Advanced Class Guide Preview: Arcanist

Tuesday, July 1, 2014

The arcanist was one of the more difficult classes to design in the Advanced Class Guide. When the idea first came together, it was based almost entirely upon mechanics. As an arcane caster that can prepare spells like a wizard, but cast them like a sorcerer, the idea was an interesting one, but when we presented it in the first round of the playtest the deficiency became clear. What is an arcanist?

As the playtest rolled on, this problem became more and more clear. The class had an interesting basic mechanic, but it needed a story hook and mechanics to support that idea. It was clear that we needed to go back to the drawing board. Looking at the wizard as the arcane caster that learns through study and the sorcerer who masters magic by drawing upon the power in his blood, the arcanist needed to fall somewhere between the two.


Illustration by Subroto Bhaumik

Ultimately, we decided on making the arcanist about tinkering with the underlying forces of arcane magic, using a combination of study and innate talent to break magic down and shape it to fit her needs. Combining that concept with an arcane reservoir, a pool of power that the arcanist can use to fuel exploits that break the rules of magic, the class really started to come together. In the second draft of the playtest, we knew we were on the right track. Most playtesters were concerned about power balance, but the overall consensus was that the changes we made gave the class a place in the game all its own.

While the final version of the class is very close to the second playtest version, the big changes came to the arcane exploits (like all of the exploits that dealt energy damage got a boost). These abilities are what make the arcanist unique and in the final version we added a large number of them to the class, giving you a wider variety of character types you can build with the class. Take a look!

Energy Shield (Su): The arcanist can protect herself from energy damage as a standard action by expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir. She must pick one energy type and gains resistance 10 against that energy type for 1 minute per arcanist level. This protection increases by 5 for every 5 levels the arcanist possesses (up to a maximum of 30 at 20th level).

Quick Study (Ex): The arcanist can prepare a spell in place of an existing spell by expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir. Using this ability is a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The arcanist must be able to reference her spellbook when using this ability. The spell prepared must be of the same level as the spell being replaced.

In addition, we added a number of greater exploits to the class as well, adding powerful tool to the high level arcanist.

Suffering Knowledge (Su): The arcanist can learn to cast a spell by suffering from its effects. When the arcanist fails a saving throw against a spell cast by an enemy, as an immediate action she can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to temporarily acquire the spell. She can cast the spell using her spell slots as if it was a spell she had prepared that day. The spell must be on the sorcerer/wizard spell list and must be of a level that she can cast. The ability to cast this spell remains for a number of rounds equal to the arcanist’s Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

Of course, the Advanced Class Guide also features a number of fun new archetypes to use with the arcanist. There is the blade adept, who gains a sentient sword and select a limited number of magus arcana instead of arcane exploits. You can also play a brown-fur transmuter, whose reservoir can be used to bolster the power of her transmutation spells. The eldritch font gains more spell slots, but can prepare fewer spells per day. An elemental master focuses her power on just one element, but to much greater effect. While there are a number of other archetypes for the arcanist, there is one more that needs to be called out. The white mage can expend points from her arcane reservoir to allow her to cast cure spells with her spell slots, but at higher levels she can even cast breath of life.

Well that about wraps up the preview for this week. Check back in next week for songs of bravery and rage!

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Tags: Arcanist Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subroto Bhaumik
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Orthos wrote:

Maybe it's just my group, but I've found in my experience that when someone pulls that trick with the prepared casters, it irritates the rest of the party something fierce. "Sorry, we need to drop everything and stop for fifteen minutes so I can get these one or two spells in here."

For not having that headache it'll already be an upgrade. Being able to do it in combat - even at risk to the spellbook - is just gravy.

There is Fast Study to drop down spell preparation to one minute, a much more reasonable time.

Wizards also get higher level spells one level earlier, which is a pretty big deal.


Lyra Amary wrote:
Orthos wrote:

Maybe it's just my group, but I've found in my experience that when someone pulls that trick with the prepared casters, it irritates the rest of the party something fierce. "Sorry, we need to drop everything and stop for fifteen minutes so I can get these one or two spells in here."

For not having that headache it'll already be an upgrade. Being able to do it in combat - even at risk to the spellbook - is just gravy.

There is Fast Study to drop down spell preparation to one minute, a much more reasonable time.

Ah. Well, nobody in my group's taken that feat. Wasn't even aware it existed. Though not surprising, I don't like prepared casters so I'm not super familiar with feats and things geared toward them.

If the Witch in our Runelords party keeps pulling the trick, we might need to encourage him to.

Quote:
Wizards also get higher level spells one level earlier, which is a pretty big deal.

I suppose that's fair, though my group has long since houseruled spont casters to advance at the same rate as prepared. But that's neither here nor there as far as the preview is concerned =)


My question is whether or not Arcane Reservoir got changed to incorporate CHA as a stat that matters vs having it be level based allowing a player to dump CHA and still be awesome, even though CHA is supposed to be a primary stat.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Brown-fur transmuter - will that mean I can be Circe and blast people into farm animals? :D

Contributor

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Hm, I'm wondering if the blade adept is going to function using the black blade rules. It would be pretty awesome to see some overlap, though as a poor BAB class, I'm just as curious as to how the blade adept is going to use that weapon in combat.

White mage definetitely deserved to be called out: people have been asking for a "white wizard" for as long as I can remember, and adding a new class that can do it without breaking the 3.5 Traditions for wizards is an awesome, awesome way to do this. I'm definitely more interested in the arcanist then I was before!

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For the Blade Adept I am expecting something along the lines of using a spell level to get a bonus to attack and damage.


>White Mage

Did someone say new potentially viable healer?


Alexander Augunas wrote:

Hm, I'm wondering if the blade adept is going to function using the black blade rules. It would be pretty awesome to see some overlap, though as a poor BAB class, I'm just as curious as to how the blade adept is going to use that weapon in combat.

White mage definetitely deserved to be called out: people have been asking for a "white wizard" for as long as I can remember, and adding a new class that can do it without breaking the 3.5 Traditions for wizards is an awesome, awesome way to do this. I'm definitely more interested in the arcanist then I was before!

The possibility of a 1/2 BAB class is one of the first things to get me interested in this book. It's something I don't remember seeing before.


I'm playing an Arcanist with Quick Study right now, and to be honest I have trouble thinking of playing a Manafont. I'm level 3, and I only have 3 spells prepared and 2 arcane points. Mostly I'm swapping out Mage Armor after I use it at the start of the dungeon, but that only leaves me 1 point for Quick Study or Potent Magic again. I can't imagine having fewer prepared spells.

I guess it'll work at higher levels, and you use Consume Spells to eat those extra first level spells to swap out higher level slots, but it's going to be even more painful at low level.


Orthos wrote:


Ah. Well, nobody in my group's taken that feat. Wasn't even aware it existed. Though not surprising, I don't like prepared casters so I'm not super familiar with feats and things geared toward them.

If the Witch in our Runelords party keeps pulling the trick, we might need to encourage him to.

It's not actually a feat. It's one of the Arcane Discoveries that a Wizard gets to choose. I'm afraid the Witch may be out of luck in terms of reducing prep time.

Orthos wrote:
I suppose that's fair, though my group has long since houseruled spont casters to advance at the same rate as prepared. But that's neither here nor there as far as the preview is concerned =)

I agree with the idea that spontaneous and prepared spellcasters should advance at the same rate in terms of learning new spells.

I was actually saying this because the delayed spell progression for Arcanists lowers its perceived power in comparison to the Wizard. Though many people seem to think Arcanists are broken powerful, I'm not certain that is the case because of this delayed progression. Certainly, it is powerful due to its access to Wizard spell list, and that automatically makes it one of the most powerful classes. But if anything is making the Arcanist overpowered, it's not how it casts spells or Quick Study, it's some of its other abilities.

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Xris Robin wrote:

I'm playing an Arcanist with Quick Study right now, and to be honest I have trouble thinking of playing a Manafont. I'm level 3, and I only have 3 spells prepared and 2 arcane points. Mostly I'm swapping out Mage Armor after I use it at the start of the dungeon, but that only leaves me 1 point for Quick Study or Potent Magic again. I can't imagine having fewer prepared spells.

I guess it'll work at higher levels, and you use Consume Spells to eat those extra first level spells to swap out higher level slots, but it's going to be even more painful at low level.

That is the thing about Arcane casters they start the game as the worst classes then become the strongest in the game.


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Okay. So if I am using an Arcanist with Quick Study, I can now quote a movie in a totally serious fashion. "Hide behind the mound of dead bards." I'm fine with that.

And Suffering Knowledge is something we all asked about at some point in that playtest. Now we really are pulling Mega Man out as a spellcaster.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It is something to note, that wizards can already access quick study in the form of the wizard discovery. And the ability to do so in the midst of combat is already available in the magaambyan arcanist available in Paths of Prestige.


zergtitan wrote:
It is something to note, that wizards can already access quick study in the form of the wizard discovery.

Never heard of it, but it sounds cool. Can you link that?

zergtitan wrote:


And the ability to do so in the midst of combat is already available in the magaambyan arcanist available in Paths of Prestige.

That isn't a wizards feature, but a PrC feature.

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Fast Study in the prd.


brad2411 wrote:
Fast Study in the prd.

I don't see how that is the equivalent.


Cthulhudrew wrote:

Doom! Doom and gloom! DOOOOOM!!!!

Oy.

At any rate, the Arcanist holds a special place for me for a couple of reasons: It went from being the class that held the least amount of interest for me from pre-and initial beta to the class that most intrigued me with the second beta.

Plus, it basically amounted to a character class that I've been wanting to have (and have been tinkering with and trying to create on my own) for years- something on the order of near to a decade now, actually.

I can't wait to see the final version of this class. And I'm fairly confident that if they boosted some of the abilities that were noted in the playtest as being underwhelming, they more than likely nerfed those that were viewed as overpowered (and which they even acknowledge acknowledging in this post).

And Quick Study doesn't seem all that overpowered to me- full round action provoking AoO, must be same level spell, costs 1 arcane reservoir point.

Alas, ymmv for many. Que sera, sera.

Also, the picture for the Arcane Occultist looks cool. A divine arcanist, perhaps? Maybe some kind of Arcanist/Oracle?

I can understand people’s fears about the class being too powerful, but I agree with you on this class being one with no interest for me from pre-and initial beta to one of the classes that most intrigued me with the second beta.

I’d say that this class, along with the Shaman and Investigator didn’t really interest me at first, but they all quickly became the very interesting classes after the second play test version.

Without even knowing it, this class is the class I always wanted to play. So cool!

I’m looking forward to the Slayer and Shaman preview and dreading the Skald preview.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Adam B. 135 wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Fast Study in the prd.
I don't see how that is the equivalent.

I wrote that post without looking at the details more, and your correct it dosen't replicate it the same.

the Intoned recollection from the prestige class does.


brad2411 wrote:
Fast Study in the prd.

Thanks.

@zergtitan: I agree with Adam B. 135 that it isn't really equivalent to the Quick Study ability

edit:

Ninja'd by zergtitan, LOL.

Anyway, I like the class and I trust it has been nerfed. Making it MAD fixes some of the issues.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Oo, blue mage.


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I am now even more baffled by the decision to nerf the warpriest.


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I, for one, welcome our new Arcanist overlords.


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I sometimes feel like participants on these forums are auditioning for the lead in "The Last Angry Man."


Cthulhudrew wrote:
I sometimes feel like participants on these forums are auditioning for the lead in "The Last Angry Man."

Anger is the wrong word for what I'm feeling. It's more like confusion mixed with disillusionment. With some acquired pessimism thrown in for good measure.

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

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I think some folks here might be reading a bit much into a relatively short preview. The class is good, but its not quite as powerful as some are making it out to be.

Lets just take the rhetoric down a notch.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer


he uses dex, con, int and charisma.
Both Charisma and Int needs to be high, at least it did it did in last play test version.

but hey, people seriously claim the paladin is MAD so what do I know ;-)


Zark wrote:
Serghar Cromwell wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
Serghar Cromwell wrote:
I am now even more baffled by the decision to nerf the warpriest.
If it has a 9/9 spell progression then Paizo loves it like a firstborn son in China.
That's very true, but I never imagined they'd go so far as to make Schrödinger's Wizard a reality and call it balanced.

Oh you have seen the final version of the class. How cool. Can you give us more updates?

Is it still MAD or is it using charisma to cast spells?

Quick Study makes me very nervous. Some charisma dependency doesn't do anything to abate my concerns.


Serghar Cromwell wrote:
Zark wrote:
Serghar Cromwell wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
Serghar Cromwell wrote:
I am now even more baffled by the decision to nerf the warpriest.
If it has a 9/9 spell progression then Paizo loves it like a firstborn son in China.
That's very true, but I never imagined they'd go so far as to make Schrödinger's Wizard a reality and call it balanced.

Oh you have seen the final version of the class. How cool. Can you give us more updates?

Is it still MAD or is it using charisma to cast spells?

Quick Study makes me very nervous. Some charisma dependency doesn't do anything to abate my concerns.

Edit:

I agree it does sound too good, but let’s wait and see how it turned out in the final version.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I can't see why. Arcane reservoir must be limited in size, hopefully still draws on a second stat and is useful for other things. If an arcanist wants to use all of his reservoir to open up his spell selection then fine, it removes the other abilities - the wide variety they gave the class according to this preview. I see no balance issue here, I think people may be overreacting to a preview of a tiny part of the class. There are a lot of unknown still that may address the "why didn't they listen to us?" issue. Did they change the base caster progression? how many points in the reservoir?

I have little to no tendancy to play pure casters in the game anyway, but the arcanist has me thinking I may try it out. I like it. In fact I like the look of the advanced class guide overall so far. Do I need 10 more base classes? I don't really know, but I don't have to but the book. I will, since I like the production quality of paizo's books, and it means I'll keep my options open.


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Zark wrote:
Serghar Cromwell wrote:
Zark wrote:
Serghar Cromwell wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
Serghar Cromwell wrote:
I am now even more baffled by the decision to nerf the warpriest.
If it has a 9/9 spell progression then Paizo loves it like a firstborn son in China.
That's very true, but I never imagined they'd go so far as to make Schrödinger's Wizard a reality and call it balanced.

Oh you have seen the final version of the class. How cool. Can you give us more updates?

Is it still MAD or is it using charisma to cast spells?

Quick Study makes me very nervous. Some charisma dependency doesn't do anything to abate my concerns.

Edit:

I agree it does sound too good, but let’s wait and see how it turned out in the final version.

Fine. But if I don't like it, I'll hold you personally responsible.

To avoid misinterpretation, I will clarify that that was a joke.


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I'm thinking the class's niche will be "I am schrodinger's wizard for exactly one battle per day or just a full caster for two."


What's the point of the Blade Adept? It's literally the Blade Bound. There will probably be differences, sure, but that's the Blade Bound's whole gimmick, a sentient sword. The Blade Adept has the exact same gimmick.


A different approach and mechanic for the same theme? It's like saying why the brawler and fighter archetype brawler and all these monk archetypes, all they do is punch things. I bet bladebound and blade adept are different enough that they will play completely separately even though they are both "magic guy with magic sword"


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Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I think some folks here might be reading a bit much into a relatively short preview. The class is good, but its not quite as powerful as some are making it out to be.

Lets just take the rhetoric down a notch.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Can you share just a little bit more. I want to know how this class had its balance increased. What big change occurred to make this somehow not overpowered? As it stands, we are assuming that this is a class that can prepare new spells in the slots of old ones, which being a pseudo-prepared-spontaneous caster that learns 2 new spells every level and may add more to its spellbook. It is literally a Wizard that can change what it prepared that day so it no longer has to have just the right spell at just the right time.

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Adam B. 135 wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Fast Study in the prd.
I don't see how that is the equivalent.

Fast study does not use any class "points", where as quick study does so it is possible that fast study can get more useful but you have to prep for it to be more useful. But quick study is spontaneous which can make it better.

I have played the 2nd playtest Arcanist in Wotr and yes they can be more powerful then wizards but they are still a fun class to play. I switch my arcanist to a wizard at 18th level and the Arcanist was more versatile then the wizard but other then that the wizard stood up just fine.

Liberty's Edge

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Arcanists have quite a few less spells than a specialist Wizard, and every level of spells one level later as well. That's enough to keep Wizards relevant right there.

Sorcerers might be in trouble, though. We'll need to wait for the final version and see.


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Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I think some folks here might be reading a bit much into a relatively short preview. The class is good, but its not quite as powerful as some are making it out to be.

Lets just take the rhetoric down a notch.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

I think they're reading the perfect degree into it given the context, which is that the class was already extremely powerful in the second playtest and has received even greater boosts in power.

Given that you haven't shied away from revealing nerfs to classes you perceived as too powerful before (the Warpriest), the fact that none are noted here makes people understandably wary.

Honestly unless you've added some sort of crippling weakness we could not have foreseen (he is now only a 6th level caster, or only gets 1 spell per day, for example) this class will be pretty OP no matter how you slice it.

A Wizard is already borderline at best. A Wizard with other class features on top, including class features which are like Wizard class features but better (Quick Study >>>>>>> Fast Study) isn't arguable.

Not saying that's what it IS necessarily, but that is the impression given.

brad2411 wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Fast Study in the prd.
I don't see how that is the equivalent.

Fast study does not use any class "points", where as quick study does so it is possible that fast study can get more useful but you have to prep for it to be more useful. But quick study is spontaneous which can make it better.

I have played the 2nd playtest Arcanist in Wotr and yes they can be more powerful then wizards but they are still a fun class to play. I switch my arcanist to a wizard at 18th level and the Arcanist was more versatile then the wizard but other then that the wizard stood up just fine.

Saying it is more versatile than the Wizard (currently the most versatile class in the game, and as a result the most powerful) is hardly reassuring.


I love the sound of it.

I kinda hope there is a way to drop spells in leiu of points, so it might be possible to play one who is focused on the exploits that deal damage. That idea is just so cool for me. Prepare utility or something and just stick with my Su/SLA damage things (as they sound buffed a little) Was always the favorite style in any game I play..

Depending on how the blade archetype works. I could play a blade user with some cool lil effects. I'd totally be open to basically never using my spells and just swording and those weird class ability damage effects.
Otherwise I'm kinda seeing it as maybe a combo of blackblade and arcane gunner(that wizard archetype). whichcould be fun.

As for power levels and such, don't know, don't care too much. Maybe it'll upset some PFS but in any other case it's easy enough to tone down or disallow as one would wish. I'm not seeing a terribly huge problem with how the games i've been are run.

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Rynjin wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Fast Study in the prd.
I don't see how that is the equivalent.

Fast study does not use any class "points", where as quick study does so it is possible that fast study can get more useful but you have to prep for it to be more useful. But quick study is spontaneous which can make it better.

I have played the 2nd playtest Arcanist in Wotr and yes they can be more powerful then wizards but they are still a fun class to play. I switch my arcanist to a wizard at 18th level and the Arcanist was more versatile then the wizard but other then that the wizard stood up just fine.

Saying it is more versatile than the Wizard (currently the most versatile...

I was trying to say that both abilities are conditional so one can be more useful then the other depending on the situations

Sovereign Court

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I'm really excited for the arcanist. The class seems super cool, but if it's not your speed, don't include it in your games. As far as PFS play goes, I'm sure this'll go the way of the Synthesist and gunslinger shenanigans.

I'm personally thrilled at seeing how the "magical hacker" comes into play. In a way, I'm kind of hoping it's super strong because of how it'll fit into my given campaign.

Are arcanists lost casters from an ancient civilization, marking a time when magic in the blood was just as prevalent as magic in tomes? Are they a new phenomenon? How the arcanist fits into your world is kind of your own decision. This class is going to be awesome no matter which side of the table you're on.


Adam B. 135 wrote:
Can you share just a little bit more. I want to know how this class had its balance increased. What big change occurred to make this somehow not overpowered?

August's just around the corner. Then all your questions shall be answered.

Zwordsman wrote:
I kinda hope there is a way to drop spells in leiu of points, so it might be possible to play one who is focused on the exploits that deal damage.

Arcanists can burn their own spells in order to fill up their arcane reservoir, so that might be the sort of thing you're looking for.


Cthulhudrew wrote:


Zwordsman wrote:
I kinda hope there is a way to drop spells in leiu of points, so it might be possible to play one who is focused on the exploits that deal damage.
Arcanists can burn their own spells in order to fill up their arcane reservoir, so that might be the sort of thing you're looking for.

Oh. I totally missed that when reading it... I'm totally going to look into that now.

Or perhaps a white mage healy type who uses those elemental shots..


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If this thing shares the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list, then it has the potential to be a problem. I can see two fixes that would help somewhat, however.

1 - Split Spellcasting between Intelligence and Charisma. Tie Save DC's to one, bonus spells known to the other. So you can either have extra spells OR good DC's, but not both too easily.

2 - Don't give it the Wizard/Sorcerer spelllist. The Witch is not as potent as the Wizard, despite much stronger class features, due to a poorer spell list. The Arcanist could do with something similar.

End of the day, we'll cope somehow. But atombomb powerful spell-casters are pretty much what Pathfinder is based on. Having a new flavour won't change things much for most of the classes - they'll just have a new Lord and Master to bow to.


Arcanist, also known as the Silver Bullet. YMMV.


I really dont see anyone use quick study in the middle of combat, so it is mostly a nonfactor. That suffering knowledge ability can be nice though depending on what the spell is.

Of course I am sure the arguments of whether or not you can use it if you are immune to it will pop up.


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wraithstrike wrote:
I really dont see anyone use quick study in the middle of combat, so it is mostly a nonfactor.

Casters are directly proportional to their ability to scout the enemy and how quickly and effectively they can utilize that knowledge. A Wizard requires an entire minute burning buff time and must have an unslotted spell. An Arcanist is 10 times faster and simply swaps out one of his set spells Known.

Would it be used in combat? Unlikely. Used when your party scout peeks around the corner and tells you theres three [insert creature that is absolutely devastated by having a specific spell on hand]? Absolutely.

With good scouting, the Arcanist has a silver bullet for each encounter rather quickly through Quick Study.

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