Return of the Runelords Begins!

James Jacobs wrote:

Paladinosaur wrote:

Also, why are the forehead gems gone?

Because sometimes they wear different stuff.

Aren’t those like... surgically implanted though?

Maybe they have Kyton surgeons on staff.

Just realised that Sorshen's polearm is double-headed in the sense that there is a blade at both ends. Wasn't the original plan that it be double-headed in the sense that one end has two blades?

Nope. The original plan was to have two side-by-side blades at the end, but a mixup with the artist the first time we ordered her with her weapon combined with the fact that we got the final art in at the very last minute and it was too late to make changes ended up scuttling that plan.

Her weapon does have blades at either end, but it is not used as a double weapon. Among other things it's a speed weapon, and its flavor is that when one makes the additional attack with the speed quality that strike comes from the second blade.

So yes, the original plan was indeed that it be double-headed in the sense that only one end has two blades, only the original artist (for ISMagic) misunderstood the art order which then caused that plan to change?

And now the flavour has been adjusted to fit the original (and new) art. :)

So many plat twists in just one art... So that's a Runelord level of scheming?

I am pleased by this.

...

And methinks Nocticula's New Groove has her first "convert." Which makes sense. If the Queen of the Succubi can aspire to be something other than a demon, then why not the Runelord of Lust (who presumably, given the Directorsaur's love of all things demonic, especially for Thassilonian heavies, was probably one of Nocticula's faithful way back when)?

(who presumably, given the Directorsaur's love of all things demonic, especially for Thassilonian heavies, was probably one of Nocticula's faithful way back when)?

Shattered Star's second module suggests as much.

I truly hope that Paizo does one of two things. Either they put out some rules on how to translate these APs over to 2nd edition (as I'm liking what I'm seeing of 2nd edition but truly love the Runelords series of APs) or that you put out new hardcover books for the Runelords Trilogy as 2nd Edition APs.

I mean, I'd buy them. I suspect a lot of folk would. But you could always do a Kickstarter or the like on that to gauge preorders and how much of these should be printed and adapted to 2nd Edition.

I suspect that'd be a good choice for modules that are deemed popular enough for a formal reprint or hardcover. Probably be good for this trilogy / Sihedron Heroes stories. Maybe Kingmaker too, eh?

Otherwise, translating the rest of them might be a great community project if given allowance!

I'm a little surprised at how...up-to-date their sense of fashion is. I'd have thought they'd look a bit more Greco-Roman, or whatever ancient Azlanti fashion looked like.

I am a little confused by play test banner in the blogpost. Is this part of the play test or P1?

So. Very. Cool.

Thank you James, for making this, and everything else you and your teammates brought to my table this last decade. No matter what changes PF2 makes to our relationship moving forward, we'll always have Paris.

James Jacobs wrote:

Paladinosaur wrote:

Also, why are the forehead gems gone?

Because sometimes they wear different stuff.

Aren’t those like... surgically implanted though?

Karzoug's were.

The others, maybe not.

Won't make a difference as to how tough they are when your PCs fight them though, never fear.

I am a little confused by play test banner in the blogpost. Is this part of the play test or P1?

No. This is a 1st edition product. The playtest banner is an error.

I'm a little surprised at how...up-to-date their sense of fashion is. I'd have thought they'd look a bit more Greco-Roman, or whatever ancient Azlanti fashion looked like.

Thassilon is Thassilonian, not Greek or Roman. The game isn't intended to be a real world historical Earth parallel, and mixing in modern fashions mixed with ancient fashions is a great way to make up fantastic/fantasy fashions.

Also, let's try to keep the 2nd edition feedback to the Playtest forums... and when you DO give feedback, give us feedback we can use; rather than saying blanket statements like "It's a mess" please tell us specific things that bother you and why they bother you so we can look at those rules for adjustment. Just saying "It's a mess" is pretty much useless to us, since it doesn't give us any feedback we can act on.

I still have no regrets for trying to wake up Alaznist in my group's RotRL. Oh boy it'll be interesting for this AP if we still run with me having a thing for her. XD

Also thumbs up for all the outfits, especially Sorshen. Her evolution is going to be something I'm looking forward to seeing where you go. :)

Sorshen's new outfit is not just a result of "new artist" but a deliberate plot point that'll be revealed in the AP. There'll be some new art of Karzoug, but not a new body shot.

And the post being headed by the Playtest logo is an error. Return of the Runelords is 1st edition Pathfinder all the way.

Is it because of this?

Did Krune somehow survive The Waking Rune?

James Jacobs wrote:

Sorshen's new outfit is not just a result of "new artist" but a deliberate plot point that'll be revealed in the AP. There'll be some new art of Karzoug, but not a new body shot.

And the post being headed by the Playtest logo is an error. Return of the Runelords is 1st edition Pathfinder all the way.

Is it because of this?

** spoiler omitted **

Not so much that as it is...

It's covered more as the AP comes out. Don't wanna spoil it all here.

Did Krune somehow survive The Waking Rune?

Tangent101 wrote:

I truly hope that Paizo does one of two things. Either they put out some rules on how to translate these APs over to 2nd edition (as I'm liking what I'm seeing of 2nd edition but truly love the Runelords series of APs) or that you put out new hardcover books for the Runelords Trilogy as 2nd Edition APs.

I mean, I'd buy them. I suspect a lot of folk would. But you could always do a Kickstarter or the like on that to gauge preorders and how much of these should be printed and adapted to 2nd Edition.

I suspect that'd be a good choice for modules that are deemed popular enough for a formal reprint or hardcover. Probably be good for this trilogy / Sihedron Heroes stories. Maybe Kingmaker too, eh?

Otherwise, translating the rest of them might be a great community project if given allowance!

Well, Kingmaker's got a computer game coming out, so you should see a lot of folk playing it who didn't get a chance with the original tabletop game. I'm actually looking forward to it as I put in for a copy during the crowdfunding efforts.

As for community translations... I think this is an excellent idea and hopefully Paizo backs this, assuming they don't decide to translate any of these to 2nd Edition. One of the fun things about such a translation of course is that with the new XP system, it's easier to allow people run characters running through level 20 in each AP - though I'm not entirely sure how you could set up the final encounters with Karzoug and have him be a viable threat seeing level 20 characters would match him in power... and for that matter some of the Runelords are Mythic and Mythic is taking a back seat for now with Pathfinder 2.

Given the Big Bad of Return of the Runelords was Mythic before things went south for the Runelords, I'd not be surprised if she retains at least a couple Mythic Tiers going into the end-game - it actually is quite effective in creating interesting and challenging foes for players of similar level. Seeing Alazzy can't really get beyond Level 20 in any event, and doesn't have access to Conjuration magic unless she's burning a Wish or has a Staff or other conjuration-based magic item, she's not going to have easy access to minions to burn up PC action economy. Mythic helps level the playing field in that case.

I do hope that they are not planning to do any of the "redemption" BS for any of the Runelords.

From what we know about Thassilonian culture from the earlier APs, all seven Runelords were COMPLETE MONSTERS and there is a certain magnitude of evil from which there is no coming back from.

Consider that Ileosa Arabasti was recreating the ritual that Sorshen used to insure her eternal beauty - a sacrifice requiring the lives of hundreds of people.

I mean, I'd buy them. I suspect a lot of folk would. But you could always do a Kickstarter or the like on that to gauge preorders and how much of these should be printed and adapted to 2nd Edition.

i hope the people at RPTOOLS.net do a suitable Maptools framework for pathfinder 2.0 or im out cause the bestiary is to much of a hassle for me as a DM. i dont understand the removal of the attributes, didnt like it in Starfinder either.

Lord Fyre wrote:

Did Krune somehow survive The Waking Rune?

** spoiler omitted **

I should still find some way to play through that scenario if I want the full Varisian campaign experience, right? I'd feel like I'm missing a chunk of the settings "metaplot" otherwise.

James Jacobs wrote:

Lord Fyre wrote:

Did Krune somehow survive The Waking Rune?

** spoiler omitted **

I should still find some way to play through that scenario if I want the full Varisian campaign experience, right? I'd feel like I'm missing a chunk of the settings "metaplot" otherwise.

It’s not just one adventure, APZ. It’s 3-4 of them.

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Lord Fyre wrote:

Did Krune somehow survive The Waking Rune?

** spoiler omitted **

I should still find some way to play through that scenario if I want the full Varisian campaign experience, right? I'd feel like I'm missing a chunk of the settings "metaplot" otherwise.

It’s not just one adventure, APZ. It’s 3-4 of them.

And that's what makes me frustrated: I had initially thought I could safely ignore PFS modules and that they didn't impact the setting and stuff, and then not only is there several of them where they confront and kill a Runelord, and other things are referenced in other books (like that tapestry the Society won that is a parallel dimension and stuff), and I realize I have to play through YEARS of modules with no clear clue of how they fit together into a narrative-style campaign and I'd probably have to run them myself because everyone else has already moved on and I couldn't do it anyway because I suck at GMing, and that means my Pathfinder experience will always essentially be incomplete! *screams into pillow*

Dude. If it is that big a deal, I will run them for you.

Tarondor wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Lord Fyre wrote:

Did Krune somehow survive The Waking Rune?

** spoiler omitted **

I should still find some way to play through that scenario if I want the full Varisian campaign experience, right? I'd feel like I'm missing a chunk of the settings "metaplot" otherwise.

It’s not just one adventure, APZ. It’s 3-4 of them.

And that's what makes me frustrated: I had initially thought I could safely ignore PFS modules and that they didn't impact the setting and stuff, and then not only is there several of them where they confront and kill a Runelord, and other things are referenced in other books (like that tapestry the Society won that is a parallel dimension and stuff), and I realize I have to play through YEARS of modules with no clear clue of how they fit together into a narrative-style campaign and I'd probably have to run them myself because everyone else has already moved on and I couldn't do it anyway because I suck at GMing, and that means my Pathfinder experience will always essentially be incomplete! *screams into pillow*

There is also another Runelord killed in one of the novels (It is mentioned in Secrets of Roderics Cove). So you probably want to read some books too. I suspect the comics are a part of cannon Golarion also.

I find the obsession with needing to know every scrap of lore in order to play kinda funny. Take it like each gm has their own setting which simply resembles Golarion.

Also, if TriOmegaZero runs them all, I might be interested in joining in such a group.

---
Note: My last post was not intended as a critique of pf2, therefore no need to shuffle it off to feedback forums. Pf2 is a thing. It can be mentioned and referenced without being the central topic, kinda like how we can mention the blue skies without needing a special forum for it.

I find the obsession with needing to know every scrap of lore in order to play kinda funny. Take it like each gm has their own setting which simply resembles Golarion.

I really, REALLY don't like it when a character I make ends up conflicting with canon, especially if later canon emerges that invalidates it. It makes me feel like I interpreted the game or the story wrong. Like I ordered a pizza and then when you found out you said "Why'd you do that? We were planning on grilling burgers for dinner!" And then I feel like the jerk for ordering the pizza.

Canon is immaterial.

That being said, I entirely understand wanting to experience as much of the story as possible. I enjoy seeing everything that exists in a series, which as an anime fan can be difficult. (Umineko answer arc season WHEN?) Tabletop is compounded by the need to schedule multiple people at the same time for weeks at a time.

Also, if TriOmegaZero runs them all, I might be interested in joining in such a group.

Well, that's half a group. :)

I really, REALLY don't like it when a character I make ends up conflicting with canon, especially if later canon emerges that invalidates it. It makes me feel like I interpreted the game or the story wrong. Like I ordered a pizza and then when you found out you said "Why'd you do that? We were planning on grilling burgers for dinner!" And then I feel like the jerk for ordering the pizza.

Pizza AND Burgers is not wrong.

...and neither is however you want to interpret the game or story.

Speaking for myself as a writer, if I wanted to control the canon I would write novels. When writing for games, I fully expect the end user to reinterpret anything and everything.

A major part of what makes an RPG an RPg, is player agency. You simply can't have player agency and a canon to match for events during or after the player's choices unless the canon is literally written based on that player's choices.

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

I really, REALLY don't like it when a character I make ends up conflicting with canon, especially if later canon emerges that invalidates it. It makes me feel like I interpreted the game or the story wrong. Like I ordered a pizza and then when you found out you said "Why'd you do that? We were planning on grilling burgers for dinner!" And then I feel like the jerk for ordering the pizza.

Pizza AND Burgers is not wrong.

...and neither is however you want to interpret the game or story.

Speaking for myself as a writer, if I wanted to control the canon I would write novels. When writing for games, I fully expect the end user to reinterpret anything and everything.

You know, I've gotten feedback along those lines:

"If this unified narrative idea means so much to you, couldn't you just write Adventure Path fanfiction?"

And I don't know how to react to that, because it feels disrespectful to the setting, since it's a game to be played, and because I have a lot of weird hangups with fanfiction in the first place.

But we should really get back on topic, this is about the first book in the AP, which is GREAT, not about psychoanalyzing my RPG neuroses.

What's wrong with fanfiction?

Did they ever officially list what Sorshen's alignment were at the Time of Earthfall? Most home brew stats I've seen list her as being Chaotic Evil. I ask because....

So you probably want to read some books too. I suspect the comics are a part of cannon Golarion also.

I took the line

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

Tarondor wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Lord Fyre wrote:

Did Krune somehow survive The Waking Rune?

** spoiler omitted **

I should still find some way to play through that scenario if I want the full Varisian campaign experience, right? I'd feel like I'm missing a chunk of the settings "metaplot" otherwise.

It’s not just one adventure, APZ. It’s 3-4 of them.

And that's what makes me frustrated: I had initially thought I could safely ignore PFS modules and that they didn't impact the setting and stuff, and then not only is there several of them where they confront and kill a Runelord, and other things are referenced in other books (like that tapestry the Society won that is a parallel dimension and stuff), and I realize I have to play through YEARS of modules with no clear clue of how they fit together into a narrative-style campaign and I'd probably have to run them myself because everyone else has already moved on and I couldn't do it anyway because I suck at GMing, and that means my Pathfinder experience will always essentially be incomplete! *screams into pillow*

There is also another Runelord killed in one of the novels (It is mentioned in Secrets of Roderics Cove). So you probably want to read some books too. I suspect the comics are a part of cannon Golarion also.

For those that are wondering:

I do hope that they are not planning to do any of the "redemption" BS for any of the Runelords.

From what we know about Thassilonian culture from the earlier APs, all seven Runelords were COMPLETE MONSTERS and there is a certain magnitude of evil from which there is no coming back from.

Consider that Ileosa Arabasti was recreating the ritual that Sorshen used to insure her eternal beauty - a sacrifice requiring the lives of hundreds of people.

You do realize that