Community Card Creator and Errata Decks

Steve, just so I understand the microlicense part, if I purchase one of the microlicenses for $0.40, I can then use it on as many cards as I want, correct? So each use doesn't cost me 40 cents, just getting the image to use for the cards in general cost me 40 cents. Do I understand correctly?

I think that some people might think they will pay art + card cost every time, but if you re-use the art (or make multiple prints of one card), only paying the 40 cents once is a much better deal.

Epic Meepo wrote:

If I purchase a community-created card, does the community member who designed that card earn a percentage of that sale?

No, at least not at this time.

One of our future feature sets will be to allow for that to happen, but this wasn't part of our initial release scope coding.

Also we (Paizo and DriveThru) want to keep the pricing of these cards as low as possible to keep them accessible to the community, so even when we develop that "royalty" capability/feature, it's unknown if we'd implement it here or not.

Steve
DriveThru

In that case, I have to object to this Card Creator on ethical grounds.

DriveThru earns money on each sale, which is perfectly fair and ethical, since Drive Thru is providing a service by printing and distributing these cards. There's nothing wrong with that part of the process.

The providers of the stock art earn money each time someone licenses their artwork, which is perfectly fair and ethical, since artists have the right to profit from their own intellectual property. There's nothing wrong with that part of the process.

But then we get to the part where Paizo is asking amateur designers to transfer ownership of their intellectual property to Paizo without compensation. And we're not talking about messageboard posts here. We're talking about designers putting time and effort into the creation of published, proprietary, Paizo-owned products without getting paid for their work.

That would be tolerable if the designers retained full ownership (or even a copyleft) of the intellectual property they created while doing this volunteer work for Paizo, Inc., but the designers don't even get that. They are donating their time (and potentially paying for licenses) to create intellectual property owned by a for-profit corporation that is not their employer.

That is exploitative, and helps perpetuate a culture where creative workers are conditioned to expect no compensation for work they perform on behalf of others. I realize this was probably not anyone's intention when setting up this project, but it is still the end result. As someone who believes artists should receive fair compensation for any work they perform that generates revenue for any party, I cannot support this Card Creator.

Hey guys, let's take the legal/CUP concerns to another thread, rather than derailing the blog response thread into this territory. Copyrights and legal ramifications are very complicated, and often can result in heated and very far reaching discussions which really don't fit in this particular one.

This is amazing! I already print out some cards myself but I'm constantly frustrated at my inability to cut perfectly / use paper or cardstock. Looking forward to spending way too much money on custom cards :)

I'm totally with Eric. "Allowing" the community to make unpaid content for Paizo to sell is unconscionable. This is what I was getting at (after reading Eric's initial query post, and beig very interested in this kind of thing) in my post upthread.

if I purchase one of the microlicenses for $0.40, I can then use it on as many cards as I want, correct? So each use doesn't cost me 40 cents, just getting the image to use for the cards in general cost me 40 cents. Do I understand correctly?

That's correct. Only buy the art piece license once.

Hey guys, let's take the legal/CUP concerns to another thread, rather than derailing the blog response thread into this territory. Copyrights and legal ramifications are very complicated, and often can result in heated and very far reaching discussions which really don't fit in this particular one.

Good point Chris.

I made a thread on PACG Card Creator Ethics for folks to discuss...

Is there any way to set an "owner" for a card? (like the character-specific boons in the iconic miniatures sets)

I would be quite happy to see a similar service made available for Face Cards and Item Cards.

Is there any way to set an "owner" for a card? (like the character-specific boons in the iconic miniatures sets)

That is an excellent recommendation. For now, I would put it in the additional traits field.

Awesome addition! I've already grabbed some of the microlicense art and have gotten started building out some cards to add a personal touch to my games. Thanks for this!

Does anyone have any recommendations for artwork? The microlicense stuff is great but I'm wondering if there is any artwork already out there courtesy of Paizo that I might not know about/approaches I might not have thought of. Thanks!

2. There's over 1,500 pieces of art in the Card Art Collection that you can use for the card creator for a microlicense payment to the artist of 40 cents.
Easiest to navigate the collection using the subcategories for each card type in the left column.

We're glad folks are enjoying it and hope to see more finished cards.

Hi Steve,

Is there a process for submitting art for use in this manner? I am not an artist but I am sure there are quite a few artists who would be interested, depending on how those licensing terms read. I know of a few I would encourage personally.

Awesome addition! I've already grabbed some of the microlicense art and have gotten started building out some cards to add a personal touch to my games. Thanks for this!

Does anyone have any recommendations for artwork? The microlicense stuff is great but I'm wondering if there is any artwork already out there courtesy of Paizo that I might not know about/approaches I might not have thought of. Thanks!

I think the general consensus right now is that images from the Paizo blog are ok to use, especially given that you give the rights to the created card over to Paizo.

No one has actually said they are ok to use in the card creator explicitly, but I do think it seems rather safe that they are.

Tychofalc wrote:

Awesome addition! I've already grabbed some of the microlicense art and have gotten started building out some cards to add a personal touch to my games. Thanks for this!

Does anyone have any recommendations for artwork? The microlicense stuff is great but I'm wondering if there is any artwork already out there courtesy of Paizo that I might not know about/approaches I might not have thought of. Thanks!

I think the general consensus right now is that images from the Paizo blog are ok to use, especially given that you give the rights to the created card over to Paizo.

No one has actually said they are ok to use in the card creator explicitly, but I do think it seems rather safe that they are.

I'd actually hold off on using any of Paizo's art...

...You can also upload your own art or public domain art...

Their CUP art is neither yours or public domain...

I'd actually hold off on using any of Paizo's art...

Blog wrote:

...You can also upload your own art or public domain art...

Their CUP art is neither yours or public domain...

Hmm...Yes well in light of that I would say you should hold off. My suspicion is that it will probably end up being fine to use it, but as Sniggevert points out, it isn't listed as one of the sources to get art from in the instructions. So I'd follow Sniggevert for now and just wait for official confirmation that other things from the Community Use Policy are also allowed to be used in the Community Card Creator.

While I love.. no, *love* this idea and I'm very happy that Paizo and DriveThru could find a way to make this happen, I'm not surprised at the stats Steve mentioned. Art is going to be a big sticking point here.

Case in point, I have a card I'd love to submit right now - actually the custom character I used throughout Rise of the Runelords. The artist (Michele Chang who has previously worked with Paizo) very kindly gave me permission to use the art, and for that card to be placed in the public domain for non-profit purposes. However the current terms make it very difficult to re-publish that card via this system and make it available to everyone else.

...and for that card to be placed in the public domain for non-profit purposes...

This is a great point. We need to be really careful when searching for art that looks like public domain. Some of it is, and some of it is free to use, but some of it is conditional or non-transferable. Using the card creator is certainly a for profit purpose (even if it is not our profit) and a commercial use.

I'm just very curious as to how long it will be until we are able to make custom characters, role cards and token cards. That's what I want to do more than anything.

I kind of want to make a mini campaign for the goblins (Ranzak, Ekkie, future free rpg day goblins). With humans, horse, dogs, etc as monsters and bugbears, goblin dogs, etc as allies.

Is it legal to get a duplicate of the blessing of zogmugot?
Same name of card, same picture, same text, but top left card creator?

Just to know if you have to sell your official promo cards NOW...

It seems to be legal or nobody cares about it...

Or it is the weekend and no one from Paizo is in the office to respond.

I'd personally say it isn't legal. The Zogmurt symbol isn't in the community use package (to my knowledge any way). And I'd imagine that, even if it was, copying the name, traits, image, checks, and powers of a card would violate the copyright that Paizo has on what is in the game.

That is just my opinion though.

Or it is the weekend and no one from Paizo is in the office to respond.

I really wish people would respect this more. I'm occasionally on the forums on the weekend, but Paizo isn't. So, your patience is appreciated.

Myfly is not known as the most patient forum-goer, but he's still pretty awesome. :-P

Plus, it is hard for us forum users to remember that this is a job for Paizo and Lone Shark people. We get very into it and spend our free time playing it and discussing it and creating things for it.

Vic, Mike, and the team obviously love what they do, as evidenced by the fact they also spend their free time playing and even discussing it (I think we could find posts from all of them on a weekend or after business hours).

But it is still a job for them, and one I'm sure has it's fair share of frustrations. So taking some free time away from it outside of work hours is probably healthy.

But their passion for it shows through by their interactions here. And sometimes it is easy to forget that they do have other things to do too, because they spoil us with how regular and fantastic their interaction with the community is.

I think duplicating the exact text of a card (even if you use different art) would be in violation of Paizo's copyrights on a card - so, no duplicating existing official cards which would include promo cards.

Even if it was somehow technically ok, I think duplicating promos is bad form because it defeats the point of having them being promos to begin with.

It's okay to use anything in the Community Use Package (see http://paizo.com/paizo/about/communityuse) in the Card Creator, and to make your cards using that content public.

It is not okay to use card text or Paizo-owned images that are not part of the Community Use Package in the Card Creator.

I'll see if I can get Steve to create a FAQ page for the Card Creator that explains these things.

As I understood it, you could use whatever art and text you want, assuming you don't want your card to become public for other people to look at and buy?

Is this not correct?

It is not okay to use card text [...]

Are there clear definitions of what amount of card text you can use? When it is held totally vague you are not even allowed to use any term or phrases like "For your combat check..."

I was wondering: Since I assume that you have no interest in making a profit from promos, might this be a way to allow players to get old ones? I just came up with this to shock a certain someone who tried to sell me his 5 Blessing of Zogmugot for around 65$.

I was wondering: Since I assume that you have no interest in making a profit from promos, might this be a way to allow players to get old ones? I just came up with this to shock a certain someone who tried to sell me his 5 Blessing of Zogmugot for around 65$.

I'll sell you 5 blessings of Zogmugot for only $60. :-)

Folks

Day 1 of the Card Creator being live has been great.
We had over 1,000 cards start creation!

However, only 90 of those new cards made it past the Art stage and only about 10 of those cards got finalized, with just a few of those 10 being made public.

That 90% dropoff at the art stage indicates there's a lot of folks stymied at the art resources end of this, so if you're among those struggling for art to use, then I'd suggest:

1. We've licensed 4 art pieces from artist Nicholas Avallone that you can use in the card creator for free:
Firelord

Priestess

Sorceress

Windlord

and dream up a new Villain/Henchman/Monster/Ally card with that art.

2. There's over 1,500 pieces of art in the Card Art Collection that you can use for the card creator for a microlicense payment to the artist of 40 cents.
Easiest to navigate the collection using the subcategories for each card type in the left column.

We're glad folks are enjoying it and hope to see more finished cards.

I don't quite understand why we cannot use Paizo art if we agree to make our card private. No one is ever going to see this card except who buys it and Paizo already has the rights to their own art anyway.

As I understood it, you could use whatever art and text you want, assuming you don't want your card to become public for other people to look at and buy?

Is this not correct?

Ive been wondering this too. DriveThru makes a point of letting me know that my card wont be saved if I keep it private so they wouldn't be saving any copyrighted art on their site. However they are making a profit from me so theyd be making a profit on it...

I'm not going to challenge anything you do exclusively for your own personal use. I'm not even going to see it.

Vic Wertz wrote:

It is not okay to use card text [...]

Are there clear definitions of what amount of card text you can use? When it is held totally vague you are not even allowed to use any term or phrases like "For your combat check..."

If you say it isn't okay to copy an existing power, people could not make their own blessings since blessings have the same powers over and over again.
If the restriction is referring to cards name, people could come up with a variant (like their own name for a deity and own artwork but with the same powers.)

Don't copy the full text of a card for the public library.

Thanks for all the info and clarification and permissions Vic.

I do see at the end of the card creation process that you (the creator) agree to transfer ownership over to Paizo... However, this opens up the question of rights with regards to images to which you have the right to use but not transfer to others.

DriveThru has updated the language on that page to clarify that this applies only to the text.

Flat the Impaler wrote:

I do see at the end of the card creation process that you (the creator) agree to transfer ownership over to Paizo... However, this opens up the question of rights with regards to images to which you have the right to use but not transfer to others.

DriveThru has updated the language on that page to clarify that this applies only to the text.

Fantastic. That's a load off my mind.

I recall Vic promising many months ago that images of all these errata cards would be available as free PDFs for those of us who want to print them for ourselves. Where can I find those?

I'm guessing no one saw my post from earlier so I will repost. When can we expect the character, role card and token card stuff to be available. I'm super excited to make custom characters for this game. And actually use cards.

During the testing phase, the guys at drivethru said that they didn't have a timeline for the other card types as of yet, so I'd say you'll probably hear an answer when they figure that out. :)

Darn I am actually more excited for that than anything else when it comes to the drivethru card maker.

Darn I am actually more excited for that than anything else when it comes to the drivethru card maker.

Hawkmoon269 has worked out a way to create character cards using the community use package. If you PM him I'm sure he'd be happy to explain it to you. It sounds rather involved, though.

I think I'll just wait for it to be released. I mean I have all the characters available to date anyway. So I have a very large amount of options to choose from. I'm just very excited to be able to make my own characters into cards and not just make then and have them on a piece of paper.

Do you officially release your characters? So other people may get a copy?

I recall Vic promising many months ago that images of all these errata cards would be available as free PDFs for those of us who want to print them for ourselves. Where can I find those?

They're coming in the next week.

Myfly-if you mean my characters I've made. No not yet I have art and what not I want to use with them but I want to put them up as cards and not just a list of text.

FYI: DriveThru has added a bunch of free art to the card creator. Some of the types have more than others, but it is nice to see more free art options.

I'm trying to create my own card but I can't reach the finalize step. The "Next" button doesn't work ...

I'm trying to create my own card but I can't reach the finalize step. The "Next" button doesn't work ...

In this case you just generated a overpowered card... DriveTruCards then wont let it finalize you. Just reduce card power and you will see the "Next" button will work...

Happy card designing!

I'm trying to create my own card but I can't reach the finalize step. The "Next" button doesn't work ...

What browser are you using and do you have any plugins running in it?

You can also contact DriveThru support here.

EDIT: I just made one with Chrome and it did work for me. The last button you click is actually "Make My Card". The screen where you make the card's powers, checks, etc. does have a "Next" button. Is that the one you are getting stuck on? When I made mine I clicked that and went to the next screen, then realized I had forgotten a deck number. I went back and added one and then the next button didn't seem to work. But after a few clicks it did work again. And I was able to create my card.

I'm not sure if any of that actually helps you though.