up (if you convert your first Hero point in a power feat and the second in a card feat at level 6, assuming you get an Hero point for each of the two first scenarios of level 6 - if not you get feats even later).

You get your 6th power feat after / [you start last scenario with]
RoR 5C [7]
S&S 5A [7]
WotR 5B [9]
MM 5C [7]
CotCC 6A [6]

You get your 6th card feat after / [you start last scenario with]
RoR 5E [6]
S&S 5E [6]
WotR 4B [8]
MM 5E [7]
CotCC 6B [6]

That's what I meant that with Core it seems you get them fast... but in fact you get them late and end up with less features to play with at the end.

I'm happy they managed not to overpower Pre-Core with Core (no arms race that would kill the use of Pre-Core cards), but I'm not sure on the opposite that they needed to nerf/downsize the thing.


On the other hand Core and Crimson give you the rules to keep playing with your characters with out of the story content. Sure it isn't infinite, but even if you play each of the random scenarios only once, thats still an extra 8 games with your fully unlocked characters, without needing to homebrew anything.

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