Unchained Skills and Feats

Thursday, April 9, 2015

If classes are the main chassis of a character, skills and feats are its nuts and bolts. When they let us designers loose in Pathfinder Unchained, it's only natural that we wanted to play around with how the nuts and bolts attach, and even try changing the shapes of those nuts and bolts entirely! In Chapters 2 and 3 of Pathfinder Unchained, there are not only several daring subsystems that play with feats, there so many different options for restructuring skills that it's easy to lose yourself in all the possibilities. I've gathered some of the coolest tidbits from all those options to share with you today!

Starting with skills, the three major skills options each serve a different goal.


Illustration by Géraud Soulié

I Need More Skills to Flesh Out My Character
The background skills variant separates out certain skills as background skills as opposed to adventuring skills. It also adds some new background skills to the game, such as Lore, a very specific version of the Knowledge skill. To round it out, everyone gains 2 extra skill points to spend on background skills, no matter your class!

There Are Too Many Skills
The consolidated skills variant serves a somewhat opposite goal, combining current skill functionality into only 12 skills.

Assigning Skill Points Can Be Tough
The grouped skills variant makes it easier to assign skills, speeding up the level-up process. It also gives characters a middle tier of skills that they are pretty good at, rather than most characters having mostly max ranks, 1 rank, or no ranks.

As cool as the skill sections are, the sections involving feats are the showstoppers of today's blog!

Variant Multiclassing
Have you ever wanted to multiclass your character for flavor reasons—maybe pick up some bardic performances and versatile performance to represent the time you unexpectedly spent studying music one adventure—but then you realized that your character would be pretty significantly handicapped by taking those two levels in bard? It happens all the time, and it requires you to sacrifice something whichever choice you take. With the variant multiclassing option, you can choose a secondary class and trade out half your feats (3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th) to instead gain a progression of special abilities based on which class you pick. Want to be a fighter who dabbles in divination magic such that he always acts on the surprise round or vexes his foes with hexes? You're covered. Want to be a druid who specializes in taking out dragons as her favored enemy or flies into a rage when the natural world is in danger? You've got that too. With variant multiclassing, you can open more combinations than ever before, without delaying your access to your main class's cool new features!

Stamina System
The stamina system offers new powers for every combat feat in the RPG line. Yes, you read that right: it specifically lists every combat feat in the whole line and then grants each feat new powers. Right from the start, the system offers options for you to just give the system to fighters or to give it to all martial characters, depending on your preference. Stamina is a new resource that allows martial characters to boost themselves and use their feats in new and exciting ways. It regenerates relatively quickly between battles, allowing you to enjoy an entirely new mindset to your daily exploration; a party of stamina-users benefits from hit and run guerilla tactics, emphasizing the value of mobility, stealth, and timing (as opposed to the mindset of "buff, buff, buff, speed through!"). Stamina lets you boost your effectiveness or change the rules of the feat in your favor. These special stamina powers are called combat tricks. While I'm sure that the ways to use stamina to boost your effectiveness will be quite popular (like Critical Focus, where under certain conditions, you can increase your critical multiplier, potentially multiple times if you roll high enough), I'm a fan of the combat tricks that let you retroactively apply an effect (like declare a Stunning Fist after you already know your attack connected), and my absolute favorites are the ones that let you trick your opponent through devious tactical play. For instance, the Combat Style Master combat trick allows you to spend stamina to switch your styles as an off-turn free action. So you can lure people into attacking you and then suddenly be in Snake Style before they can even call off the attack! In the same vein, I also really enjoy the combat tricks that let you use your powers when you normally couldn't, since that has two cool psychological effects: not only can it present great "gotcha" moments, but once your enemy knows you can, say, spend stamina to take a second attack of opportunity against them from the same opportunity, it changes the way they view your threat, and it might allow you to control their actions without even spending your stamina!

Tune in next time to learn more about magic—specifically, the new scaling magic items in Pathfinder Unchained that grow with your character!

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Dr. Johnny Fever wrote:
Oh man the multiclassing and stamina rules in PU might actually get me to take my unplayed fighter 20 build out of mothballs and give it a go!

Emphasis mine.

Lol, I hadn't considered the Paizo standard book code for Pathfinder: Unchained until now....that is unfortunate.


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Can'tFindthePath wrote:
Dr. Johnny Fever wrote:
Oh man the multiclassing and stamina rules in PU might actually get me to take my unplayed fighter 20 build out of mothballs and give it a go!

Emphasis mine.

Lol, I hadn't considered the Paizo standard book code for Pathfinder: Unchained until now....that is unfortunate.

Despite the name, these previews don't stink. I want more!

Scarab Sages

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Duskblade wrote:

So, after reading some of these comments, I'm afraid I must agree: I now despise Herolab! As such, I will be sure to log it away with all the other things I despise, such as the calculator, car, cell phone, and easy-bake oven.

CURSE TECHNOLOGY FOR TRYING TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER!!!

HOW DARE IT TRY TO CRIPPLE MY PRECIOUS LITTLE BRAIN!!!

Stop typing your responses! Mail them in on nice stationary!


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Mail?!? What kind of newfangled technological abomination is this? I don't trust no stinking postman! Back in my day we delivered our messages personally, thank you very much!


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Kudaku wrote:
Mail?!? What kind of newfangled technological abomination is this? I don't trust no stinking postman! Back in my day we delivered our messages personally, thank you very much!

Psh. You still write your messages? I scream them at people, the way God intended!


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Duskblade wrote:

So, after reading some of these comments, I'm afraid I must agree: I now despise Herolab! As such, I will be sure to log it away with all the other things I despise, such as the calculator, car, cell phone, and easy-bake oven.

CURSE TECHNOLOGY FOR TRYING TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER!!!

HOW DARE IT TRY TO CRIPPLE MY PRECIOUS LITTLE BRAIN!!!

Only a valid comparison if you find yourself saying things like "Man, the only reason I don't buy crossword puzzles is because my calculator won't help me with them" or "Shit, I can't figure out how many apples are in this bucket, I don't have my calculator to add them up".

Tools are tools. Tools are great. HeroLab is a good tool, that helps people do a thing quicker.

Still, over reliance on a tool to the point that you don't know how to function without said tool is not good. And obnoxious to the people whose game you're holding up because of it.


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I'm inclined to agree with Rynjin.
I personally can't stand such programs because I don't like having to pay for things twice, or even once of the book happens to be OGL or if one of my gaming buddies owns the book.
Then there is the whole issue of things not calculating properly and it just becomes more of a pain just to get it to work when I could already be done with hand writing a sheet and we could already be playing the game.


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Dekalinder wrote:
I mean, you guys really stat outs npc? I always just winded them

Sure, I improvise when I need to or rely on sources like the NPC Codex or Gamemasters Guide. But important, recurring, or adversarial NPCs I stat out when I can. I've found that doing so makes it easier to bring the NPCS to life during the game. It also has provided inspiration for characteristics of the NPC and even entire plots and subplots that I wouldn't have considered without fleshing out that NPC.


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Rynjin wrote:


Still, over reliance on a tool to the point that you don't know how to function without said tool is not good

That's a mighty big assumptive brush that you're painting a whole lot of people with...

And even where it might be applicable, it would be an issue with the user, not the application.


The amount of time really depends on the NPC. For me, low levels I can get done in less than 10 minutes. That's for easy, story based NPCs. High level enemies or bosses I will spend more time on, devising different strategies to make the fights more interesting for my players.
I find it a lot easier to make an NPC because things like HP and stats don't even get rolled.

Sovereign Court

Depend on the npc, I have learned to embrace Npc codex + Monster Codex.

Monster codex class templates especially, make making some npcs so much easier. When you know that the npc is not going to live more than 3 rounds...why bother giving full class features that you aren't going to use anyway, like the odds of trapfinding ever coming up for your npc are way too small.

Only ones that I take my time in making, are boss or important npcs, I might even use a special archetype.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

Eh. I could have put that better less condescendingly, if I'm being honest. It's not precisely the product I have a problem with, it's over-reliance on it.

I've played with a few people who have kinda soured me on the whole thing. Like "Why aren't you leveled like everyone else?" "HeroLab is down, I can't level up" levels of bad.

I've also seen that, in my PFS days, but I think in those cases, those might be players who would have otherwise left the game, or else had to essentially have another player build their character for them (both of which I've also seen). Anything a player can find that helps them make the game their own and feel more independent, like they can make and play their own character without somebody else calling the shots, is a good thing for that player and for the game, in my book. Whether it's an initiative tracker or Herolab, miniatures and lots of props like altitude trackers or buff and condition cards.

Pathfinder became a very complex game by now. Complex and close-coupled if that means something to you. It might be worth considering that there are person who do not have the time to read all the necessary books several times untill the deep understanding is reached. And many players today did not play previous editions of this game before for decades.

Those "weaker" players might still be supreme players, because of the fun that can be had with them or the stories they can tell.
I´m glad for herolab, it helps me save a lot of time. And Mark hit the spot there with his description. I saw exactly those things too.
I´m also glad for the the strategy guide. As soon as that book is translated to my native language, i´ll gift it to several people probably. And, while i personaly enjoy the complexity of the game, i secretly hope there´s more coming like the strategy guide, that makes entry and expanion for many people into the game a lot easier. Disentangling rules and synergies for them.


Anyone else tend to make NPCs and just clone them? For a homebrew I'll make about 10 mooks that clone themselves throughout the campaign. If I need a higher CR they just clone themselves a few more times.

Sovereign Court

@Malwing: Kinda, like I can take a npc already made, toss a template or two until I get the proper cr.

Designer

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Malwing wrote:
Anyone else tend to make NPCs and just clone them? For a homebrew I'll make about 10 mooks that clone themselves throughout the campaign. If I need a higher CR they just clone themselves a few more times.

In one campaign, it was actually a plot point that the PCs only discovered way late in the campaign, that one of the main villains was providing the expensive ninja mercenary service that good guys and enemies alike were using to provide ninjas, and they were all from one of a few "models," each of which provided statistically identical mook ninja. When they discovered who was behind "Rent a Ninja" as the PCs nicknamed it, they also discovered that the villain basically had a few high level ninja in vats, and he was making dozens of simulacra and selling their services at a profit, each "model" corresponding to one ninja in a vat. So there was a reason that they all had identical stats!


BPorter wrote:
Rynjin wrote:


Still, over reliance on a tool to the point that you don't know how to function without said tool is not good

That's a mighty big assumptive brush that you're painting a whole lot of people with...

And even where it might be applicable, it would be an issue with the user, not the application.

The only people I'm painting with that brush are people I have personally played with.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I don't like herolab because it breaks the very thing I play PnP games for. I don't have a computer limiting the rules and keeping boundries around what I do. So, I use a lot of third party stuff and what not because of this, i don;t want to try to program up a module for every feat I make, or every spell I change.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Malwing wrote:
Anyone else tend to make NPCs and just clone them? For a homebrew I'll make about 10 mooks that clone themselves throughout the campaign. If I need a higher CR they just clone themselves a few more times.
In one campaign, it was actually a plot point that the PCs only discovered way late in the campaign, that one of the main villains was providing the expensive ninja mercenary service that good guys and enemies alike were using to provide ninjas, and they were all from one of a few "models," each of which provided statistically identical mook ninja. When they discovered who was behind "Rent a Ninja" as the PCs nicknamed it, they also discovered that the villain basically had a few high level ninja in vats, and he was making dozens of simulacra and selling their services at a profit, each "model" corresponding to one ninja in a vat. So there was a reason that they all had identical stats!

Send the pathfinder society a note warning them of the cloners copyright infringement on their pregen business model, then let the murderhobos march against him in force.


Malwing wrote:
Anyone else tend to make NPCs and just clone them? For a homebrew I'll make about 10 mooks that clone themselves throughout the campaign. If I need a higher CR they just clone themselves a few more times.

Yep, I reuse & reskin NPCs all the time. It's one of the reasons I don't mind investing time in statting up an NPC. If the NPC meets an untimely end, that statblock is just like something from the NPC Codex. Reuse/reflavor as needed or tweak to suit down the road.


Bandw2 wrote:
I don't like herolab because it breaks the very thing I play PnP games for. I don't have a computer limiting the rules and keeping boundries around what I do. So, I use a lot of third party stuff and what not because of this, i don;t want to try to program up a module for every feat I make, or every spell I change.

For myself, I don't utilize Hero Lab's Tactical Console very often as, like you, I don't want the laptop to be something that slows down the game. I do, however, use it to reference NPCs and monsters that aren't somewhere else like in a module's text. I found this to be far less of a distraction than me searching through pages of paper looking for a particular character sheet or statblock.

I do find myself using a computer to assist with running my game for other reasons, however, such as utilizing RealmWorks as my campaign reference or Syrinscape for audio effects. RealmWorks is simply for my benefit in-game, but my players absolutely love the addition of Syrinscape to the game.

Technology can certainly be a distraction, but it doesn't have to be.

I must confess, however, that all cell phones are collected at the beginning of a session, placed in a bin, and then set off to the side. :)


I've never bothered with collecting phones since we usually use them for apps like master work tools which have a lot of good reference materials on hand when we don't have enough physical books.

I have recently been saving my NPCs on google docs and loading them that way.


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I don't use herolab as well, I actually prefer notepad to develop my npcs, I've become pretty good at making npcs quickly, and on the fly if necessary.
I know at least three people in my gaming groups who would probably need something like herolab to build and manage their pcs, but it's expensive and I prefer to teach them so they can make educated choices themselves.
It worked great so far.

At the same time, I give math reps for a living, and while I concede the use of a calculator for particularly long numbers, I rather teach tricks to do the calculations with one's mind.

I find this reading enlightning.
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/vl/notes/asimov.html


kestral287 wrote:
Symar wrote:
This variant multiclassing sounds exactly like 4e's multiclassing. I'm not complaining, not at all, but I do remember all the complaining that happened in 4e.

The big difference is that 4e offered a lot less of the other class.

You spent a feat for, realistically, the option to trade a power for a power. You got some small stuff, but certainly nothing that was the focus of the class. And then you could spend more feats to make better trades.

Here, you spend your feats and you're getting, it looks like, a hefty portion of the secondary class' goods. Certainly not all of them, but enough to make the trade immediately noticeable and worthwhile.

Really this is more like 4e's Hybrid system, which I always found far superior to the standard multiclassing in terms of actually doing what you want.

Oh right, 4e you had to spend a feat AND a power. I was only remembering the first feat that gave you a limited use version of one of the starting powers. The "best" part of that mulitclassing always seemed to me the ability to take the different Paragon Path. Never had a chance to try it, though.

Unfortunately, everyone I knew gave up on 4e by the time hybrid came around, so I don't have any experiences with it, but looking at it at the time it didn't really interest me.

So yeah, I guess this system is a bit better. But it still reminds me of it.


Rynjin wrote:
Duskblade wrote:

So, after reading some of these comments, I'm afraid I must agree: I now despise Herolab! As such, I will be sure to log it away with all the other things I despise, such as the calculator, car, cell phone, and easy-bake oven.

CURSE TECHNOLOGY FOR TRYING TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER!!!

HOW DARE IT TRY TO CRIPPLE MY PRECIOUS LITTLE BRAIN!!!

Only a valid comparison if you find yourself saying things like "Man, the only reason I don't buy crossword puzzles is because my calculator won't help me with them" or "S@$#, I can't figure out how many apples are in this bucket, I don't have my calculator to add them up".

Tools are tools. Tools are great. HeroLab is a good tool, that helps people do a thing quicker.

Still, over reliance on a tool to the point that you don't know how to function without said tool is not good. And obnoxious to the people whose game you're holding up because of it.

People and their approach to things can vary greatly. Some people want to know everything about something, they want to take it apart and put it back together again.

Some people are lazy, some insecure, some have poor memories (on what everything means) and some love the story but are turned off by the mechanics.

Rynjin, I think most players of role-playing games have encountered someone who really didn't make an effort and slowed down games. And so in part I agree with you.

It's just that everyone approaches things differently, and if they didn't it would make for a very boring world to live in. However frustrating it can be at times.


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I wonder how the variant multiclassing will progress spellcasting, if at all. Like, with a pure 20 Fighter, you can take those feats for variant multiclassing and still function as a beatstick with your other extra feats.

From a design standpoint, it looks like an expansion on the Eldritch Heritage feat line, which is really cool. The amount of awesome stuff that can come of this is overwhelming.

If this can let me make my non-evil mock Anti-paladin exist, then I will finally be able to play this game as I've wanted to since I got into it.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
BPorter wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
I don't like herolab because it breaks the very thing I play PnP games for. I don't have a computer limiting the rules and keeping boundries around what I do. So, I use a lot of third party stuff and what not because of this, i don;t want to try to program up a module for every feat I make, or every spell I change.

For myself, I don't utilize Hero Lab's Tactical Console very often as, like you, I don't want the laptop to be something that slows down the game. I do, however, use it to reference NPCs and monsters that aren't somewhere else like in a module's text. I found this to be far less of a distraction than me searching through pages of paper looking for a particular character sheet or statblock.

I use the SRD as my bestiary.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
That Other Guy wrote:

I wonder how the variant multiclassing will progress spellcasting, if at all. Like, with a pure 20 Fighter, you can take those feats for variant multiclassing and still function as a beatstick with your other extra feats.

From a design standpoint, it looks like an expansion on the Eldritch Heritage feat line, which is really cool. The amount of awesome stuff that can come of this is overwhelming.

If this can let me make my non-evil mock Anti-paladin exist, then I will finally be able to play this game as I've wanted to since I got into it.

honestly, having a fighter variant class anything seems like a really good thing. buff the fighter by once again allowing it to pick at the class features of others. I have a number of concepts that ultimately seem like a fighter with some extra stuff attached, and this could make it much easier to do.


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Since I only play via PBP and my computer is dead all I have is my iPad hero lab to make a character. Otherwise I'm sitting here for hours double checking a crappy word document character sheet I jury-rigged together. It saves me so much time best thing I've ever won for my gaming needs.

Edit

But since this is about the Pathfinder: Unchained book....IM EXCITED WHY CANT I THROW MY MONEY AT YOU AND GET IT NOW!!!!?!?!?!?!!!?


havoc xiii wrote:
But since this is about the Pathfinder: Unchained book....IM EXCITED WHY CANT I THROW MY MONEY AT YOU AND GET IT NOW!!!!?!?!?!?!!!?

My thoughts exactly. I wish all subscribers got their PDFs simultaneously as well, at least. I'm sure there are reasons they don't. Probably even good ones. Can't stop me from wishing though.


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havoc xiii wrote:


But since this is about the Pathfinder: Unchained book....IM EXCITED WHY CANT I THROW MY MONEY AT YOU AND GET IT NOW!!!!?!?!?!?!!!?

Right there with you mate. My order for it is in pending, and I'm awaiting the grace of the warehouse dudes and dudesses to ship me so I can download the pdf...


Rynjin wrote:
BPorter wrote:
Rynjin wrote:


Still, over reliance on a tool to the point that you don't know how to function without said tool is not good

That's a mighty big assumptive brush that you're painting a whole lot of people with...

And even where it might be applicable, it would be an issue with the user, not the application.

The only people I'm painting with that brush are people I have personally played with.

While I don't really want to contribute to the derail Rynjin, I just want to say that in our group, it's not the ones who are using HeroLab that slow the game down - it's the ones who aren't. I do use it at home, but not at the table - mainly because I don't have a laptop to bring to the game.

Pathfinder gets very complicated by mid level play. Not only do many classes have various situational bonuses that may or may not apply to a given roll, there are also a lot of binary abilities that the player can choose to use or not for a given roll. Add to that the various spells that they can cast, or have cast on them, and it can be quite challenging to figure out exactly what their bonus to hit or damage is for a given attack, or their save modifier, or their acrobatics skill.

I played my brown fur transmuter for the second time Saturday night. I chose to polymorph the fighter being played by a guy running HeroLab on his laptop rather than on the bloodrager being played by a guy using pencil & paper who has trouble getting his attack & damage right from just his own buffs spells and rage ability. I made that decision as least as much because it was going to slow play less to turn the fighter into a girtablilu than because it would have cancelled the bloodrager's enlarge spell.

Dark Archive

Fighter multi class to get the conjuration teleportation school of magic and then all the dimensional feats. Or a brawler with that nice.


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brad2411 wrote:
Fighter multi class to get the conjuration teleportation school of magic and then all the dimensional feats. Or a brawler with that nice.

That is actually kind of frightening. I think we can finally have anime style teleport-step fights.

Shadow Lodge

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I approve.


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Interesting fact: The dimensional feat line is so feat intensive that only a fighter would be able to afford to get that, be skiled with a weapon, AND varient multiclass before something like level 15.

Sovereign Court

Matrix Dragon wrote:
Interesting fact: The dimensional feat line is so feat intensive that only a fighter would be able to afford to get that, be skiled with a weapon, AND varient multiclass before something like level 15.

I can see Brawler with the conjuration school enjoying it with martial flexibility too.


brad2411 wrote:
Fighter multi class to get the conjuration teleportation school of magic and then all the dimensional feats. Or a brawler with that nice.

I'm pretty sure you can't qualify for the Dimensional feats with Shift.


Arachnofiend wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Fighter multi class to get the conjuration teleportation school of magic and then all the dimensional feats. Or a brawler with that nice.
I'm pretty sure you can't qualify for the Dimensional feats with Shift.

You can't apparently, but only because its supernatural, not spell like. (even though it mentions the spell...)

Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door.

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?

Only if the pre-requisite calls out the name of a spell explicitly. For instance, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat. However, the barghest's dimension door would not meet requirements such as "Ability to cast 4th level spells" or "Ability to cast arcane spells".


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Arachnofiend wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Fighter multi class to get the conjuration teleportation school of magic and then all the dimensional feats. Or a brawler with that nice.
I'm pretty sure you can't qualify for the Dimensional feats with Shift.

Technically, they're not combat feats... Soooo... Yeah. Apparently no Stamina things for these feats then? I guess you'd only have your 1st, 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th level feats to get the dimension line. That kinda kills that idea.

Edit: Oh. I missed what you meant. But also, you can't get the feats with Brawler/Fighter bonus feats, or with Martial Flexibility.

Another Edit That Honestly Could Have Been Another Post, But Whatever: Maybe a Unchained Monk would be best? If it's anything like old Monk, it qualifies for the line by itself, and now it has Full BAB, along with that kick, and probably tons of other things that help it, all without multiclassing.


I noticed that this blog says "next time" instead of "next week" :) Very prudent of you Mark.


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Dimensional Dervish seems to be a sweet trap; it's fiendishly hard to qualify for before you're so high-level the campaign's about to end, there are very few loopholes to let you get around that, they aren't combat feats so fighters can't spec into them with bonus feats, and, well, Flying Kick working as advertised sorta means Monks really don't need to wait until they're level 17 or so to do rapid moving combat.

The Dimensional line seems like a neat idea that is just gated off too damn high to be any use to most adventurers. Three-feat chains are NOT something you want to be starting at level 13ish.


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That being said, using Shift to swift action teleport is pretty damn sweet on its own. You're getting 25 feet of movement as a swift action at tenth level, which in many cases is going to be as good as pounce.

Also worth mentioning that DDoor has no restrictions on having to teleport to a safe location. There's no reason why you can't Shift into the air, grab that flying wizard and seismic toss a motherf$%!er.


What I'm hoping is that Abundant Step might be available far earlier, which I think might make it worthwhile. Of course, Flying Kick, and apparently several other things in the book, might make the Dimension feats even more obsolete. It'll just be a wait and see sort of thing, I guess.


Arachnofiend wrote:

That being said, using Shift to swift action teleport is pretty damn sweet on its own. You're getting 25 feet of movement as a swift action at tenth level, which in many cases is going to be as good as pounce.

Also worth mentioning that DDoor has no restrictions on having to teleport to a safe location. There's no reason why you can't Shift into the air, grab that flying wizard and seismic toss a m+$!%!@$+#!~.

That's true, if shift is a swift action then you don't really even need dimensional dervish.

...I think I need to make a teleporting ninja/unchained rogue now.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

For the record, I haven't seen this book yet, so anything and everything I've said about it is pure speculation. (As a publisher, I need to get in the habit of making this disclaimer any time I make a comment about another company's future products. May as well start now.)


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The Dimensional Dervish chain can be accomplished at a reasonable level only by retraining most of your feats as soon as you qualify for the first feat.

Designer

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Matrix Dragon wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:

That being said, using Shift to swift action teleport is pretty damn sweet on its own. You're getting 25 feet of movement as a swift action at tenth level, which in many cases is going to be as good as pounce.

Also worth mentioning that DDoor has no restrictions on having to teleport to a safe location. There's no reason why you can't Shift into the air, grab that flying wizard and seismic toss a m+$!%!@$+#!~.

That's true, if shift is a swift action then you don't really even need dimensional dervish.

...I think I need to make a teleporting ninja/unchained rogue now.

Yup, save yourself a feat and just grab Dimensional Agility to allow actions after using shift, and you should be set!

Silver Crusade Contributor

Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:

That being said, using Shift to swift action teleport is pretty damn sweet on its own. You're getting 25 feet of movement as a swift action at tenth level, which in many cases is going to be as good as pounce.

Also worth mentioning that DDoor has no restrictions on having to teleport to a safe location. There's no reason why you can't Shift into the air, grab that flying wizard and seismic toss a m+$!%!@$+#!~.

That's true, if shift is a swift action then you don't really even need dimensional dervish.

...I think I need to make a teleporting ninja/unchained rogue now.

Yup, save yourself a feat and just grab Dimensional Agility to allow actions after using shift, and you should be set!

I did not realize that Shift had that restriction. Thank you! :)

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