Overlord 2, the Other Guild

Game Master BloodWolven

Just waiting on you Wolf.

Should be entertaining on how this meet up will go. Ink may switch to His priest form and 'subdue' the monsterous invaders using the power of Bratva!

Question: With true sight, will Thorin see Ink as anything different? I'm really not certain...if the changes are purely physical then I don't think true sight will do anything. If there is any magic or illusion involved, then it will?

I think that Ink's class abilities don't count as illusions and thus true sight won't work, but it's important to find out before it comes up.

Question: With true sight, will Thorin see Ink as anything different? I'm really not certain...if the changes are purely physical then I don't think true sight will do anything. If there is any magic or illusion involved, then it will?

It depends how your true sight is worded. For instance if it was worded like the true seeing spell:

This would be able to see through ink’s ooze morph assume humanoid form which functions as alter self. As seen here

A number of times per day equal to half her level (minimum 1), an oozemorph can assume a humanoid form as a move action. This transformation is identical to alter self, except the oozemorph can maintain the form for a number of hours equal to her level. Each hour after this duration, the oozemorph must succeed at a DC 15 Fortitude save or revert back to her fluidic body until she rests for at least 8 hours. This save DC increases by 1 for each additional hour spent maintaining the form.

However, because ink is also a vigilante, he can also use its class features to further diguise his form mundanely, using the disguise skill check. You wouldn’t be able to see through that with true sight

Realistically, once you see that he is under some polymorphic effect you probably would make some assumptions about him

TLDR: you probably notice he is under some polymorphic effect and isn’t human but his “true form” you see looks weird because he can probably alter that mundanely through his vigilante features

Pretty much, He is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum, with an air of mystery

Pretty much, He is an enigma wrapped in a conundrum, with an air of mystery

Btw ink, I think your hp is wrong, i am 90% sure you are supposed to have more than 15hp. Like bare minimum with just your con you should have 7+42=49 hp if you rolled a 1 on all your hit dice

Ink, what do you think makes for the better story? Would it be more interesting for Thorin, with his ability to see things as they truly are, to look at Ink and see his true, oozemorphic form beneath the disguise? Or would it be better if Thorin only saw whatever humanoid shape Ink had polymorphed into?

I could definitely see some fun in the former. It would probably be a pretty unique interaction for Ink to have someone who actually sees him. I could imagine Ink walking around as a preacher, only to see the strange fluid creature beneath.

At the same time, if you'd prefer for Ink to remain an enigma, unreadable even by magical sight, I’m totally on board with that too. Just let me know which direction feels more fun to you.

Ink, what do you think makes for the better story? Would it be more interesting for Thorin, with his ability to see things as they truly are, to look at Ink and see his true, oozemorphic form beneath the disguise? Or would it be better if Thorin only saw whatever humanoid shape Ink had polymorphed into?

I could definitely see some fun in the former. It would probably be a pretty unique interaction for Ink to have someone who actually sees him. I could imagine Ink walking around as a preacher, only to see the strange fluid creature beneath.

At the same time, if you'd prefer for Ink to remain an enigma, unreadable even by magical sight, I’m totally on board with that too. Just let me know which direction feels more fun to you.

Pretty sure you could just go and meet in the middle and say you notice an entity under a polymorphic effect but his true form is indistinguishable due to his disguise.

Considering your true sight is a superpower and inks disguise is coming from synergistic class features, you should be able to tell something is wrong with his appearance. Also it probably makes life easier for the GM if in the future he needs to challenge us for the story. He could have a character with both true sight and expert perception be able to see through ink rather than having to homebrew another ability

The reason I would rather that is so we don’t fall into the same issues as the overlord anime where the entire thing feels kind of boring after like 3 seasons because you subconsciously know aniz can never lose. If inks disguise can never be seen through it be as low stakes as me killing every enemy I meet with none being able to survive one hit.

Sure that would be fun for a while but you know I kind of want somewhat of a challenge eventually

Yeah my HP is weird.

Also have No One of Consequence, giving me permannet Nondetection spell and nobody remembers what I look like.

Also my Telepathy will be shock.

Though you will also if you learn of me know my Infamy in Yggdrasil. Which was destorying the Black Raven Guild from within

Yeah my HP is weird.

Also have No One of Consequence, giving me permannet Nondetection spell and nobody remembers what I look like.

Also my Telepathy will be shock.

Though you will also if you learn of me know my Infamy in Yggdrasil. Which was destorying the Black Raven Guild from within

Wait you actually have 15 hp? Is it like the 5e Druid wildshape hp where it refreshes every time you change form? Because if not that’s kind of dangerous since like a bomb could go off and kill you. Unless you have regen?

Ink, what do you think makes for the better story? Would it be more interesting for Thorin, with his ability to see things as they truly are, to look at Ink and see his true, oozemorphic form beneath the disguise? Or would it be better if Thorin only saw whatever humanoid shape Ink had polymorphed into?

I could definitely see some fun in the former. It would probably be a pretty unique interaction for Ink to have someone who actually sees him. I could imagine Ink walking around as a preacher, only to see the strange fluid creature beneath.

At the same time, if you'd prefer for Ink to remain an enigma, unreadable even by magical sight, I’m totally on board with that too. Just let me know which direction feels more fun to you.

Btw ink has a +40 in disguise so I don’t think he would even need his alter self to fool anyone. When you true sight him he could probably make his ooze form look like a puddle, a pole or something else weird so it’s probably more confusing and a more compelling mystery if your true sight works an intended if you want a story reason

Side note: pretty sure you can’t since your perception is a +18. Ink could roll a 1 on purpose and you wouldn’t be able to see through his disguise if he uses his vigilante disguise feature even on a 20 with how skill checks work

No One of Consequence (Ex)
Your mythic nature is a cloak that can shield you from the minds and memories of others. Creatures struggle to recognize you, recall your appearance, remember the nature of conversations they had with you, and recount the actions you took when you were in their presence. If a creature makes a deliberate attempt to recall details about time spent with you, it must succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + your tier + your Charisma modifier) to recall anything beyond vague details. In addition, you’re under a permanent nondetection effect with a caster level equal to your character level plus your tier. You can end this effect at any time, and can resume it as a swift action.

10+1+5= DC 16. Given that Thorin has +15 will saves, I don't think that "no one of consequences" will affect him.

I'll take a step back and await for word as to how out abilities interact. Be it seeing through completely to the real Ink, having no clue, or as Rargh suggested a middle ground where he can see a polymorph effect has taken place but not through it.

But yeah eventually someone will have to discover his true identity, though eventually for allies he will reveal it. Unless told otherwise

Thorin Spellsplitter wrote:

Ink, what do you think makes for the better story? Would it be more interesting for Thorin, with his ability to see things as they truly are, to look at Ink and see his true, oozemorphic form beneath the disguise? Or would it be better if Thorin only saw whatever humanoid shape Ink had polymorphed into?

I could definitely see some fun in the former. It would probably be a pretty unique interaction for Ink to have someone who actually sees him. I could imagine Ink walking around as a preacher, only to see the strange fluid creature beneath.

At the same time, if you'd prefer for Ink to remain an enigma, unreadable even by magical sight, I’m totally on board with that too. Just let me know which direction feels more fun to you.

Btw ink has a +40 in disguise so I don’t think he would even need his alter self to fool anyone. When you true sight him he could probably make his ooze form look like a puddle, a pole or something else weird so it’s probably more confusing and a more compelling mystery if your true sight works an intended if you want a story reason

Side note: pretty sure you can’t since your perception is a +18. Ink could roll a 1 on purpose and you wouldn’t be able to see through his disguise if he uses his vigilante disguise feature even on a 20 with how skill checks work

My favorite is he is Ink=Infused, I literally can make myself look like Graffetti, Art and 2d painting or script on a surface!

My favorite is he is Ink=Infused, I literally can make myself look like Graffetti, Art and 2d painting or script on a surface!

That’s what I am saying. It would be so much cooler if thorin uses true sight and sees a sentient work of art, a talking puddle or any other weird form of liquid ink could disguise himself as! That leave the door open for way more questions that would be interesting imo

Yep, and I do have to fix my HP

With another look, true seeing seemingly would see through the disguise in some way. The detect magic would note any magical aspect, but I can't seem to find any ability of Thorin's that identifies the magic. Thorin appears to have neither Spellcraft nor Knowledge Arcana. Am I missing something?

Rune-Bound Perception (Su)
Prerequisite: Wearing armor etched with Thorin’s runes.
Effect: While wearing rune-etched armor or gauntlets, Thorin gains constant True Sight and Detect Magic.
Flavor: The runes hum softly with the truths of the world. Glamours, enchantments, and false forms cannot deceive his gaze: to the Runecrafter, all things are as they were truly forged.

——-

Mechanical interpretation left up to GM.whatever is best for the story

With another look, true seeing seemingly would see through the disguise in some way. The detect magic would note any magical aspect, but I can't seem to find any ability of Thorin's that identifies the magic. Thorin appears to have neither Spellcraft nor Knowledge Arcana. Am I missing something?

True sight(as per true seeing spell) automatically see through any transmutation, illusion or polymorph effect. Therefore he will see through the humanoid form assumed via ink’s ooze morph class feature as that form is treated as alter self(a transmutation (polymorph)) spell.

However, ink can disguise his true ooze form as something else weird or inconspicuous like street graffiti, a talking puddle etc as his vilgilante class features give him a massive disguise skill check bonus. Disguise is considered non magical so thorin would have to beat inks disguise check to see his true ooze form.

So essentially, when thorin sees ink in a humanoid form, he will use his true sight, then the humanoid form will fade and he will see whatever ink chooses to disguise his ooze form as(like graffiti for example). He won’t get to see inks true ooze form in a non disguised state since his perception is too low but he will see through the humanoid form.

Assuming he knows how his true sight works (which he probably should), from the above he would be able to deduce the humanoid shape was probably some transmutation or illusion magic. And probably then be confused why this things “true form” is [insert inks clever disguise]. He wouldn’t actually need detect magic since he should be able to deduce the type of magic from how his true sight works

I should note the only reason I would argue it this way is because ink is an ooze, so because he is an ooze, disguising himself would be far easier and far quicker than disguising a normal human. So it’s reasonable he can attempt a disguise check as he is noticing someone is trying to see through his humanoid shape. If it were a human, I would argue he wouldn’t have enough time to attempt a disguise check but he is essentially slimey ink so he probably would have enough time to do so

Basically I assume ink as a smart shape shifting creature uses this particular advice when it comes to disguising themselves

Saw Through the Illusion: It is very tempting to use illusion or transmutation magic to augment a disguise, since the bonus is so high. As per the Core Rulebook, magic that penetrates an illusion or transmutation doesn’t automatically see through a mundane disguise, but it negates the magical components of the costume. Thus, a true master of disguise uses both types of trickery, and she also ensures that the person who notices her use of magic has a way to explain the fact that disguise magic was involved at all. For instance, a rogue might disguise herself as a noble with mundane means and then use disguise self to cloak herself in a glamer of that same noble, but more beautiful. Then, if someone sees through the illusion but not the mundane disguise, he would just think she was a vain noble instead of becoming suspicious due to the use of illusion magic and demanding a more thorough inspection.

Thus ink would use both his very high disguise check and his alter self humanoid form as a disguise. When thorin sees through the magic with true sight, he still has to completely beat a +40 check, which he can’t without buffing or something, and so he would see whatever mundane disguise ink is using at the time(like the graffiti suggestion ink made)

So Rarargh are you with the Fireball assualt

So Rarargh are you with the Fireball assualt

Yeah, it’s me, Skarbrund and Kislum

Ink, is the telepathy 2 way, ie can I talk back through my thoughts?

Yes its 2 way

Ink you might want to tell the other two your plan first plus pretty sure most of the guards are dead, I fireballed most of them, the archers had to survive a fall from the tower and the one I am holding just took 5 con damage and 2 negative levels so he most certainly dead.

I said I would use my domination gaze on the remaining archers so they are probably also under my control so you are likely performing to no one right now. I say likely since GM hasn’t rolled their saves yet and hasn’t rule if anyone is still alive after my fireball and RARGHG’s attack on the tower

Question: With true sight, will Thorin see Ink as anything different? I'm really not certain...if the changes are purely physical then I don't think true sight will do anything. If there is any magic or illusion involved, then it will?

I think that Ink's class abilities don't count as illusions and thus true sight won't work, but it's important to find out before it comes up.

You guys got this covered. You decide how you want to play it or ask me to make a call.

----

Yes the fireball would have killed anyone within its radius.
If anyone was still alive they would have fled. So the only audience would be those frozen in fear within the buildings and shelter.

Its wild. At lvl 7 I have +18 sense motive, but by RAW Thorin will likely never know when another PC is lying because of the discrepancy in bluff to sense motive modifiers. Well...unless a lie is impossible. Then it is a 50/50 chance of whether he will believe it.

Would you prefer to handle Desseer's lies a different way? I'm certainly open to thoughts.

No…just…as a courtesy don’t take too much of an advantage of it?

“Hey…did you know that your npc followers who mean the world to you are actually dopplegangers? Don’t worry, I’ll kill them for you, because I’m so nice.” <nat 20 bluff that even with -20 for impossibility that I can’t possibly reach>

I see, yes. I will not do that. I'm not overly fond of such tactics in general, but playing a character that would interact with the world and others in a way that takes advantage of things on such a mechanical level could bring me there at some point. In the future, if I think that my tactics would negatively affect another player to any significant degree, I'll check with said player. I view this as cooperative story telling with an emphasis on cooperative.

Are we at the safe house yet

I would assume that his post as John is in response to you all arriving at the safe house.

This should be fun the three Guild members meeting our NPC supplicant

Just want to say...it is so much fun having this scene with Hrothgarn and Desseer.

Two comrades ride into town, feeling confident in their own abilities. And knowing that whatever comes their way that they have each other's backs. But what they face is something that no force of arms can overcome.

It really has this feel of being in the presence of something mythical. A fiendish elf, flying overhead. Every word sounding like nothing but the truth. He lies to you? Completely believable. He then says that the last thing was a lie? Again, it sounds like nothing but the truth. There is an almost cosmic horror to it, which is only amplified by his game-show host type friendliness. I've been gaming for years, and I have to say that this type of scene is quite a new experience. And one that I am enjoying.

Sincerely, thank you. I appreciate it.

Ink is gonna hate them...He is a Former Bratva Member

Bratva?

Russian Mob, it Means Brotherhood. Inks Player was a Soldier of the Bratva

Oh. Alright. And because of that he wouldn’t like the dwarf and giant?

More thery wont like him once they figure him out

Sincerely, thank you. I appreciate it.

Truly one of the most enjoyable roleplay interactions I have had in a while. Thanks for calling out the forge references, I was waiting to see how long before someone said something!

More thery wont like him once they figure him out

Meh, I think Hrothgarn wont care too much about the RW persona, he was always more interested in the game than real life anyways. He isn't above militaristic action. he's just not into wanton slaughter of innocents. He is neutral aligned so as long as his personal line isn't crossed he is pretty amenable to most things.

Well done with the consistency on successfully getting them in and them solidly fitting.

Yeah Ink doesn't considered murder bad, just a tool like any other. In fact His In game Acheivements are Two-Faced, Betrayer, Friendslayer,Killer

He has other Titles: Writer of Legends, Spreader of Stories,Storied Traveller, Wanderer,Far Traveler, Slime Friend, Many-Faced, Every Man

Plus Like I said he does claim the Black Raven Guild Massacre which caused the Dissolution of the Guild, due to his pillaging and murdering of the Guild, and was not ordered to do anything more than gather information.

However he will honor the pact though if it harms him, his goals or the guilds he will not hesitate in killing a person in cold blood,.

I am glad everyone is getting along! :)

Sorry if it seems weird that I have been quiet I am not really sure what RARGHG would do at the moment because she mainly came her just to look for the others and fight, so she would probably just be waiting for more familiar faces to come before she talks more

Can I ask what’s going on with the bluff situation? The modifier for an impossible bluff for desseer should be +6(+26) right? Because impossible bluff would be -20 modifier. So thorin should have a pretty good chance to tell with a +18 sense motive for . Even if it’s a full mod, it is an 8 point difference, meaning it’s still possible though unlikely since desseer will have to roll low and thorin has to roll high.

It’s pretty scuffed but I wouldn’t really say eldritch horror level imo. And don’t worry kislum’s whole deal is she prefers mind affecting spells to skill checks. She will only use bluff check if her powers either don’t work or might not work, like convincing people to let her in to their house which her weaknesses prevent her from doing with powers

What a week. Sorry guys. I'll catch up asap

Kislum, it is a comment derived from the in-game character's perspective, not the raw mechanics alone.

I'm going to try to post Desseer's arrival to the safe house a little later today.

I want Desseer to cause chaos! Mind control and free the people's of Cinder from Tyranny. To that end release the Kraken!!!

Does this qualify as accomplishing said request?